Maggy

My kids really got into this and now want to build their own! I thought some of you would enjoy it as well.
Maggy (hoping we don't use MY car for parts!)


Attached is a link to a 2 minute advertisement video... This shows a
Rube Goldberg contraption, like a fine-lubricated line of dominoes, only using parts of a Honda Accord.

You really don't need to read this entire article - it's kinda long -
but it explains how the video was created.


http://onlinetonight.net/images/hhonda-ad-300k.swf


Six hundred and six takes it took, and if they had been force to do a
607th it is probable, if not downright certain, that one of the film
crew would have snapped and gone mad. On the first 605 occasions
something small,usually infuriatingly minute, went just slightly awry
and the whole delicate arrangement was wrecked.

A drop too much oil there, or here maybe one ball-bearing too many
giving fraction too much impetus to the movement. Whirr, creak, crash,
the entire, card-house of consequences was a write-off and they had to
start again.

Honda's latest television advertisement, a two-minute film called "Cog", is like a fine-lubricated line of dominoes. It begins with a
transmission bearing which rolls into a synchro hub which in turn rolls into a gear wheel cog and plummets off a table on to a camshaft and pulley wheel.

All the parts are from the new Honda Accord - £16,495 to you, guv'nor,
or £6 million if you want to pay for the advertising campaign. And what an amazing ad campaign it is, too.

Back on Cog, things are still moving, in a what-happened-next manner
redolent of "there was an old woman who swallowed a fly". With a ting
and a ding of metal on metal, a thud of contact and the occasional
thwock, plop and extended scraping sound, the viewer watches as
individual, stripped-down parts of car roll into one another and set off more reactions.

Three valve stems roll down a sloped bonnet. An exhaust box is pushed
with just enough energy into a rear suspension link which nudges a
transmission selector arm which releases the brake pedal loaded with a
small rubber brake grommit. Catapult! Boing! On goes the beautiful
dance, everything intricately balanced and poised. Nothing must be even a sixteenth of an inch off course or the momentum will be lost.

At one point three tires, amazingly, roll uphill. They do so because
inside they have been weighted with bolts and screws which have been
positioned with fingertip care so that the slightest kiss of kinetic
energy pushes them over, onward and, yes, upward. During the pre-shoot
set-ups, film assistants had to tiptoe round the set so as not to disturb the feather-sensitive superstructure of the arranged metalwork.

The slightest tremor of an ill-judged hand could have undone hours of
work.

Utter silence, a check that the lighting is just right, and "action!".

Scores of grown men hold their breath as the cameras roll. An oil can is tipped and glugs just enough of its contents on to a shelf that has been weighted with a Honda flywheel. Some valve springs rol into the oil and are slowed to a pace perfect to make them drop into a cylinder head assembly.

If all these technical names are confusing, that is partly the point.
The advertisement was designed to show motorists all the fiddly little
bits of engineering that go into the modern Honda. The result, in this
film at least, is something approaching mechanical perfection
and a bewitching aesthetic. As car adverts go, it certainly beats the
"Nicole! Papa!" school of commercial.

If nothing else, Cog is a welcome departure from the generality of car advertisements that feature winding-road landcapes, empty highways and clear blue skies. The absence of people from the commercial at least saved Honda having to make any regional alterations. It will be able to be shown everywhere from Japan to South America, Finland to the Maldives,
without any more alteration than perhaps a change of the closing
voiceover, currently delivered by laid-back Garrison Keillor, the American author, who announces: "Isn't it nice when things just work?"

Cog looks certain to become an advertising legend and part of its allure is the seemingly effortless way the relay of parts slide and touch and roll with such apparent ease. The reality of the film's production was slightly different. It was, by most measures of human patience, a nightmare. Filming was done over four near-sleepless days in a Paris studio, after one month of script approval, two months of concept drawings and a further four months of development and testing. One of the more surprising things about the ad is that it was not a cheat.
Although it would have been much easier to fiddle the chain of events by using computer graphics, the seesaw and shunt of events really did
happen, and in one, clean take.

The bigshots at Honda's world headquarters in Japan, when shown Cog for the first time, replied that yes, it was very clever, and how impressive trick photography was these days. When told that it was all real, they were astonished. One of the more striking moments in the film is when a lone windscreen wiper blade helicopters through the air, suspended from a line of metal twine. "That was the first and last time it worked properly," recalls Tony Davidson, of the London-based advertising agency Wieden & Kennedy. "I wanted it to look like ballet."

After that, a few yards and several ingenious connections down the
assembly line, another pair of windscreen wiper blades is squirted by an activated washer jet. Because Honda wipers have automatic sensors that can detect water, they start a crablike crawl across the floor. It is as though they have come to life.

As take 300 led to 400 which led to 500, a certain madness settled on
the crew. Rob Steiner, the agency producer, started talking about "our
friends, the parts", but in the slightly menacing tone of a primary
school teacher discussing her charges at the end of a trying day. Some
workers on the film went whole days without sleep and had to be asked
to stay away from the more delicate parts of the assembly. Others
started to have bad dreams about throttle activator shafts and bonnet release cables. When things were going wrong - a tire that kept trundling off to the left, or a rocker shaft that kept toppling over like a tipsy cyclist -the production lads on the shoot would start grumbling that "the parts are being very moody today".

Commercial makers are often accustomed to working with human prima
donnas but no Hollywood starlet, no footballing prodigy or showbiz
celeb, was ever as troublesome and unpredictable as the con rods and
pulley wheels and solenoids that Davidson, Steiner and Co had to work
with. Towards the end of the production, Olivier Coulhon, the first
assistant director, had spent so many hours in the darkened studio that his skin had turned a luminous green and his eyes had sunk deep into his Gallic cheeks.
Antoine Bardou-Jacquet, the commercial's director, kept puffing out his cheeks and whinneying, a note of deranged despair twitching at the
corners of his mouth. Asked how long he had been working on the
commercial, he gave high-pitched giggle and replied: "Five years? Or is it eight?" It felt that long.

Two hand-made pre-production Accords - there were only six in existence in the entire world - were needed for the exercise, one of them being ripped apart and cannibalised to the considerable distress of Honda engineers. By the end of the months-long production, the film had used so many spare parts that two articulated lorries were required to take them away.

The idea for the advert derived partly from the old children's game
Mouse Trap, and from the wacky engineering of Caractacus Potts's
breakfast-making machine in the Sixties film Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
The corporate suits at Honda liked the idea immediately, despite the
high costs of production and the fact that it was more than twice as
long, and therefore twice as pricey, as normal car ads. The two-minute
version of the ad ran for the first time last Sunday during the
Brazilian Grand Prix, and brought pubgoers across the nation to a
wide-eyed speechlessness after the Manchester United v Real Madrid game on Tuesday night.

"It was a painstaking process, a tough experience," says Honda's
communications manager Matt Coombe, recalling the making of Cog. Some
of the original ideas, such as one stunt involving an airbag, had to be dropped owing to a shortage of new Accord parts or simply because they were too hard to set up. And on some takes the process would go
perfectly until agonisingly close to the end. "It was like watching a
brilliant footballer weaving his way the whole way through a defending
team's players, and then shooting wide right at the end," says Tony
Davidson. The crew resorted to placing bets on which part of the
sequence would go wrong. Invariably it was the windscreen wipers.

When the final, 606th take eventually succeeded, there was a stunned
silence around the Paris studio. Then, like shipwrecked mariners finally realising that their ordeal was at an end, the team broke into a careworn chorus of increasingly defiant cheers and hurrahs.

Champagne bottles popped. The cylinder liner had brushed its nose
affectionately against the rocker shaft and the gear wheel cog for the
last time. The interior grab handles and the suspension spring coils had done their bit. A classic was complete. Cog was in the can.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

melissa4123

I saw that the other day! It really is fascinating to watch.

melissa

--- In [email protected], "Maggy"
<isaacray@b...> wrote:
> My kids really got into this and now want to build their own! I
thought some of you would enjoy it as well.
> Maggy (hoping we don't use MY car for parts!)
>
>
> Attached is a link to a 2 minute advertisement video... This
shows a
> Rube Goldberg contraption, like a fine-lubricated line of
dominoes, only using parts of a Honda Accord.
>
> You really don't need to read this entire article - it's kinda long -
> but it explains how the video was created.
>
>
> http://onlinetonight.net/images/hhonda-ad-300k.swf
>
>
> Six hundred and six takes it took, and if they had been force to
do a
> 607th it is probable, if not downright certain, that one of the film
> crew would have snapped and gone mad. On the first 605
occasions
> something small,usually infuriatingly minute, went just slightly
awry
> and the whole delicate arrangement was wrecked.
>
> A drop too much oil there, or here maybe one ball-bearing too
many
> giving fraction too much impetus to the movement. Whirr,
creak, crash,
> the entire, card-house of consequences was a write-off and
they had to
> start again.
>
> Honda's latest television advertisement, a two-minute film
called "Cog", is like a fine-lubricated line of dominoes. It begins
with a
> transmission bearing which rolls into a synchro hub which in
turn rolls into a gear wheel cog and plummets off a table on to a
camshaft and pulley wheel.
>
> All the parts are from the new Honda Accord - £16,495 to you,
guv'nor,
> or £6 million if you want to pay for the advertising campaign.
And what an amazing ad campaign it is, too.
>
> Back on Cog, things are still moving, in a what-happened-next
manner
> redolent of "there was an old woman who swallowed a fly".
With a ting
> and a ding of metal on metal, a thud of contact and the
occasional
> thwock, plop and extended scraping sound, the viewer
watches as
> individual, stripped-down parts of car roll into one another and
set off more reactions.
>
> Three valve stems roll down a sloped bonnet. An exhaust box
is pushed
> with just enough energy into a rear suspension link which
nudges a
> transmission selector arm which releases the brake pedal
loaded with a
> small rubber brake grommit. Catapult! Boing! On goes the
beautiful
> dance, everything intricately balanced and poised. Nothing
must be even a sixteenth of an inch off course or the momentum
will be lost.
>
> At one point three tires, amazingly, roll uphill. They do so
because
> inside they have been weighted with bolts and screws which
have been
> positioned with fingertip care so that the slightest kiss of
kinetic
> energy pushes them over, onward and, yes, upward. During
the pre-shoot
> set-ups, film assistants had to tiptoe round the set so as not to
disturb the feather-sensitive superstructure of the arranged
metalwork.
>
> The slightest tremor of an ill-judged hand could have undone
hours of
> work.
>
> Utter silence, a check that the lighting is just right, and
"action!".
>
> Scores of grown men hold their breath as the cameras roll. An
oil can is tipped and glugs just enough of its contents on to a
shelf that has been weighted with a Honda flywheel. Some valve
springs rol into the oil and are slowed to a pace perfect to make
them drop into a cylinder head assembly.
>
> If all these technical names are confusing, that is partly the
point.
> The advertisement was designed to show motorists all the
fiddly little
> bits of engineering that go into the modern Honda. The result,
in this
> film at least, is something approaching mechanical perfection
> and a bewitching aesthetic. As car adverts go, it certainly beats
the
> "Nicole! Papa!" school of commercial.
>
> If nothing else, Cog is a welcome departure from the generality
of car advertisements that feature winding-road landcapes,
empty highways and clear blue skies. The absence of people
from the commercial at least saved Honda having to make any
regional alterations. It will be able to be shown everywhere from
Japan to South America, Finland to the Maldives,
> without any more alteration than perhaps a change of the
closing
> voiceover, currently delivered by laid-back Garrison Keillor, the
American author, who announces: "Isn't it nice when things just
work?"
>
> Cog looks certain to become an advertising legend and part of
its allure is the seemingly effortless way the relay of parts slide
and touch and roll with such apparent ease. The reality of the
film's production was slightly different. It was, by most measures
of human patience, a nightmare. Filming was done over four
near-sleepless days in a Paris studio, after one month of script
approval, two months of concept drawings and a further four
months of development and testing. One of the more surprising
things about the ad is that it was not a cheat.
> Although it would have been much easier to fiddle the chain of
events by using computer graphics, the seesaw and shunt of
events really did
> happen, and in one, clean take.
>
> The bigshots at Honda's world headquarters in Japan, when
shown Cog for the first time, replied that yes, it was very clever,
and how impressive trick photography was these days. When
told that it was all real, they were astonished. One of the more
striking moments in the film is when a lone windscreen wiper
blade helicopters through the air, suspended from a line of
metal twine. "That was the first and last time it worked properly,"
recalls Tony Davidson, of the London-based advertising agency
Wieden & Kennedy. "I wanted it to look like ballet."
>
> After that, a few yards and several ingenious connections down
the
> assembly line, another pair of windscreen wiper blades is
squirted by an activated washer jet. Because Honda wipers have
automatic sensors that can detect water, they start a crablike
crawl across the floor. It is as though they have come to life.
>
> As take 300 led to 400 which led to 500, a certain madness
settled on
> the crew. Rob Steiner, the agency producer, started talking
about "our
> friends, the parts", but in the slightly menacing tone of a
primary
> school teacher discussing her charges at the end of a trying
day. Some
> workers on the film went whole days without sleep and had to
be asked
> to stay away from the more delicate parts of the assembly.
Others
> started to have bad dreams about throttle activator shafts and
bonnet release cables. When things were going wrong - a tire
that kept trundling off to the left, or a rocker shaft that kept
toppling over like a tipsy cyclist -the production lads on the shoot
would start grumbling that "the parts are being very moody
today".
>
> Commercial makers are often accustomed to working with
human prima
> donnas but no Hollywood starlet, no footballing prodigy or
showbiz
> celeb, was ever as troublesome and unpredictable as the con
rods and
> pulley wheels and solenoids that Davidson, Steiner and Co
had to work
> with. Towards the end of the production, Olivier Coulhon, the
first
> assistant director, had spent so many hours in the darkened
studio that his skin had turned a luminous green and his eyes
had sunk deep into his Gallic cheeks.
> Antoine Bardou-Jacquet, the commercial's director, kept
puffing out his cheeks and whinneying, a note of deranged
despair twitching at the
> corners of his mouth. Asked how long he had been working
on the
> commercial, he gave high-pitched giggle and replied: "Five
years? Or is it eight?" It felt that long.
>
> Two hand-made pre-production Accords - there were only six
in existence in the entire world - were needed for the exercise,
one of them being ripped apart and cannibalised to the
considerable distress of Honda engineers. By the end of the
months-long production, the film had used so many spare parts
that two articulated lorries were required to take them away.
>
> The idea for the advert derived partly from the old children's
game
> Mouse Trap, and from the wacky engineering of Caractacus
Potts's
> breakfast-making machine in the Sixties film Chitty Chitty Bang
Bang.
> The corporate suits at Honda liked the idea immediately,
despite the
> high costs of production and the fact that it was more than
twice as
> long, and therefore twice as pricey, as normal car ads. The
two-minute
> version of the ad ran for the first time last Sunday during the
> Brazilian Grand Prix, and brought pubgoers across the nation
to a
> wide-eyed speechlessness after the Manchester United v
Real Madrid game on Tuesday night.
>
> "It was a painstaking process, a tough experience," says
Honda's
> communications manager Matt Coombe, recalling the making
of Cog. Some
> of the original ideas, such as one stunt involving an airbag,
had to be dropped owing to a shortage of new Accord parts or
simply because they were too hard to set up. And on some
takes the process would go
> perfectly until agonisingly close to the end. "It was like watching
a
> brilliant footballer weaving his way the whole way through a
defending
> team's players, and then shooting wide right at the end," says
Tony
> Davidson. The crew resorted to placing bets on which part of
the
> sequence would go wrong. Invariably it was the windscreen
wipers.
>
> When the final, 606th take eventually succeeded, there was a
stunned
> silence around the Paris studio. Then, like shipwrecked
mariners finally realising that their ordeal was at an end, the
team broke into a careworn chorus of increasingly defiant
cheers and hurrahs.
>
> Champagne bottles popped. The cylinder liner had brushed its
nose
> affectionately against the rocker shaft and the gear wheel cog
for the
> last time. The interior grab handles and the suspension spring
coils had done their bit. A classic was complete. Cog was in the
can.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

We saw this a few weeks ago. Watch very closely when the tires go up the
ramp. Its either the 2nd or 3rd tire, it rolls up, tips the one in front of it,
rolls back down ( as physics rule) THEN, it rolls back UP a bit.. Not the
rules of physics.. lol .. makes you wonder...

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jana

Just wondering if anyone read this letter in Dear Abby this morning:

http://www.uexpress.com/dearabby/


DEAR ABBY: I am an 11th-grade girl, and I need
your advice on what to tell my parents when my
report card comes in June. My GPA has dropped
big-time since the last one, and they have both
been nagging me to study harder.

My mom and dad don't understand what it's like
for me at school. Keeping my grades up has
become more difficult because I don't have the
motivation to immerse myself in the mandatory
curriculum. I have no need whatsoever for those
boring academic requirements.

The one thing I'm good at is art -- drawing and
painting -- and I can do that on my
own. Sometimes I wonder why I need high school
at all. I'd love to have a break from it. How
can I clue my parents in to what I'm all about,
Abby? -- FRUSTRATED TEEN IN VERMONT

DEAR FRUSTRATED TEEN: I suspect your parents are
going to know what you are all about once they
see your report card. Every student, at one time
or another, has had the same feelings. But the
smart ones accept the reality that in order to
succeed and be independent, they must, at the
very least, have a high school (or equivalent)
diploma. The time to get it is now. So buckle
down in your senior year and lift your grade
point average. Art schools require well-rounded
students.


(my comments now):

I was so disappointed to read the advice she gave this girl. How I
wish someone would speak to teenagers like they are people capable of
independent thought!

I wrote dear abby a letter and I suggested that perhaps this young
woman give herself the time to figure out what she would really like
to do, and whether or not high school is going to help her. i said
that high school is something you can do later, and that many people
don't even have a high school diploma and they still pursue college. i
suggested that art is something that calls you, and sooner or later if
it's what you're here to do, you'll have to do it. how wonderful if
we can be helped to follow our dreams when we are young.

i said that if she wants to do art, the best thing to do is develop
her studio practice, and that there are lots of resources outside of
high school that can help with this-- manuals on artist materials and
techniques, community art classes (which don't worry about grading
your work), mentorship with an artist you admire, and reading books
that artists wrote. i said that there are lots of ways to support
yourself financially while doing art, and many of them do involve
taking an outside job and doing art in your free time, so why not deal
with that reality now, and take advantage of the fact that she can
probably still live with her parents at this young age? i saw so much
of myself in this young woman, and so sad that the knee-jerk reaction
was: "worry about your grade point average!"

Jana

marji

Well, that was really cool, and it was great to read the article that went
with it. Several years ago, WGBH (I think) produced a similar bunch of
footage; some guy or team of folks had gotten a grant to do this and it
involved chemical reactions and all sorts of physics and gravity. It
looked like it was shot in an old warehouse and the film was called, "The
Way Things Go." My husband had gotten a copy of it (I believe it was
before our son Liam was born) and we just watched it with our jaws
slack. It was so cool. It's one of Liam's favorite things to watch (next
to Power Rangers, Spongebob, and Star Wars, that is).

I have to confess that when we were watching this piece, Cog, and we
realized it was an advertisement at the end, we did give each other a
"look." But the truth is that many graphic artists and writers and
musicians get to earn a healthy income by doing their craft because of
advertising. Of course, they have to deal with the wee little minds of
their clients and marketing folks, but maybe there's a great deal of
creativity in that!

Marji, sleepy and rambling incoherently. Sorry!


At 14:51 5/23/03 +0000, you wrote:
> > Attached is a link to a 2 minute advertisement video... This
>shows a
> > Rube Goldberg contraption, like a fine-lubricated line of
>dominoes, only using parts of a Honda Accord.
> >
> > You really don't need to read this entire article - it's kinda long -
> > but it explains how the video was created.
> >
> >
> > http://onlinetonight.net/images/hhonda-ad-300k.swf


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/03 11:56:25 AM, marji@... writes:

<< But the truth is that many graphic artists and writers and
musicians get to earn a healthy income by doing their craft because of
advertising. Of course, they have to deal with the wee little minds of
their clients and marketing folks, but maybe there's a great deal of
creativity in that! >>

Biggest example of that is the Catholic church in the Middle Ages and the
Renaissance. <g>

Sandra

marji

At 14:38 5/23/03 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 5/23/03 11:56:25 AM, marji@... writes:
>
><< But the truth is that many graphic artists and writers and
>musicians get to earn a healthy income by doing their craft because of
>advertising. Of course, they have to deal with the wee little minds of
>their clients and marketing folks, but maybe there's a great deal of
>creativity in that! >>
>
>Biggest example of that is the Catholic church in the Middle Ages and the
>Renaissance. <g>
>
>Sandra

Yes. Good point! <bg>

marji


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa M. C. Bentley

> of myself in this young woman, and so sad that the knee-jerk reaction
> was: "worry about your grade point average!"

It is also frustrating that Abby insists that the young woman couldn't
possibly become an artist without additional schooling. It is
ridiculous to think that a really good artist needs to be a master of
other "subjects" also!

-Lisa in AZ

Betsy

**> of myself in this young woman, and so sad that the knee-jerk reaction
> was: "worry about your grade point average!"

It is also frustrating that Abby insists that the young woman couldn't
possibly become an artist without additional schooling. It is
ridiculous to think that a really good artist needs to be a master of
other "subjects" also!**

Makes me wonder what kind of diploma one needs to become an advice columnist.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/2003 6:06:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:

> Makes me wonder what kind of diploma one needs to become an advice
> columnist.
>
> Betsy

The deceased sister?
Didn't "Abby" Pass away? I could be wrong but didn't her sister take the Dear
Abby column?

Laura D


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 5/23/03 11:58 AM, grlynbl@... at grlynbl@... wrote:

> We saw this a few weeks ago. Watch very closely when the tires go up the
> ramp. Its either the 2nd or 3rd tire, it rolls up, tips the one in front of
> it,
> rolls back down ( as physics rule) THEN, it rolls back UP a bit.. Not the
> rules of physics.. lol .. makes you wonder...

It doesn't behave as we'd expect a moving object would, but our "internal
physics rules" are based on things that are moving in only one dimension.
The tires are rotating so the movement is more complex.

Why would a moving bicycle be easy to balance on and a stationary one not?

Gyroscopes behave in ways that seem to "defy physics" too. It's perfectly
normal behavior for something spinning but it's just behavior we aren't
familiar with.

Joyce

Michele Evard

At 10:41 PM 5/23/2003 -0400, HMSL2@... wrote:
>In a message dated 5/23/2003 6:06:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>ecsamhill@... writes:
>
> > Makes me wonder what kind of diploma one needs to become an advice
> > columnist.
> >
> > Betsy
>
>The deceased sister?
>Didn't "Abby" Pass away? I could be wrong but didn't her sister take the Dear
>Abby column?

"abby" is still alive, but not in great health. her daughter writes the
column now. "ann landers" was the first column, written by "abby"'s twin
sister. "ann" died a year ago, and her column disappeared. her daughter
writes a different column.

some articles on it, if you're interested:
http://www.wayneandtamara.com/thedifference.htm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0206270220jun27.story?coll=chi-news-hed

i, too, read the question in the newspaper, and wished that the answer had
been completely different.

michele

[email protected]

Hello all,
I am new, just found you guys yesterday! This is just what I needed! We've
been homeschooling for 12 years. Finding unschooling peers has been difficult
over the years. We never model after public school, just a little formal
instruction to get by. I am always saying we would do none if I could!! My oldest
is 17,dual enrolled at the local community college, it was good for the
experience of it. She proved to everyone that she was capable of it. Enough of the
classroom stuff, now she is off to the Bahamas for the summer on a 45 ft
schooner, kinda of a nanny job! I am jealous! I also have a 13 yr. daughter, 8 yr.
son and a special needs 5yr. son
I wanted to say that someone is capable of becoming an artist, and really
making it in the world. My husband supports our family very comfortably. He
never went farther than H.S. but he always tells the story of sleeping in class
and the teacher telling him,"he will never amount to anything" and some one
pipes up and says "teacher..he already makes more money than you"! He was
airbrushing T-shirts in Daytona. He has gone on to be a very succesfull artist! He is
the biggest unschooling advocate I know!
Hugs, Patti,


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/03 2:49:32 PM, marji@... writes:

<< Biggest example of that is the Catholic church in the Middle Ages and the
>Renaissance. <g>
>
>Sandra

<<Yes. Good point! <bg> >>

When I wrote it I had been thinking of graphics and sculpture, but musicians
had jobs too! Composers, organists, instrument builders, calligraphers,
ARCHITECTS and...
Quite a corporation.

Sandra

[email protected]

Thanks for the welcome,
I have beencomposing a letter to Abby ever since I read that yesterday
morning! Not that I think I could change her politically correct thinking! I
would really want to write that child stuck in a situation that looks pretty
hopeless from her perspective. I always wish I could hand out copies oF The teenage
Liberation Handbook!! My daughter has alot of friends that are now going to
the adult High School at the Community College instead of the public high
school. They needed out and we found other options for them. She wanted to look
into getting a diploma at the time, she wanted to go into psychology. A year
later, she has read every library book on the subject and taken the college
psychology class and the anatomy class, and I don't hear another word of it. She has
moved on. I think she isn't even interested in more free college
classes...but you never know what will pop up next! She is extremely self motivated, I
don't direct her at all. She volunteers at the local karate school teaching
classes every day. She has no desire to move out in a few months when she turns
18, She knows that just being 18 doesn't make you ready for the world! I tell
them they are welcome to stay til they are ready to leave! Of course they will
have to be considerate of house rules even if they are 18. I couldn't stand to
worry all night where she was , but she is always being responsible and she is
always where she says she will be and home when I ask her to be. I think the
trick is too not lose that connection... the one homeschool affords, to be
involved and really care. The Mom that can't wait to get away from her kids will
not have that kind of connection! My children know without a doubt that I will
love them and be here(mentally) for them no matter what.
Goin' surfing, Hugs Patti


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Robyn Coburn

Welcome and keep reading. Soon you will find that you can let go of your
last fears and "do none". Also in the archives/message boards there is a
Special Needs folder that is wonderfully helpful.

Robyn Coburn



<<We never model after public school, just a little formal
instruction to get by. I am always saying we would do none if I
could!!..... I also have a 13 yr. daughter, 8 yr.
son and a special needs 5yr. son>>




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[email protected]

Thanks Sandra,
This is the reason I was exploring the unschooling list. Max will be
kindergarten age and I have to keep a log for the co. superintenant. Boy, do I hate
it. Homeschooling all these years, now I have to try to write it down? Fl.
law..I get to the end of the week and go "WHat DID we do Mon.??" We have been
doing it all along, unschooling him. We quit all therapys very
early...surprise..he's mastering his skills just fine! I want to feel more relaxed with this
one, not pressured. I want to rip up every timetable on skills I see!!! Every
single skill has thrown us all into whoops and jumping up and down. The writing
it down is my problem!!
Hugs, Patti


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liza sabater

> Max will be
> kindergarten age and I have to keep a log for the co. superintenant.

You have to do it for kindergarten? Doesn't compulsory law in FL start
at 6? Check it out, it may buy you an extra year.

Best,
l i z a
=======================
www.culturekitchen.com



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Mary

From: "liza sabater" <listdiva@...>

<<Doesn't compulsory law in FL start at 6? >>


Yes it does. And welcome back. Sorry about your dad. I hope you are managing
to make life good for you again.

Mary B

[email protected]

mevard@... writes:

<< i, too, read the question in the newspaper, and wished that the answer had
been completely different.

michele >>

Who's going to write Dear Abby a letter that will open her mind to the world
of unschooling? She'll rebut her answer if we enlighten her!

Did ya'll read that girl's writing in that letter!? My gods, if I wrote like
that in hs, I would be published by now!!

~Aimee

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/03 11:36:15 AM, AimeeL73@... writes:

<< Who's going to write Dear Abby a letter that will open her mind to the
world
of unschooling? >>

Nobody. Those columns take on a persona and invincibility and those writers
don't exist to be enlightened, but to reinforce the existing traditions and to
shame those who want to depart from the well-lit path.

Sandra

Michele Evard

At 02:11 PM 5/25/2003 -0400, SandraDodd@... wrote:

>In a message dated 5/25/03 11:36:15 AM, AimeeL73@... writes:
>
><< Who's going to write Dear Abby a letter that will open her mind to the
>world
>of unschooling? >>
>
>Nobody. Those columns take on a persona and invincibility and those writers
>don't exist to be enlightened, but to reinforce the existing traditions
>and to
>shame those who want to depart from the well-lit path.

while i agree that the columns have a persona, i've seen dear abby's
authors recant when she has gotten letters that disagree with her
advice. sometimes she says she hadn't thought it through, other times
she's said she didn't know about the other view. i think it'd be great if
several of us wrote to her!

michele

[email protected]

We need that time at the beach! All that exercise and fresh air. My oldest
always reads, middle 2 get a really good work out and my youngest Max, with
Down syndrome runs miles, with nothing to trip on. He really wears himself out
and then plops and plays in the sand. We always come across something
interesting, that has washed up! Going to a play ground is not near as relaxing !
Hugs, Patti


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Jana

> ><< Who's going to write Dear Abby a letter that will open her mind to the
> >world
> >of unschooling? >>
> >
> >Nobody. Those columns take on a persona and invincibility and those writers
> >don't exist to be enlightened, but to reinforce the existing traditions
> >and to
> >shame those who want to depart from the well-lit path.
>
> while i agree that the columns have a persona, i've seen dear abby's
> authors recant when she has gotten letters that disagree with her
> advice. sometimes she says she hadn't thought it through, other times
> she's said she didn't know about the other view. i think it'd be great if
> several of us wrote to her!

I wrote her a letter. I addressed it to the high school girl who was
saying she wanted to do art. I suggested some practical ways to move
in the direction of doing art for a living, if that is what she wants,
and I also recommended that she read the Teenage Liberation Handbook.
I wasn't expecting that much would come of the letter, but I asked
"dear abby" to forward it to her if possible! (tho i wasn't really
expecting that, either.) it was good to do something about it to get
it off my chest!

Jana

Jana

gersonkid4@... writes:

> I wanted to say that someone is capable of becoming an artist, and
> really making it in the world. My husband supports our family very
> comfortably. He never went farther than H.S. but he always tells the
> story of sleeping in class and the teacher telling him,"he will
> never amount to anything" and some one pipes up and says
> "teacher..he already makes more money than you"! He was airbrushing
> T-shirts in Daytona. He has gone on to be a very succesfull artist!

Hi Patti,

This is so encouraging to hear, that he supports a family earning a
living as an artist. Would you be willing to share any art on-line?
You can send it to me privately if you prefer... I am just getting up
a web site to sell my art work.

Jana

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/03 9:31:03 PM, jana@... writes:

<< > ><< Who's going to write Dear Abby a letter that will open her mind to
the
> >world
> >of unschooling? >>
> >
> >Nobody. >>

I didn't mean nobody would write.
I think writing is great even if it's just shared here.
I just don't think anyone will change her mind.

Sandra