Heidi

Hey

This could turn into a "rattle off some steam" post, but I do have a
question/need some SOMETHING to get me through an anxious time.

What do you do when you and your partner have widely divergent styles
of thinking? I am a reader and a thinker. Love ideas! Want to delve
deeply into studying things, and really grasp the concepts in the
things I read. I get a true sense of fulfillment in getting out the
dictionaries and encyclopedias, notebooks, pens, etc...study tools...
and deeply exploring things: word meanings, etymology, language,
data, knowledge, facts. I love a mind challenge, and am always
reading. Frequently seen writing, too: letters, journals, stories.
Verbalizing.

As such, my way of thinking "looks" like academic success and I have
proven myself by getting on dean's lists in college and by (don't
laugh. It's my favorite, nearly my only, validation) by scoring VERY
HIGH on all kinds of tests, whether IQ or Mensa challenges, or
whatever. My "style" of thinking looks like a superior intellect on
paper. (Let's not get into what I've actually DONE with high scores
or good grades. Ha! Scoring high on a standardized test means
absolutely ZILCH in the real world. More people have said "what
potential" with a wistful gaze in my direction, than I'd care to
remember)

Anyway. Hubby isn't verbal. His intelligence is spatial. He's not a
big reader, and ideas don't excite him like they do me. He's not a
scholar, but more of a builder. He doesn't score high on standardized
tests, he isn't highly creative. This equates to his not "looking"
intelligent, but he really is genuinely smart, just in a different
way than myself. I look good on paper; he gets on with life and does
what needs doing.

So, now I'm watching my kids and finding out: Abbie is my scholarly
type, and the younger two are not. And it's MAKING ME NUTS! I want
them to read and write and have wonderful insights and make mental
connections in the world of literature...aaaagh!

sorry. The reason this even comes up is: I'm the bigger influence on
the kids than my hubby, as far as modeling behavior. It's easy for me
to get a book down and read, not so easy for my hubby to come up with
things to do that interest him. There's only so many decks you can
build, you know? He does take Robby with him on odd jobs and other
things, but just isn't as involved around the house. So, if my way of
learing is visual/verbal, and my kids' way takes more after their
dad, spatially and kinesthetically...but their dad isn't as involved
in their day to day life as I am...and I model reading and writing,
but they need me to do things...aaaagh!

anyone even slightly understand where I'm coming from?

HeidiC

Mary

.From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>

<<So, if my way of
learing is visual/verbal, and my kids' way takes more after their
dad, spatially and kinesthetically...but their dad isn't as involved
in their day to day life as I am...and I model reading and writing,
but they need me to do things...aaaagh!

anyone even slightly understand where I'm coming from?>>



Have your children come to you asking that you do things with them that you
feel you can't? Are they requesting things that you feel like you just
can't give them because of a difference in personality? Is there someone
else that can provide different activities that they want besides you and
your husband? Other groups or even classes if they ask that they can get
involved in? Has any of it actually happened or are you anticipating the
what ifs?

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/19/03 4:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

> anyone even slightly understand where I'm coming from?
>
> HeidiC
>

I think we may be living in parallel universes.. its uncanny.

I could say DITTO to everything you said. The only thing I can add is that
along with the same type of personality that your husband has, my husband is
also very negative. He has even earned the nickname NEGATOR. He calles it
"realism" I call it a big old buzzkill, spoilsport, killjoy, wet rag.. ..
you get the idea.

One reason I took my kids out of school is because I see the effect that
school has had on my Dh. My two younger boys are a lot like my husband. I
did not want to see them end up being negative with a low self esteem and
having to struggle through life feeling like failures. I wonder how much
of this kind of stuff is just basic personality traits and how much is
"environmental" and circumstantial.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

joanna514

So, if my way of
> learing is visual/verbal, and my kids' way takes more after their
> dad, spatially and kinesthetically...but their dad isn't as
involved
> in their day to day life as I am...and I model reading and writing,
> but they need me to do things...aaaagh!
>
> anyone even slightly understand where I'm coming from?
>
> HeidiC

I don't think you need to be anything than what you already are. Are
you happy with the way you learn and the things you do? If yes, then
you are being a good model. My kids are way more creative than I am.
In different ways from each other too. I don't feel I need to model
a style of learning that is more up their ally. They find their own
way by being given opportunities and freedom. And they usually
really impress me.
Are you giving them the impression that reading and writing is
somehow better than deck building? Just by doing it, you are showing
them that it's something YOU like, but that doesn't mean they are
going to come away with it's better, unless you are somehow giving
that message. (which I'm not implying you are, just tossing ideas
around).
I'm curious as to what you mean by, "they need me to do things".
Do you mean things that you're not interested in, but they are?
There are many ways to facilitate, without having to "do".
I can't imagine trying to do everything my kids are interested in. I
just take them where they need to go, tell them about things that
might interest them....whatever they need.
If your dh does things that your kids seem to be interested in, maybe
encourage him a bit more to include them.
Age counts. My ds Sam started really being able to help his dad when
he was 7 or so. They really started to bond more at that time.
My ds Jack is 6 and not quite there as far as being truely helpful,
so my dh has to show a lot of patience to include him and that's not
really a strong point of his. So, I figure it will come with time,
while encouraging dh to do little things here and there.I hope this
helped. I'm not sure if it's quite where you were going with your
post.
Joanna

[email protected]

Hi Heidi,

I understand where you are coming from. My husband is just like you and I am
just like your husband. I'm the one who likes to build things, can change the
oil on the vehicle and so on and he is more the creative one with his nose
stuck in a book all the time and loves to talk. He is now home all the time,
temporarily (He's an aircraft test pilot) and he is driving me crazy! His
best friend is the dictionary and I don't knock this because it is who he is
and he's a very smart person. Sometimes it gets on my nerves when he carries
on about what he reads but our son really does benefit from it all. Our son
does get a lot from me but not like he gets from his dad and that's okay. I
can't give you any advice because I can't find the words LOL, I just figured
I'd let you know I understand where your coming from. I sometimes ask myself
the same question that you are asking.

Kim

What do you do when you and your partner have widely divergent styles
of thinking? I am a reader and a thinker. Love ideas! Want to delve
deeply into studying things, and really grasp the concepts in the
things I read. I get a true sense of fulfillment in getting out the
dictionaries and encyclopedias, notebooks, pens, etc...study tools...
and deeply exploring things: word meanings, etymology, language,
data, knowledge, facts. I love a mind challenge, and am always
reading. Frequently seen writing, too: letters, journals, stories.
Verbalizing.

As such, my way of thinking "looks" like academic success and I have
proven myself by getting on dean's lists in college and by (don't
laugh. It's my favorite, nearly my only, validation) by scoring VERY
HIGH on all kinds of tests, whether IQ or Mensa challenges, or
whatever. My "style" of thinking looks like a superior intellect on
paper. (Let's not get into what I've actually DONE with high scores
or good grades. Ha! Scoring high on a standardized test means
absolutely ZILCH in the real world. More people have said "what
potential" with a wistful gaze in my direction, than I'd care to
remember)

Anyway. Hubby isn't verbal. His intelligence is spatial. He's not a
big reader, and ideas don't excite him like they do me. He's not a
scholar, but more of a builder. He doesn't score high on standardized
tests, he isn't highly creative. This equates to his not "looking"
intelligent, but he really is genuinely smart, just in a different
way than myself. I look good on paper; he gets on with life and does
what needs doing.

So, now I'm watching my kids and finding out: Abbie is my scholarly
type, and the younger two are not. And it's MAKING ME NUTS! I want
them to read and write and have wonderful insights and make mental
connections in the world of literature...aaaagh!

sorry. The reason this even comes up is: I'm the bigger influence on
the kids than my hubby, as far as modeling behavior. It's easy for me
to get a book down and read, not so easy for my hubby to come up with
things to do that interest him. There's only so many decks you can
build, you know? He does take Robby with him on odd jobs and other
things, but just isn't as involved around the house. So, if my way of
learing is visual/verbal, and my kids' way takes more after their
dad, spatially and kinesthetically...but their dad isn't as involved
in their day to day life as I am...and I model reading and writing,
but they need me to do things...aaaagh!

anyone even slightly understand where I'm coming from?

HeidiC





________________________________________________________________________ >>

Betsy

**There's only so many decks you can build, you know?**

Ooh! Ooh! Over here! I want a deck! I really want a deck. Pretty please!

We've been thinking about building a deck as a summer project, because
my husband is a teacher and is going to have some time on his hands.
But we are building on a steep slope, so I don't know if we are really
going to be able to do the work ourselves. (I think the post holes need
to be exceptionally deep if they are supporting a taller beam. But I
really don't know the right words to discuss the ideas. Right now I
would trade some points of my SAT scores for more "deck intelligence". <g>)


**So, if my way of learing is visual/verbal, and my kids' way takes more
after their dad, spatially and kinesthetically...but their dad isn't as
involved in their day to day life as I am...and I model reading and
writing, but they need me to do things...aaaagh!**

One idea would be to let your dh do more of the picking of toys and
tools for your kids if you think he has better understanding of the way
they learn. Give them money and send them all to the hardware store and
see what happens. <bweg>

Maybe you can learn to enjoy participating in some kinds of
construction? I like building with Legos (they count!) and I'm learning
to like trips to Home Depot (of course I immediately drift to the garden
department). I'm still afraid of power tools, so I'm not a great role
model yet. <g>

Betsy

PS I don't think you being very bookish is harmful to your kids if you
unschool them. It's not the same as having a bookish 1st grade teacher
who makes you read lots of books you don't like and write detailed book
reports about them when you want to run and climb on the monkey bars.
You aren't constraining and compelling your kids in these ways. (I
hope!) Your bookishness probably isn't "bending" or "thwarting" your
kids. Just try to keep it that way. If you find yourself getting all
thwarty you can come on back and we'll give you a lecture. (Do you
learn well from lectures? <g>)

There are a lot of great books written about the idea of multiple
intelligences. So if you like books about ideas you can have fun
reading them. ;-)

Betsy

**He calles it
"realism" I call it a big old buzzkill, spoilsport, killjoy, wet rag..
..
you get the idea. **


I read some articles about research about pessimism and one point that
stuck with me is that pessimists *are* more accurate in their
predictions, but optimists have more fun.

There is a book called Learned Optimism that might help him, if he
believes it's possible and desirable to be less miserable.

**One reason I took my kids out of school is because I see the effect
that
school has had on my Dh.**

Some people, including me, believe that schools teach "learned
helplessness". If a dog in a cage is being shocked and can't get out,
according to experiments after time he will learn that he is trapped in
the cage and won't go out even if the door is open. I think school is a
very disempowering experience for most people. It was for my dh.

Betsy

joanna514

--- In [email protected], Betsy <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
>
>
> I read some articles about research about pessimism and one point
that
> stuck with me is that pessimists *are* more accurate in their
> predictions, but optimists have more fun.
>

My first thought in reading this was, that it is easier to get the
negative out of an experience than it is to get the positive.
i.e. it's a lot easier to fail.

Having a pessimistic outlook, you will probably succeed in your
beliefs unless one of those damned optimists come along and intercede.
Optimists can easily fail, but hey! they probably consider it a
positive learning experience.

Joanna

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/19/03 6:45:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:

> We've been thinking about building a deck as a summer project, because
> my husband is a teacher and is going to have some time on his hands.
> But we are building on a steep slope, so I don't know if we are really
> going to be able to do the work ourselves. (I think the post holes need
> to be exceptionally deep if they are supporting a taller beam. But I
> really don't know the right words to discuss the ideas. Right now I
> would trade some points of my SAT scores for more "deck intelligence

We are building on a steep slope and it can be done. LOL. Jackson did a lot
of research before he got started but the deck is looking gorgeous and is
very large. All you need is a good book. We found one at Home Depot or
Lowes. On of those stores. The book is real specific about what to do and
how to go about it.

He uses that as his unschooling example when talking with other homeschooling
dads. He says that he knew nothing about building a deck but he wanted to do
it so he read and talked with people, at Lowes and Construction workers,
looked things up on line, etc., etc. And that is how he wants his boys to
learn. He wants them to know how to go about learning something that they
are interested in.

Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

> anyone even slightly understand where I'm coming from?
>
Absolutely! This describes my dh, ds and me almost perfectly. I've always
got my nose in a book (or computer screen). The first place I turn when I
want to learn about something new is the library or Internet. I love
learning about things just because. My husband reads for a short time
before going to sleep. When he wants to learn something new, and it has to
be something practical, he turns to people. He'll ask how to do something.
My son hates reading. He does read stuff on the internet but only to find
out something specific, like how much that component he wants for his bike
would cost. When he wants to learn something, and that means how to do
something, he's most likely to just jump right in and try to do it. He
might watch someone else do it. He has tons of mountain biking videos that
he watches a *lot*. I know he's learning from them about biking, but now
that he's interested in film, I think he's learning about editing and camera
work from them as well.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Tia Leschke

Sometimes it gets on my nerves when he carries
> on about what he reads but our son really does benefit from it all. Our
son
> does get a lot from me but not like he gets from his dad and that's okay.
I
> can't give you any advice because I can't find the words LOL, I just
figured
> I'd let you know I understand where your coming from. I sometimes ask
myself
> the same question that you are asking.

I used to worry that my dh and I were so different, not just learning styles
but likes and interests as well. Then I realized that Lars has been exposed
to way more than if his parents liked all the same things and learned the
same way.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Heidi

Thanks Joanna

Are
> you happy with the way you learn and the things you do? If yes,
then
> you are being a good model.

SNIP

They find their own
> way by being given opportunities and freedom.

Okay, now I begin to understand. Because my younger kids are goers, I
thought I had to be a goer in order to meet their needs. They do go
with me, on hikes and rock hopping and the like. I guess I was
worried I wasn't keeping them busy enough.

And my hubby, though his intelligence is more spatial, he isn't much
of a goer, either. Someone mentioned pessimism...this is a weakness
that he and I share, unfortunately. Both of us tend to act slowly,
rather than rapidly, introverted more than outgoing, etc...

but I think your answer makes a lot of sense: model my own enjoyment
of learning, and they'll find their way of enjoying learning, too.

Good!


> Are you giving them the impression that reading and writing is
> somehow better than deck building? Just by doing it, you are
showing
> them that it's something YOU like, but that doesn't mean they are
> going to come away with it's better, unless you are somehow giving
> that message. (which I'm not implying you are, just tossing ideas
> around).

This is something to keep in mind. As a ps'er, though my grades were
awful, and I did not do well socially, I always scored REALLY high in
any test. Standardized tests seem to fit with a visual/verbal style
of intelligence, more than a spatial/kinesthetic style, therefore
people who score high seem to be "more intelligent." I have come to
learn that standardized tests mean nothing at all in the real world,
but that old way of thinking ("Look at that TEST SCORE!!! wow! Me
smart!") sticks something fierce. So far, I think I've managed to
avoid passing this attitude to my kids, though.

Thanks for the input!

HeidiC

Heidi

--- In [email protected], Betsy <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
>
>
> **There's only so many decks you can build, you know?**
>
> Ooh! Ooh! Over here! I want a deck! I really want a deck.
Pretty please!
>
> We've been thinking about building a deck as a summer project,
because
> my husband is a teacher and is going to have some time on his
hands.
> But we are building on a steep slope, so I don't know if we are
really
> going to be able to do the work ourselves. (I think the post holes
need
> to be exceptionally deep if they are supporting a taller beam. But
I
> really don't know the right words to discuss the ideas. Right now I
> would trade some points of my SAT scores for more "deck
intelligence". <g>)

I love the deck he built for me two summers ago. It wraps around from
just that side of the front door, clear back to level with the back
of the house. A VERY pleasant sitting place in the evenings, as the
house faces to the southeast, and the setting sun is hot in the back,
but the shade in the front is sublime.


> One idea would be to let your dh do more of the picking of toys and
> tools for your kids if you think he has better understanding of the
way
> they learn. Give them money and send them all to the hardware
store and
> see what happens. <bweg>
>
> Maybe you can learn to enjoy participating in some kinds of
> construction? I like building with Legos (they count!) and I'm
learning
> to like trips to Home Depot (of course I immediately drift to the
garden
> department). I'm still afraid of power tools, so I'm not a great
role
> model yet. <g>

What a SUPER idea! I love it! Robby could get him a dremel, and Katie
would probably love the paints and paintbrushes! cool.

Thanks betsy! :)

HeidiC


> There are a lot of great books written about the idea of multiple
> intelligences. So if you like books about ideas you can have fun
> reading them. ;-)

Heidi

--- In [email protected], grlynbl@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/19/03 4:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bunsofaluminum60@h... writes:
>
> > anyone even slightly understand where I'm coming from?
> >
> > HeidiC
> >
>
> I think we may be living in parallel universes.. its uncanny.
>
> I could say DITTO to everything you said. The only thing I can
add is that
> along with the same type of personality that your husband has, my
husband is
> also very negative. He has even earned the nickname NEGATOR. He
calles it
> "realism" I call it a big old buzzkill, spoilsport, killjoy, wet
rag.. ..
> you get the idea.
>
> One reason I took my kids out of school is because I see the effect
that
> school has had on my Dh. My two younger boys are a lot like my
husband. I
> did not want to see them end up being negative with a low self
esteem and
> having to struggle through life feeling like failures. I wonder
how much
> of this kind of stuff is just basic personality traits and how much
is
> "environmental" and circumstantial.
>
> Teresa

Wow. My hubby isn't negative, per se, but a bit of a pessimist about
things, and so am I. Where he and our son are in lock-step is in
their hatred of being nagged or talked into doing things. I've had to
keep my tongue inside my head on many issues, because I don't want my
boy to have the same "Can't do anything right" that I sometimes see
in his dad. And I think it was his mother, more than school, that has
kept my hubby down and brought out his passivity. I don't want to be
to my son, what my mil is to my hubby: a nagging shrew who knows how
to do everything (in her own mind, but not in truth), and better than
anyone else. (ditto)

So I need to lay off the kid, and let him grow in his direction,
supplying the trestle so to speak. Guidance, support, assistance as
he requests it.

yeah. Thanks, Teresa

HeidiC

[email protected]

ecsamhill@... writes:

<< There is a book called Learned Optimism that might help him, if he
believes it's possible and desirable to be less miserable. >>

Great book, great author, Martin Seligman. He's got a website, too,
www.positivepsychology.org

He also wrote:
Optimistic Child: A Proven Program to Safeguard Children Against Depression
and Building Lifelong Resilience

His most recent book is Authentic Happiness. Really very good.

http://www.authentichappiness.org

You take questionairres to take stock of your personality and see what traits
are getting in the way of being happy, and which ones, strengthened and
encouraged, can help make you happier. It's really very helpful, I thought.


~Aimee