Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 450
susan
my just turned four year old didnt want to go inhi erin,
to the Y with me tonite when i pulled up to go walk on the treadmill for
20min. i had been playing with these thoughts and others and have recently
gotten both the alfie kohn book, and raising your child not by force..., so i
was much slower than usual to use my "lets go in NOW, im going to count to
3-- and you will lose your priveleges, blah blah blah" these unenlightened
tactics sound so pitiful as i type, but in reality helps me get thru the day
bc it brings cooperation. i did end up going this route though, after i
decided that it was important to me to walk, and also, he had no reason that
he or i could find to not go in-- just that he didnt want to.first i would like to say it's not about perfection - doing the right thing in every situation. imo it's about being yourself, being flexible and balancing everyone's needs -not necessarily easy tasks:) but fulfilling nonetheless:) and that it's really ok to mess up and lay the law down but this approach should not be the norm.
when dealing with these kinds of frustrations - first we must remember that we are modeling for our kids "how to handle frustrations' (i have not done a stellar job in this area but am learning and recognizing just how much kids mirror their parents - a concept i feel in crucial to unschooling) and therefore we must try and behave in a way in which we would want our kids to behave. as well as remember that often (because nothing is a hard and fast rule) 'bad' behavior is learned and if it wasn't learned it probably developed because the child hasn't found a way to express her/his self and find a resolution to the frustrations they naturally experience. (this is just my opinion).
the next thing to take into account is the stage the child is at. deepak chopra wrote a book the seven spiritual laws for parents . he says the 'preschool, 2-5 yrs. key words: deserving, exploring, approving' he goes on to say:
'a toddler begins to realize that "i am" can expand to "i can". once the ego realizes this, there is no stopping a two-year-old. he thinks he has the whole world - and certainly everyone in the family - by the tail. "i" is like a power generator just plug it in, and what makes the two's terrible is that the newly born ego surges with power in an undisciplined way. shouting, screaming, running around, wielding the all-powerful no! and generally trying to rule by sheer will - this is exactly what should be going at this stage.
spiritually, the value of the preschool stage is that power is spiritual - only the distortion of power leads to problems. so rather than try to curb your child's rush to power, you need to channel it into tasks and challenges that teach balance. without being balanced the power hunger of a preschooler will run into grief, because her experience is largely the illusion of power. a ranting two-year-old is still a very tiny, vulnerable, uninformed person. in our love for the child, we allow the illusion to exist, because we want her to grow up a strong, capable person who feels up to any challenge that comes along. this sense of self-esteem won't develop if the feeling of being powerful is shut down or repressed at this stage.'
ok i buy this, from my experience my son fits this description. the next question would be: how do you fulfill your own needs? we all know that if we neglect our own needs its not good for anyone! the situation you conveyed is a clash of your needs and his need to express his power -'the all-powerful no!' so how would you keep this "illusion of power" alive but get what you need and deserve? i would implement something along the lines of what harville hendrix and helen hunt talk about in their book (which i've mentioned before) giving the love that heals: a parents guide. they call it 'the process of intentional dialogue - mirroring, validating and emphasizing'. for me this really fits in with my belief that you must balance trust, understanding and authority or you compromise the parent/child relationship.
so i would start out asking why he didn't want to go and repeat his reasons back to him so he knew i understood his position. then i would tell him that i really needed to go and ask him what he would like so that it would make going enjoyable for him. by doing this i believe you begin to foster trust. or i would say we have to go that is not debatable (taking authority) but i would love to do something you would enjoy afterwards and set up a situation were he had some power (a combination of trust and understanding) and at the same time experiences cooperation, which i believe is at the heart of this balance along with compassion . i would tell him how much i appreciated and enjoyed his cooperation and thank him for it.
if he will not cooperate (which happens a lot:) and has a fit, i would not punish him, i would answer the questions i had asked him myself. i would tell him i know you like playing some game (i would stay clear of buy toys or fast food because then you wander into the realm of bribery and are really teaching them how to manipulate instead of cooperate- not a good skill) or convey to him that when you get home he can have some alone uninterrupted time where he can be the all-powerful one calling all the shots. so i think acknowledging the bad behavior is important but assume that he will want to do the right thing he just doesn't know how, yet.
i think one of the biggest mistakes parents and adults in general make is assuming that a child's motives are the same as an adult's. i firmly believe this is not true. the example joshua gave regarding cruelty to animals, i believe a child doesn't necessarily mean to cause harm (there are however always exceptions and that's why parents must know their children) they are merely experiencing the world, learning fantasy and reality, learning about power - 'i can but should i?'. so when we are making decisions regarding children we must make sure we are not viewing them as adults but as children who need adults in their lives so they can safely move toward adulthood and have the experience that will best foster this journey.
well i've gone on long enough and i thinks it's obvious i could and (would be happy to:) keep going:) so if something is unclear i could expand upon it. i hope this is what you where after.
-susan
austin,tx
'unity through diversity'
[email protected]
<< i am very controlling by training and have spent more hours than i
care to count in power struggles and have found that cooperation is easier to
attain when the child/person has the free will and chooses it rather than be
coerced into it >>
this thread has been so interesting, thanks susan and joshua and others. i
like being able to be sparked by something i have read during my day (from
the list) with my children and then play around with the idea while in the
midst of the challenges. my just turned four year old didnt want to go in
to the Y with me tonite when i pulled up to go walk on the treadmill for
20min. i had been playing with these thoughts and others and have recently
gotten both the alfie kohn book, and raising your child not by force..., so i
was much slower than usual to use my "lets go in NOW, im going to count to
3-- and you will lose your priveleges, blah blah blah" these unenlightened
tactics sound so pitiful as i type, but in reality helps me get thru the day
bc it brings cooperation. i did end up going this route though, after i
decided that it was important to me to walk, and also, he had no reason that
he or i could find to not go in-- just that he didnt want to. so i was a
lovely picture entering the nursery with 21mo old clinging to my neck and 4yr
old clinging to my leg. (ive just gone 2wice before and my 4yo is quite
social and usually loves the opp to play, etc) anyway, the redeeming news is
that i was able to take the time to sit down in the nursery and play with
them a good 15min before i left them and they were comfortable by then.
whew. i guess what i am wondering after all that, is how another parent
(susan?) might have handled it. i love all of the ideas in some of these
books but when it comes back to day to day stuff, many times i cant make
reality jive with what i have read. and the more children i have added, the
looser my hold on the idealistic model has had to become....
erin
[email protected]
<<What I mean ... is that I don't know if I want to spend that much time with
them, but if not, why not, and I think it's societal conditioning against
being with one's children, I hope you all understand cos I don't know how
clear I'm being...>>
I think a lot of the social conditioning against moms spending lots of times
with kids came from Freud. And he was wrong about a lot of things. Let's
re-examine this idea of his and get rid of it if it's not valid.
A book that may help in working through this is _The Courage to Raise Good
Men_ by Olga Sivertstein.
Betsy
Tracy Oldfield
From: MorelFam@...
i love all of the ideas in some of these
books but when it comes back to day to day stuff, many times i cant make
reality jive with what i have read. and the more children i have added, the
looser my hold on the idealistic model has had to become....
erin
susan
i don't think it's about living the books we've read or integrating the philosophies because that's too mental. you shouldn't have to plan how you act with anyone especially your kids. kids have great bs detectors and will know when you're 'on shaky ground' - that's part of the challenge. the reason i read lots of different philosophies is so i can have a picture of how i would like my life to be and what kind of relationship i want with my kids. coming from a highly dysfunctional family this was crucial for me so i could consciously make different choices. being true to who you are and at the same time desire something different may sound contradictory but i think it is necessary to see them as actually complementary. you have to be equally compassionate and understanding with yourself as you are with your kids - don't hold either up to a standard of 'the right way to be' just desire honesty and contentment. the more you accept the way things are -without harsh judgment, and the more you have a clear idea of what you want then just live your life, the more you are able to behave in a way that feels natural and promotes happiness in everyone.
the first few years of being a mom i spent feeling like a utter failure. then i got sick and couldn't be a mom because i couldn't literally move use my arms. the good side of this was it gave me time to get my priorities straight. i realized it has nothing to do with getting it right or being wrong but about loving being who you are, as you are right now and modeling that for your kids. whether it's washing poopie diapers (something honestly i couldn't wait to do after being sick:) or watching or hearing about some fascinating discovery, be happy with it - recognizing the potential to be happy in every situation. screwing up is fine because it's real and honest and if you can accept yourself and continue loving yourself after a big screw up then just think of the love and compassion you are modeling for your kids - essentially you are saying: venture out, get it right or wrong, it doesn't matter because you did something, you challenged yourself and that's always a good thing.
this has been the way i've done things. i screw up and we argue you and get frustrated and i shake my head at the way i respond but i never get judgemental - i do acknowledge it and think, i wish i handled it differently but then i just move on and i do the same with everyone in my life.
-susan
austin,tx
'unity through diversity'
Tracy Oldfield wrote:
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <[email protected]>
erin, I know exactly what you mean! Sometimes I think that although I agree with stuff intellectually, I don't believe it in my heart or I would use it. But most of the time (not today, however!!!) I try to use what I have in my head, (Faber and Mazlish et al :-) ) and it works out ok. I'm guessing that you really NEEDED that time on the treadmill! LIving in hope that eventually I get more in tune with myself and my kids and we can live without winding each other up completely (yes it's been one of those <g>)TracyFrom:MorelFam@...
i love all of the ideas in some of these
books but when it comes back to day to day stuff, many times i cant make
reality jive with what i have read. and the more children i have added, the
looser my hold on the idealistic model has had to become....
erin