Re: Breaking the spirit
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/20/2003 5:09:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
many parents who pulled their kids during or after 3rd grade. They start to
realize that the kids they know and love are changing, and some decide they
don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so they get them the hell out of
there.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> <<"School Takes 13 years because that's how long it takes to break a child'sI think 3rd grade is when parents realize that it's happening. I know SOOOOO
>
> spirit." >>
>
> I like the message. But I think they usually break them by fifth grade.
>
> Maybe school is more efficient than you're remembering! By the 13th year,
> they're up to working on breaking the stunted but emerging ADULT spirit!
>
>
many parents who pulled their kids during or after 3rd grade. They start to
realize that the kids they know and love are changing, and some decide they
don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so they get them the hell out of
there.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/20/2003 5:36:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
Fifth was better in some ways, but the fire was being sucked right out of
him.
By sixth, it was a tiny flicker. I wish I'd known there was an option. We
would've been gone in fourth (or before we ever started!).
Cameron's friends who are still in school are dead inside.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
> I think 3rd grade is when parents realize that it's happening. I know SOOOOOI saw it in fourth. Figured it was just a bad teacher.
>
> many parents who pulled their kids during or after 3rd grade. They start to
>
> realize that the kids they know and love are changing, and some decide they
>
> don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so they get them the hell out
> of
> there.
Fifth was better in some ways, but the fire was being sucked right out of
him.
By sixth, it was a tiny flicker. I wish I'd known there was an option. We
would've been gone in fourth (or before we ever started!).
Cameron's friends who are still in school are dead inside.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Brianna was in the middle of third grade when I pulled her. It became so very apparent by then...her spirit really was being crushed.
Part of what we, as parents have to learn is to trust that spirit in our kids. To nurture that spirit; to feed and protect that spirit...that's unschooling.
Janis
Part of what we, as parents have to learn is to trust that spirit in our kids. To nurture that spirit; to feed and protect that spirit...that's unschooling.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: KathrynJB@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
In a message dated 5/20/2003 5:09:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> <<"School Takes 13 years because that's how long it takes to break a child's
>
> spirit." >>
>
> I like the message. But I think they usually break them by fifth grade.
>
> Maybe school is more efficient than you're remembering! By the 13th year,
> they're up to working on breaking the stunted but emerging ADULT spirit!
>
>
I think 3rd grade is when parents realize that it's happening. I know SOOOOO
many parents who pulled their kids during or after 3rd grade. They start to
realize that the kids they know and love are changing, and some decide they
don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so they get them the hell out of
there.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< "School Takes 13 years because that's how long it takes to break a child's
>Mine was broken the first day of first grade. Lara........
> spirit." >>
Tammy T.
Haley's spark disappeard in 1st grade and just this year (she's 10 May 31),
since we began an unschooling lifestyle, DH and I are seeing it resurface.
We were just talking about this today. I'm so glad to see it, I wondered if
we would ever see her spirit come alive again.
Tammy T.
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 17:12:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
In a message dated 5/20/2003 5:36:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
Fifth was better in some ways, but the fire was being sucked right out of
him.
By sixth, it was a tiny flicker. I wish I'd known there was an option. We
would've been gone in fourth (or before we ever started!).
Cameron's friends who are still in school are dead inside.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
since we began an unschooling lifestyle, DH and I are seeing it resurface.
We were just talking about this today. I'm so glad to see it, I wondered if
we would ever see her spirit come alive again.
Tammy T.
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 17:12:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
In a message dated 5/20/2003 5:36:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
> I think 3rd grade is when parents realize that it's happening. I knowSOOOOO
>to
> many parents who pulled their kids during or after 3rd grade. They start
>they
> realize that the kids they know and love are changing, and some decide
>I saw it in fourth. Figured it was just a bad teacher.
> don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so they get them the hell out
> of
> there.
Fifth was better in some ways, but the fire was being sucked right out of
him.
By sixth, it was a tiny flicker. I wish I'd known there was an option. We
would've been gone in fourth (or before we ever started!).
Cameron's friends who are still in school are dead inside.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Backstrom kelli
6th grade, Sister Agnes, St. Christopher's School in East Hartford CT... we were split up in to groups for the remainder of the year. I was in the "B" group... the "dumb" group, the "not straight A's group" ... watch my spirit fly out the window with my attention and my love of learning... it took 15 years, a certain college professor and a favorite topic to gain it back again.... Kelli
coyote's corner <jana@...> wrote:Brianna was in the middle of third grade when I pulled her. It became so very apparent by then...her spirit really was being crushed.
Part of what we, as parents have to learn is to trust that spirit in our kids. To nurture that spirit; to feed and protect that spirit...that's unschooling.
Janis
coyote's corner <jana@...> wrote:Brianna was in the middle of third grade when I pulled her. It became so very apparent by then...her spirit really was being crushed.
Part of what we, as parents have to learn is to trust that spirit in our kids. To nurture that spirit; to feed and protect that spirit...that's unschooling.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: KathrynJB@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
In a message dated 5/20/2003 5:09:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> <<"School Takes 13 years because that's how long it takes to break a child's
>
> spirit." >>
>
> I like the message. But I think they usually break them by fifth grade.
>
> Maybe school is more efficient than you're remembering! By the 13th year,
> they're up to working on breaking the stunted but emerging ADULT spirit!
>
>
I think 3rd grade is when parents realize that it's happening. I know SOOOOO
many parents who pulled their kids during or after 3rd grade. They start to
realize that the kids they know and love are changing, and some decide they
don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so they get them the hell out of
there.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Kelli Traaseth
**I think 3rd grade is when parents realize that it's happening.**
It seems to keep getting younger and younger. My FIL noticed this when I was introducing him to unschooling. I was telling him how I saw the light going out in my son's eyes, 2nd grade, and he said, "yeah, I remember seeing that in 5th grade or something". He was a teacher 30 years ago. He agreed that he thought it was happening younger now too.
The schools are becoming more efficient,,,,blech!
I'm sure it also has to do with how sensitive a child is? Maybe? All I know, is that it eventually affects us all.
Kelli
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It seems to keep getting younger and younger. My FIL noticed this when I was introducing him to unschooling. I was telling him how I saw the light going out in my son's eyes, 2nd grade, and he said, "yeah, I remember seeing that in 5th grade or something". He was a teacher 30 years ago. He agreed that he thought it was happening younger now too.
The schools are becoming more efficient,,,,blech!
I'm sure it also has to do with how sensitive a child is? Maybe? All I know, is that it eventually affects us all.
Kelli
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joanne comito
they don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so
this mindset that I was always PREPARING for
life...that somehow what I was doing right then wasn't
the important thing. My kids don't have that. They
are living their lives right now, today--and they
aren't spending their precious time learning someone
else's agenda to prepare them for some hypothetical
future.
When they learn something, it's because it's useful or
fascinating or fun for them right THEN.
Joanne
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> they get them the hell out ofYeah, it occurred to me today that school kept me in
> there.
this mindset that I was always PREPARING for
life...that somehow what I was doing right then wasn't
the important thing. My kids don't have that. They
are living their lives right now, today--and they
aren't spending their precious time learning someone
else's agenda to prepare them for some hypothetical
future.
When they learn something, it's because it's useful or
fascinating or fun for them right THEN.
Joanne
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Kelli Traaseth
**Cameron's friends who are still in school are dead inside.**
I seriously have seen the dull stare in kids as young as 1st grade. Many of these kids haredly ever spend a whole day with their own families/parents. Shipped off where ever and when ever it is possible. It is sooooo sad.
Kelli
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I seriously have seen the dull stare in kids as young as 1st grade. Many of these kids haredly ever spend a whole day with their own families/parents. Shipped off where ever and when ever it is possible. It is sooooo sad.
Kelli
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Tammy T.
oh gosh, i remember the beginning of 8th grade I signed up for pre-algebra.
the class had to take a test and i was one of 2 to be singled out in front
of the class to gather my things and go to the remedial math class... one of
the most humiliating moments in school for me.... i still don't know why
they put me there. I aced that class. (but flunked history..lol)
tammyt
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 21:53:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
6th grade, Sister Agnes, St. Christopher's School in East Hartford CT... we
were split up in to groups for the remainder of the year. I was in the "B"
group... the "dumb" group, the "not straight A's group" ... watch my spirit
fly out the window with my attention and my love of learning... it took 15
years, a certain college professor and a favorite topic to gain it back
again.... Kelli
coyote's corner <jana@...> wrote:Brianna was in the middle of
third grade when I pulled her. It became so very apparent by then...her
spirit really was being crushed.
Part of what we, as parents have to learn is to trust that spirit in our
kids. To nurture that spirit; to feed and protect that spirit...that's
unschooling.
Janis
the class had to take a test and i was one of 2 to be singled out in front
of the class to gather my things and go to the remedial math class... one of
the most humiliating moments in school for me.... i still don't know why
they put me there. I aced that class. (but flunked history..lol)
tammyt
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 21:53:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
6th grade, Sister Agnes, St. Christopher's School in East Hartford CT... we
were split up in to groups for the remainder of the year. I was in the "B"
group... the "dumb" group, the "not straight A's group" ... watch my spirit
fly out the window with my attention and my love of learning... it took 15
years, a certain college professor and a favorite topic to gain it back
again.... Kelli
coyote's corner <jana@...> wrote:Brianna was in the middle of
third grade when I pulled her. It became so very apparent by then...her
spirit really was being crushed.
Part of what we, as parents have to learn is to trust that spirit in our
kids. To nurture that spirit; to feed and protect that spirit...that's
unschooling.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: KathrynJB@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
In a message dated 5/20/2003 5:09:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> <<"School Takes 13 years because that's how long it takes to break a
child's
>
> spirit." >>
>
> I like the message. But I think they usually break them by fifth grade.
>
> Maybe school is more efficient than you're remembering! By the 13th
year,
> they're up to working on breaking the stunted but emerging ADULT
spirit!
>
>
I think 3rd grade is when parents realize that it's happening. I know
SOOOOO
many parents who pulled their kids during or after 3rd grade. They start
to
realize that the kids they know and love are changing, and some decide
they
don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so they get them the hell out
of
there.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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---------------------------------
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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coyote's corner
My Most Humiliating Moment -
6th Grade.
I had to go to the bathroom. I really had to pee!
The teacher said no. She said I could wait. A few minutes later - I had my hand up again (BTW-when we wanted to go to the bathroom, we used one finger for pee; two fingers for well - you know); She said No - I said "Please"
"No"
A few minutes later I raised my hand again. She made me stand by her desk for disobedience. "If you want my attention - then you have it!!"
I peed right there.
I couldn't help it.
I was struggling to hold it in while she banged her stupid gavel and screamed at me to be still.
This woman was so fearsome!! She had a gavel that she pounded on her desk. She broke at least one a year. Anyway - she was so fearsome that hardly any of my classmates said or did anything. My whole 6th grade was torture.
Janis
6th Grade.
I had to go to the bathroom. I really had to pee!
The teacher said no. She said I could wait. A few minutes later - I had my hand up again (BTW-when we wanted to go to the bathroom, we used one finger for pee; two fingers for well - you know); She said No - I said "Please"
"No"
A few minutes later I raised my hand again. She made me stand by her desk for disobedience. "If you want my attention - then you have it!!"
I peed right there.
I couldn't help it.
I was struggling to hold it in while she banged her stupid gavel and screamed at me to be still.
This woman was so fearsome!! She had a gavel that she pounded on her desk. She broke at least one a year. Anyway - she was so fearsome that hardly any of my classmates said or did anything. My whole 6th grade was torture.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Tammy T.
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
oh gosh, i remember the beginning of 8th grade I signed up for pre-algebra.
the class had to take a test and i was one of 2 to be singled out in front
of the class to gather my things and go to the remedial math class... one of
the most humiliating moments in school for me.... i still don't know why
they put me there. I aced that class. (but flunked history..lol)
tammyt
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 21:53:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
6th grade, Sister Agnes, St. Christopher's School in East Hartford CT... we
were split up in to groups for the remainder of the year. I was in the "B"
group... the "dumb" group, the "not straight A's group" ... watch my spirit
fly out the window with my attention and my love of learning... it took 15
years, a certain college professor and a favorite topic to gain it back
again.... Kelli
coyote's corner <jana@...> wrote:Brianna was in the middle of
third grade when I pulled her. It became so very apparent by then...her
spirit really was being crushed.
Part of what we, as parents have to learn is to trust that spirit in our
kids. To nurture that spirit; to feed and protect that spirit...that's
unschooling.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: KathrynJB@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
In a message dated 5/20/2003 5:09:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> <<"School Takes 13 years because that's how long it takes to break a
child's
>
> spirit." >>
>
> I like the message. But I think they usually break them by fifth grade.
>
> Maybe school is more efficient than you're remembering! By the 13th
year,
> they're up to working on breaking the stunted but emerging ADULT
spirit!
>
>
I think 3rd grade is when parents realize that it's happening. I know
SOOOOO
many parents who pulled their kids during or after 3rd grade. They start
to
realize that the kids they know and love are changing, and some decide
they
don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so they get them the hell out
of
there.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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The Burton Bunch
Mine was in 1st grade - the teacher used to pull me out of my seat and up into the front of the classroom by my ear.....she would then safety pin a note on my shirt explaining to my parents what a "bad girl" I had been (for the life of my I can't remember what I did that was so "bad"). I would always tear it off and stuff it in the bushes surrounding my house. Funny thing -- my parents moved 2 years ago and the bushes were removed.....lots of little notes stuffed way down in. (beg)
Jinger
Jinger
----- Original Message -----
From: coyote's corner
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
My Most Humiliating Moment -
6th Grade.
I had to go to the bathroom. I really had to pee!
The teacher said no. She said I could wait. A few minutes later - I had my hand up again (BTW-when we wanted to go to the bathroom, we used one finger for pee; two fingers for well - you know); She said No - I said "Please"
"No"
A few minutes later I raised my hand again. She made me stand by her desk for disobedience. "If you want my attention - then you have it!!"
I peed right there.
I couldn't help it.
I was struggling to hold it in while she banged her stupid gavel and screamed at me to be still.
This woman was so fearsome!! She had a gavel that she pounded on her desk. She broke at least one a year. Anyway - she was so fearsome that hardly any of my classmates said or did anything. My whole 6th grade was torture.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Tammy T.
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
oh gosh, i remember the beginning of 8th grade I signed up for pre-algebra.
the class had to take a test and i was one of 2 to be singled out in front
of the class to gather my things and go to the remedial math class... one of
the most humiliating moments in school for me.... i still don't know why
they put me there. I aced that class. (but flunked history..lol)
tammyt
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 21:53:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
6th grade, Sister Agnes, St. Christopher's School in East Hartford CT... we
were split up in to groups for the remainder of the year. I was in the "B"
group... the "dumb" group, the "not straight A's group" ... watch my spirit
fly out the window with my attention and my love of learning... it took 15
years, a certain college professor and a favorite topic to gain it back
again.... Kelli
coyote's corner <jana@...> wrote:Brianna was in the middle of
third grade when I pulled her. It became so very apparent by then...her
spirit really was being crushed.
Part of what we, as parents have to learn is to trust that spirit in our
kids. To nurture that spirit; to feed and protect that spirit...that's
unschooling.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: KathrynJB@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
In a message dated 5/20/2003 5:09:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> <<"School Takes 13 years because that's how long it takes to break a
child's
>
> spirit." >>
>
> I like the message. But I think they usually break them by fifth grade.
>
> Maybe school is more efficient than you're remembering! By the 13th
year,
> they're up to working on breaking the stunted but emerging ADULT
spirit!
>
>
I think 3rd grade is when parents realize that it's happening. I know
SOOOOO
many parents who pulled their kids during or after 3rd grade. They start
to
realize that the kids they know and love are changing, and some decide
they
don't WANT that spark in their kids to die, so they get them the hell out
of
there.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/03 8:07:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jana@... writes:
teacher said it cold wait and made me put my head down on the desk for
punishment for disrupting the class. I peed in the seat I had to go so bad.
Then she called my Mom and had to wait during recess for the change of
clothes. Very embarrassing. What is it about teachers and the bathroom.
Wouldn't a person know if they had to go or not.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jana@... writes:
> A few minutes later I raised my hand again. She made me stand by her deskI had an experience like that in 2nd grade. I raised my hand to pee and the
> for disobedience. "If you want my attention - then you have it!!"
> I peed right there.
> I couldn't help it.
>
teacher said it cold wait and made me put my head down on the desk for
punishment for disrupting the class. I peed in the seat I had to go so bad.
Then she called my Mom and had to wait during recess for the change of
clothes. Very embarrassing. What is it about teachers and the bathroom.
Wouldn't a person know if they had to go or not.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
You would think so.
It's control. Plain & simple.
Janis
It's control. Plain & simple.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: genant2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
In a message dated 5/21/03 8:07:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jana@... writes:
> A few minutes later I raised my hand again. She made me stand by her desk
> for disobedience. "If you want my attention - then you have it!!"
> I peed right there.
> I couldn't help it.
>
I had an experience like that in 2nd grade. I raised my hand to pee and the
teacher said it cold wait and made me put my head down on the desk for
punishment for disrupting the class. I peed in the seat I had to go so bad.
Then she called my Mom and had to wait during recess for the change of
clothes. Very embarrassing. What is it about teachers and the bathroom.
Wouldn't a person know if they had to go or not.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/20/03 9:06:03 PM, tktraas@... writes:
<< I'm sure it also has to do with how sensitive a child is? Maybe? All
I know, is that it eventually affects us all. >>
Yes, probably.
And how bubbly.
I actually survived it pretty well, but I was only in school 11 years not 13
(no kindergarten and left a year early). Also I had a WHOLE lot (over half
of them) of teachers I realled enjoyed one way or another, and although some
were stupid or mean, I saw it for what it was. I think partly because I
wanted to be a teacher, I was really clinical about the whole thing early on.
I heard the sing-song voice in my 2nd grade teacher sometimes. I saw that
sometimes she was really there and sometimes she was distracted entirely.
Third grade teacher was kind of dull and old and boring. Not mean, but never
exciting. Fourth grade, huge range of everything, and she was smart and
creative (I'm still in contact with her). And so on. So I saw them as
fallible (though I did still wonder whether they lived at school, maybe,
until I was 11 or so) and didn't feel dependent on them for anything except
safety (at which they sometimes failed, but not always).
But as to the original question about the bumper sticker, I think it's a good
one!
And I also think lots of people who would see such a bumper sticker would say
"Thirteen years!? They did me in six! <g>"
Sandra
<< I'm sure it also has to do with how sensitive a child is? Maybe? All
I know, is that it eventually affects us all. >>
Yes, probably.
And how bubbly.
I actually survived it pretty well, but I was only in school 11 years not 13
(no kindergarten and left a year early). Also I had a WHOLE lot (over half
of them) of teachers I realled enjoyed one way or another, and although some
were stupid or mean, I saw it for what it was. I think partly because I
wanted to be a teacher, I was really clinical about the whole thing early on.
I heard the sing-song voice in my 2nd grade teacher sometimes. I saw that
sometimes she was really there and sometimes she was distracted entirely.
Third grade teacher was kind of dull and old and boring. Not mean, but never
exciting. Fourth grade, huge range of everything, and she was smart and
creative (I'm still in contact with her). And so on. So I saw them as
fallible (though I did still wonder whether they lived at school, maybe,
until I was 11 or so) and didn't feel dependent on them for anything except
safety (at which they sometimes failed, but not always).
But as to the original question about the bumper sticker, I think it's a good
one!
And I also think lots of people who would see such a bumper sticker would say
"Thirteen years!? They did me in six! <g>"
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/20/03 9:12:02 PM, tktraas@... writes:
<< I seriously have seen the dull stare in kids as young as 1st grade. Many
of these kids haredly ever spend a whole day with their own families/parents.
Shipped >>
Well I've seen the dull stare from kids a year or two or three old who were
WITH their parents, so not ALL dullality is school-byproduct. Some is
familial, whether nature or nurture (or lack thereof, in either case).
There are kids who give up early, though, and it's so sad to think about.
Don't forget, though, that some people find friends at school who change
their lives in happy, wonderful ways. Some (like me) hadn't been around
adults who had read or travelled or who talked about ideas instead of tractor
parts.
Sandra
<< I seriously have seen the dull stare in kids as young as 1st grade. Many
of these kids haredly ever spend a whole day with their own families/parents.
Shipped >>
Well I've seen the dull stare from kids a year or two or three old who were
WITH their parents, so not ALL dullality is school-byproduct. Some is
familial, whether nature or nurture (or lack thereof, in either case).
There are kids who give up early, though, and it's so sad to think about.
Don't forget, though, that some people find friends at school who change
their lives in happy, wonderful ways. Some (like me) hadn't been around
adults who had read or travelled or who talked about ideas instead of tractor
parts.
Sandra
Heidi
Oh my heck, this is the most depressing thread! Maybe I'm pms'ing or
something, but I'm so sad, reading these awful school experiences. I
think Gatto has it right on, when he says that bathroom issues at
public school are pornographic. He's right. There is something so
twisted and perverse in determining for a child, whether he needs to
go or not, and when. UGH>
Going for a walk to clear my head.
HeidiC
something, but I'm so sad, reading these awful school experiences. I
think Gatto has it right on, when he says that bathroom issues at
public school are pornographic. He's right. There is something so
twisted and perverse in determining for a child, whether he needs to
go or not, and when. UGH>
Going for a walk to clear my head.
HeidiC
--- In [email protected], genant2@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/21/03 8:07:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jana@c... writes:
>
> > A few minutes later I raised my hand again. She made me stand by
her desk
> > for disobedience. "If you want my attention - then you have it!!"
> > I peed right there.
> > I couldn't help it.
> >
>
> I had an experience like that in 2nd grade. I raised my hand to
pee and the
> teacher said it cold wait and made me put my head down on the desk
for
> punishment for disrupting the class. I peed in the seat I had to
go so bad.
> Then she called my Mom and had to wait during recess for the change
of
> clothes. Very embarrassing. What is it about teachers and the
bathroom.
> Wouldn't a person know if they had to go or not.
> Pam G.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 06:23 AM, The Burton Bunch wrote:
humiliation stories -- here is an article in today's papers:
involved is the Southland Independent School District, located along
U.S. Highway 84 between Slaton and Post. "Monday afternoon, she taped
five children's mouths shut, of which my son was one and my son is
asthmatic," says Pam Philips, outraged after her sons 6th grade
english teacher taped his mouth shut after he was disruptive during
class on Monday. "According to my child, she used masking tape on
Monday and told them she would bring duct tape the next day," says
Philips. <<
http://home.abc28.com/Global/story.asp?S=1246625
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Mine was in 1st grade - the teacher used to pull me out of my seat andJust in case people think others are exaggerating their school
> up into the front of the classroom by my ear.....she would then safety
> pin a note on my shirt explaining to my parents what a "bad girl" I
> had been (for the life of my I can't remember what I did that was so
> "bad").
humiliation stories -- here is an article in today's papers:
>>Wednesday, some local parents say a teacher is taking that sametactic from the courtroom to the classroom. The school district
involved is the Southland Independent School District, located along
U.S. Highway 84 between Slaton and Post. "Monday afternoon, she taped
five children's mouths shut, of which my son was one and my son is
asthmatic," says Pam Philips, outraged after her sons 6th grade
english teacher taped his mouth shut after he was disruptive during
class on Monday. "According to my child, she used masking tape on
Monday and told them she would bring duct tape the next day," says
Philips. <<
http://home.abc28.com/Global/story.asp?S=1246625
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Clevenger
From: kbcdlovejo@...
friends in our neighborhood, one of whom he considered his "best friend"
last year. Both of them went to kindergarten this year, and now Mackenzie
doesn't want to play with either one of them. I can see why. Their basic
personalities and ways of playing have totally changed. It's eerie.
These are all kids from really cool families too, parents who I
really like and who are gentle, peaceful people. Kids who were
attachment parented and breastfed to age 4, and a co-sleeping and all of
that. School is just the last bastion though, I'm always amazed at how
otherwise totally radical parents still ship the kids off to kindergarten at
age 5. If I remember right, there was even an extended breastfeeding book
called "Through the Schoolyard Fence" or something like that. I just can't
get why someone who can see that it's okay to still be nursing a 5 year old
also can't see that it's okay just not to send him away! Do away with the
schoolyard fence.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
>This is so sadly true. And it starts so early! My son had two very good
>Cameron's friends who are still in school are dead inside.
friends in our neighborhood, one of whom he considered his "best friend"
last year. Both of them went to kindergarten this year, and now Mackenzie
doesn't want to play with either one of them. I can see why. Their basic
personalities and ways of playing have totally changed. It's eerie.
These are all kids from really cool families too, parents who I
really like and who are gentle, peaceful people. Kids who were
attachment parented and breastfed to age 4, and a co-sleeping and all of
that. School is just the last bastion though, I'm always amazed at how
otherwise totally radical parents still ship the kids off to kindergarten at
age 5. If I remember right, there was even an extended breastfeeding book
called "Through the Schoolyard Fence" or something like that. I just can't
get why someone who can see that it's okay to still be nursing a 5 year old
also can't see that it's okay just not to send him away! Do away with the
schoolyard fence.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Kelli Traaseth
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
**Well I've seen the dull stare from kids a year or two or three old who were
WITH their parents, so not ALL dullality is school-byproduct. Some is
familial, whether nature or nurture (or lack thereof, in either case).**
Yes, I think that's the case with these kids. Its been a hard road with these types of realizations. Ending of friendships with the parents.
Its hard, or I should say impossible, for me to relate to another adult when their children are so neglected.
Kelli
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
OMG!
I can't even imagine.......
Kelli~speechless
I can't even imagine.......
Kelli~speechless
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Breaking the spirit
On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 06:23 AM, The Burton Bunch wrote:
> Mine was in 1st grade - the teacher used to pull me out of my seat and
> up into the front of the classroom by my ear.....she would then safety
> pin a note on my shirt explaining to my parents what a "bad girl" I
> had been (for the life of my I can't remember what I did that was so
> "bad").
Just in case people think others are exaggerating their school
humiliation stories -- here is an article in today's papers:
>>Wednesday, some local parents say a teacher is taking that same
tactic from the courtroom to the classroom. The school district
involved is the Southland Independent School District, located along
U.S. Highway 84 between Slaton and Post. "Monday afternoon, she taped
five children's mouths shut, of which my son was one and my son is
asthmatic," says Pam Philips, outraged after her sons 6th grade
english teacher taped his mouth shut after he was disruptive during
class on Monday. "According to my child, she used masking tape on
Monday and told them she would bring duct tape the next day," says
Philips. <<
http://home.abc28.com/Global/story.asp?S=1246625
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> Just in case people think others are exaggerating their schoolA teacher here on the Island duct taped a kid to his chair last year. The
> humiliation stories -- here is an article in today's papers:
>
> >>Wednesday, some local parents say a teacher is taking that same
> tactic from the courtroom to the classroom. The school district
> involved is the Southland Independent School District, located along
> U.S. Highway 84 between Slaton and Post. "Monday afternoon, she taped
> five children's mouths shut, of which my son was one and my son is
> asthmatic," says Pam Philips, outraged after her sons 6th grade
> english teacher taped his mouth shut after he was disruptive during
> class on Monday. "According to my child, she used masking tape on
> Monday and told them she would bring duct tape the next day," says
> Philips. <<
beat goes on.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Olga
Heidi,
I agree with the bathroom thing. Also, I always remember in junior
high the bathrooms were a wreck. I went to this really nice school
and the majority of the bathrooms had no locks. Here you have 100's
of girls just starting their periods and trying to change their pads
and hold the door with one hand. Especially at that age, the idea of
being caught was soooo embarassing. I think I heard the excuse once
it was so kids would not smoke! Yeah, I think it is easier to hold
the door and smoke than change a pad/tampon!! That one reason would
be enough to keep my kids home. Everyone deserves to do their
business in peace!!
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], "Heidi"
<bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
I agree with the bathroom thing. Also, I always remember in junior
high the bathrooms were a wreck. I went to this really nice school
and the majority of the bathrooms had no locks. Here you have 100's
of girls just starting their periods and trying to change their pads
and hold the door with one hand. Especially at that age, the idea of
being caught was soooo embarassing. I think I heard the excuse once
it was so kids would not smoke! Yeah, I think it is easier to hold
the door and smoke than change a pad/tampon!! That one reason would
be enough to keep my kids home. Everyone deserves to do their
business in peace!!
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], "Heidi"
<bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
> Oh my heck, this is the most depressing thread! Maybe I'm pms'ingor
> something, but I'm so sad, reading these awful school experiences.I
> think Gatto has it right on, when he says that bathroom issues atto
> public school are pornographic. He's right. There is something so
> twisted and perverse in determining for a child, whether he needs
> go or not, and when. UGH>
>
> Going for a walk to clear my head.
>
> HeidiC
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/03 1:02:06 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< "According to my child, she used masking tape on
Imagine what would happen if kids got together and decided they wanted to
tape the teacher "shut" and maybe tape her to her chair? They would be in a
WORLD of trouble, and the teacher would probably resign and sue for therapy costs.
Sandra
<< "According to my child, she used masking tape on
> Monday and told them she would bring duct tape the next day," says<<A teacher here on the Island duct taped a kid to his chair last year. >>
> Philips. <<
Imagine what would happen if kids got together and decided they wanted to
tape the teacher "shut" and maybe tape her to her chair? They would be in a
WORLD of trouble, and the teacher would probably resign and sue for therapy costs.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/2003 2:40:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
in their chairs just taking it when there are 30 of them and one of her.
Amy Kagey
Email me for a list
of used homeschooling books!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
>Interesting point there. I'm thinking about what keeps all the kids sitting
> Imagine what would happen if kids got together and decided they wanted to
> tape the teacher "shut" and maybe tape her to her chair? They would be in a
>
> WORLD of trouble, and the teacher would probably resign and sue for therapy
> costs.
>
in their chairs just taking it when there are 30 of them and one of her.
Amy Kagey
Email me for a list
of used homeschooling books!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/03 3:01:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, leschke@...
writes:
my kids went to last year. The same teacher also put kids in "time out" in a
very small supply closet. There are, unfortunately, atrocities like this
abound in schools, public and private.
I have been reading all the posts about how folks and thier childrens spirits
have been broken by school. I know it happens, I've seen it happen. I would
say that Ethan had his spirit broken by school. Not one specific event,
person, or "thing" , but just the culmination of school in general, broke him and
made him feel inferior and unaccepted.
But for me, personally, and for many many folks I know, they were never
"broken" by school. I thrived in school. I loved it. I had some "not so good"
stuff happen in school, but, nothing traumatic. Anna loved school, she also
thrived and flourished in school. She only had one bad experience and it was
because of a horrid teacher. That experience did not scar her and make her
hate school, she just hated that particular teacher.
I am not discounting any of the horrible things that others have had to
endure. I am just making a point that everyone that goes to school does not get
thier spirit broken.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> A teacher here on the Island duct taped a kid to his chair last year. TheThat also happened to the son of a good friend of mine, in the school that
> beat goes on.
>
my kids went to last year. The same teacher also put kids in "time out" in a
very small supply closet. There are, unfortunately, atrocities like this
abound in schools, public and private.
I have been reading all the posts about how folks and thier childrens spirits
have been broken by school. I know it happens, I've seen it happen. I would
say that Ethan had his spirit broken by school. Not one specific event,
person, or "thing" , but just the culmination of school in general, broke him and
made him feel inferior and unaccepted.
But for me, personally, and for many many folks I know, they were never
"broken" by school. I thrived in school. I loved it. I had some "not so good"
stuff happen in school, but, nothing traumatic. Anna loved school, she also
thrived and flourished in school. She only had one bad experience and it was
because of a horrid teacher. That experience did not scar her and make her
hate school, she just hated that particular teacher.
I am not discounting any of the horrible things that others have had to
endure. I am just making a point that everyone that goes to school does not get
thier spirit broken.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/03 5:50:21 PM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< I am not discounting any of the horrible things that others have had to
endure. I am just making a point that everyone that goes to school does not
get
thier spirit broken.
But what broken-spirit rate is to be considered acceptable loss?
Sandra
<< I am not discounting any of the horrible things that others have had to
endure. I am just making a point that everyone that goes to school does not
get
thier spirit broken.
>>Mine survived.
But what broken-spirit rate is to be considered acceptable loss?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/03 8:28:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
from public school IS very significant, I'm just saying, it's not 100%, thats
all.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Mine survived.Well, I don't think any rate is "acceptable". And the rate of broken spirits
> But what broken-spirit rate is to be considered acceptable loss?
>
> Sandra
>
from public school IS very significant, I'm just saying, it's not 100%, thats
all.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi
when I worked as an aide in a public school for two years, I used to
watch kids coming in from recess, and wonder which ones were low in
the pecking order. It was hard to tell in quick looks at a hallway
full of bodies, but I bet the kids all knew...
HEidiC
watch kids coming in from recess, and wonder which ones were low in
the pecking order. It was hard to tell in quick looks at a hallway
full of bodies, but I bet the kids all knew...
HEidiC
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/20/03 9:12:02 PM, tktraas@p... writes:
>
> << I seriously have seen the dull stare in kids as young as 1st
grade. Many
> of these kids haredly ever spend a whole day with their own
families/parents.
> Shipped >>
>
> Well I've seen the dull stare from kids a year or two or three old
who were
> WITH their parents, so not ALL dullality is school-byproduct. Some
is
> familial, whether nature or nurture (or lack thereof, in either
case).
>
> There are kids who give up early, though, and it's so sad to think
about.
>
> Don't forget, though, that some people find friends at school who
change
> their lives in happy, wonderful ways. Some (like me) hadn't been
around
> adults who had read or travelled or who talked about ideas instead
of tractor
> parts.
>
> Sandra
Kelly Lenhart
>Interesting point there. I'm thinking about what keeps all the kids sittingSomewhere around middle school I figured this one out. That the bottom line
>in their chairs just taking it when there are 30 of them and one of her.
>Amy Kagey
was we, the students, GAVE out teachers their authority in the classroom.
Oooh, did I have trouble after that! I got really picky about how much
authority I was gonna allow and exactly to whom. -grin- I was ok with
getting in trouble for it, but my mom sooooo didn't understand.
Kelly