[email protected]

In a message dated 5/27/2003 11:23:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
>
> Read the (short, easy, painless) article there, and follow some of the
> links,
> too.
>
> Sandra

Sandra,

Thank you for posting this page again. I have it saved but I forget it is
there. I forwarded it on to a friend who is beginning to HS. I think she wants to
Unschool but is buying a few subjects. : / I keep explaining the Deschooling
and she is convinced it will happen over the summer.
I almost feel like she doesn't think that our Unschooling is learning. Or
that im dumbing my kids but not using anything.
I caught myself flipping through a "complete curriculum" the other day at the
store. I didn't plan on buying it but it was reassuring to look in it and
know that the 11 yr. old already knows all the junk in it from living. I guess
some of the conversations are rubbing off on me: /
Or maybe she thinks this way because of the below paragraph. I don't speak
my concerns to her about this because I don't think it will help her along the
way.

My kids pick at each other so much that I worry about what I am doing wrong
as far as Unschooling goes. The competition between the two is maddening. They
are 3 . 5 and 11. My 11 yr. old was in school for 3 . 5 years and some of
the issues where that he was always a target. Why is he doing this at home if he
hated it so much?

This is major concern in our home that causes so much parental involvement.
What I mean is I know how we deal with it is no good. I do try to show him the
flip side, how would he like it if someone said that to him and sending him
to his room. Its just non stop he comes into a room and jumps on the couch or
bed while she is involved in something or makes teasing comments like "I have
an Ice Cream" or "Cassidy look what I have Na na na na bo bo" Then she
screams, wakes the baby its a mess..........
He is fine with other kids it's just his sister.
The 3 . 5 yr. old isn't as un-knowledgable as he thinks. She has him figured
out and knows what he is doing is wrong. He at times spells something to her
and she knows what he has spelled. So I guess I dont look at her as 3 . 5 but
more intellectually as a 5 or 6 yr. old. She can tell time, spell certain
words and can read me like a book.

I may be answering my own question but did we (DH and I) cause this? I have
tried to be fair in what and when I speak to each child and how far I let
things go. When they begin to hit and hurt each other I step in.

Anyone see this in their home and then it went away?
Suggestions?

Laura D


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/27/03 12:13:50 PM, HMSL2@... writes:

<< I do try to show him the
flip side, how would he like it if someone said that to him and sending him
to his room. >>

Showing the flip side is sometimes just being the kind of mean you don't want
them to be.

<<I have
tried to be fair in what and when I speak to each child and how far I let
things go. When they begin to hit and hurt each other I step in. >>

I wouldn't wait until they begin to hit and "hurt," because it hurts before
the hitting starts.

I would talk to the older one, say it's NOT okay, and it's not going to
become okay, for him to pick on a little child. I've told each of my kids that
I consider a big part of my job keeping them safe and comfortable in their own
home, but that I'm going to protect their siblings' peace and comfort just as
much, and that if someone from outside our family was abusive or violent I
would throw them out or call the police.

Sandra

Backstrom kelli

Its such a hard balance for me with my little ones because my almost three year old tries to hug her 6 month old sister she practically tackles her and then looks so hurt when I try to explain to her that she could try a gentler approach, ... oh and nursing, forget it! Every time I go to nurse little Nora, Sadie is at her head trying to poke her. Oh, my patience!! I just try not to make Sadie feel badly while keeping Nora safe and keep a good sense of humor about myself:) Good luck, Kelli

SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 5/27/03 12:13:50 PM, HMSL2@... writes:

<< I do try to show him the
flip side, how would he like it if someone said that to him and sending him
to his room. >>

Showing the flip side is sometimes just being the kind of mean you don't want
them to be.

<<I have
tried to be fair in what and when I speak to each child and how far I let
things go. When they begin to hit and hurt each other I step in. >>

I wouldn't wait until they begin to hit and "hurt," because it hurts before
the hitting starts.

I would talk to the older one, say it's NOT okay, and it's not going to
become okay, for him to pick on a little child. I've told each of my kids that
I consider a big part of my job keeping them safe and comfortable in their own
home, but that I'm going to protect their siblings' peace and comfort just as
much, and that if someone from outside our family was abusive or violent I
would throw them out or call the police.

Sandra

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/27/2003 3:49:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> In a message dated 5/27/03 12:13:50 PM, HMSL2@... writes:
>
> << I do try to show him the
> flip side, how would he like it if someone said that to him and sending him
> to his room. >>
>
> Showing the flip side is sometimes just being the kind of mean you don't
> want
> them to be.
>
> <<I
> tried to be fair in what and when I speak to each child and how far I let
> things go. When they begin to hit and hurt each other I step in. >>
>
> I wouldn't wait until they begin to hit and "hurt," because it hurts before
> the hitting starts.
>
> I would talk to the older one, say it's NOT okay, and it's not going to
> become okay, for him to pick on a little child. I've told each of my kids
> that
> I consider a big part of my job keeping them safe and comfortable in their
> own
> home, but that I'm going to protect their siblings' peace and comfort just
> as
> much, and that if someone from outside our family was abusive or violent I
> would throw them out or call the police.
>
> Sandra

Thank you Sandra,

I think most of the time I know in my gut what needs to be done/what I should
address and what not. I think I get into the thinking that it will work
against our Unschooling.
What I mean is that I paint a picture in my mind of what someone or a group
looks like. I almost make it look super human. For instance I may think
Unschoolers dont have sibling issues, spouse disagreements, untidy homes and so on.
The only way I know is to read the emails.
I dont know of more than a couple total Unschoolers here. Here some say
unschooling but the fact is that they still schedule music, swimming or some kind
of class for their kids.

So I guess I take a person or a group I respect hold them up high and follow
as much as I can. I may take some or all whatever applies to my family that
isn't working for us at the time.

I love my kids and I want to do right by them. I also know that Nicholas is 1
and I do not want to go though all the bickering again.

My son just came down and gave me a kiss and a hug (he does every night).
Kinda makes all the issues of the day drift away : )

Laura D


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/27/2003 9:59:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellibac@... writes:

> Its such a hard balance for me with my little ones because my almost three
> year old tries to hug her 6 month old sister she practically tackles her and
> then looks so hurt when I try to explain to her that she could try a gentler
> approach, ... oh and nursing, forget it! Every time I go to nurse little
> Nora, Sadie is at her head trying to poke her. Oh, my patience!! I just try not
> to make Sadie feel badly while keeping Nora safe and keep a good sense of
> humor about myself:) Good luck, Kelli

You must have about the same gap between the 6 mo and the 3 as I did. I dont
think we had that too much. Cassidy loved when I nursed as she was able to be
on the bed/chair with me. She would often talk to him or rub his head. She
is always with me still and he is 1 on Wed.
If I put him to bed before she is able to go through her kiss hug routine she
freaks out until I let her go in. If he wakes during the day she asks if she
can go see him while I prepare his cup or bottle.

Does she have her own baby to feed? Can you pump any so she can feed her
also?
It does get better. Cassidy and Nicholas get along very well. I only wish
she and the oldest got along like that.
They do have their moments:
Last night they washed dishes and played in the water together. (11 & 3.5) I
just listened in it was great.

Laura D



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<For instance I may think Unschoolers dont have sibling issues, spouse
disagreements, untidy homes and so on. >>

My husband and I disagree about things, but we very rarely get really angry.
We've learned over the years how and when to walk away and cool off. We
try, too, to make light of things. Tonight we were in the van with Marty for
over an hour, and twice I thought he was too close to another car and I said
something. His eyesight's not as good as it used to be. He wasn't appreciating
me criticizing his driving, but we made politely light and funny as much as we
could.

Our house is particularly messy lately. Five days worth of a medieval camp
for twelve people got rained on and THEN packed up and unloaded into my house.
And my foot hurts. So I'm doing a few loads of laundry a day, and a couple
of loads of dishes a day. Even stuff that wasn't worn or used has to be washed
because of sand and dust realities in New Mexico.

<<I dont know of more than a couple total Unschoolers here. Here some say
unschooling but the fact is that they still schedule music, swimming or some
kind
of class for their kids. >>

If people are going to swim regularly in a public pool, that has to be
scheduled, pretty much. Same with group music or lessons. Kirby goes to karate
twice a week. Marty's doing a junior police academy next week, every day all
day for five days. Those things were scheduled.

Our sibling issues are not bad but it took a lot of polishing and reminding
and more reminding.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/27/2003 11:01:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

>
> <<For instance I may think Unschoolers dont have sibling issues, spouse
> disagreements, untidy homes and so on. >>
>
> My husband and I disagree about things, but we very rarely get really angry.
>
> We've learned over the years how and when to walk away and cool off. We
> try, too, to make light of things. Tonight we were in the van with Marty
> for
> over an hour, and twice I thought he was too close to another car and I said
>
> something. His eyesight's not as good as it used to be. He wasn't
> appreciating
> me criticizing his driving, but we made politely light and funny as much as
> we
> could.
>
> Our house is particularly messy lately. Five days worth of a medieval camp
> for twelve people got rained on and THEN packed up and unloaded into my
> house.
> And my foot hurts. So I'm doing a few loads of laundry a day, and a couple
> of loads of dishes a day. Even stuff that wasn't worn or used has to be
> washed
> because of sand and dust realities in New Mexico.
>
> <<I
> unschooling but the fact is that they still schedule music, swimming or some
>
> kind
> of class for their kids. >>
>
> If people are going to swim regularly in a public pool, that has to be
> scheduled, pretty much. Same with group music or lessons. Kirby goes to
> karate
> twice a week. Marty's doing a junior police academy next week, every day
> all
> day for five days. Those things were scheduled.
>
> Our sibling issues are not bad but it took a lot of polishing and reminding
> and more reminding.
>
> Sandra

Thank you again Sandra,

It does help to see examples. I not sure what kind of a learner I am but I
would say the more actual hands on experiences I see the better I grasp it all.

Laura D


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michele Evard

At 06:58 PM 5/27/2003 -0700, Backstrom kelli wrote:
>Its such a hard balance for me with my little ones because my almost three
>year old tries to hug her 6 month old sister she practically tackles her
>and then looks so hurt when I try to explain to her that she could try a
>gentler approach, ...

we have a similar age difference; andre was 2 years 4 months old when his
sisters were born.

does the tackle-hug happen when the little one is on the floor? that
always seemed awkward to me, because the older child has to get to the
younger's level, and it's easy to topple over.

when rose & joelle were about that age & on the floor, i'd suggest that
andre show them toys or sing to them. i tried to explain that this was
their play time, and they'd love to have cuddle time later. that seemed to
help.

we made sure andre special hugging time with each of his sisters, as well
as alone with us. he always loved what he called 'family hugs' (mommy,
daddy & andre before the girls were born), so we did our best to include
everyone in some hugs.

(of course, i was in a sleep-deprived fog most of the time, so i hope i'm
remembering correctly!)

>oh and nursing, forget it! Every time I go to nurse little Nora, Sadie is
>at her head trying to poke her. Oh, my patience!!

is sadie exploring nora's face and/or reactions? we had some of
that. when i was just nursing one baby, i could have andre on the side of
me where her feet were, so he couldn't reach her face, and we'd read or
talk or sing or make funny faces... when double nursing, it was harder to
get him cuddled in too, but some of the other things still worked. i seem
to recall having him show me parts of his own face & body, and point to
mine, as well. and asking him if he wanted to pat the girls' faces & heads
gently when they weren't nursing.

how does nora react? my kids all went through a stage around 4-6 months
old where they were easily distracted while nursing. it made each session
take longer & sometimes frustrating to me. on again, off again, etc. i
remember trying to explain that to him, e.g. the girls will be done sooner
if we don't play with them while they nurse. i can't remember when it
worked. ;-)

>I just try not to make Sadie feel badly while keeping Nora safe and keep a
>good sense of humor about myself:)

you'll make it!

michele

unolist

--- In [email protected], HMSL2@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/27/2003 9:59:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> kellibac@y... writes:
>
> > Its such a hard balance for me with my little ones because my
almost three
> > year old tries to hug her 6 month old sister>

> You must have about the same gap between the 6 mo and the 3 as I
did. I dont
> think we had that too much. Cassidy loved when I nursed as she was
able to be
> on the bed/chair with me. She would often talk to him or rub his
head.

same age span here, but i tandem-nursed them! Boy am I glad that only
lasted a year!

ashlyn was almost two when christian was born, and she weaned when
she was almost three. he is almost two, i hope he stops soon!

Ang

Backstrom kelli

your kids are the same span as mine! I have all girls, 10.5, almost three and 6 months and the funniest thing to me is the fights my three year old and ten year old have! What a surpise that was to me! I thought for sure that they would have too far of a span to really fight about anything. My dh and I try hard not to laugh as my ten year old and three year old try to have a serious debate. I am so grateful for my ten year old though. She is a huge help with them both. Last night I cooked for ten and my dd entertained the little ones for me. What a blessing to have her in my life and theirs. I told my dh this morning what a great mother she would be some day... maybe I shoudl tell her this later:) Anyhow, that toddler, oh she will be a fabulous adult... but for now, I just practice patience, patience, patience. She is so strong willed. I will try the bottle idea. My dh gives her a bottle on tues and thurs mornings while I work, that would be fun for Sadie. Kelli

HMSL2@... wrote:In a message dated 5/27/2003 9:59:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellibac@... writes:

> Its such a hard balance for me with my little ones because my almost three
> year old tries to hug her 6 month old sister she practically tackles her and
> then looks so hurt when I try to explain to her that she could try a gentler
> approach, ... oh and nursing, forget it! Every time I go to nurse little
> Nora, Sadie is at her head trying to poke her. Oh, my patience!! I just try not
> to make Sadie feel badly while keeping Nora safe and keep a good sense of
> humor about myself:) Good luck, Kelli

You must have about the same gap between the 6 mo and the 3 as I did. I dont
think we had that too much. Cassidy loved when I nursed as she was able to be
on the bed/chair with me. She would often talk to him or rub his head. She
is always with me still and he is 1 on Wed.
If I put him to bed before she is able to go through her kiss hug routine she
freaks out until I let her go in. If he wakes during the day she asks if she
can go see him while I prepare his cup or bottle.

Does she have her own baby to feed? Can you pump any so she can feed her
also?
It does get better. Cassidy and Nicholas get along very well. I only wish
she and the oldest got along like that.
They do have their moments:
Last night they washed dishes and played in the water together. (11 & 3.5) I
just listened in it was great.

Laura D



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Im glad im not the only one!
I too thought the 11 and 3 yr. old would get along but they often do not. My
11 yr. old is a boy and does help a lot especially around dinner and things
like holding the baby so I can get a bottle or put my coat on.
The 3 yr. old will be 4 in October. She is a big helper also. I see such a
large difference between the oldest and middle child. She is an independent
player and he has more of a difficult time with that. My guess is it si from
being in school. Wish I could turn back time and do it right.
I have watched the two of them the past couple days and I have to say he does
try to help her with things but she just screams. I think she knows she can
control situations by screaming cuz we all let her have her way so she doesn't
wake the baby. That in it self has created a big screamer. Just have to
reverse it now.

Laura D

In a message dated 5/29/2003 9:33:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kellibac@... writes:

>
>
> your kids are the same span as mine! I have all girls, 10.5, almost three
> and 6 months and the funniest thing to me is the fights my three year old and
> ten year old have! What a surpise that was to me! I thought for sure that they
> would have too far of a span to really fight about anything. My dh and I try
> hard not to laugh as my ten year old and three year old try to have a
> serious debate. I am so grateful for my ten year old though. She is a huge help
> with them both. Last night I cooked for ten and my dd entertained the little
> ones for me. What a blessing to have her in my life and theirs. I told my dh
> this morning what a great mother she would be some day... maybe I shoudl tell
> her this later:) Anyhow, that toddler, oh she will be a fabulous adult... but
> for now, I just practice patience, patience, patience. She is so strong
> willed. I will try the bottle idea. My dh gives her a bottle on tues and thurs
> mornings while I work, that would be fun for Sadie. Kelli



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]