Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] writing, was conference
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/18/2003 12:29:34 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
Until last night, when we were at a Greek Festival and we looked at a booth
where they were offering a free popsicle for kids who completed a 10 or 12
question quiz based on these posters about Greece. He really wanted to do
it, even though we would have bought him all the popsicles he wanted (since
we were really there to pig out <g>). I asked him if he wanted me to write
down the answers for him, assuming he'd ask me to, but he wanted to do it
himself. A first!
So in this crowded noisy and sometimes hot place, he squatted down on the
cement and wrote probably 30 or 40 words. I spelled almost all of them for
him, reminding my voice to be very patient or else this might end in
frustration like other times when I let that irritated tone creep into my
voice. And he did it.
Very exciting. But I do have to wonder why he was so motivated by a popsicle
prize?
Pam T.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
>Ditto here.
> **He hasn't wanted to write
> and I was hoping for some enlightenment there soon.**
>
> My son doesn't write at all. I mean he can't even form all of the
> letters of the alphabet without hints. I think his fine motor skills
> are just "late" compared to school standards. This is scary for me, but
> he hates being "noodged", so I know it would be counterproductive. (As
> well as immoral, un-unschooling-y, and probably fattening <g>)
>
>
Until last night, when we were at a Greek Festival and we looked at a booth
where they were offering a free popsicle for kids who completed a 10 or 12
question quiz based on these posters about Greece. He really wanted to do
it, even though we would have bought him all the popsicles he wanted (since
we were really there to pig out <g>). I asked him if he wanted me to write
down the answers for him, assuming he'd ask me to, but he wanted to do it
himself. A first!
So in this crowded noisy and sometimes hot place, he squatted down on the
cement and wrote probably 30 or 40 words. I spelled almost all of them for
him, reminding my voice to be very patient or else this might end in
frustration like other times when I let that irritated tone creep into my
voice. And he did it.
Very exciting. But I do have to wonder why he was so motivated by a popsicle
prize?
Pam T.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Olga
Wow, Pam that is wonderful. Doesn't it feel amazing when they do it
on their own. A few weeks ago me and my ds were playing with
stampers making heiroglyphics. He loved the idea and I thought since
he hated writing it would be a great project for him, non stress. To
my delight and suprise, he gave up on the stamps shortly and made his
own heiroglyphics, coloring and drawing all sorts of Egypt things for
over an hour! That is the longest he has ever shown interst in
holding a pencil..LOL!
Olga :)
on their own. A few weeks ago me and my ds were playing with
stampers making heiroglyphics. He loved the idea and I thought since
he hated writing it would be a great project for him, non stress. To
my delight and suprise, he gave up on the stamps shortly and made his
own heiroglyphics, coloring and drawing all sorts of Egypt things for
over an hour! That is the longest he has ever shown interst in
holding a pencil..LOL!
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], warblwarbl@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/18/2003 12:29:34 AM Central Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
>
> >
> > **He hasn't wanted to write
> > and I was hoping for some enlightenment there soon.**
> >
> > My son doesn't write at all. I mean he can't even form all of the
> > letters of the alphabet without hints. I think his fine motor
skills
> > are just "late" compared to school standards. This is scary for
me, but
> > he hates being "noodged", so I know it would be
counterproductive. (As
> > well as immoral, un-unschooling-y, and probably fattening <g>)
> >
> >
>
> Ditto here.
>
> Until last night, when we were at a Greek Festival and we looked at
a booth
> where they were offering a free popsicle for kids who completed a
10 or 12
> question quiz based on these posters about Greece. He really
wanted to do
> it, even though we would have bought him all the popsicles he
wanted (since
> we were really there to pig out <g>). I asked him if he wanted me
to write
> down the answers for him, assuming he'd ask me to, but he wanted to
do it
> himself. A first!
>
> So in this crowded noisy and sometimes hot place, he squatted down
on the
> cement and wrote probably 30 or 40 words. I spelled almost all of
them for
> him, reminding my voice to be very patient or else this might end
in
> frustration like other times when I let that irritated tone creep
into my
> voice. And he did it.
>
> Very exciting. But I do have to wonder why he was so motivated by
a popsicle
> prize?
>
> Pam T.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SARA
Pam....we experienced something almost indentical to this at 8yo and
after our experience, he took off.
I'm still worried though. Pete is twelve; he had a humiliating
moment at a scout function in January. Everyone else could jot notes
quickly and he got very upset because he couldn't keep up. The
frustration paralyzed him and a friend came and got me. It was just
a few sentences he had to complete but there was a rigid timeframe
and he cried..."I failed Mom; they said I failed because I'm not
done yet". I wanted to lash out at the scout instructor but we left,
cooled down and finished at lunch time. One could say it was a
motivating experience but it sure as heck wasn't one of those
good "aha, I got it "moments like the one below. I went home and
cried too.
"So in this crowded noisy and sometimes hot place, he squatted down
on the cement and wrote probably 30 or 40 words. I spelled almost
all of them for him, reminding my voice to be very patient or else
this might end in frustration like other times when I let that
irritated tone creep into my voice. And he did it. Very exciting.
But I do have to wonder why he was so motivated by a popsicle prize?
Pam T.
after our experience, he took off.
I'm still worried though. Pete is twelve; he had a humiliating
moment at a scout function in January. Everyone else could jot notes
quickly and he got very upset because he couldn't keep up. The
frustration paralyzed him and a friend came and got me. It was just
a few sentences he had to complete but there was a rigid timeframe
and he cried..."I failed Mom; they said I failed because I'm not
done yet". I wanted to lash out at the scout instructor but we left,
cooled down and finished at lunch time. One could say it was a
motivating experience but it sure as heck wasn't one of those
good "aha, I got it "moments like the one below. I went home and
cried too.
"So in this crowded noisy and sometimes hot place, he squatted down
on the cement and wrote probably 30 or 40 words. I spelled almost
all of them for him, reminding my voice to be very patient or else
this might end in frustration like other times when I let that
irritated tone creep into my voice. And he did it. Very exciting.
But I do have to wonder why he was so motivated by a popsicle prize?
Pam T.
Betsy
**Very exciting. But I do have to wonder why he was so motivated by a
popsicle prize?**
Hi, Pam --
::: waving :::
Maybe he was motivated by the challenge and not the popsicle? It was a
tough stretch for him but he did it! Maybe he enjoyed the satisfaction
more than the treat?
Betsy
popsicle prize?**
Hi, Pam --
::: waving :::
Maybe he was motivated by the challenge and not the popsicle? It was a
tough stretch for him but he did it! Maybe he enjoyed the satisfaction
more than the treat?
Betsy
Tia Leschke
> I'm still worried though. Pete is twelve; he had a humiliatingWhen Lars moved from Cubs to Scouts they started the note-taking thing. We
> moment at a scout function in January. Everyone else could jot notes
> quickly and he got very upset because he couldn't keep up. The
> frustration paralyzed him and a friend came and got me. It was just
> a few sentences he had to complete but there was a rigid timeframe
> and he cried..."I failed Mom; they said I failed because I'm not
> done yet". I wanted to lash out at the scout instructor but we left,
> cooled down and finished at lunch time. One could say it was a
> motivating experience but it sure as heck wasn't one of those
> good "aha, I got it "moments like the one below. I went home and
> cried too.
talked with the leader ahead of time about the writing. He told us that a
lot of the schooled kids also have problems with it. He did try to make it
as easy on Lars as he could, not pressuring to finish, etc.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Deborah Lewis
***Pete is twelve; he had a humiliating
moment at a scout function in January.***
I'm sorry that happened to him.
I hope you can help him to not feel so bad about the whole thing.
That's crappy.
He never had a reason to have to write before, that's all. Lots of
people aren't great at a thing if it's the first time they've needed to
do it. Someone might have a heck of a time with driving a standard
transmission if all at once they're made to do it.
Schools get kids writing early so they can demonstrate they're learning
stuff. It's hard to do stacks of worksheets without writing. But
unschoolers only need to write when they want or have their own reasons
to.
It wasn't that he couldn't write well enough that was the problem in that
scenario, it was the others silly expectation of what he should be doing.
Maybe you already told him that.
Deb L
moment at a scout function in January.***
I'm sorry that happened to him.
I hope you can help him to not feel so bad about the whole thing.
That's crappy.
He never had a reason to have to write before, that's all. Lots of
people aren't great at a thing if it's the first time they've needed to
do it. Someone might have a heck of a time with driving a standard
transmission if all at once they're made to do it.
Schools get kids writing early so they can demonstrate they're learning
stuff. It's hard to do stacks of worksheets without writing. But
unschoolers only need to write when they want or have their own reasons
to.
It wasn't that he couldn't write well enough that was the problem in that
scenario, it was the others silly expectation of what he should be doing.
Maybe you already told him that.
Deb L
SARA
Tia, I'm thinking the schooled kids that have some of the same
problems are either used to not going fast enough and just sitting
there or maybe not caring? I don't mean to sound critical of
schooled kids but I'm thinking this is old hat to them...when they
don't get something it may be not such an issue? When this comes up
again, I'm hoping Pete will be able to better handle it because of
what happened. We'll talk about it more and I'll investigate but
don't want to seem like I'm asking for special help. (Yet I have
done this in some other situations.) I also don't want to have
people think home/unschoolers are handicapped; we catch enough flack
already...but I guess I shouldn't care as long as I know we're on
the right track. How far did Lars get in his scouting?
problems are either used to not going fast enough and just sitting
there or maybe not caring? I don't mean to sound critical of
schooled kids but I'm thinking this is old hat to them...when they
don't get something it may be not such an issue? When this comes up
again, I'm hoping Pete will be able to better handle it because of
what happened. We'll talk about it more and I'll investigate but
don't want to seem like I'm asking for special help. (Yet I have
done this in some other situations.) I also don't want to have
people think home/unschoolers are handicapped; we catch enough flack
already...but I guess I shouldn't care as long as I know we're on
the right track. How far did Lars get in his scouting?
>thing. We
> When Lars moved from Cubs to Scouts they started the note-taking
> talked with the leader ahead of time about the writing. He toldus that a
> lot of the schooled kids also have problems with it. He did tryto make it
> as easy on Lars as he could, not pressuring to finish, etc.temporary
> Tia
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
> leschke@s...
SARA
"I don't see a problem with finding similar things in a book if he's
asking for help. Maybe, though, after the conference and Pam
Sorooshian's workshops you yourself will have more math ideas
bubbling in your own head and won't feel so much need to give up and
get the book before doing a little brainstorming WITH him!" Sandra
I certainly need this, thanks for suggesting...another
question....are there other unschooling conferences east of the
Mississippi? I'm going to make time to explore what resources I've
discovered here, ie., your website but have had this question since
I discovered the SC conference.
"It wasn't that he couldn't write well enough that was the problem
in that scenario, it was the others silly expectation of what he
should be doing. Maybe you already told him that." Deb L
Yes, we did talk about who had different expectations and that he
was being very hard on himself. A similiar thread here about
perfectionism reminds me how much Pete is also and that adds to the
way the situation panned out too. I feel he is ready to write now,
that he wants to write and was so in hopes the scout thing would be
the take-off. He has bounced back and I still think it will motivate
him. :) This summer he has a class at camp on Environmental Science.
At least it's only an hour long and not at 8am!
"Sara,
Where do you live in NC? I live in Catawba County. I just "met" (
online) another lady from HA-NC that lives a few miles from me. Nice
to see another NC'er here."
Teresa
Teresa, will you be going to the SC conference? It seems we are
rising up!
asking for help. Maybe, though, after the conference and Pam
Sorooshian's workshops you yourself will have more math ideas
bubbling in your own head and won't feel so much need to give up and
get the book before doing a little brainstorming WITH him!" Sandra
I certainly need this, thanks for suggesting...another
question....are there other unschooling conferences east of the
Mississippi? I'm going to make time to explore what resources I've
discovered here, ie., your website but have had this question since
I discovered the SC conference.
"It wasn't that he couldn't write well enough that was the problem
in that scenario, it was the others silly expectation of what he
should be doing. Maybe you already told him that." Deb L
Yes, we did talk about who had different expectations and that he
was being very hard on himself. A similiar thread here about
perfectionism reminds me how much Pete is also and that adds to the
way the situation panned out too. I feel he is ready to write now,
that he wants to write and was so in hopes the scout thing would be
the take-off. He has bounced back and I still think it will motivate
him. :) This summer he has a class at camp on Environmental Science.
At least it's only an hour long and not at 8am!
"Sara,
Where do you live in NC? I live in Catawba County. I just "met" (
online) another lady from HA-NC that lives a few miles from me. Nice
to see another NC'er here."
Teresa
Teresa, will you be going to the SC conference? It seems we are
rising up!
Tia Leschke
How far did Lars get in his scouting?
Here in Canada they move from Cubs to Scouts at the grade 6 level. He did
two years and then quit. Both years had leadership difficulties, and the
boys got bored, fooled around, and got heck for it. They did some fun stuff
but not enough to keep their interest. There were also increasing conflicts
with his sports, which were taking a higher priority in his life.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Here in Canada they move from Cubs to Scouts at the grade 6 level. He did
two years and then quit. Both years had leadership difficulties, and the
boys got bored, fooled around, and got heck for it. They did some fun stuff
but not enough to keep their interest. There were also increasing conflicts
with his sports, which were taking a higher priority in his life.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
**Tia, I'm thinking the schooled kids that have some of the same
problems are either used to not going fast enough and just sitting
there or maybe not caring? I don't mean to sound critical of
schooled kids but I'm thinking this is old hat to them...when they
don't get something it may be not such an issue? When this comes up
again, I'm hoping Pete will be able to better handle it because of
what happened.**
Schooled kids learn to fake it. They learn not to admit when they don't
understand something, to either pretend that they do or to act as if whatever
it is too far beneath them to pay any attention to it. They learn to deflect
scrutiny from themselves. They learn how to scribble good looking nonsense if
they have problems with taking notes. And they learn not to let anyone know
they care. They learn that it isn't safe to show either frustration OR too
much enthusiasm - that either one can backfire.
Deborah in IL
problems are either used to not going fast enough and just sitting
there or maybe not caring? I don't mean to sound critical of
schooled kids but I'm thinking this is old hat to them...when they
don't get something it may be not such an issue? When this comes up
again, I'm hoping Pete will be able to better handle it because of
what happened.**
Schooled kids learn to fake it. They learn not to admit when they don't
understand something, to either pretend that they do or to act as if whatever
it is too far beneath them to pay any attention to it. They learn to deflect
scrutiny from themselves. They learn how to scribble good looking nonsense if
they have problems with taking notes. And they learn not to let anyone know
they care. They learn that it isn't safe to show either frustration OR too
much enthusiasm - that either one can backfire.
Deborah in IL
Bill and Diane
My dh will do things for a mug that he wouldn't be motivated to do for,
say, financial security or $1000. Dunno.
:-) Diane
Betsy wrote:
say, financial security or $1000. Dunno.
:-) Diane
Betsy wrote:
>
>**Very exciting. But I do have to wonder why he was so motivated by a
>popsicle prize?**
>
>Hi, Pam --
>
>::: waving :::
>
>Maybe he was motivated by the challenge and not the popsicle? It was a
>tough stretch for him but he did it! Maybe he enjoyed the satisfaction
>more than the treat?
>
>Betsy
>
Nicholina ODonnell
**Tia, I'm thinking the schooled kids that have some of the same
problems are either used to not going fast enough and just sitting
there or maybe not caring? I don't mean to sound critical of
schooled kids but I'm thinking this is old hat to them...when they
don't get something it may be not such an issue? When this comes up
again, I'm hoping Pete will be able to better handle it because of
what happened.**
Perhaps Pete could just pretend to keep up with the notes, while really just scribbling and paying attention. Unless, of course, they have to be handed in, but they probably don't at Boy Scouts. (Could be wrong).
Nicholina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
problems are either used to not going fast enough and just sitting
there or maybe not caring? I don't mean to sound critical of
schooled kids but I'm thinking this is old hat to them...when they
don't get something it may be not such an issue? When this comes up
again, I'm hoping Pete will be able to better handle it because of
what happened.**
>Schooled kids learn to fake it.I certainly did! I could take notes and figure out what to write down, but I couldn't spell things correctly at all. As late as 5th grade, I remember having spellings so imaginative that no one could decipher it but myself, and sometimes not even myself, if I came back to it later. So, I never shared my notes and always made sure they were well covered so no one could comment on them.
Perhaps Pete could just pretend to keep up with the notes, while really just scribbling and paying attention. Unless, of course, they have to be handed in, but they probably don't at Boy Scouts. (Could be wrong).
Nicholina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]