Re: Farenga
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/2003 1:08:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Optional Homeschool. Sounds like we'll fit right in!
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> She had Pat's definition of unschooling written on anHmm...maybe we SHOULD go...we call our homeschool Collins Cove Clothing
> overhead: "Letting your children explore the world with as much
> freedom as you can possibly bare." (Her spelling of the last word,
> not mine.)
>
>
Optional Homeschool. Sounds like we'll fit right in!
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/15/2003 3:47:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added significant
amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this feeling
about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> But speaking of scary things, there is an interview with Patrick Farenga inHas anyone looked much at the "his" new edition of Teach Your Own? In all
>
> this new issue of The Old Schoolhouse.
>
> Remember the discussion here a month or two back, after Day spoke in Florida
>
> and someone expressed dismay that she didn't seem too dedicated to
> unschooling?
>
> According to this article, all their kids have been in school and out, and
> as
> of that writing, only the 16 year old (eldest) was home. He said the
> youngest will probably stay home too next year. He said the main reason was
> that he
> and his wife had to work full time after GWS closed.
>
> I'm glad to be here with "practicing unschoolers."
>
his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added significant
amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this feeling
about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/15/2003 6:27:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
through it yet---but it'll be available in August!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
> Has anyone looked much at the "his" new edition of Teach Your Own? In allHe just sent me a copy for the raffle. I haven't had a chance to thumb
> his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added
> significant
> amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this
> feeling
> about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
through it yet---but it'll be available in August!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Susan Durand
I can't say if your being judgmental or not and I haven't looked at the new
edition (I hate new editions) but....
I have a friend that's being faced with tough financial issues and both she
and her husband are going to have work.... her baby is going to have to go
to daycare (my worst nightmare) and her older children are going to have to
go to public school.....
I have another friend who - because of the different needs and wants of her
older children and because of moving to different cities, sick parents,
etc. - her children have been in and out of private schools a few times.....
We're all doing the best we can - I'm certainly glad my life isn't "out
there" for all to see.
-----Original Message-----
From: KathrynJB@... [mailto:KathrynJB@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
In a message dated 7/15/2003 3:47:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added
significant
amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this
feeling
about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
edition (I hate new editions) but....
I have a friend that's being faced with tough financial issues and both she
and her husband are going to have work.... her baby is going to have to go
to daycare (my worst nightmare) and her older children are going to have to
go to public school.....
I have another friend who - because of the different needs and wants of her
older children and because of moving to different cities, sick parents,
etc. - her children have been in and out of private schools a few times.....
We're all doing the best we can - I'm certainly glad my life isn't "out
there" for all to see.
-----Original Message-----
From: KathrynJB@... [mailto:KathrynJB@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
In a message dated 7/15/2003 3:47:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> But speaking of scary things, there is an interview with Patrick Farengain
>Florida
> this new issue of The Old Schoolhouse.
>
> Remember the discussion here a month or two back, after Day spoke in
>and
> and someone expressed dismay that she didn't seem too dedicated to
> unschooling?
>
> According to this article, all their kids have been in school and out,
> aswas
> of that writing, only the 16 year old (eldest) was home. He said the
> youngest will probably stay home too next year. He said the main reason
> that heHas anyone looked much at the "his" new edition of Teach Your Own? In all
> and his wife had to work full time after GWS closed.
>
> I'm glad to be here with "practicing unschoolers."
>
his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added
significant
amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this
feeling
about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Has anyone looked much at the "his" new edition of Teach Your Own? In all
his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added
significant
amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this
feeling
about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
I liked the new edition. Easy to read. Easy to skim through as well. I
think he added a lot and there was a lot of Holt there too. I recommend it to
new homeschoolers. Good read with an unschooling slant. I wasn't reading it
with a critical eye though, just something to read at the beach.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added
significant
amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this
feeling
about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
I liked the new edition. Easy to read. Easy to skim through as well. I
think he added a lot and there was a lot of Holt there too. I recommend it to
new homeschoolers. Good read with an unschooling slant. I wasn't reading it
with a critical eye though, just something to read at the beach.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/15/2003 9:35:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
genant2@... writes:
could seem icky to some. But I guess a lot of the original material pertained to
legal issues that no longer apply.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
genant2@... writes:
> I liked the new edition. Easy to read. Easy to skim through as well. II kind of liked it too although I can see how all that posthumous editing
> think he added a lot and there was a lot of Holt there too. I recommend it
> to
> new homeschoolers. Good read with an unschooling slant. I wasn't reading
> it
> with a critical eye though, just something to read at the beach.
> Pam G
could seem icky to some. But I guess a lot of the original material pertained to
legal issues that no longer apply.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gerard Westenberg
<<We're all doing the best we can - >>
Yes, we are - and I am sure that any unschooling family doesn't take a parents work/kids at school decision lightly. Its not ideal, there maybe other alternatvies, who knows but we all do what we feel we have to do...Leonie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes, we are - and I am sure that any unschooling family doesn't take a parents work/kids at school decision lightly. Its not ideal, there maybe other alternatvies, who knows but we all do what we feel we have to do...Leonie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/15/2003 9:35:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
genant2@... writes:
couple others by John Holt. There is a lot by Mr. Farenga, but you can tell the
difference. The original stuff is in bolder/different print, and at the
beginning of anything written by Mr. Farenga, there's a little curly-cue thing
marking it.
Personally, I think his comments will be best for newbies...a lot of the
stuff Holt wrote was outdated (example: the political side of homeschooling across
the country being much more against homeschooling than it is now) and Farenga
just sort of brings it up to date. I guess if someone didn't want to read
his slant on what Holt wrote, they could just skip anything he'd written. But
like I said, I believe his comments will "put at ease" people new to
unschooling.
JMO...I'm sort of new to unschooling also.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
genant2@... writes:
> I liked the new edition. Easy to read. Easy to skim through as well. II bought it also, but am only 1/3 of the way through it. I've only read a
> think he added a lot and there was a lot of Holt there too. I recommend it
> to
> new homeschoolers. Good read with an unschooling slant. I wasn't reading
> it
> with a critical eye though, just something to read at the beach.
> Pam G
>
couple others by John Holt. There is a lot by Mr. Farenga, but you can tell the
difference. The original stuff is in bolder/different print, and at the
beginning of anything written by Mr. Farenga, there's a little curly-cue thing
marking it.
Personally, I think his comments will be best for newbies...a lot of the
stuff Holt wrote was outdated (example: the political side of homeschooling across
the country being much more against homeschooling than it is now) and Farenga
just sort of brings it up to date. I guess if someone didn't want to read
his slant on what Holt wrote, they could just skip anything he'd written. But
like I said, I believe his comments will "put at ease" people new to
unschooling.
JMO...I'm sort of new to unschooling also.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Demetria
I am currently reading it...I'll let you know what I think.
Demetria
Demetria.Com- Where Herbs are our HeartSong.
http://www.demetria.com
Heart of Herbs- Beginner and Advanced Herbal and Aromatherapy Education.
http://www.heartofherbs.com
-----Original Message-----
From: genant2@... [mailto:genant2@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
Has anyone looked much at the "his" new edition of Teach Your Own? In all
his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added
significant
amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this
feeling
about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
I liked the new edition. Easy to read. Easy to skim through as well. I
think he added a lot and there was a lot of Holt there too. I recommend
it to
new homeschoolers. Good read with an unschooling slant. I wasn't reading
it
with a critical eye though, just something to read at the beach.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Demetria
Demetria.Com- Where Herbs are our HeartSong.
http://www.demetria.com
Heart of Herbs- Beginner and Advanced Herbal and Aromatherapy Education.
http://www.heartofherbs.com
-----Original Message-----
From: genant2@... [mailto:genant2@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
Has anyone looked much at the "his" new edition of Teach Your Own? In all
his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added
significant
amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this
feeling
about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
I liked the new edition. Easy to read. Easy to skim through as well. I
think he added a lot and there was a lot of Holt there too. I recommend
it to
new homeschoolers. Good read with an unschooling slant. I wasn't reading
it
with a critical eye though, just something to read at the beach.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/16/03 7:28:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
CelticFrau@... writes:
Sometimes I think Holt can be a little overwhelming for someone new to the
concept. So I recommend this and The Unschooling Handbook. These books get
you thinking outside the box without seeming to be too pushy.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CelticFrau@... writes:
> Personally, I think his comments will be best for newbies...a lot of theI think that is why I recommend it for new homeschoolers and new unschoolers.
> stuff Holt wrote was outdated (example: the political side of homeschooling
> across
> the country being much more against homeschooling than it is now) and
> Farenga
> just sort of brings it up to date.
Sometimes I think Holt can be a little overwhelming for someone new to the
concept. So I recommend this and The Unschooling Handbook. These books get
you thinking outside the box without seeming to be too pushy.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alan & Brenda Leonard
7/16/03 03:14:
in there, and much of the editing that Pat Farenga did was helpful. For
example, he basically re-wrote the chapter on legal issues, using as much as
he could from John Holt, but things have changed so much, and his new
chapter is more helpful than just John's old one would have been. The books
does distinguish in lighter and darker print which person is writing at the
moment, which was important to me.
Having said that, I still got a little bit of an uneasy feeling about his
comments on curriculum and getting started and all. It's possible to read
into his comments that he and Day unschool. It's possible to feel like they
use the word curriculum in the way the unschooling curriculum that Carol (?)
wrote (the one at Sandra's website) is used. But it didn't feel quite right
to use it that way.
I haven't seen publicity on the book, and I suspect it would just make me
angry if in fact he does refer to it as his book. It's still very much
John's book, with some helpful additions and updating based on the
perspective of 20 years.
brenda
> Has anyone looked much at the "his" new edition of Teach Your Own? In allI read the new edition. I liked it, because there's so much good John Holt
> his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added significant
> amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this feeling
> about this? Maybe I'm just being judgemental.
in there, and much of the editing that Pat Farenga did was helpful. For
example, he basically re-wrote the chapter on legal issues, using as much as
he could from John Holt, but things have changed so much, and his new
chapter is more helpful than just John's old one would have been. The books
does distinguish in lighter and darker print which person is writing at the
moment, which was important to me.
Having said that, I still got a little bit of an uneasy feeling about his
comments on curriculum and getting started and all. It's possible to read
into his comments that he and Day unschool. It's possible to feel like they
use the word curriculum in the way the unschooling curriculum that Carol (?)
wrote (the one at Sandra's website) is used. But it didn't feel quite right
to use it that way.
I haven't seen publicity on the book, and I suspect it would just make me
angry if in fact he does refer to it as his book. It's still very much
John's book, with some helpful additions and updating based on the
perspective of 20 years.
brenda
glad2bmadly
> Has anyone looked much at the "his" new edition of Teach Your Own? In allI saw that he referred to it as his book as well, I can't remember where. But now that I have read the book, yes it feels very wrong that he does that. It is John Holt's book with some practical updates from Farenga. I thought the curriculum info. at the end was counter to what John Holt's books stress and wondered if Holt would have wanted that. He seems to be trying to include all homeschooling communities. I am going to lend it to my hschooling friends who are open to hearing about unschooling but I have also told them to come here for the real thing!
> his publicity he refers to it as his book, and I guess he's added significant
> amounts to it. Somehow it all feels...icky. Has anyone else had this feeling
> about this?
madeline
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/15/03 5:47:55 PM, sdurand1@... writes:
<< We're all doing the best we can - I'm certainly glad my life isn't "out
there" for all to see. >>
Well sure.
But if someone's taking money to talk to parents about how to parent and hold
a fulltime job, it seems to ME she ought to be holding a fulltime job.
And if someone's going to take money to do lectures or workshops on
unschooling, can't they fairly be expected to really be unschoolers?
Sandra
<< We're all doing the best we can - I'm certainly glad my life isn't "out
there" for all to see. >>
Well sure.
But if someone's taking money to talk to parents about how to parent and hold
a fulltime job, it seems to ME she ought to be holding a fulltime job.
And if someone's going to take money to do lectures or workshops on
unschooling, can't they fairly be expected to really be unschoolers?
Sandra
nellebelle
>>>>>And if someone's going to take money to do lectures or workshops on unschooling, can't they fairly be expected to really be unschoolers?>>>>>Absolutely!! But I think there is still confusion out there on what unschooling is.
I know someone who says she is unschooling now that they have completed the mom's annual goals. They will "unschool" until fall. Many others think unschooling except for math is really unschooling. Or that kids are unschooling when they meet the parent's goals in the child's own learning style.
Either the Farengas don't really understand unschooling, or....?
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Susan Durand
Ideally your right.... I guess I was just trying to say that there always
seems to be a few sides to every story - especially when a family is
involved and unless you know farenga personally to know why she does what
she does - it's impossible to say that she is or isn't doing the right thing
for her family...... and yes unschooling means different things to different
people.
I guess also feeling judged lately myself (and I'm pregnant) which makes me
a little sensitive. Last week at my neighbor hood pool, one of the ladies
asked why my 3.5 yr. old wasn't in pre-school. I of course told her I was
going to home school and she responded in a loud voice saying - "what, our
elementary school isn't good enough for you" - wow! the assumptions she
made with out knowing anything about me and my family. Do these things
happen to everyone that home schools or do I just put myself in the wrong
social groups??
Also..... 2 weeks ago, my neighbors child said to me "my mom and dad say
your not very religious and it (god) isn't very important to you" - seeing
as my neighbor is also my friend this was a yucky thing to hear. I'm a
Unitarian Univeralist and my neighbor is a Christian - for those who don't
know anything about UUism it's a religion for all we have Christians,
Jewish, etc.,etc. people in our congregation anyway.......
Susan in Atlanta
[Susan Durand]
----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
In a message dated 7/15/03 5:47:55 PM, sdurand1@... writes:
<< We're all doing the best we can - I'm certainly glad my life isn't "out
there" for all to see. >>
Well sure.
But if someone's taking money to talk to parents about how to parent and
hold
a fulltime job, it seems to ME she ought to be holding a fulltime job.
And if someone's going to take money to do lectures or workshops on
unschooling, can't they fairly be expected to really be unschoolers?
Sandra
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
seems to be a few sides to every story - especially when a family is
involved and unless you know farenga personally to know why she does what
she does - it's impossible to say that she is or isn't doing the right thing
for her family...... and yes unschooling means different things to different
people.
I guess also feeling judged lately myself (and I'm pregnant) which makes me
a little sensitive. Last week at my neighbor hood pool, one of the ladies
asked why my 3.5 yr. old wasn't in pre-school. I of course told her I was
going to home school and she responded in a loud voice saying - "what, our
elementary school isn't good enough for you" - wow! the assumptions she
made with out knowing anything about me and my family. Do these things
happen to everyone that home schools or do I just put myself in the wrong
social groups??
Also..... 2 weeks ago, my neighbors child said to me "my mom and dad say
your not very religious and it (god) isn't very important to you" - seeing
as my neighbor is also my friend this was a yucky thing to hear. I'm a
Unitarian Univeralist and my neighbor is a Christian - for those who don't
know anything about UUism it's a religion for all we have Christians,
Jewish, etc.,etc. people in our congregation anyway.......
Susan in Atlanta
[Susan Durand]
----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
In a message dated 7/15/03 5:47:55 PM, sdurand1@... writes:
<< We're all doing the best we can - I'm certainly glad my life isn't "out
there" for all to see. >>
Well sure.
But if someone's taking money to talk to parents about how to parent and
hold
a fulltime job, it seems to ME she ought to be holding a fulltime job.
And if someone's going to take money to do lectures or workshops on
unschooling, can't they fairly be expected to really be unschoolers?
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/18/03 9:05:45 AM, nellebelle@... writes:
<< Either the Farengas don't really understand unschooling, or....? >>
Or having your kids in school and only giving them as much freedom as the mom
is comfortable giving them is unschooling.
But it's not.
It seems that having one's husband do word processing for John Holt for a few
years isn't the same as actually wondering about and finding out about and
trusting natural learning.
Sandra
<< Either the Farengas don't really understand unschooling, or....? >>
Or having your kids in school and only giving them as much freedom as the mom
is comfortable giving them is unschooling.
But it's not.
It seems that having one's husband do word processing for John Holt for a few
years isn't the same as actually wondering about and finding out about and
trusting natural learning.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/18/03 12:11:23 PM, sdurand1@... writes:
<< especially when a family is
involved and unless you know farenga personally to know why she does what
she does - it's impossible to say that she is or isn't doing the right thing
for her family...... >>
It doesn't matter whether what they're doing is "right for their family," the
question is whether unschooling "experts" should be unschooling.
Patrick Farenga seems not to be unschooling, yet he is speaking at
conferences as an unschooler.
Day Farenga, his wife, spoke in Florida recently.
Sandra
<< especially when a family is
involved and unless you know farenga personally to know why she does what
she does - it's impossible to say that she is or isn't doing the right thing
for her family...... >>
It doesn't matter whether what they're doing is "right for their family," the
question is whether unschooling "experts" should be unschooling.
Patrick Farenga seems not to be unschooling, yet he is speaking at
conferences as an unschooler.
Day Farenga, his wife, spoke in Florida recently.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/18/2003 3:28:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
school and they are currently not unschooling the way they have/had in the past?
Because someone no longer does something that made them an expert does that
mean then that they have nothing worth sharing?
What about a magnificent doctor who had the best bedside manner and was very
skilled in saving lives, he stops tending to patients on a daily basis. He
then gives talks about how OTHERS should do this. Is his word not credible
since he is no longer being this wonderful doctor to patients everyday?
Maybe if he pretends at his "talks" that he is still treating patients daily
that could be taken as wrong. What if he's truthful and said this is HOW I
USED to do this and it worked wonderfully for me and others I've shared this
information with in the past and it just might be helpful to you when you treat
patients today?
I guess it's all in how your perceive the information for yourself. Either
that he has useful information for you and your journey or he doesn't and leave
it at that. Kinda like here I guess, take what you need/want and leave the
rest.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Patrick Farenga seems not to be unschooling, yet he is speaking atBut aren't they honest in saying that some of their children are now in
> conferences as an unschooler.
>
> Day Farenga, his wife, spoke in Florida recently.
>
> Sandra
>
school and they are currently not unschooling the way they have/had in the past?
Because someone no longer does something that made them an expert does that
mean then that they have nothing worth sharing?
What about a magnificent doctor who had the best bedside manner and was very
skilled in saving lives, he stops tending to patients on a daily basis. He
then gives talks about how OTHERS should do this. Is his word not credible
since he is no longer being this wonderful doctor to patients everyday?
Maybe if he pretends at his "talks" that he is still treating patients daily
that could be taken as wrong. What if he's truthful and said this is HOW I
USED to do this and it worked wonderfully for me and others I've shared this
information with in the past and it just might be helpful to you when you treat
patients today?
I guess it's all in how your perceive the information for yourself. Either
that he has useful information for you and your journey or he doesn't and leave
it at that. Kinda like here I guess, take what you need/want and leave the
rest.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: "Susan Durand" <sdurand1@...>
<<"what, our elementary school isn't good enough for you" - wow! the
assumptions she
made with out knowing anything about me and my family. Do these things
happen to everyone that home schools or do I just put myself in the wrong
social groups??>>
Could be but chances are you would hear it from at least one person in your
journey. My MIL was very upset when she found out we were keeping our kids
home. She actually got mad because she couldn't understand how school was
good enough for everyone else in the family except our kids. No one had ever
mentioned school not being good enough. Those were her words. My SIL, who is
an office manager in the school system, when hearing us mention we wanted to
homeschool, first said how all the homeschooling kids she knew were very
sneaky. Then said it would probably be okay as long as we didn't keep them
in the house all the time!!!! I've actually had nicer things said to me by
strangers than my in laws.
As far as the religion thing goes, same with the family. They give us a much
harder time are definitely more judgemental than any strangers or friends.
We don't see them anymore. Just my MIL maybe once a week for about 20
minutes. The rest just aren't worth it for us or our kids.
Mary B
<<"what, our elementary school isn't good enough for you" - wow! the
assumptions she
made with out knowing anything about me and my family. Do these things
happen to everyone that home schools or do I just put myself in the wrong
social groups??>>
Could be but chances are you would hear it from at least one person in your
journey. My MIL was very upset when she found out we were keeping our kids
home. She actually got mad because she couldn't understand how school was
good enough for everyone else in the family except our kids. No one had ever
mentioned school not being good enough. Those were her words. My SIL, who is
an office manager in the school system, when hearing us mention we wanted to
homeschool, first said how all the homeschooling kids she knew were very
sneaky. Then said it would probably be okay as long as we didn't keep them
in the house all the time!!!! I've actually had nicer things said to me by
strangers than my in laws.
As far as the religion thing goes, same with the family. They give us a much
harder time are definitely more judgemental than any strangers or friends.
We don't see them anymore. Just my MIL maybe once a week for about 20
minutes. The rest just aren't worth it for us or our kids.
Mary B
Susan Durand
I'm sure that is the question for some..... and if they are standing up in
front of a crowd and saying they are presently homeschooling their children
and it's just not true, well bring out the whip :) I'll strike first!
I don't know, actually I've never heard them speak and don't know much about
them..... for what it's worth I'm not trying to save their reputation or
increase enrollment in their lectures,etc.... just putting in my 2 cents
about how different perceptions can make the same information seem good or
bad, right or wrong. Even at 3.5, I try to teach this to my son on a daily
basis.... just an important value in my life.
But, if they've unschooled for any length of time, well then it's really
longer than I have so to me they are experts (I'll take what I can get - sad
but true.) and to me it does matter if they are doing what's right for there
family, otherwise I'm sure I wouldn't want to hear them speak.
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
In a message dated 7/18/03 12:11:23 PM, sdurand1@... writes:
<< especially when a family is
involved and unless you know farenga personally to know why she does what
she does - it's impossible to say that she is or isn't doing the right
thing
for her family...... >>
It doesn't matter whether what they're doing is "right for their family,"
the
question is whether unschooling "experts" should be unschooling.
Patrick Farenga seems not to be unschooling, yet he is speaking at
conferences as an unschooler.
Day Farenga, his wife, spoke in Florida recently.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
front of a crowd and saying they are presently homeschooling their children
and it's just not true, well bring out the whip :) I'll strike first!
I don't know, actually I've never heard them speak and don't know much about
them..... for what it's worth I'm not trying to save their reputation or
increase enrollment in their lectures,etc.... just putting in my 2 cents
about how different perceptions can make the same information seem good or
bad, right or wrong. Even at 3.5, I try to teach this to my son on a daily
basis.... just an important value in my life.
But, if they've unschooled for any length of time, well then it's really
longer than I have so to me they are experts (I'll take what I can get - sad
but true.) and to me it does matter if they are doing what's right for there
family, otherwise I'm sure I wouldn't want to hear them speak.
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
In a message dated 7/18/03 12:11:23 PM, sdurand1@... writes:
<< especially when a family is
involved and unless you know farenga personally to know why she does what
she does - it's impossible to say that she is or isn't doing the right
thing
for her family...... >>
It doesn't matter whether what they're doing is "right for their family,"
the
question is whether unschooling "experts" should be unschooling.
Patrick Farenga seems not to be unschooling, yet he is speaking at
conferences as an unschooler.
Day Farenga, his wife, spoke in Florida recently.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Susan Durand
I'm sure that is the question for some..... and if they are standing up in
front of a crowd and saying they are presently homeschooling their children
and it's just not true, well bring out the whip :) I'll strike first!
I don't know, actually I've never heard them speak and don't know much about
them..... for what it's worth I'm not trying to save their reputation or
increase enrollment in their lectures,etc.... just putting in my 2 cents
about how different perceptions can make the same information seem good or
bad, right or wrong. Even at 3.5, I try to teach this to my son on a daily
basis.... just an important value in my life.
But, if they've unschooled for any length of time, well then it's really
longer than I have so to me they are experts (I'll take what I can get - sad
but true.) and to me it does matter if they are doing what's right for there
family, otherwise I'm sure I wouldn't want to hear them speak.
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
In a message dated 7/18/03 12:11:23 PM, sdurand1@... writes:
<< especially when a family is
involved and unless you know farenga personally to know why she does what
she does - it's impossible to say that she is or isn't doing the right
thing
for her family...... >>
It doesn't matter whether what they're doing is "right for their family,"
the
question is whether unschooling "experts" should be unschooling.
Patrick Farenga seems not to be unschooling, yet he is speaking at
conferences as an unschooler.
Day Farenga, his wife, spoke in Florida recently.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
front of a crowd and saying they are presently homeschooling their children
and it's just not true, well bring out the whip :) I'll strike first!
I don't know, actually I've never heard them speak and don't know much about
them..... for what it's worth I'm not trying to save their reputation or
increase enrollment in their lectures,etc.... just putting in my 2 cents
about how different perceptions can make the same information seem good or
bad, right or wrong. Even at 3.5, I try to teach this to my son on a daily
basis.... just an important value in my life.
But, if they've unschooled for any length of time, well then it's really
longer than I have so to me they are experts (I'll take what I can get - sad
but true.) and to me it does matter if they are doing what's right for there
family, otherwise I'm sure I wouldn't want to hear them speak.
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Farenga
In a message dated 7/18/03 12:11:23 PM, sdurand1@... writes:
<< especially when a family is
involved and unless you know farenga personally to know why she does what
she does - it's impossible to say that she is or isn't doing the right
thing
for her family...... >>
It doesn't matter whether what they're doing is "right for their family,"
the
question is whether unschooling "experts" should be unschooling.
Patrick Farenga seems not to be unschooling, yet he is speaking at
conferences as an unschooler.
Day Farenga, his wife, spoke in Florida recently.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>After all the time they spent with John Holt?
> Either the Farengas don't really understand unschooling, or....?
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Alan & Brenda Leonard
7/19/03 15:36:
Also, the Farengas' children all came after John's death, right? (I
think....I'm not good on dates.) So they may well have understood John's
ideas, but found them difficult to put into practice.
I can relate to that -- many authors have made homeschooling (and many other
things) sound reasonably easy, until you get into the day to day-ness of it.
brenda
>> Either the Farengas don't really understand unschooling, or....?Working for somebody doesn't guarantee that you pick up their ideas.
>
> After all the time they spent with John Holt?
> Tia
Also, the Farengas' children all came after John's death, right? (I
think....I'm not good on dates.) So they may well have understood John's
ideas, but found them difficult to put into practice.
I can relate to that -- many authors have made homeschooling (and many other
things) sound reasonably easy, until you get into the day to day-ness of it.
brenda
Deniz Martinez
OK, I'm a long-time lurker who's going to open my big mouth about
just this one thing, LOL!
To those who are criticizing the Farengas because they are presenting
themselves as unschooling experts but not actually unschooling
themselves, would it also be fair then to say that John Holt himself
couldn't really be a true expert on children and/or unschooling,
since he never had any children of his own and thus never actually
unschooled any children of his own? Just as merely being around and
oberving Holt and publishing his GWS newletters and being the
president of Holt Associates etc. etc. isn't the same as actually
practicing unschooling yourself, couldn't it also be said that merely
being around and observing and teaching OTHER people's children isn't
the same as having and raising children of your OWN?
[Let me right now emphasize the fact that I am a HUGE John Holt fan,
and my question should in no way be taken as a criticism of him or
his ideas...I'm just trying to explore the line of logic that
dictates one must always have first-hand experience with something in
order to be considered credible on the subject.]
I honestly don't know what exactly the Farengas are doing with their
own children except for the second-hand things that I've heard on
this list--does somebody have some more specific details? Are you
guys saying that their kids are currently in public school and that
that it's NOT the kids' choice to be there? If the charge being made
isn't merely that they Farengas don't have personal experience with
unschooling, but are deliberately doing things which blatantly go
against unschooling philosophy, then I suppose I WOULD be a little
skeptical about their credibility as true unschooling supporters...
Cheers,
Deniz
just this one thing, LOL!
To those who are criticizing the Farengas because they are presenting
themselves as unschooling experts but not actually unschooling
themselves, would it also be fair then to say that John Holt himself
couldn't really be a true expert on children and/or unschooling,
since he never had any children of his own and thus never actually
unschooled any children of his own? Just as merely being around and
oberving Holt and publishing his GWS newletters and being the
president of Holt Associates etc. etc. isn't the same as actually
practicing unschooling yourself, couldn't it also be said that merely
being around and observing and teaching OTHER people's children isn't
the same as having and raising children of your OWN?
[Let me right now emphasize the fact that I am a HUGE John Holt fan,
and my question should in no way be taken as a criticism of him or
his ideas...I'm just trying to explore the line of logic that
dictates one must always have first-hand experience with something in
order to be considered credible on the subject.]
I honestly don't know what exactly the Farengas are doing with their
own children except for the second-hand things that I've heard on
this list--does somebody have some more specific details? Are you
guys saying that their kids are currently in public school and that
that it's NOT the kids' choice to be there? If the charge being made
isn't merely that they Farengas don't have personal experience with
unschooling, but are deliberately doing things which blatantly go
against unschooling philosophy, then I suppose I WOULD be a little
skeptical about their credibility as true unschooling supporters...
Cheers,
Deniz
Pamela Sorooshian
On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 08:09 AM, Deniz Martinez wrote:
there are, imo, big gaps in what John Holt wrote exactly because he
wrote as an educator and not a parent. It is what we fill in, on lists
like this, and what is filled in by us unschooling-parents who speak at
conferences. I wish John Holt had lived to see it - he started the
process with GWS which was entirely composed of parents' descriptions
of their unschooling lives and by holding small meetings with parents
where he talked AND they talked. He knew that it was parents moving in
the directions he'd pointed to who would really develop unschooling,
I'm sure. I think he'd be thrilled at the organic nature of the
unschooling community and how individuals have stepped forward to offer
their ideas even beyond his and their experiences implementing his
ideas in their families. When I speak at conferences, I am aware of and
feel very much a part of a process that started with John Holt and GWS.
John wrote about how kids learn math but it was almost entirely
observation of kids in some kind of institutional learning situation.
He realized that that wasn't needed and talked about how kids could
just learn from their regular life activities and then tackle formal
math and learn it very quickly when they wanted to do so -- but he
really doesn't talk in enough detail about "how" that natural learning
happens or about what parents can do to support it or at all about what
parents who are, themselves, math phobic/anxious, can do to overcome
that. In other words - the practicalities of really BEING a
homeschooling parent were not what he wrote about.
Pat's not an educator - he doesn't work with children other than his
own. He worked with John Holt and talked to him about his work a lot
and has read his work a lot and, I always thought, anyway - followed up
on that by unschooling his own children.
If they aren't unschooling, I would be more interested in hearing about
why not than to hear him sort of speak in place of John Holt. He does,
imo, a darn GOOD job of speaking in place of John Holt, though. I think
Pat is a really enjoyable and inspiring speaker. I would feel a little
duped, though, to think he was part of talking me INTO unschooling but
wasn't convinced enough to unschool his own kids? Luckily, it couldn't
change my own mind about unschooling because the only thing that really
convinced me about unschooling was to do it and watch the kids and
promise myself never to interrupt what they were doing with "imposed
lessons" unless I was convinced that there was nothing at all of value
going on already. Well- there is ALWAYS something of value - and I saw
that more and more as I learned to recognize what was valuable.
-pam
> couldn't it also be said that merelyHe represented himself as what he was - an educator. And, in fact,
> being around and observing and teaching OTHER people's children isn't
> the same as having and raising children of your OWN?
there are, imo, big gaps in what John Holt wrote exactly because he
wrote as an educator and not a parent. It is what we fill in, on lists
like this, and what is filled in by us unschooling-parents who speak at
conferences. I wish John Holt had lived to see it - he started the
process with GWS which was entirely composed of parents' descriptions
of their unschooling lives and by holding small meetings with parents
where he talked AND they talked. He knew that it was parents moving in
the directions he'd pointed to who would really develop unschooling,
I'm sure. I think he'd be thrilled at the organic nature of the
unschooling community and how individuals have stepped forward to offer
their ideas even beyond his and their experiences implementing his
ideas in their families. When I speak at conferences, I am aware of and
feel very much a part of a process that started with John Holt and GWS.
John wrote about how kids learn math but it was almost entirely
observation of kids in some kind of institutional learning situation.
He realized that that wasn't needed and talked about how kids could
just learn from their regular life activities and then tackle formal
math and learn it very quickly when they wanted to do so -- but he
really doesn't talk in enough detail about "how" that natural learning
happens or about what parents can do to support it or at all about what
parents who are, themselves, math phobic/anxious, can do to overcome
that. In other words - the practicalities of really BEING a
homeschooling parent were not what he wrote about.
Pat's not an educator - he doesn't work with children other than his
own. He worked with John Holt and talked to him about his work a lot
and has read his work a lot and, I always thought, anyway - followed up
on that by unschooling his own children.
If they aren't unschooling, I would be more interested in hearing about
why not than to hear him sort of speak in place of John Holt. He does,
imo, a darn GOOD job of speaking in place of John Holt, though. I think
Pat is a really enjoyable and inspiring speaker. I would feel a little
duped, though, to think he was part of talking me INTO unschooling but
wasn't convinced enough to unschool his own kids? Luckily, it couldn't
change my own mind about unschooling because the only thing that really
convinced me about unschooling was to do it and watch the kids and
promise myself never to interrupt what they were doing with "imposed
lessons" unless I was convinced that there was nothing at all of value
going on already. Well- there is ALWAYS something of value - and I saw
that more and more as I learned to recognize what was valuable.
-pam
Deniz Martinez
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
that "Farenga also practices what he preaches, homeschooling his
three daughters with the help of his wife, Day":
http://www.townonline.com/medford/news/local_regional/med_newmthomesch
oolbooktpncpc06112003.htm
So I still am curious to the specific details that contradict this
claim.
Cheers,
Deniz
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
> Pat's not an educator - he doesn't work with children other thanHere is an article from just last month that specifically states
> his own. He worked with John Holt and talked to him about his work
> a lot and has read his work a lot and, I always thought, anyway -
> followed up on that by unschooling his own children.
that "Farenga also practices what he preaches, homeschooling his
three daughters with the help of his wife, Day":
http://www.townonline.com/medford/news/local_regional/med_newmthomesch
oolbooktpncpc06112003.htm
So I still am curious to the specific details that contradict this
claim.
Cheers,
Deniz
Tia Leschke
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
it.
" He is the current president of Holt Associates, as well as the literary
executive overseeing publications like the magazine Growing Without
Schooling."
Possibly the information about whether he is currently homeschooling is also
out of date. I don't know.
Tia
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
> Here is an article from just last month that specifically statesI don't have that detail, but the article has other outdated information in
> that "Farenga also practices what he preaches, homeschooling his
> three daughters with the help of his wife, Day":
>
> http://www.townonline.com/medford/news/local_regional/med_newmthomesch
> oolbooktpncpc06112003.htm
>
> So I still am curious to the specific details that contradict this
> claim.
it.
" He is the current president of Holt Associates, as well as the literary
executive overseeing publications like the magazine Growing Without
Schooling."
Possibly the information about whether he is currently homeschooling is also
out of date. I don't know.
Tia
nellebelle
There is a huge difference between an educator with no children promoting unschooling and a parent claiming to unschool when perhaps he may not be.
John Holt did try some of his theories on actual children, even though they weren't his offspring.
From the article linked below: "Learning by doing is an effective method of teaching that many classrooms neglect," Farenga said. "I knew a kid who couldn't do a simple math problem on the blackboard, but when he went bowling, he did much more difficult math while scoring games.>>>>
Funny, I seem to remember that story from one of Holt's books. One of the students in a class he was teaching couldn't do the math. Holt happened to go bowling and discovered that this kid kept score for a bowling league, before the days of automatic scorekeeping. What a coincidence that Farenga also knew a child like that!!
Mary Ellen
John Holt did try some of his theories on actual children, even though they weren't his offspring.
From the article linked below: "Learning by doing is an effective method of teaching that many classrooms neglect," Farenga said. "I knew a kid who couldn't do a simple math problem on the blackboard, but when he went bowling, he did much more difficult math while scoring games.>>>>
Funny, I seem to remember that story from one of Holt's books. One of the students in a class he was teaching couldn't do the math. Holt happened to go bowling and discovered that this kid kept score for a bowling league, before the days of automatic scorekeeping. What a coincidence that Farenga also knew a child like that!!
Mary Ellen
----- Original Message -----Here is an article from just last month that specifically states
that "Farenga also practices what he preaches, homeschooling his
three daughters with the help of his wife, Day":
http://www.townonline.com/medford/news/local_regional/med_newmthomesch
oolbooktpncpc06112003.htm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 12:36 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... wrote:
parents into a big hospital ward where they don't get individual
attention?
I'm NOT saying Pat and Day are doing that - just saying that the
example given isn't convincing in and of itself.
-pam
> What about a magnificent doctor who had the best bedside manner andBut what if he stops attending patients and puts his own elderly
> was very
> skilled in saving lives, he stops tending to patients on a daily
> basis. He
> then gives talks about how OTHERS should do this.
parents into a big hospital ward where they don't get individual
attention?
I'm NOT saying Pat and Day are doing that - just saying that the
example given isn't convincing in and of itself.
-pam
Deniz Martinez
What I'm still not hearing is whether the children were put into
school against their will, or if they had a say in the matter and
went willingly. The way I understand it, if a child freely CHOOSES to
go to school, then that is still unschooling. I would go a degree
farther and also suggest that if parents and children have a family
meeting and mutually and respectfully arrive at the decision that
having the children enroll in school temporarily for whatever reason
(financial or otherwise) in a necessity, then that isn't something
which can so easily be criticized.
It seems to me that in the absence of intimitate knowledge about the
Farengas' private lives (specifically in regards to the central
question of how much input the children had in being sent to school),
the charges that the Farengas are somehow hypocrites and are not
practicing what they're preaching are just pure speculation on the
critics' parts, based on anecdotal evidence and gossip. If I am wrong
about this and some of you are indeed basing your criticisms on
specific verifiable details and first-hand knowledge, I would again
be curious to hear that evidence. I certainly would be disappointed
to find out that they were indeed being hypocritical by supporting
unschooling publicly but blatantly going against it privately. As of
yet though, I haven't heard enough specifics to definitively come to
this conclusion.
Cheers,
Deniz
school against their will, or if they had a say in the matter and
went willingly. The way I understand it, if a child freely CHOOSES to
go to school, then that is still unschooling. I would go a degree
farther and also suggest that if parents and children have a family
meeting and mutually and respectfully arrive at the decision that
having the children enroll in school temporarily for whatever reason
(financial or otherwise) in a necessity, then that isn't something
which can so easily be criticized.
It seems to me that in the absence of intimitate knowledge about the
Farengas' private lives (specifically in regards to the central
question of how much input the children had in being sent to school),
the charges that the Farengas are somehow hypocrites and are not
practicing what they're preaching are just pure speculation on the
critics' parts, based on anecdotal evidence and gossip. If I am wrong
about this and some of you are indeed basing your criticisms on
specific verifiable details and first-hand knowledge, I would again
be curious to hear that evidence. I certainly would be disappointed
to find out that they were indeed being hypocritical by supporting
unschooling publicly but blatantly going against it privately. As of
yet though, I haven't heard enough specifics to definitively come to
this conclusion.
Cheers,
Deniz