Raising kids "right"
Have A Nice Day!
We had a great time at Girl Scout Camp this weekend, but I'll tell yah...sometimes it takes everything in me to bite my toungue when we have helpers who are schoolteachers!!!!! LOL.
One of the moms teaches school, and she was a big help and she's a wonderful woman...but her approach toward difficult childhood situations is very different from mine <grin>.
On the other hand, we had some nice conversations too. I guess when you unschool, you're bound to find yourself in situations like this where you have to leave your differences of opinion at the door :o). It just wasn't the time or place to take issue with things (most of the time).
At one point, the adults had a small amount of time where we just talked. We got to talking about how parents can raise their kids so they didn't have to be exposed to some things so young (like language, sex, etc).
The basic consensus was that it can't be done, and as parents, it just falls to us to help them navigate their way through whatever information they come across, and give them as much guidance as our value systems dictate.
There was one mom there who felt that she really should not have to have these kinds of converations with her kids at their ages, and I think she just basically wishes every other parent agreed with how she views things so she wouldn't have to always undo the damage she feels is being done.
(To be fair, I think we *all* feel that way about any kind of damage we feel is being done to our kids...we probably just differ on what we consider damaging)
Interestingly enough, she teaches 7th grade in public school. I was surprised at her feelings that she should not have to have these conversations with her kids at so young an age.
Also interesting was that all of these moms except me have their kids in public school :o), not that it matters, my kids are just as exposed as theirs are!!
But to REALLY put it all in perspective, I'm the only one of us four women who actually has a teenager..a teen boy no less. None of the other women have boys OR teens. Their oldest daughters are in 4th grade. I'm sure that is the biggest reason why our parenting views may differ so much. I'm dealing with an "almost adult" and already know first hand that the best I can hope for is not control, but influence.
Anyway, I'm probably the most liberal when it comes to these things, not so much because I *want* my kids exposed to so much, but because thats just the way it is and I'm striving for a two way relationship with my kids in the midst of it all.
I found a new role for myself: Assistant information processor. I help my kids process all the information they receive.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One of the moms teaches school, and she was a big help and she's a wonderful woman...but her approach toward difficult childhood situations is very different from mine <grin>.
On the other hand, we had some nice conversations too. I guess when you unschool, you're bound to find yourself in situations like this where you have to leave your differences of opinion at the door :o). It just wasn't the time or place to take issue with things (most of the time).
At one point, the adults had a small amount of time where we just talked. We got to talking about how parents can raise their kids so they didn't have to be exposed to some things so young (like language, sex, etc).
The basic consensus was that it can't be done, and as parents, it just falls to us to help them navigate their way through whatever information they come across, and give them as much guidance as our value systems dictate.
There was one mom there who felt that she really should not have to have these kinds of converations with her kids at their ages, and I think she just basically wishes every other parent agreed with how she views things so she wouldn't have to always undo the damage she feels is being done.
(To be fair, I think we *all* feel that way about any kind of damage we feel is being done to our kids...we probably just differ on what we consider damaging)
Interestingly enough, she teaches 7th grade in public school. I was surprised at her feelings that she should not have to have these conversations with her kids at so young an age.
Also interesting was that all of these moms except me have their kids in public school :o), not that it matters, my kids are just as exposed as theirs are!!
But to REALLY put it all in perspective, I'm the only one of us four women who actually has a teenager..a teen boy no less. None of the other women have boys OR teens. Their oldest daughters are in 4th grade. I'm sure that is the biggest reason why our parenting views may differ so much. I'm dealing with an "almost adult" and already know first hand that the best I can hope for is not control, but influence.
Anyway, I'm probably the most liberal when it comes to these things, not so much because I *want* my kids exposed to so much, but because thats just the way it is and I'm striving for a two way relationship with my kids in the midst of it all.
I found a new role for myself: Assistant information processor. I help my kids process all the information they receive.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/03 12:44:18 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< Anyway, I'm probably the most liberal when it comes to these things, not
so much because I *want* my kids exposed to so much, but because thats just the
way it is and I'm striving for a two way relationship with my kids in the
midst of it all. >>
If liberal is being realistic (in this situation) then what is conservative?
Seriously.
When a family shelters a child bigtime, to the point that they are basically
pretending that the way it is at their house (maybe certain language never
heard, maybe TV non-existent, maybe I don't know what else), when the kids leave
the next, aren't they going to be shocked and confused and somewhat resentful
of their parents' having created a false picture?
Or is that just going to be true even of families where they just don't force
bedtime or whatever?
New ideas. Unformed.
Sandra
<< Anyway, I'm probably the most liberal when it comes to these things, not
so much because I *want* my kids exposed to so much, but because thats just the
way it is and I'm striving for a two way relationship with my kids in the
midst of it all. >>
If liberal is being realistic (in this situation) then what is conservative?
Seriously.
When a family shelters a child bigtime, to the point that they are basically
pretending that the way it is at their house (maybe certain language never
heard, maybe TV non-existent, maybe I don't know what else), when the kids leave
the next, aren't they going to be shocked and confused and somewhat resentful
of their parents' having created a false picture?
Or is that just going to be true even of families where they just don't force
bedtime or whatever?
New ideas. Unformed.
Sandra
Have A Nice Day!
If liberal is being realistic (in this situation) then what is conservative?<<<<
good point. What I meant was that in *their* world I am the most liberal.
I agree with you whole heartedly. I could care less whether my way is "liberal" or "conservative". Its for real in the real world. And that is the only thing that will really prepare them and give them a chance at protecting themselves from what is REALLy out there (whether we want it to be or not).
Making our homes a bubble is not going to stop our kids from becoming aware of information.
I suppose the argument goes that if we wait until they are "older" then the information is better handled.
I think it depends on how it is presented, and who is helping them navigate their way through it, at *any* age.
That doesn't mean I want my kids out there practicing what they hear about. But it does mean that they know its there, and they know *I* know its there too.
Kristen
good point. What I meant was that in *their* world I am the most liberal.
I agree with you whole heartedly. I could care less whether my way is "liberal" or "conservative". Its for real in the real world. And that is the only thing that will really prepare them and give them a chance at protecting themselves from what is REALLy out there (whether we want it to be or not).
Making our homes a bubble is not going to stop our kids from becoming aware of information.
I suppose the argument goes that if we wait until they are "older" then the information is better handled.
I think it depends on how it is presented, and who is helping them navigate their way through it, at *any* age.
That doesn't mean I want my kids out there practicing what they hear about. But it does mean that they know its there, and they know *I* know its there too.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Raising kids "right"
In a message dated 6/1/03 12:44:18 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< Anyway, I'm probably the most liberal when it comes to these things, not
so much because I *want* my kids exposed to so much, but because thats just the
way it is and I'm striving for a two way relationship with my kids in the
midst of it all. >>
If liberal is being realistic (in this situation) then what is conservative?
Seriously.
When a family shelters a child bigtime, to the point that they are basically
pretending that the way it is at their house (maybe certain language never
heard, maybe TV non-existent, maybe I don't know what else), when the kids leave
the next, aren't they going to be shocked and confused and somewhat resentful
of their parents' having created a false picture?
Or is that just going to be true even of families where they just don't force
bedtime or whatever?
New ideas. Unformed.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/03 4:29:34 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< That doesn't mean I want my kids out there practicing what they hear
about. But it does mean that they know its there, and they know *I* know its there
too. >>
Maybe that's my concern. I would hate for kids to think the parents were
unaware of the greater world, or that the parents hated and feared the world.
A world where comedians say "tout le fucking monde" is much safer than a
world where one's mother and father are afraid of comedians.
Sandra
<< That doesn't mean I want my kids out there practicing what they hear
about. But it does mean that they know its there, and they know *I* know its there
too. >>
Maybe that's my concern. I would hate for kids to think the parents were
unaware of the greater world, or that the parents hated and feared the world.
A world where comedians say "tout le fucking monde" is much safer than a
world where one's mother and father are afraid of comedians.
Sandra
Backstrom kelli
this is a very difficult issue for me. On one hand, I totally believe that I should not paint a pretty unrealistic picture for my kids by weeding through everything that they read and see on TV. I let them watch tv shows and all sorts of movies. However when it comes to info I want them to know that there are all sorts of other sources out there to learn and get correct and informative facts from. For example, when I grew up my dad was a conservative republican. He watched one news program, read one newspaper and informed me of one way of thinking. He sent me to a very conservative Catholic all girls hs and taught me to be strongly pro life (or you were basically a murderer) so naturally at 18 I registered as a REpublican and voted for Bush (senior) in 1992. Anyhow, to make a long story short I entered college soon thereafter and became exposed to all sorts of new ideas and thoughts and media outlets and sources. What a joy it was to begin to have political discussions that were both from the left and the right. So today as I raise my daughters in this world of belly button peirced, high heeled ten year olds on TV on one station and wars brewing on the next station, I try to have dialogues with them about what each side is thinking. For example, what was Mr. Bush thinking when he sent our troops to war? Well, I would tell Molly that there are several ways to look at this issue and explain to her that she could listen to NPR and MSNBC and then we could talk about it, and yes, she will ask for my opinion (which is very liberal now) and I will tell her but I will also try to relay to her the importance of free speech and opinion in this country and try to engage her to formulate her own opinion. I would hate for her to grow up thinking that everything that was in the media was necessarily factually based on truth when in fact it is not. Kelli
Have A Nice Day! <litlrooh@...> wrote:If liberal is being realistic (in this situation) then what is conservative?<<<<
good point. What I meant was that in *their* world I am the most liberal.
I agree with you whole heartedly. I could care less whether my way is "liberal" or "conservative". Its for real in the real world. And that is the only thing that will really prepare them and give them a chance at protecting themselves from what is REALLy out there (whether we want it to be or not).
Making our homes a bubble is not going to stop our kids from becoming aware of information.
I suppose the argument goes that if we wait until they are "older" then the information is better handled.
I think it depends on how it is presented, and who is helping them navigate their way through it, at *any* age.
That doesn't mean I want my kids out there practicing what they hear about. But it does mean that they know its there, and they know *I* know its there too.
Kristen
Have A Nice Day! <litlrooh@...> wrote:If liberal is being realistic (in this situation) then what is conservative?<<<<
good point. What I meant was that in *their* world I am the most liberal.
I agree with you whole heartedly. I could care less whether my way is "liberal" or "conservative". Its for real in the real world. And that is the only thing that will really prepare them and give them a chance at protecting themselves from what is REALLy out there (whether we want it to be or not).
Making our homes a bubble is not going to stop our kids from becoming aware of information.
I suppose the argument goes that if we wait until they are "older" then the information is better handled.
I think it depends on how it is presented, and who is helping them navigate their way through it, at *any* age.
That doesn't mean I want my kids out there practicing what they hear about. But it does mean that they know its there, and they know *I* know its there too.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Raising kids "right"
In a message dated 6/1/03 12:44:18 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< Anyway, I'm probably the most liberal when it comes to these things, not
so much because I *want* my kids exposed to so much, but because thats just the
way it is and I'm striving for a two way relationship with my kids in the
midst of it all. >>
If liberal is being realistic (in this situation) then what is conservative?
Seriously.
When a family shelters a child bigtime, to the point that they are basically
pretending that the way it is at their house (maybe certain language never
heard, maybe TV non-existent, maybe I don't know what else), when the kids leave
the next, aren't they going to be shocked and confused and somewhat resentful
of their parents' having created a false picture?
Or is that just going to be true even of families where they just don't force
bedtime or whatever?
New ideas. Unformed.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have A Nice Day!
Kelli,
For some reason your email got cut off. I went to the website to read the whole thing.
What you do sounds very much like what I do.
I use whats already there, and discuss several points of view with the kids. Its interesting because they often side with my point of view on things, but are surprised that there is another point of view. They are sometimes surprised that I would encourage them to investigate the "other side" and explain to them how the 'other side" might have a legitimate concern, even if we don't always agree.
My kids (maybe most kids?) like things to be black and white. Maybe it serves their sense of justice. But we have some interesting discussions.
When we had the last election, we talked about gun control. At first, they were all for it so that kids wouldnt get shot in schools. They weren't really thinking through all the related issues (like where people actually buy guns, and gun control won't matter much).
Then we talked about the Constitution. I know they didn't comprehend things to the same level I did. But they DID learn something new about the issue...and they learned that its not as simple as it first appears.
Making good judgements, and critical thinking all require us to look at issues in depth, not just on the black and white surface. I hope my kids gain a healthy sense of skepticism through all of this!!
Kristen
For some reason your email got cut off. I went to the website to read the whole thing.
What you do sounds very much like what I do.
I use whats already there, and discuss several points of view with the kids. Its interesting because they often side with my point of view on things, but are surprised that there is another point of view. They are sometimes surprised that I would encourage them to investigate the "other side" and explain to them how the 'other side" might have a legitimate concern, even if we don't always agree.
My kids (maybe most kids?) like things to be black and white. Maybe it serves their sense of justice. But we have some interesting discussions.
When we had the last election, we talked about gun control. At first, they were all for it so that kids wouldnt get shot in schools. They weren't really thinking through all the related issues (like where people actually buy guns, and gun control won't matter much).
Then we talked about the Constitution. I know they didn't comprehend things to the same level I did. But they DID learn something new about the issue...and they learned that its not as simple as it first appears.
Making good judgements, and critical thinking all require us to look at issues in depth, not just on the black and white surface. I hope my kids gain a healthy sense of skepticism through all of this!!
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Backstrom kelli
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Raising kids "right"
this is a very difficult issue for me. On one hand, I totally believe that I should not paint a pretty unrealistic picture for my kids by weeding through everything that they read and see on TV. I let them watch tv shows and all sorts of movies. However when it comes to info I want them to know that there are all sorts of other sources out there to learn and get correct and informative facts from. For example, when I grew up my dad was a conservative republican. He watched one news program, read one newspaper and informed me of one way of thinking. He sent me to a very conservative Catholic all girls hs and taught me to be strongly pro life (or you were basically a murderer) so naturally at 18 I registered as a REpublican and voted for Bush (senior) in 1992. Anyhow, to make a long story short I entered college soon thereafter and became exposed to all sorts of new ideas and thoughts and media outlets and sources. What a joy it was to begin to have political discussions that were both
Have A Nice Day! <litlrooh@...> wrote:If liberal is being realistic (in this situation) then what is conservative?<<<<
good point. What I meant was that in *their* world I am the most liberal.
I agree with you whole heartedly. I could care less whether my way is "liberal" or "conservative". Its for real in the real world. And that is the only thing that will really prepare them and give them a chance at protecting themselves from what is REALLy out there (whether we want it to be or not).
Making our homes a bubble is not going to stop our kids from becoming aware of information.
I suppose the argument goes that if we wait until they are "older" then the information is better handled.
I think it depends on how it is presented, and who is helping them navigate their way through it, at *any* age.
That doesn't mean I want my kids out there practicing what they hear about. But it does mean that they know its there, and they know *I* know its there too.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Raising kids "right"
In a message dated 6/1/03 12:44:18 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< Anyway, I'm probably the most liberal when it comes to these things, not
so much because I *want* my kids exposed to so much, but because thats just the
way it is and I'm striving for a two way relationship with my kids in the
midst of it all. >>
If liberal is being realistic (in this situation) then what is conservative?
Seriously.
When a family shelters a child bigtime, to the point that they are basically
pretending that the way it is at their house (maybe certain language never
heard, maybe TV non-existent, maybe I don't know what else), when the kids leave
the next, aren't they going to be shocked and confused and somewhat resentful
of their parents' having created a false picture?
Or is that just going to be true even of families where they just don't force
bedtime or whatever?
New ideas. Unformed.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
**I suppose the argument goes that if we wait until they are "older" then the
information is better handled. **
I know lots of people who think that. The problem is, they're waiting for
"older" to present any sort of information about sexuality and reproduction and
sabotaging themselves by doing so. A child in the throes of puberty is NOT
receptive to hearing these things for the first time. A lot of it is information
that if it doesn't get hung on the brain hooks before development starts, the
child isn't going to be able to listen to it till it's of little use to them
anymore. Developing people can be sensitive about talking about it. And
development starts early. Have these women not taken a look around at the kids
surrounding theirs? Honestly, if parents haven't already made a really good basis
with their kids of good honest talks and information, those kids aren't going to
come to them with their concerns. Kids know what parents don't want to talk
about.
If parents want to be the ones their kids get information from (and I agree
with them that that's a good thing) they need to start talking early and often,
not try to hide the world away till later.
I wish more parents would try to shelter their kids from knowing about
violence and war for a few more years, though. Makes me pretty inconsistent, huh? :)
Deborah in IL
information is better handled. **
I know lots of people who think that. The problem is, they're waiting for
"older" to present any sort of information about sexuality and reproduction and
sabotaging themselves by doing so. A child in the throes of puberty is NOT
receptive to hearing these things for the first time. A lot of it is information
that if it doesn't get hung on the brain hooks before development starts, the
child isn't going to be able to listen to it till it's of little use to them
anymore. Developing people can be sensitive about talking about it. And
development starts early. Have these women not taken a look around at the kids
surrounding theirs? Honestly, if parents haven't already made a really good basis
with their kids of good honest talks and information, those kids aren't going to
come to them with their concerns. Kids know what parents don't want to talk
about.
If parents want to be the ones their kids get information from (and I agree
with them that that's a good thing) they need to start talking early and often,
not try to hide the world away till later.
I wish more parents would try to shelter their kids from knowing about
violence and war for a few more years, though. Makes me pretty inconsistent, huh? :)
Deborah in IL
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/2003 9:45:07 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
dacunefare@... writes:
first part of Bambi. I don't even listen to the news myself. But when a sad
movie ending did seem worth seeing, I would warn them without giving away the
plot and watch it with them. The Cure, My Girl, seemed good intros to death
by disease. Violence in fantasy shows (Terminator, Batman, Zorro) was
cartoonish, but we could talk about it. Eddie (Meatloaf) in Rocky Horror was cheap
fake blood on ice. Also cartoony, and I would make light of it and remind them
it was making fun of lots of spooky movies and alien movies, different parts
of it. But I would hate for them to miss "Hot Patootie" because of some stage
blood, and they knew Meatloaf was alive and well and they were just acting.
Some weird things come when musical value is a higher priority than
sheltering children. Holly has been listening to Prince a lot lately. There some
slightly-skewed sex education, but she's really liking the music, and I don't
blame her. Another favorite of hers is Cyndi Lauper, and that's how she learned
about abortion (Sallie's Pigeons is about friendship, and the death of a
teenager from a backstreet abortion).
Because I'm with her and can do commentary and she can ask questions as soon
as she has them and she's not learning this stuff for shock value or to be
sneaky or "older than she is," when she IS older and away from home she will be
over or beyond the urge to talk about or seek out sex or violence just because
it's alluring secret grownup stuff.
But real violence and real meanness, yes I buffer them, even if I don't
totally wall it out.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dacunefare@... writes:
> I wish more parents would try to shelter their kids from knowing aboutI sheltered my little kids from the ending of WestSideStory. We watched the
> violence and war for a few more years, though. Makes me pretty inconsistent,
> huh? :)
>
first part of Bambi. I don't even listen to the news myself. But when a sad
movie ending did seem worth seeing, I would warn them without giving away the
plot and watch it with them. The Cure, My Girl, seemed good intros to death
by disease. Violence in fantasy shows (Terminator, Batman, Zorro) was
cartoonish, but we could talk about it. Eddie (Meatloaf) in Rocky Horror was cheap
fake blood on ice. Also cartoony, and I would make light of it and remind them
it was making fun of lots of spooky movies and alien movies, different parts
of it. But I would hate for them to miss "Hot Patootie" because of some stage
blood, and they knew Meatloaf was alive and well and they were just acting.
Some weird things come when musical value is a higher priority than
sheltering children. Holly has been listening to Prince a lot lately. There some
slightly-skewed sex education, but she's really liking the music, and I don't
blame her. Another favorite of hers is Cyndi Lauper, and that's how she learned
about abortion (Sallie's Pigeons is about friendship, and the death of a
teenager from a backstreet abortion).
Because I'm with her and can do commentary and she can ask questions as soon
as she has them and she's not learning this stuff for shock value or to be
sneaky or "older than she is," when she IS older and away from home she will be
over or beyond the urge to talk about or seek out sex or violence just because
it's alluring secret grownup stuff.
But real violence and real meanness, yes I buffer them, even if I don't
totally wall it out.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have A Nice Day!
Because I'm with her and can do commentary and she can ask questions as soon
as she has them and she's not learning this stuff for shock value or to be
sneaky or "older than she is,"<<<<
I think some kids appear that they are learning things for "shock value or to be "older than they are" because they really aren't entirely sure about themselves or what they know, and they use bravado to broach the subject without feeling embarrassed about it. Its like talking in code.
My kids do that. And sometimes I worry they've gotten way too much, way too soon. I worry that they turn to shock value and "trying to be older than they are" bec. I've given them too much information and maybe they weren't ready.
Yet, they were the ones who came to me with the questions couched in shock value. They really might not have been ready for discussion, but with the information they already had, I didn't have much choice.
They were also the ones testing me with shock value to see how I would respond. I responded in with my own version of shock value to let them know I was not at all surprised by their questions, that their questions were totally normal, and that I had answers to those questions that I would freely share. Since we were all using shock value humor to get the conversation started, nobody was embarrassed.
Once the conversation starts though, it tends to become much more serious while we discuss real issues.
I'm not sure if this is what you meant Sandra. This is what came to mind when you mentioned shock value and "being older than you are" though.
Kristen
as she has them and she's not learning this stuff for shock value or to be
sneaky or "older than she is,"<<<<
I think some kids appear that they are learning things for "shock value or to be "older than they are" because they really aren't entirely sure about themselves or what they know, and they use bravado to broach the subject without feeling embarrassed about it. Its like talking in code.
My kids do that. And sometimes I worry they've gotten way too much, way too soon. I worry that they turn to shock value and "trying to be older than they are" bec. I've given them too much information and maybe they weren't ready.
Yet, they were the ones who came to me with the questions couched in shock value. They really might not have been ready for discussion, but with the information they already had, I didn't have much choice.
They were also the ones testing me with shock value to see how I would respond. I responded in with my own version of shock value to let them know I was not at all surprised by their questions, that their questions were totally normal, and that I had answers to those questions that I would freely share. Since we were all using shock value humor to get the conversation started, nobody was embarrassed.
Once the conversation starts though, it tends to become much more serious while we discuss real issues.
I'm not sure if this is what you meant Sandra. This is what came to mind when you mentioned shock value and "being older than you are" though.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Raising kids "right"
In a message dated 6/1/2003 9:45:07 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
dacunefare@... writes:
> I wish more parents would try to shelter their kids from knowing about
> violence and war for a few more years, though. Makes me pretty inconsistent,
> huh? :)
>
I sheltered my little kids from the ending of WestSideStory. We watched the
first part of Bambi. I don't even listen to the news myself. But when a sad
movie ending did seem worth seeing, I would warn them without giving away the
plot and watch it with them. The Cure, My Girl, seemed good intros to death
by disease. Violence in fantasy shows (Terminator, Batman, Zorro) was
cartoonish, but we could talk about it. Eddie (Meatloaf) in Rocky Horror was cheap
fake blood on ice. Also cartoony, and I would make light of it and remind them
it was making fun of lots of spooky movies and alien movies, different parts
of it. But I would hate for them to miss "Hot Patootie" because of some stage
blood, and they knew Meatloaf was alive and well and they were just acting.
Some weird things come when musical value is a higher priority than
sheltering children. Holly has been listening to Prince a lot lately. There some
slightly-skewed sex education, but she's really liking the music, and I don't
blame her. Another favorite of hers is Cyndi Lauper, and that's how she learned
about abortion (Sallie's Pigeons is about friendship, and the death of a
teenager from a backstreet abortion).
Because I'm with her and can do commentary and she can ask questions as soon
as she has them and she's not learning this stuff for shock value or to be
sneaky or "older than she is," when she IS older and away from home she will be
over or beyond the urge to talk about or seek out sex or violence just because
it's alluring secret grownup stuff.
But real violence and real meanness, yes I buffer them, even if I don't
totally wall it out.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/03 10:52:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kellibac@... writes:
says is right (that is how I was raised). I want them to be able to gather
information ask different people for their opinions, talk about it and then
formulate their own ideas.
I believe that if I raise them to believe that what Mom says is right, what
will happen when Mom isn't around to say what is right any more. I would
rather they be able to form their own ideas.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kellibac@... writes:
> I try to have dialogues with them about what each side is thinking. ForThat is what I do with my boys. I don't want them to believe that what Mom
> example, what was Mr. Bush thinking when he sent our troops to war? Well, I
> would tell Molly that there are several ways to look at this issue and explain to
> her that she could listen to NPR and MSNBC and then we could talk about it,
> and yes, she will ask for my opinion (which is very liberal now) and I will
> tell her but I will also try to relay to her the importance of free speech and
> opinion in this country and try to engage her to formulate her own opinion
says is right (that is how I was raised). I want them to be able to gather
information ask different people for their opinions, talk about it and then
formulate their own ideas.
I believe that if I raise them to believe that what Mom says is right, what
will happen when Mom isn't around to say what is right any more. I would
rather they be able to form their own ideas.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/2/03 7:54:47 AM, genant2@... writes:
<< I believe that if I raise them to believe that what Mom says is right,
what
will happen when Mom isn't around to say what is right any more. I would
rather they be able to form their own ideas. >>
And more directly, what happens when mom is wrong a time or three? If one
thing's wrong, they can write off the rest. If they're encouraged to make each
decision based on the best information they have, they can choose to take
mom's word or not, but the decision was theirs.
Sandra
<< I believe that if I raise them to believe that what Mom says is right,
what
will happen when Mom isn't around to say what is right any more. I would
rather they be able to form their own ideas. >>
And more directly, what happens when mom is wrong a time or three? If one
thing's wrong, they can write off the rest. If they're encouraged to make each
decision based on the best information they have, they can choose to take
mom's word or not, but the decision was theirs.
Sandra
Have A Nice Day!
In a message dated 6/2/03 7:54:47 AM, genant2@... writes:
<< I believe that if I raise them to believe that what Mom says is right,
what
will happen when Mom isn't around to say what is right any more. I would
rather they be able to form their own ideas. >>
And more directly, what happens when mom is wrong a time or three? If one
thing's wrong, they can write off the rest. If they're encouraged to make each
decision based on the best information they have, they can choose to take
mom's word or not, but the decision was theirs.<<<<<<
Absolutely right.
Kristen
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<< I believe that if I raise them to believe that what Mom says is right,
what
will happen when Mom isn't around to say what is right any more. I would
rather they be able to form their own ideas. >>
And more directly, what happens when mom is wrong a time or three? If one
thing's wrong, they can write off the rest. If they're encouraged to make each
decision based on the best information they have, they can choose to take
mom's word or not, but the decision was theirs.<<<<<<
Absolutely right.
Kristen
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]