susan

my son grew really fast then just stopped at around 4 months.  he grew but didn't gain any weight so we started feeding him and he loved it.  we gave him oats, rice  and bananas and later added veggies etc. mixed it all with breastmilk.  he was happy and has never had alleges.  he's been sick a few time ( pretty much isolated to when we've traveled) but never for very long and not bad enough to see a dr.  i wouldn't recommend feeding this early but i would if your baby is hungry.  maybe you can take something to increase your milk - i didn't try this but if i had it to do over again i would try this first.

susun weed (from wise woman herbal for childbearing years) recommends:
1) comfrey, raspberry leaf, nettles, alfalfa, or red clover  these are rich in minerals and encourage  and increase milk flow.   she says to rotate, using each one for one week.
2) apricots, asparagus, green beans, carrots, sweet potatoes, peas, pecans, and all leafy greens such as beet greens, parsley, watercress, and dandelion leaves are helpful.
3) blessed thistle leaves (cnicus benedictus) tincture 20 drops 2-4x/day also helps mental state
4) borage leaves (borago officinalis) 1/2 c. of infusion (for leaves: 2 handfuls of cut-up leaves in 1qt jar fill w/ boiling water and steep cover for 4 hrs) at each feeding insures an abundant supply, also works as a laxative and soothes jangled nerves
5) fennel/barley water soak 1/2c barely in 3c water over night or boil it for 25 mins.  pour 1c over 1tsp fennel steep no longer than 30 mins.  increases milk, settles digestion of both mother and babe.
6) hops flower this is great for twins she say it doesn't taste very good that drink beer is a taster way.  she also recommends a good chemical-free and alcohol frees variety.
7) a brew of 1oz blessed thistle or borage leaves (increase flow), 1oz raspberry or nettle leaves (supply of minerals & vits) with 1tsp of any one of these seeds: anise, cumin, fennel, coriander, dill (increase production & tone digestive system) - put the leaves in 1/2gal jar cover w/boiling water, cap it and let it steep over night. strain and ref.  when you're ready to nurse boil 1c and pour over the seed of choice drink after 5min or more   drink freely up to 2 qts/day if desired

good luck with your decision

-susan


Shimokawa Family

Mook never seemed interested in solids until he was six months, and
wasn't eating them regularly until almost 12 months. He weaned himself
at 2 and almost four months. Rachel is not even four months old, and
seems interested in eating solids - I mean she watches every spoonful I
eat, and opens her mouth and "chews" whener I put anything in my mouth
(or she sees anyone else eating). She is VERY big - 75 cm and almost 10
kg. I'm kind of thinking she may need something else. So when she
seems so anxious to eat, we feed her spoonfuls (spoonsful?)of water. DH
suggested giving her watered down coconut milk. I don't want to feed
her prepared baby food - fruit juices, or tomato juice, with added sugar
and/or salt, and sometimes flavoring. With Mook, it was so easy. He
just ate the
salt-free, sugar-free version of what we were eating (I don't use much
salt, and almost never use sugar anyway). Suggestions?

Thanks.

Melanie in Japan

April

Can you get a hold of a baby food grinder or even a blender would work. I
didn't use baby food I made my own with a baby food grinder. I started with
bananas and other fruit, then I made some with cooked veggies and rice, but
they were soon on what we ate, just ground up.
April
-----Original Message-----
From: Shimokawa Family [mailto:sfamily@...]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 6:28 AM
To: list
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] baby's first solids (need help)

From: Shimokawa Family <sfamily@...>

Mook never seemed interested in solids until he was six months, and
wasn't eating them regularly until almost 12 months. He weaned himself
at 2 and almost four months. Rachel is not even four months old, and
seems interested in eating solids - I mean she watches every spoonful I
eat, and opens her mouth and "chews" whener I put anything in my mouth
(or she sees anyone else eating). She is VERY big - 75 cm and almost 10
kg. I'm kind of thinking she may need something else. So when she
seems so anxious to eat, we feed her spoonfuls (spoonsful?)of water. DH
suggested giving her watered down coconut milk. I don't want to feed
her prepared baby food - fruit juices, or tomato juice, with added sugar
and/or salt, and sometimes flavoring. With Mook, it was so easy. He
just ate the
salt-free, sugar-free version of what we were eating (I don't use much
salt, and almost never use sugar anyway). Suggestions?

Thanks.

Melanie in Japan

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K WORTHEN

Melanie,
My suggestion is to do nothing. I know it can be frustrating
having an infant that's hungry all the time, but she's still sooooo young.
I'm sure you're aware that starting solids too soon can have many
undesirable effects, including allergic reactions, tummy troubles, etc. The
fact that she's so big already suggests that she's getting all she needs
from breastmilk. Starting solids now could also hinder your nursing
relationship. Don't forget, the introduction to solids is the first step to
weaning. You could consult LLL's womanly art of Breastfeeding for more
suggestions. Also, just an FYI coconuts can be a highly allergic food, so
I'd definatly forego the milk idea. Good Luck.
Amy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shimokawa Family" <sfamily@...>
To: "list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 6:28 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] baby's first solids (need help)


> From: Shimokawa Family <sfamily@...>
>
> Mook never seemed interested in solids until he was six months, and
> wasn't eating them regularly until almost 12 months. He weaned himself
> at 2 and almost four months. Rachel is not even four months old, and
> seems interested in eating solids - I mean she watches every spoonful I
> eat, and opens her mouth and "chews" whener I put anything in my mouth
> (or she sees anyone else eating). She is VERY big - 75 cm and almost 10
> kg. I'm kind of thinking she may need something else. So when she
> seems so anxious to eat, we feed her spoonfuls (spoonsful?)of water. DH
> suggested giving her watered down coconut milk. I don't want to feed
> her prepared baby food - fruit juices, or tomato juice, with added sugar
> and/or salt, and sometimes flavoring. With Mook, it was so easy. He
> just ate the
> salt-free, sugar-free version of what we were eating (I don't use much
> salt, and almost never use sugar anyway). Suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Melanie in Japan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
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>
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K WORTHEN

Susan,
           What a great reply to Melanie's post. I've always been interested in herbal healing and breastfeeding is my other topic of passion. I'm starting my application to become an LLL leader, so I'll save your post to pass along to other moms. I know increasing milk supply is a commonly asked queston. Thanks for the info.
Amy
----- Original Message -----
From: susan
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] baby's first solids (need help)

From: susan <fxfireob@...>

my son grew really fast then just stopped at around 4 months.  he grew but didn't gain any weight so we started feeding him and he loved it.  we gave him oats, rice  and bananas and later added veggies etc. mixed it all with breastmilk.  he was happy and has never had alleges.  he's been sick a few time ( pretty much isolated to when we've traveled) but never for very long and not bad enough to see a dr.  i wouldn't recommend feeding this early but i would if your baby is hungry.  maybe you can take something to increase your milk - i didn't try this but if i had it to do over again i would try this first.

susun weed (from wise woman herbal for childbearing years) recommends:
1) comfrey, raspberry leaf, nettles, alfalfa, or red clover  these are rich in minerals and encourage  and increase milk flow.   she says to rotate, using each one for one week.
2) apricots, asparagus, green beans, carrots, sweet potatoes, peas, pecans, and all leafy greens such as beet greens, parsley, watercress, and dandelion leaves are helpful.
3) blessed thistle leaves (cnicus benedictus) tincture 20 drops 2-4x/day also helps mental state
4) borage leaves (borago officinalis) 1/2 c. of infusion (for leaves: 2 handfuls of cut-up leaves in 1qt jar fill w/ boiling water and steep cover for 4 hrs) at each feeding insures an abundant supply, also works as a laxative and soothes jangled nerves
5) fennel/barley water soak 1/2c barely in 3c water over night or boil it for 25 mins.  pour 1c over 1tsp fennel steep no longer than 30 mins.  increases milk, settles digestion of both mother and babe.
6) hops flower this is great for twins she say it doesn't taste very good that drink beer is a taster way.  she also recommends a good chemical-free and alcohol frees variety.
7) a brew of 1oz blessed thistle or borage leaves (increase flow), 1oz raspberry or nettle leaves (supply of minerals & vits) with 1tsp of any one of these seeds: anise, cumin, fennel, coriander, dill (increase production & tone digestive system) - put the leaves in 1/2gal jar cover w/boiling water, cap it and let it steep over night. strain and ref.  when you're ready to nurse boil 1c and pour over the seed of choice drink after 5min or more   drink freely up to 2 qts/day if desired

good luck with your decision

-susan


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[email protected]

In a message dated 03/10/2000 3:33:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sfamily@... writes:

<< Rachel is not even four months old, and
seems interested in eating solids - I mean she watches every spoonful I
eat, and opens her mouth and "chews" whener I put anything in my mouth
(or she sees anyone else eating). She is VERY big - 75 cm and almost 10
kg. I'm kind of thinking she may need something else. So when she
seems so anxious to eat, we feed her spoonfuls (spoonsful?)of water >>

I would really hold off longer if you can. Dr. George Wootan (can't think
of the name of his book right now) says that often babies are just imitating
and socializing when it comes to the dinner table. They aren't really hungry.
In fact (my personal opinion), I don't think that they even "know" that eating
food fills their tummy full. I say this from personal experience because when
I got pregnant with my dd who was solely breastfeeding, my milk supply
dwindled and she wouldn't eat food, becuase she wanted to nurse and
had not made the connection that food would satisfy her hunger. Anyhow,
Dr. Wootan goes on to say that instead of giving the social baby food
find small mouthing toys (not chokable of course) that come out only at
dinner table time. Other signs to watch for readiness would be ability to
sit up on their own and hold their own food (ie you don't feed them, they
should be able to grasp the food and feed themselves. When you are
ready to feed her solids try real food, meaning mashed avocados (my
babies and kids love avocados) bananas, knawing on carrots before
their teeth come in, stuff like that. Anyhow, just some of my thoughts.
Kathy

dawn

> I would really hold off longer if you can. Dr. George Wootan (can't think
> of the name of his book right now) says that often babies are just imitating

_Tale Charge of Your Child's Health_

> had not made the connection that food would satisfy her hunger. Anyhow,
> Dr. Wootan goes on to say that instead of giving the social baby food
> find small mouthing toys (not chokable of course) that come out only at
> dinner table time. Other signs to watch for readiness would be ability to
> sit up on their own and hold their own food (ie you don't feed them, they
> should be able to grasp the food and feed themselves. When you are
> ready to feed her solids try real food, meaning mashed avocados (my
> babies and kids love avocados) bananas, knawing on carrots before
> their teeth come in, stuff like that. Anyhow, just some of my thoughts.

We were very interested in doing what we could to avoid allergies with our
second child, so we followed Wootan's advice. It worked, more or less. I
tried to also work his sleeps around family meals so we didn't have to
engage in as much slight of hand for a month or so. At the same time, he
would gaze longinly and with much interest at *anything* people
had....bottles of beer, shards of glass, cigarettes held by strangers....I
never assumed he was indicating he wanted those things. For personal
reasons, we held off on solids for 18 months. AFter about month 8 or so,
he really no longer showed much interest in eating. And after a very slow
start at 18mos, he eats well, heartily, and enthusiastically at 4.5.

d

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/11/00 7:51:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, dawn@...
writes:

<< Dr. Wootan goes on to say that instead of giving the social baby food
> find small mouthing toys (not chokable of course) that come out only at
> dinner table time. >>

This is what we do with our 7 month old son. He has some favorite teethers,
and also some cute Fisher Price Activity Bowls, and he enjoys playing with
his little bowls and spoon while watching us eat. My son would eat dirt or
rocks or dirty diapers if given the chance, so I don't worry about the fact
that he seems to "want" what we are eating. I feel it is best to hold off
solids at least until 6 months. We are waiting a bit longer.

Susan

Shannon CC

dawn wrote:
> At the same time, he
> would gaze longinly and with much interest at *anything* people
> had....bottles of beer, shards of glass, cigarettes held by strangers....I
> never assumed he was indicating he wanted those things.

LOL! IKWYM. My dd does this too. Unfortunately, I think she *does* want
them! LOL! So I'm a mean mommy, but no sweetie, you can't have a
cigarette. But just because a child looks at food (however longingly)
does not mean they are truely ready for it.

Those were good points about readiness. The child should be able to sit
up, hold their head up, and should be reaching for the food and able to
feed themselves. That doesn't mean they need to be able to use utensils,
but if they have to be spoonfed every bite, then they are probably not
ready. And if you spoonfeed them and they spit it out and turn their
heads, this is not a good photo op. This is a sign to stop! Many, many
parents think they have to teach the child to eat and keep shoveling it
in. As with unschooling :-) if they are ready, they don't have to be
"taught". I started dd on solids at 6 m/o. She did not spit out and
loved every bite. However, at 7 m/o she began reaching for food and
feeding herself. In hindsight, I think this is when she was truely ready
(I know better for next time :-)

As for children who "need" solids? Well no, they cannot live on
breastmilk forever. But at this young an age (up to well into the second
year for some babies) they do not need solids. Breastmilk has everything
they need - including fat for growth. It is very unlikely that a very
young baby would "need" solids. Perhaps if the breastfeeding
relationship is not healthy. If they are not nursing enuf or if the mom
does not have a good supply (which is extremely rare but does happen).
But if the breastfeeding relationship is healthy, there is no need for a
four month old baby to have solids. I do not mean to offend anyone who
believes their young infant did need solids this early, but before
someone starts their 4 m/o on solids I believe they should look into why
and if it's necessary. Don't just listen to your MIL or your well
meaning ped (the one who had all of 1 hour of bf classes in med school)
:-) Do some research.

Alot of babies go thru growth spurts and slow growth periods too. It's
most common to slow down on growth around 6 m/o, but different babies
are different and can slow down earlier or later. My dd has been a slow
grower since she was born. She grows steadily, but
s...l...o...w...l...y. I was very fortunate in that our ped was a good
one. I was never told to suplement with formula as some of my friends
were. She is healthy, active, and bright. She's just small. But often
people will take slow growth as a sign to supplement with formula or
solids. If the breastfeeding relationship is a healthy one and the baby
is thriving (healthy, active, meeting milestones, gaining, however
slowly) then this is not necessary. All babies are different! Some are
petite little things like my dd, some are big bruisers. We're not all
made from the same mold.

Also, a lot of people erroneously believe they have a low supply or that
the child "needs more than breastmilk" because the baby nurses "too
often". There is no such thing as nursing too often. In some "less
civilized" cultures babies are worn and have 24/7 access to the breast
and often nurse every 15 minutes or so! Of course, in these cultures
they do not have peds telling them that the child needs solids or needs
to be on a schedule. They recognize that it is normal for a baby to eat
this often. In our society, we don't have it as "easy". We have more
belongings. More things to clean (and more emphasis on keeping our stuff
clean). We have jobs. We have television shows we just can't miss. We
have visitors who want to hold the baby. All of these things and more
conspire to make us want easier, more convenient babies. And nursing
every 15 minutes is not convenient. Basically, it's not the baby who has
the "problem". It's us, the parents. Nature prepares a baby for one way
of life. Society demands another.

Getting off my fanatical breastfeeding soapbox now.

In the end, if your child does not have allergies or stomach problems,
then no, starting them on solids early is not going to cause problems
(after that whole thing, I bet you didn't expect me to say that, did
you? :-) It is the ideal to not start them on solids til they are ready,
but while stuffing solids in before they are ready *can* cause problems
(often allergies are discovered and exacerbated this way), it *usually*
does not. I would suggest holding off until the child is truely ready
tho. You are already breastfeeding instead of ff. Holding off on solids
will just add to the good start you are giving your child. Nurse as
often as the child wants. Increase your supply if you think it's
necessary. Anyway, good luck to whoever is wrestling with this decision.

Shannon, Mom to Bridget (Oct.8.98)

dawn

>
> dawn wrote:
> > At the same time, he
> > would gaze longinly and with much interest at *anything* people
> > had....bottles of beer, shards of glass, cigarettes held by strangers....I
> > never assumed he was indicating he wanted those things.
>
> LOL! IKWYM. My dd does this too. Unfortunately, I think she *does* want
> them! LOL! So I'm a mean mommy, but no sweetie, you can't have a
> cigarette. But just because a child looks at food (however longingly)
> does not mean they are truely ready for it.

Actually, I meant "I didn't think he was telling me he *needed* those
things, any more than gazing at food indicated he needed food." Sorry.
It was early.

> In the end, if your child does not have allergies or stomach problems,
> then no, starting them on solids early is not going to cause problems
> (after that whole thing, I bet you didn't expect me to say that, did
> you? :-) It is the ideal to not start them on solids til they are ready,

but lots of these problems never show up until the solids are introduced.
It's a crap shoot, especially prior to 6 or so months, imo.

> does not. I would suggest holding off until the child is truely ready
> tho. You are already breastfeeding instead of ff. Holding off on solids
> will just add to the good start you are giving your child. Nurse as
> often as the child wants. Increase your supply if you think it's
> necessary. Anyway, good luck to whoever is wrestling with this decision.

Yep, I agree. And it's just so much easier when they can do it all
themselves.

dhs

[email protected]

It sounds to me as if she's not really hungry but just imitating you. Maybe you could give her a child sized plastic spoon (not the thin plastic) to "practice" with. I don't think that she would need any food with it, just the opportunity to have a spoon and practice "feeding" herself.

<<Mook never seemed interested in solids until he was six months, and
wasn't eating them regularly until almost 12 months. He weaned himself
at 2 and almost four months. Rachel is not even four months old, and
seems interested in eating solids - I mean she watches every spoonful I
eat, and opens her mouth and "chews" whener I put anything in my mouth
(or she sees anyone else eating). She is VERY big - 75 cm and almost 10
kg. I'm kind of thinking she may need something else. So when she
seems so anxious to eat, we feed her spoonfuls (spoonsful?)of water. DH
suggested giving her watered down coconut milk. I don't want to feed
her prepared baby food - fruit juices, or tomato juice, with added sugar
and/or salt, and sometimes flavoring. With Mook, it was so easy. He
just ate the
salt-free, sugar-free version of what we were eating (I don't use much
salt, and almost never use sugar anyway). Suggestions?




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Tracy Oldfield

just to stick my oar in :-)  dd1 was bottle-fed from 1 month, and event hough she was premmie, I still had mum telling me to get the baby rice etc from about 3&1/2 mo, I managed to hold off until 4&1/2mo, then spent a couple of months blending and mixing from packets until she held her own spoon, and got on with it.  we gave up on bibs pretty quick, the food never seemed to stay on the bib, so it was just an extra thing to wash!  dd2 was copying eating stuff, staring at plates etc from about 5&1/2mo, also she woke whenever we sat down to eat, like she smelled the food, so she often nursed at the table while I ate one-handed.  I held off until she was 6&1/2mo because I knew we were going on holiday and didn't want the faff of babyfood while we were away!  While we were off, with my in-laws, she started sitting in dd1's table-seat, and looking, as my sil put it, like 'has anyone seen my waitress?'  so she got things she could hold, since she wouldn't be spoonfed, and didn't look back.  She's still nursing, and I eagerly await the day when she decides she's had enough, I'd like some time off before I get pregnant again <g>
 
Tracy
 
 
From: heatherhada@...

It sounds to me as if she's not really hungry but just imitating you.  Maybe you could give her a child sized plastic spoon (not the thin plastic) to "practice" with.  I don't think that she would need any food with it, just the opportunity to have a spoon and practice "feeding" herself.