Gary & Lisa Williams

Thank you so much for sharing your day Jennifer. It was very soothing and
will give me patience for my day!
Homeschooler transitioning to Unschooler!, Lisa

> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 02:22:13 -0500
> From: "jmcseals SEALS" <jmcseals@...>
> Re: One Lurker Says Hi
>
> Hi Lurker! :)
>
> <<Do any of you ever feel like you don't
> have enough patience for this job?>>
>
> Oh heavens yes! This could not have come at a better time. We are down
to
> the wire in finding a house. The fridge AND the ac went out this week.
My
> children learned how to unlock the front door and I don't have a way to
get
> to the store to get a Houdini-proof lock. Yesterday, the kids and I
walked
> to McDonalds for a cool indoor break and a *cold* drink. My dear sweet
> Ethan decided to strip naked, including his dirty diaper, in the play-gym
> and appeared from the slide in his birthday suit in front of about 20
> people. I'm trying to pack, find a house, give my husband directions in
> Columbia, SC while being in Texas and not seeing all the streets he's
seeing
> on the map so feeling hopelessly lost even though I'm the one at home,
> reading the dang map! I hate being hot. Hot makes me incredibly cranky.
> Chloe has been screaming all day and the carpet in THREE rooms is soaking
> wet because the ac flooded. My husband will be home in three hours and
the
> house is a wreck.
>
> If it isn't obvious, I'm feeling quite sorry for myself. <pitiful grin>
>
> BUT, it's Sunday. Nicholette got a phonics turbo blaster for her
birthday
> and she has been spelling words for me all day. Lauren learned how to
spell
> ON and OFF and wrote it on a piece of paper, along with her name and a
> beautiful picture and presented it to me as a gift. I found myself
thinking
> how wonderful it is that we are unschoolers. We had Nic's birthday party
> today and my cousin was griping because tomorrow is a school day. She's
> been at camp all weekend and feels too tired to go back to school in the
> morning. She didn't feel like going home and reading for homework. My
kids
> were doing it for fun! For the excitement and joy of learning! How
blessed
> we truly are!
>
> While cleaning out the laundry room cabinets (the equivilant of most
> peoples' 'junk drawers' only 80 times as big) I found newborn pictures of
> Chloe and the cutest picture of all the kids on hands and knees crawling
> away from the camera in a long side-by-side line. I hung my gift from
> Laurie on the fridge to help me smile while going about my dreary business
> at hand. Instead of packing away the pictures of Chloe and the kids, I
> grabbed a coke and took a break to remember the joy and peace of her birth
> and what a fun day we had that day. When I came in the house, Ethan was
> sitting in the kitchen floor with empty cupcake papers and the salt and
> pepper, making 'birthday cakes'. I had just mopped the kitchen floor. I
> just wanted to scream and cry. Instead, I grabbed him and carried him off
> to bed. I sang him a soft song and rubbed his beautiful face until he
fell
> asleep. For an hour, I went from room to room, carressing my sleeping
> little angels. Little by little my patience returned. A wave of peace
> washed over me.
>
> Our sheets still haven't made it into the washer. The house is still a
> mess. But my kids are all sleeping peacefully. I have a beautful picture
> hanging on my fridge that no professional artist nor writer could ever
> compare with. There are no alarm clocks set, no homework due. When the
> kids wake up their Daddy will be home and they will scream with joy to see
> him again. And they will have all day to be with him and catch up on the
> latest lost tooth, the birthday party he missed and tell him all the new
> words they learned to spell. He'll get to hear Chloe say Dada for the
first
> time with his own ears as the girls all sit around praising her as if she
> were the smartest baby ever born. He'll be gone again before week's end
so
> we have precious little time to savor with him. I am thankful they are
> home, were they belong, for if they were in school, they would miss these
> beautiful moments.
>
> I can only say, look for every shining light in every day. If there were
no
> sour, trying moments, what need would we have for patience? Through
trial
> and error, we become better parents. Better people. If we can see the
> light in the face of darkness we become more loving, patient and giving
> individuals. This job we women hold as mothers (among so many others)
> makes us better people. We are changing the world, not just for our
> children but by them and through them. Every life they touch is a
> reflection of our own. We are held accountable for every mistake we
make
> and thanked for far less than we deserve. It IS the hardest job a woman
> could ever have. It is also the most rewarding. If we can stop and find
> even the smallest particle of hope, the slightest little reward, we
somehow
> find the patience to move on and in the process, we find new solutions,
> better choices, and create happier lives. We learn that our job pays
better
> than any check ever written. We are paid in love, smiles, hugs and
kisses,
> and bright little eyes that sparkle with each new discovery. But perhaps
> even more valueable, our children look into *our* eyes for comfort and
find
> peace after a skinned toe, a broken toy or a love-torn heart. It is a
hard
> job, but it is priceless. Sometimes, we just need to reach out for a
little
> reminder. :)
>
> I wish I could offer you a cup overflowing with patience, but I haven't
> found a vendor! LOL Just breath, take that moment to find your shining
> light and your cup will overflow!
>
> Jennifer
>
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:50:00 EDT
> From: warblwarbl@...
> Subject: Re: writing, patience
>
> In a message dated 5/18/2003 12:24:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
>
> > Maybe he was motivated by the challenge and not the popsicle? It was a
> > tough stretch for him but he did it! Maybe he enjoyed the satisfaction
> > more than the treat?
>
>
> Yeah, you're probably right. He balked today about writing "Happy
Birthday
> Grandpa" on the card he drew. But then, I was pushing it so Grandpa could
> see that he could do it and *I* wouldn't be under so much pressure. I am
> such a wimp sometimes. And yes, I often feel that I'm not patient enough
for
> this job! Not patient enough with my children, not patient enough with
the
> process of unschooling.
>
> Still, I'm better than I used to be. I'm more proactive about praising
> unschooling from the rooftops <g> and less likely to run away from
> questioning/criticism with my tail between my legs. Lately I've been
saying
> to the family sceptics, "It's just so amazing and powerful and lasting and
> meaningful when kids can create their own ways of learning." They think
I'm
> off my rocker and shut up.
>
> And I thank this list for building my confidence. If I'd stayed on this
list
> (AOL boards) back in '96, I probably would have dealt with the family way
> better way earlier.
>
> Pam T.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:12:16 -0500
> From: "jmcseals SEALS" <jmcseals@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: peace and dramatic cluelessness - Parking
>
> **Ah, I lost one. A woman I'd known since I was ten. A mom. I miss
her
> every day. I loved her.***
>
> Deb,
>
> I'm so sorry. I think I've lost my friend as well. I feel the same way
you
> do. We've been best friends for over 13 years. I say *think* because she
> just stopped taking my calls and won't speak to me.
>
> **But I wouldn't trade my sons happiness and
> freedom to get her love back.**
>
> I know. It's hard. Life has been so completely crazy the past couple of
> weeks and it's hard not to reach for the phone and dial her number when
I'm
> pulling my hair out crying. I don't think it's just unschooling tha does
> this to friendships. In my case, it ran the whole gamut of parenting
> differences. I'm looking hard for the good side to this and the only
thing
> I can come up with is that it is forcing me to get off my ass and make
some
> new friends. Now I have the 'hindsight' which helps to know to look for
> like-minded people, even though at 15, you really have no idea where you
> will be that far down the road. :)
>
> Jennifer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:21:26 -0400
> From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Itsbeenaminute
>
> on 5/18/03 11:37 PM, HMSL2@... at HMSL2@... wrote:
>
> > The list goes on all weekend about HER and you expect her not to post!
>
> The list has gone on about the ideas she stirred up and about the effects
> she's had on the list.
>
> When it's been personal it's been about Sandra :-/
>
> Glena said she was done. Apparently she wasn't.
>
> And that's not about Glena. It's about the idea of integrity and using
words
> to mean what they say. It's about the effect our personal philosophies can
> have on how well we can get what we want from life.
>
> You've been here a month. Glena's been here 4.
>
> (Hmm. Her joining coincides with the increase in numbers of posts. The
past
> couple of weeks have been busy with unschooling talk and I was projecting
> that back and assuming the massive numbers of posts (nearly double the
> normal rate) in January and April were also unschooling. But I'm betting
at
> least January was Glena too.)
>
> The list has been incredibly patient with Glena's inability to understand
> what she writes and her inability to understand what others write. Any
anger
> towards her claims is understandable to those who've been trying to read
> every post since January.
>
> > Get off your horse, say something other than running behind someone
else's
> > words and get over it for cry-n out loud.
>
> That is personal. Not about ideas. Not about unschooling. Not about
helping
> the list work better. (Though we really shouldn't be talking about the
list,
> it does come up. And I think it's helpful to clarify what the purpose of
the
> list is and how it works.)
>
> > Im glad she is back all
> > the talking this weekend should have ended while she was gone and it
didn't.
>
> It's because the ideas her posts sparked are important to people.
>
> > Maybe you should go away for a weekend we will all blast you in a
hundred or
> > so emails and you try to zip it!
>
> Let's not.
>
> But if Tory or anyone promises not to speak further on something then
> they'll lose integrity if they don't. And people on the list will be less
> likely to trust what they say.
>
> If people use words to mean what they say, the list works a whole lot
better
> at helping people.
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:32:33 -0400
> From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
> Subject: Re: One Lurker Says Hi
>
> on 5/18/03 11:44 PM, Nicholina ODonnell at arodonn@... wrote:
>
> > Do any of you ever feel like you don't have enough patience for this
job?
> > Sometimes I wonder about myself....
>
> Yes, of course! Though my faults lie more with slothfulness. ;-)
>
> I think it helps to not look at unschooling as the ideal we should be but
as
> the goal we should keep focused on. Rather than looking at a mistake and
> beating ourselves up for what we should have done, we can look at it and
> figure out how we could handle it better next time. It also helps to look
at
> the bigger picture. Rather than focusing on the scene and what you could
> have done with the melt down, look at what you could have done to prevent
> the melt down. Like maybe taking snacks with you, or give yourself
> permission to stop and take a mall food break, or do smaller shopping
trips,
> or only shop when she can stay with someone else.
>
> It also helps to look at things through your children's eyes. A shopping
> trip, though seemingly necessary and something *you* have to put up with,
is
> like being dragged by your husband to a stock car race where you have to
sit
> and "behave" for hours and hours. And you can't take a book. You can't
> wander around. You need to just wait until he's done. And maybe he'll get
> you a snack if he thinks you need it. And maybe he'll leave early if you
> burst into tears. But maybe he'll just get angry.
>
> I'm not saying that's what happened. But to our kids it can look that way.
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 08:01:13 -0400
> From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Itsbeenaminute
>
> In a message dated 5/18/03 5:39:49 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
> >
> > I know what I meant and if in my heart I know that I validated my
> > daughters question and responded to her in a way that satisfied her,
then it
> > really shouldn't be something that is an issue, and so many years later
too.
>
> And that's the heart of the whole issue. The issue isn't what was done or
> what worked or how well someone is able to read a situation with their
> child, but whether it's a principle that others can use. Validating
feelings
> is good. Responding in ways that satisfy is good. But the list needs
> examples so that people can understand how those principles work in
> practice. This example created the *opposite* image in people's minds.
>
> Even if Glena was right and she read her daughter's needs and the
situation
> and did validate feelings and satisfied her, the example didn't help
anyone
> understand how to do that with their own kids. It, in fact, would have had
> the opposite effect if someone else had tried it.
>
> No matter how good someone is at being an unschooler or being a mindful
> parent, if they can't convey examples so others can help themselves be
> better at unschooling or mindful parenting then they can't be much help on
a
> list. Maybe they'd be great at a support group where people can see them
in
> action. Maybe they'd only be great for their kids. (Which is ultimately
> what's important.) And it's especially bad if someone gives examples that
> create the opposite impression for other people.
>
> Glena is reading the criticism as though it's criticism of her and that
> people are thinking bad things about her. But the criticism is about the
> idea and whether it has created something that can help people on the list
> become better parents. And the answer is no, it didn't. (Though the
> resulting discussion about really meaning "in a minute" when you say "in a
> minute" did!)
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:36:55 -0000
> From: "Olga" <britcontoo@...>
> Subject: Re: One Lurker Says Hi
>
> Do I ever understand!! My kids are the same age and my 2 yo is my
> challange. I have realized alot since joining the list and have made
> a few changes that have helped me. He has a heck of a temper and
> when he is mad he starts throwing his body around, throwing things of
> tables, will NOT let you hold or console him and usually ends up
> getting hurt in the process <sigh>. I have made a huge effort lately
> to really pay attention to his cues so things do not escalate and
> that is helping alot. I am also much more flexible with his
> demands. The other day he wanted juice, so I got a juice, still
> moaning. DO you want milk? okay, than a change of mind. After a few
> minutes of struggle he wanted a regular cup with ice tea like a big
> boy..LOL! Of course he spilled it a minute later..LOL! I never
> would have continued to figure out the problem in the past. It took
> less time then one of his tantrums and left an overall feeling of
> peace. Anyway, we still have some really difficult moments and I
> feel tears come because I don't feel I handled it in the best way.
> At least our consciousness of the problem and desire to change are a
> step in the right direction!!
>
> Olga :)
>
> --- In [email protected], "Nicholina ODonnell"
> <arodonn@e...> wrote:
> > With all the talk about those who don't post, I thought I'd
> introduce myself as one of those non-posters, there-by removing
> myself from that catigory. :)
> >
> > I've been lurking for about a month now and enjoy the list, though
> occationally do mass deletes to catch up. That is the reason for my
> lack of posting. I feel like I should be reading everything to make
> an informed decision before putting my 2 bits out there, but just
> don't always find the time to get through them all.
> >
> > I'm mom to a 5 year old and have intended not to send her to school
> nor do school at home sense she was about 2 and I discovered
> unschooling. I first discovered Taking Children Seriously, which,
> while I think it's a nice ideal, I have some trouble with it. My
> problem is if I'm not meeting an ideal, I feel like a failure.
> Anyway, I try my best to be respectful and thoughful toward Davan and
> try not to beat myself up too much. Where I was trying to go with
> that was to say, it lead me toward unschooling, which is something I
> can work with and is a great way of life.
> >
> > I have to say, though, that lately I've been feeling like I am not
> patient and creative enough with problem solving with Davan. We
> ended up having quite a bad seance at a store today. I think Davan
> was hungry, which led to some of the difficulties, but it gets me so
> down when she ends up crying and angry and I end up angry and not the
> nicest of people in return. Do any of you ever feel like you don't
> have enough patience for this job? Sometimes I wonder about
> myself....
> >
> > So, here I am, and I imagine that now I've broken the ice with my
> first post, there will be more to follow. :)
> >
> > Nicholina
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 08:40:58 EDT
> From: kbcdlovejo@...
> Subject: Re: One Lurker Says Hi
>
> In a message dated 5/18/2003 11:45:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> arodonn@... writes:
>
>
> > I have to say, though, that lately I've been feeling like I am not
patient
> > and creative enough with problem solving with Davan. We ended up having
> > quite a bad seance at a store today. I think Davan was hungry, which
led
> > to some of the difficulties, but it gets me so down when she ends up
crying
> > and angry and I end up angry and not the nicest of people in return. Do
> > any of you ever feel like you don't have enough patience for this job?
> > Sometimes I wonder about myself....
> >
> > So, here I am, and I imagine that now I've broken the ice with my first
> > post, there will be more to follow. :)
> >
> > Nicholina
> >
>
> I'll recommend ordering Sandra's tape, "Peaceful Parenting". Baby steps.
We
> can become more patient with baby steps. Get her tape.
> And welcome to the list!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 08:53:09 EDT
> From: KathrynJB@...
> Subject: Wonderful, exhausting Weekend
>
> I wanted to share the weekend we had because it's just so cool.
>
> It was a busy weekend. Julian, who is 13, has been preparing to sign with
the
> cool group called the Mystic Chorale. It's a group of over 200 singers,
then
> a jazz band and drummers, all older than him, only one other teen. It's
been
> ten weeks of getting him to Arlington for rehearsals, which is just far
> enough to be a pain in the ass. (Whoever drives ends up sitting around for
> hours during the rehearsal.) But he had two concerts this weekend and it
was
> incredible. Really amazing music. And Julian just glowed up there!
>
> The other thing that happened this weekend was we had Children's Sunday at
> the Unitarian Universalist church where I am the Director of Religious
> Education. I do Children's Sunday a bit differently than a lot of
> churches...it tends to be mostly adult-driven, with the kids doing
> presentations for the adults. Instead, I have the kids lead a real,
regular
> service for the adults. Usually I work out the details, and the kids sign
up,
> but this year, the kids did most of the planning. They chose the hymns and
> readings, they figured out homilies, etc. They also did original artwork
on
> each of the covers for the orders of service. Julian sang "The Circle
Game,"
> and other kids did other music, including one kid who wrote a welcome song
> and sang it.
>
> Some of the kids wrote and performed a short play on Creation, this
hilarious
> thing that started with the Bible Creation story (God said, Let there be
> light. And a kid comes out and puts a flashlight on the worship table. On
the
> seventh day, God rested, and one kid came out with a teddy bear and
blankie,
> looked around at all the props taken out earlier, gave a smile and a
> thumbs-up, then curled up on the floor with a yawn.), then a Chinese
creation
> myth of an egg, then, using one of those popper things that makes a loud
> noise and send out streamers, we had The Big Bang, followed by a rain of
> beanie babies. The end line was "And it was good."
>
> They were amazing!!!! The adults of the congregation were so impressed
with
> what an incredible job they did.
>
> Now Kathryn must rest (and play with her new expansion for The Sims!!!!)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:04:50 EDT
> From: grlynbl@...
> Subject: Re: Smoking "solutions"
>
> In a message dated 5/19/03 12:18:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> pamsoroosh@... writes:
>
> > Do you have any insight as to why your posts don't elicit suggestions
> > but those of other people with similar situations do?
> >
> > Just wondering.
> >
> > -pam
> >
> >
>
> Yes I do.
>
> Teresa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:21:07 +0200
> From: Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 3520
>
> 5/19/03 04:34:
>
> > Do you know if the digests count as the same amount of space as the
> > individual emails? My ds-6 with medical disabilities is often
> > hospitalized suddenly, and it can be days before I check my email.
> > My mailbox has been shut down twice because of excessive mail, and
> > I'm afraid of tempting fate with a third event. Consequently, I read
> > the mail at the website...it's inconvenient, but I've been able to
> > keep my mailbox from self-destructing.
>
> I have no idea what your service provider would think of this, but can you
> get a second email box for little or no money? Then you could subscribe
to
> your groups there, and if it self-destructs, no loss of other more
valuable
> email.
>
> Just an idea.
>
> brenda
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:21:08 +0200
> From: Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@...>
> Subject: Re: ?? forgot the name of this thread
>
> 5/19/03 06:20:
>
> > I feel like I should be reading everything to make an informed
> > decision before putting my 2 bits out there, but just don't always find
the
> > time to get through them all.
>
> Welcome, Nicholina. Many people occasionally do mass deleting or go on no
> mail for a time. Read what you can, and then post what you feel will
help.
> There is no requirement to read everything!
> >
> > I have to say, though, that lately I've been feeling like I am not
patient and
> > creative enough with problem solving with Davan.
>
> Every day? Or just sometimes? I'm not a perfect parent. There are days
I
> should be more patient and I'm not. I know how to apologize, though, and
> try to remember to do so. And I have learned more patience and creativity
> with effort in that direction. It's something I have really worked on.
>
> > Do any of you ever
> > feel like you don't have enough patience for this job? Sometimes I
wonder
> > about myself....
>
> Yes, sometimes I wonder about myself, too.
>
> But you're dealing with a five year old. She's just a little girl now,
and
> it will get easier as she gets older. Mine is six, heading towards seven
> this summer, and he's grown so much in the last year, it's just amazing.
> Some of this is age.
>
> I know I'm not the person I want to be, and sometimes I'm discouraged by
> that. But I also know that there is nowhere else my child could be where
he
> would receive as much respect as he gets at home. Certainly he wouldn't
get
> it at school! And we're both pretty happy, really.
>
> > So, here I am, and I imagine that now I've broken the ice with my first
post,
> > there will be more to follow. :)
>
> Good!
>
> brenda
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
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