Re: 7 is still little.
Robin Clevenger
From: grlynbl@...
things. It seems that whenever I've traveled to places where people are
still living the way many of our ancestors did, you see kids being very
independent and responsible for *so much*. It was interesting in Africa to
see 6 year old boys out in the field tending herds of goats, and only
slightly older boys with herds of cattle. And girls of this age are carrying
around their smaller siblings on their back, or pounding corn, or whatever.
I think our conception of childhood is largely a modern fabrication. Most
kids around the world don't get this amazing 18 year period to just be kids.
They have big responsbilities at a very young age, and are expected to do a
large part of the family work as soon as they're able. In many cultures,
when a child is weaned they move out into the world of big people. Those
first 4 - 7 years are all that they get to really *just* be a kid. In some
cultures if they're males they never do speak directly to their mothers
again after they're weaned.
Now all that being said, I'm not going to enslave my oldest or think he
ought to grow up too soon or tell him he can't speak to me. For good or bad,
we're living in the culture we are right now, and I value the fact that I
can give my kids the gift of a childhood that's relatively free from
concern. There's nothing like the day we spent yesterday, glorious sunshine
and we're out camping. The kids are playing with their friends in the mud
and sand and a creek and it's a school day in the middle of a workweek so
the campground is empty!
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
> His parents relied heavily on himseemed to
>to be the big helper, the leader, the one they could count on.. Not all
>"bad" stuff, but just a lot of responsibility for an 8 year old. They
>do exactly what Sandra said earlier. In essence, they "gave thier oldestchild
>away" They took away his childhood, his dependency on them. Theypromoted
>him up to thier right hand man and expected him to just grow up and notneed
>them anymore.I have to wonder though how much of this is truly the natural order of
things. It seems that whenever I've traveled to places where people are
still living the way many of our ancestors did, you see kids being very
independent and responsible for *so much*. It was interesting in Africa to
see 6 year old boys out in the field tending herds of goats, and only
slightly older boys with herds of cattle. And girls of this age are carrying
around their smaller siblings on their back, or pounding corn, or whatever.
I think our conception of childhood is largely a modern fabrication. Most
kids around the world don't get this amazing 18 year period to just be kids.
They have big responsbilities at a very young age, and are expected to do a
large part of the family work as soon as they're able. In many cultures,
when a child is weaned they move out into the world of big people. Those
first 4 - 7 years are all that they get to really *just* be a kid. In some
cultures if they're males they never do speak directly to their mothers
again after they're weaned.
Now all that being said, I'm not going to enslave my oldest or think he
ought to grow up too soon or tell him he can't speak to me. For good or bad,
we're living in the culture we are right now, and I value the fact that I
can give my kids the gift of a childhood that's relatively free from
concern. There's nothing like the day we spent yesterday, glorious sunshine
and we're out camping. The kids are playing with their friends in the mud
and sand and a creek and it's a school day in the middle of a workweek so
the campground is empty!
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/03 9:46:44 AM, diamondair@... writes:
<< It seems that whenever I've traveled to places where people are
still living the way many of our ancestors did, you see kids being very
independent and responsible for *so much*. It was interesting in Africa to
see 6 year old boys out in the field tending herds of goats, and only
slightly older boys with herds of cattle. >>
In cultures where they expect adults to still just be tending goats, that
child might be sufficiently prepared for adult life.
The more complex the culture, the longer childhood needs to be.
In a world in which a child might need to be a personnel manager, a systems
analyst or a jet pilot, he needs to have a greater range of experience,
thought, and play than if they're in a very localized agrarian or animal-based
culture.
<< Most
kids around the world don't get this amazing 18 year period to just be kids.>>
I don't thin our kids are "just being kids."
I know mine, at 16, 14 and 11 are practicing for personnel management and
systems analysis!!
Last night and this morning all three have done their part in trying to move
an orc ball game back up half an hour so Holly and two other homeschooled kids
can get to a bowling session, AND moving it to a different park (Holly
realized this part) because orc ball is usually on Sundays, but this week because
there's an out of town visitor they want to do it Friday, but Friday there's a
homeschooling meeting at that park. Because the orc-ball crowd is made up of
mostly homeschooled kids, if they go where there's homeschool get-together,
they will be seen as homeschoolers doing something fun. Either they let
everyone participate (though it's dangerous and most players are teens, and all the
players have experience and know the many rules) OR they say no, which won't
go over well. So they've contacted everyone necessary for moving it to
another park. Holly has made the call she needs to make to say she might not be at
bowling or might be late.
I helped on the side with logistics they were missing, but the awareness and
footwork was all theirs.
If kids are given the opportunity to really affect their lives and others,
the "just" being a kid is also just being human, and they ease into adult
responsibilities gradually instead of being thrust into adulthood one day on a
birthday.
Sandra
<< It seems that whenever I've traveled to places where people are
still living the way many of our ancestors did, you see kids being very
independent and responsible for *so much*. It was interesting in Africa to
see 6 year old boys out in the field tending herds of goats, and only
slightly older boys with herds of cattle. >>
In cultures where they expect adults to still just be tending goats, that
child might be sufficiently prepared for adult life.
The more complex the culture, the longer childhood needs to be.
In a world in which a child might need to be a personnel manager, a systems
analyst or a jet pilot, he needs to have a greater range of experience,
thought, and play than if they're in a very localized agrarian or animal-based
culture.
<< Most
kids around the world don't get this amazing 18 year period to just be kids.>>
I don't thin our kids are "just being kids."
I know mine, at 16, 14 and 11 are practicing for personnel management and
systems analysis!!
Last night and this morning all three have done their part in trying to move
an orc ball game back up half an hour so Holly and two other homeschooled kids
can get to a bowling session, AND moving it to a different park (Holly
realized this part) because orc ball is usually on Sundays, but this week because
there's an out of town visitor they want to do it Friday, but Friday there's a
homeschooling meeting at that park. Because the orc-ball crowd is made up of
mostly homeschooled kids, if they go where there's homeschool get-together,
they will be seen as homeschoolers doing something fun. Either they let
everyone participate (though it's dangerous and most players are teens, and all the
players have experience and know the many rules) OR they say no, which won't
go over well. So they've contacted everyone necessary for moving it to
another park. Holly has made the call she needs to make to say she might not be at
bowling or might be late.
I helped on the side with logistics they were missing, but the awareness and
footwork was all theirs.
If kids are given the opportunity to really affect their lives and others,
the "just" being a kid is also just being human, and they ease into adult
responsibilities gradually instead of being thrust into adulthood one day on a
birthday.
Sandra
Backstrom kelli
Maybe it is just me but I am 30 and for the most part (albeit I have a tremendous amount of adult responsibilities) my most cherished times are when I can "be a kid" with my kids on the floor, at the park ect. Childhood was not long enough for me. I'm going back.... Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 5/30/03 9:46:44 AM, diamondair@... writes:
<< It seems that whenever I've traveled to places where people are
still living the way many of our ancestors did, you see kids being very
independent and responsible for *so much*. It was interesting in Africa to
see 6 year old boys out in the field tending herds of goats, and only
slightly older boys with herds of cattle. >>
In cultures where they expect adults to still just be tending goats, that
child might be sufficiently prepared for adult life.
The more complex the culture, the longer childhood needs to be.
In a world in which a child might need to be a personnel manager, a systems
analyst or a jet pilot, he needs to have a greater range of experience,
thought, and play than if they're in a very localized agrarian or animal-based
culture.
<< Most
kids around the world don't get this amazing 18 year period to just be kids.>>
I don't thin our kids are "just being kids."
I know mine, at 16, 14 and 11 are practicing for personnel management and
systems analysis!!
Last night and this morning all three have done their part in trying to move
an orc ball game back up half an hour so Holly and two other homeschooled kids
can get to a bowling session, AND moving it to a different park (Holly
realized this part) because orc ball is usually on Sundays, but this week because
there's an out of town visitor they want to do it Friday, but Friday there's a
homeschooling meeting at that park. Because the orc-ball crowd is made up of
mostly homeschooled kids, if they go where there's homeschool get-together,
they will be seen as homeschoolers doing something fun. Either they let
everyone participate (though it's dangerous and most players are teens, and all the
players have experience and know the many rules) OR they say no, which won't
go over well. So they've contacted everyone necessary for moving it to
another park. Holly has made the call she needs to make to say she might not be at
bowling or might be late.
I helped on the side with logistics they were missing, but the awareness and
footwork was all theirs.
If kids are given the opportunity to really affect their lives and others,
the "just" being a kid is also just being human, and they ease into adult
responsibilities gradually instead of being thrust into adulthood one day on a
birthday.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 5/30/03 9:46:44 AM, diamondair@... writes:
<< It seems that whenever I've traveled to places where people are
still living the way many of our ancestors did, you see kids being very
independent and responsible for *so much*. It was interesting in Africa to
see 6 year old boys out in the field tending herds of goats, and only
slightly older boys with herds of cattle. >>
In cultures where they expect adults to still just be tending goats, that
child might be sufficiently prepared for adult life.
The more complex the culture, the longer childhood needs to be.
In a world in which a child might need to be a personnel manager, a systems
analyst or a jet pilot, he needs to have a greater range of experience,
thought, and play than if they're in a very localized agrarian or animal-based
culture.
<< Most
kids around the world don't get this amazing 18 year period to just be kids.>>
I don't thin our kids are "just being kids."
I know mine, at 16, 14 and 11 are practicing for personnel management and
systems analysis!!
Last night and this morning all three have done their part in trying to move
an orc ball game back up half an hour so Holly and two other homeschooled kids
can get to a bowling session, AND moving it to a different park (Holly
realized this part) because orc ball is usually on Sundays, but this week because
there's an out of town visitor they want to do it Friday, but Friday there's a
homeschooling meeting at that park. Because the orc-ball crowd is made up of
mostly homeschooled kids, if they go where there's homeschool get-together,
they will be seen as homeschoolers doing something fun. Either they let
everyone participate (though it's dangerous and most players are teens, and all the
players have experience and know the many rules) OR they say no, which won't
go over well. So they've contacted everyone necessary for moving it to
another park. Holly has made the call she needs to make to say she might not be at
bowling or might be late.
I helped on the side with logistics they were missing, but the awareness and
footwork was all theirs.
If kids are given the opportunity to really affect their lives and others,
the "just" being a kid is also just being human, and they ease into adult
responsibilities gradually instead of being thrust into adulthood one day on a
birthday.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
liza sabater
On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 13:05 America/New_York, SandraDodd@...
wrote:
country have so much more materially than most people around the world.
The US is probably the only country in the world where poor people are
obese. Poverty elsewhere is not just scarcity of amenities or income
but scarcity of food, education and health care. And security as is the
case of not just most African countries but all the third world. Only
those with money can afford to pay their own police force (aka security
guards with real weapons and license to kill).
If you are really poor you learn early on how to not just tend cattle
but tend to yourself --with food, clothes and plain old hustle. Where
there is extreme poverty there is rarely childhood beyond the age of
three.
Bummed,
Liza
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wrote:
> The more complex the culture, the longer childhood needs to be.I think it has more to do with economics --even poor people in this
country have so much more materially than most people around the world.
The US is probably the only country in the world where poor people are
obese. Poverty elsewhere is not just scarcity of amenities or income
but scarcity of food, education and health care. And security as is the
case of not just most African countries but all the third world. Only
those with money can afford to pay their own police force (aka security
guards with real weapons and license to kill).
If you are really poor you learn early on how to not just tend cattle
but tend to yourself --with food, clothes and plain old hustle. Where
there is extreme poverty there is rarely childhood beyond the age of
three.
Bummed,
Liza
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]