Alan & Brenda Leonard

> I always worry I am not offering enough. Especially since
> they play with action figures all day and pretty much engage in
> imaginative play ALL day.

At this age, Olga, I don't see that necessarily as a bad thing! Do you play
with them sometimes, getting down on the floor and all? Do they play
outside now that the weather is getting nicer? Do they have friends who
join in their play sometimes and bring fresh ideas?

> There is no art work, sometimes blocks,
> but it is all in their heads. So some days I worry it is enough?

Do you have art supplies around, available to them? Do you make suggestions
occasionally when they're between activities? Do you start painting or
whatever yourself and see if it interests them enough that they come take
over? Would they like to fingerpaint the bathtub before their bath? Do you
dye eggs, cut toast in funny shapes (use cookie cutters), decorate cakes or
cupcakes, use spray cheese to draw on bread or crackers?

> How is the reading and math going to come in <s>?

Do you read to them, take the to the library and bring home stacks of books
(even if they're ones you chose) and leave them all over the place? Do
*you* read? Do you laugh out loud at the Sunday funnies? That got my son
interested in them. Would it make you feel better to turn on the closed
captioning on the TV or on a movie sometimes? Do you read little bits out
loud to your husband off your emails, or comment aloud to your kids about
something fun someone else did that maybe they'd enjoy? Do you play games
in the car, counting how many stop signs to the grocery, the mall, etc.?

Do they like to help you cook? Have they seen you balance the checkbook?
Does the older one know what a calculator is, and do you have one he can
play with? Do they grocery shop with you, and do you discuss how much
something costs (oooh, look, our favorite cereal is on sale for a whole
dollar off!) Do you talk to yourself while you figure things out (hmmmm,
Susie said it was two miles to her house, and we've gone one now, so I guess
this can't be the street I need to turn on, it would be one more mile yet
down the road....)? Does your older child get an allowance that he can
spend or save as he chooses? Would he like helping you clip coupons; maybe
he could add up the money saved and he could have it.

Do you measure things occasionally, like talking out loud about how many
inches the window is so you need to get a curtain a couple inches longer?
When they ask for something when you're shopping, do you discuss how much it
costs and whether it might fit your family budget this month? Do you go to
thrift shops and have fun seeing what you can buy for a dollar? Do you walk
around Wal Mart (or expensive department stores) and laugh at the things
you'd never want and how much money you save by not buying these silly
things?

>Some days we do
> more than others.

Us too. I try for a balance. When I feel like I'm being a
stick-in-the-mud, I start looking at when we last went someplace really fun
like the swimming pool with big water slide, the zoo, the toy store to look
at the new legos, etc. Sometimes we just have a picnic so I feel like I've
gotten out. But we do that maybe once a week or so. You don't have to be
an entertainment service, either. If they were unhappy playing lots of
imagination play, you'd surely hear about it!

Finally, one of my unschooling "duh" moments came when I realized that my
son spends a lot of time "just hanging around" because he HAS a lot of time
to just hang around. If he went to school, he'd spend a lot of time "just
sitting around" waiting for a teacher, the other kids, etc. I figure he's
better off hanging around my house than a classroom. Kids are pretty good
at letting us know when they need more going on.

Relax, enjoy, and talk to yourself more! <g>

brenda

Olga

Brenda,

Thank you so much for your great ideas. No, I don't think I do
enough of those things. We do a number of them but I am trying to
add more into our daily lives. Keiran has never been very interested
in art so sometimes I offer but he always turns me down. Maybe, I
need to rethink how to introduce different things to him to see if I
could get his interest. Sometimes, he needs a little push. Like
this morning, I offered to let him listen to a book on tape we got
from the library. Of course, his response was no. I put it on
anyway while he played and said we would try it for a while. One
minute later, "I don't like it". SO I said a little longer, went
back in 20 minutes later and he was laughing and enjoying it. He
plays with his action figures while its on so it does not stop his
play, but I am hoping to instill an interst in literature. I figure
there is no better way to learn to read then to have an interest in
books. We do read all the time so I know that will come. His
attitude with the book is sometimes how he is with alot of things.
He shows little interest but once we get going he really has a great
time. So I am working on that balance with him, to give a little
shove without pushing what I think his interests should be on him.

Olga :)

--- In [email protected], Alan & Brenda Leonard
<abtleo@e...> wrote:
> > I always worry I am not offering enough. Especially since
> > they play with action figures all day and pretty much engage in
> > imaginative play ALL day.
>
> At this age, Olga, I don't see that necessarily as a bad thing! Do
you play
> with them sometimes, getting down on the floor and all? Do they
play
> outside now that the weather is getting nicer? Do they have
friends who
> join in their play sometimes and bring fresh ideas?
>
> > There is no art work, sometimes blocks,
> > but it is all in their heads. So some days I worry it is enough?
>
> Do you have art supplies around, available to them? Do you make
suggestions
> occasionally when they're between activities? Do you start
painting or
> whatever yourself and see if it interests them enough that they
come take
> over? Would they like to fingerpaint the bathtub before their
bath? Do you
> dye eggs, cut toast in funny shapes (use cookie cutters), decorate
cakes or
> cupcakes, use spray cheese to draw on bread or crackers?
>
> > How is the reading and math going to come in <s>?
>
> Do you read to them, take the to the library and bring home stacks
of books
> (even if they're ones you chose) and leave them all over the
place? Do
> *you* read? Do you laugh out loud at the Sunday funnies? That got
my son
> interested in them. Would it make you feel better to turn on the
closed
> captioning on the TV or on a movie sometimes? Do you read little
bits out
> loud to your husband off your emails, or comment aloud to your kids
about
> something fun someone else did that maybe they'd enjoy? Do you
play games
> in the car, counting how many stop signs to the grocery, the mall,
etc.?
>
> Do they like to help you cook? Have they seen you balance the
checkbook?
> Does the older one know what a calculator is, and do you have one
he can
> play with? Do they grocery shop with you, and do you discuss how
much
> something costs (oooh, look, our favorite cereal is on sale for a
whole
> dollar off!) Do you talk to yourself while you figure things out
(hmmmm,
> Susie said it was two miles to her house, and we've gone one now,
so I guess
> this can't be the street I need to turn on, it would be one more
mile yet
> down the road....)? Does your older child get an allowance that he
can
> spend or save as he chooses? Would he like helping you clip
coupons; maybe
> he could add up the money saved and he could have it.
>
> Do you measure things occasionally, like talking out loud about how
many
> inches the window is so you need to get a curtain a couple inches
longer?
> When they ask for something when you're shopping, do you discuss
how much it
> costs and whether it might fit your family budget this month? Do
you go to
> thrift shops and have fun seeing what you can buy for a dollar? Do
you walk
> around Wal Mart (or expensive department stores) and laugh at the
things
> you'd never want and how much money you save by not buying these
silly
> things?
>
> >Some days we do
> > more than others.
>
> Us too. I try for a balance. When I feel like I'm being a
> stick-in-the-mud, I start looking at when we last went someplace
really fun
> like the swimming pool with big water slide, the zoo, the toy store
to look
> at the new legos, etc. Sometimes we just have a picnic so I feel
like I've
> gotten out. But we do that maybe once a week or so. You don't
have to be
> an entertainment service, either. If they were unhappy playing
lots of
> imagination play, you'd surely hear about it!
>
> Finally, one of my unschooling "duh" moments came when I realized
that my
> son spends a lot of time "just hanging around" because he HAS a lot
of time
> to just hang around. If he went to school, he'd spend a lot of
time "just
> sitting around" waiting for a teacher, the other kids, etc. I
figure he's
> better off hanging around my house than a classroom. Kids are
pretty good
> at letting us know when they need more going on.
>
> Relax, enjoy, and talk to yourself more! <g>
>
> brenda

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/4/03 10:42:42 AM, britcontoo@... writes:

<< One

minute later, "I don't like it". SO I said a little longer, >>

Maybe you could have said "You don't have to listen to it. I want to listen,
though."

That way it's not something you did for/to him, just something you did.
Neutral-like. In the air.

<< Keiran has never been very interested

in art so sometimes I offer but he always turns me down. Maybe, I

need to rethink how to introduce different things to him to see if I

could get his interest. Sometimes, he needs a little push. >>

Instead of "introducing different things," why not just get different things
or do different things. Why does he have to be the target and you the
"shootist"?

There are things my kids love that nobody noticed the first month or year
they were in the house. I just cycled through things until one day one would
spark an interest. A few never did. Some were so great we bought a second
thing/set or replaced it as soon as it broke.

Lots of these whatever-things (games, toys, art supplies, books, computer
programs, yard toys, oddities) were used, from thrift stores or garage sales.
Some were new from dollar stores. Some were new from top-price educational
supply houses. It didn't make any difference as to their appeal or value.

<<but I am hoping to instill an interst in literature>>

See? It wasn't my imagination. You're seeing him as a vessel and you want
to INSTALL something. "Instill" you said, but it did sound like you had put an
installation on your mental checklist. <g>

<< So I am working on that balance with him, to give a little

shove without pushing what I think his interests should be on him.

>>

A little shove IS pushing. Literally. And "shove" is bigger than "push."

Sandra

Sandra

Kelli Traaseth

----- Original Message -----
From: Olga

**Maybe, I
need to rethink how to introduce different things to him to see if I
could get his interest.**

What about going with what he is interested in.

This sounds alot like my son. He has never had a whole lot of time for arts and crafts. For example, like when he was in preschool, "here kids, lets paint" well, Alec would slap some paint on there and he'd be done. He'd be off to the sand box. (Creating something there, situations, events; but some wouldn't consider that art.)

I've learned to stop introducing things that I think he should be doing. Now I try to find things that add to what he is doing. Like right now he loves video games so we went out and got a game link for his gameboy. Game links are great because you can transfer info from one game to another. Like info from Ruby version to Sapphire. I even think that's cool.

I guess I also look at it like no one forces me to work on my car. It would maybe make me more of a *rounded* individual, learning more mechanical things, but I really don't want to! Or I don't try and convince my husband to help me plant things. He doesn't enjoy it.

I want to feed my kids interests, nurture them. If I start putting certain guidelines or required subjects on them, they might as well be in school. We can leave those subjects and requirements behind!

I think the more we push on our children what we think they should be doing; the farther they grow away from what their true passions are. They will forget their true selves and lose that innate drive of what makes them happy.

Kelli~





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

We had a shed with the first layer of stucco on but not the final, and I use
to mix up powdered tempera and let them paint on the wall with fat
kid-brushes.

At the house we're in now, there's a cinderblock wall out back and Holly and
a younger friend and I painted on that and on our old van (dead engine) with
water colors and tempera.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

Okay, Good point. Definitely still seeing him as that vessel. I
actually have backed off so much lately that there are moments I am
scared. But you are right, I keep thinking it is my job to help him
love books and reading. Fact is he enjoys it on his own, although he
did get into the book on tape for a while and wants to listen to the
rest when he goes to bed. We will see if that holds up tonight <g>,
he will probably say no and make a liar out of me ..LOL!

> <<but I am hoping to instill an interst in literature>>
>
> See? It wasn't my imagination. You're seeing him as a vessel and
you want
> to INSTALL something. "Instill" you said, but it did sound like
you had put an
> installation on your mental checklist. <g>
>
> << So I am working on that balance with him, to give a little
>
> shove without pushing what I think his interests should be on him.
>
> >>
>
> A little shove IS pushing. Literally. And "shove" is bigger
than "push."
>
> Sandra
>
> Sandra

Olga

Kelli,

Thanks for this response. We have been trying to let him do his own
thing and you are right I need to go with the flow of his interests.
Obviously, I am still caught in that idea of well-rounded knowledge
which I know is bull but subconsciously it is peeking in. Great
post. Thanks

Olga

--- In [email protected], "Kelli Traaseth"
<tktraas@p...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Olga
>
> **Maybe, I
> need to rethink how to introduce different things to him to see
if I
> could get his interest.**
>
> What about going with what he is interested in.
>
> This sounds alot like my son. He has never had a whole lot of
time for arts and crafts. For example, like when he was in
preschool, "here kids, lets paint" well, Alec would slap some
paint on there and he'd be done. He'd be off to the sand box.
(Creating something there, situations, events; but some wouldn't
consider that art.)
>
> I've learned to stop introducing things that I think he should be
doing. Now I try to find things that add to what he is doing. Like
right now he loves video games so we went out and got a game link for
his gameboy. Game links are great because you can transfer info
from one game to another. Like info from Ruby version to Sapphire.
I even think that's cool.
>
> I guess I also look at it like no one forces me to work on my
car. It would maybe make me more of a *rounded* individual, learning
more mechanical things, but I really don't want to! Or I don't try
and convince my husband to help me plant things. He doesn't enjoy
it.
>
> I want to feed my kids interests, nurture them. If I start
putting certain guidelines or required subjects on them, they might
as well be in school. We can leave those subjects and requirements
behind!
>
> I think the more we push on our children what we think they
should be doing; the farther they grow away from what their true
passions are. They will forget their true selves and lose that
innate drive of what makes them happy.
>
> Kelli~
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/4/2003 4:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
britcontoo@... writes:

> Okay, Good point. Definitely still seeing him as that vessel. I
> actually have backed off so much lately that there are moments I am
> scared. But you are right, I keep thinking it is my job to help him
> love books and reading. Fact is he enjoys it on his own, although he
> did get into the book on tape for a while and wants to listen to the
> rest when he goes to bed. We will see if that holds up tonight <g>,
> he will probably say no and make a liar out of me ..LOL!

I wouldn't ask him, If it looks like you want him to he may not. Can he run
it him self?
Can you have the tapes/CD's where he can get them and do it himself?

Laura D


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: "Alan & Brenda Leonard" <abtleo@...>

<<At this age, Olga, I don't see that necessarily as a bad thing! Do you
play
with them sometimes, getting down on the floor and all? Do they play
outside now that the weather is getting nicer? Do they have friends who
join in their play sometimes and bring fresh ideas?>>


My kids do a lot of play inside with their toys. I'm also very fortunate
that they have each other and get along as they do. Plus we get together
with other kids once a week. When it's not summer, it's twice a week
generally. Some times more often than that but not usually less unless
someone is sick. They also have the backyard with swing set, sandbox and
pool. We take walks arounf the neighborhood or just go to the park
ourselves. My kids always find someone else to play with. I'm also lucky
that pretty much all year round my kids can out and play if they want.




<< Do you have art supplies around, available to them>>


I'm not realy crafty at all. But I keep one whole cupboard full of creative
things for the kids. They can get to it themselves. We have a felt board
with all kinds of felt objects I made for them. Playdough, paper, markers,
pencils, crayons, paints, yarn, pipecleaners, glues, scissors, fake eyes,
pom poms, stencils and I'm sure more. Being that it's right there for them
to use, they often do all sorts of things without me suggesting anything. If
I come across something on the net, or like at holiday times I'll go
searching for cute little things to make, I'll ask and see if the want to do
it. I must admit that last Christmas I had a wonderful time with the kids
watching them make snowdomes and ornaments of all kinds. I even joined in
and made some of my own. Not bad for a craft handicapped person!


Mary B

[email protected]

britcontoo@... writes:

<< I
actually have backed off so much lately that there are moments I am
scared. >>

Identify what you are scared of. Sometimes I get wierd anxious moments, and
you know what it turns out to be *every time*? Someone else's fear, or
anxiety, NOT mine.

Can't say that will be true of you as well, but it could very well be.

~Aimee