[email protected]

ok...now you even have Pam saying he wasn't unschooling. Is that the
general concensus? Might be a motivating speaker but not exactly what
an unschooler is looking for? Just want to be clear so I don't attend a
misleading seminar.
Can't make it to SC this time...but add me to the MIA list on the wall.
:) I like frozen mudslides!
Sharon

averyschmidt

--- In [email protected], sharonashleigh@w... wrote:
> ok...now you even have Pam saying he wasn't unschooling. Is that
the
> general concensus? Might be a motivating speaker but not exactly
what
> an unschooler is looking for?

From the times I've heard him/them speak, and from a couple of
things I've read, I have the impression that Pat is very
knowledgeable and enthusiastic about unschooling, but his daughters
happen to be academic oriented and Day supports that by helping them
meet their goals.

Patti

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/31/03 6:06:28 AM, sharonashleigh@... writes:

<< ok...now you even have Pam saying he wasn't unschooling. Is that the
general concensus? >>

I think she said maybe.
She's gone to girl scout camp.

Pam really likes the times she's heard him speak.

-=- Might be a motivating speaker but not exactly what
an unschooler is looking for? Just want to be clear so I don't attend a
misleading seminar. -=-

I'm surprised at the price of it, personally.
I can't imagine that you would get information you can't get at
www.unschooling.com, here, and other places online for free any day.

Sandra

Pamela Sorooshian

On Saturday, May 31, 2003, at 05:05 AM, sharonashleigh@... wrote:

> ok...now you even have Pam saying he wasn't unschooling.

Not me - I have no idea what goes on in their private lives.
Unschooling or not - or maybe did when the kids were younger and don't
anymore or never did or still do --- I don't know.

I was simply surprised to hear that "someone with the last name of F
who had run GWS" had said those kinds of things - because I've never
heard anything like that from Pat. But - that doesn't mean I know
anything about their real lives - one way or the other.

I'd have to agree that it would be disconcerting to discover that they
never unschooled. BUT - to be fair - what Pat talks about is learning
without a curriculum, etc., he is generally talking to audiences filled
with people who are trying to select the perfect curriculum and he's
trying to get them to at least step away from that. Maybe that's as far
as they ever went - not using a formal curriculum, but still teaching
"lessons" etc., of their own mix and match design. I don't think that
would be terribly surprising. Whether they are unschooling or not -
might be subject to interpretation, I guess. And I can tell you that we
will never all agree fully on a definition.

My kids sometimes do "courses" and stuff like that. Some of you would
undoubtedly argue that they are no longer unschooling when they sign up
for an online writing course at "secret school," for example. I think
you're wrong - but I don't care enough to argue extensively about it.
When these things are truly child-chosen (if not initiated) with no
pressure or compulsion from parents or other adults - I don't see
"writing course" as any different than a karate class or soccer team
membership. I think it is a bias against intellectual pursuits that
rears its head occasionally among unschoolers. My 12 yo daughter has
homework - assigned by her 4H club horse leader. She gets tested on it.
How to help her learn that material is a useful thing for me - she's
reading from a manual and will, this next year, be using a
college-level textbook on equine studies. It is tough stuff and if I
can learn to help her, that's a good thing because she LOVES it and
really really wants to gain the knowledge.

So - again - please don't say that I think anything, one way or the
other about whether or not they are unschooling. I don't even know, for
SURE, if we are!!! <G>


-pam

Pamela Sorooshian

On Saturday, May 31, 2003, at 06:49 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:

> She's gone to girl scout camp.
>
On my way out the door - see you on Monday!!!

> Pam really likes the times she's heard him speak.
>
I think he's a really nice person with a great sense of humor, lots of
interesting stories to tell about John Holt, and can be very
encouraging to those just considering dumping their curriculum.

> -=- Might be a motivating speaker but not exactly what
> an unschooler is looking for? Just want to be clear so I don't attend
> a
> misleading seminar. -=-
>
Take what you can - leave the rest.

> I'm surprised at the price of it, personally.
> I can't imagine that you would get information you can't get at
> www.unschooling.com, here, and other places online for free any day.
>
This is very very very true -- there is thousands of times more
information at these sources than anywhere else - NO speaker can
compare to the depth and breadth found here and at www.unschooling.com
--- for FREE.

Sometimes in-person talks are very inspiring though. Sandra's are so
energizing it is just amazing. I come away feeling like I'm walking
around in a warm glow. The stuff I have to say about math is more
difficult for me to do online - I need to do hands on stuff and I speak
better when I have real people with expressions on their faces right in
front of me.

So - I think in-person talks, seminars, workshops, conferences, are
fantastic and even life-changing at times. Priceless.
Those who are really great are those who are really trying to "give it
away" though, imo. So - yeah - I'd beware of high-priced talks, too.

-pam -- kids waiting in the car which is all packed up and now I'm
really going...... have a great weekend!!!

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/31/03 8:36:23 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:

<< I don't see
"writing course" as any different than a karate class or soccer team
membership. I think it is a bias against intellectual pursuits that
rears its head occasionally among unschoolers. >>

I think that until parents can see value in things which don't look
schoolish, they need to step away from academic things so they can see. People's eyes
don't adjust to seeing in the dark until the lights are turned off, and some
people never do succeed in seeing that writing CAN be learned other ways.

Your kids know that, Pam.

I know you know I know that. <g>

Some parents, though, seeing that your kids took writing classes for fun
might use that to justify pressing writing classes to help their kids be more like
your kids.

It wouldn't work, I'm just speaking in defense of what might seem like "bias
against intellectual pursuits" in helping people get from school-life to a
life without school.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/31/03 8:43:20 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:

<< Sometimes in-person talks are very inspiring though. Sandra's are so
energizing it is just amazing. I come away feeling like I'm walking
around in a warm glow. >>

If I were charging $60 a head, I'd better send people FLOATING away in a warm
VISIBLE glow.

Sandra

[email protected]

Pam S--hope you get this when you get back--I apologize, I misunderstood
you! Sorry to have misconstrued your words.

Thanks everyone for their input...and I have decided to use my funds for
a renewal of HEM and Life Long Learning Mag. instead. You are right--I
have many "speakers" here to choose from, free and (almost) on-call!
Sharon