fear of death

averyschmidt

16 May 2003, at 12:11am

[email protected]

16 May 2003, at 12:43am

In a message dated 5/15/03 10:15:10 PM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:

<< Any

suggestions for books or movies that explore death in a sensitive

and comforting way? >>

Depending on the kid, "Truly, Madly, Deeply" could be good. It's comforting
without being in any particular religious tradition. A woman is grieving her
husband/partner's death, and he returns. I really liked it. It was
original, and touching. Holly was able to watch it, but in parts, not all at
once (because it's a little slow). Maybe it's too much talking for some
people's tastes, and there is some implied sex (I don't remember nudity, but
then I wouldn't). There's also music, and that's great. And there's humor.

"The Cure" is a kid buddy-movie/adventure about a boy with AIDS and his next
door neighbor who comes to like him and decides to "scientifically" find a
cure for AIDS for him. And they go on an adventure to find an AIDS doctor in
New Orleans (by starting in a stream in Minnesota or somewhere far north
where the Mississippi is small, and they have adventures on the way).

I'm not sure that would be comforting. Might NOT be.

Holly couldn't think of anything.

This isn't much help, but might be up the road some.

Sandra

Tammy T.

16 May 2003, at 12:46am

Hi Patti. I would also like help with this one. I remember being exactly
10 and having an uncontrollable fear of death come over me like a tidal wave
I remember thinking that when I got old, I might be all alone, and then
die alone. My mother just told me I was being silly. So, you can pretty
much guess I didn't bring it up again. I don't remember how long it lasted
or how I got through it. My own 10 year old ( to be May 31) has expressed
this same feeling to me a couple of times over the last couple of years. I
don't know what sparks it, she doesn't either. I have no idea what to say
to her, I don't know that there IS anything to say to her. All I've done is
hold her and let her cry, tell her about my same feelings when I was young,
and after a while, she says "Thanks Mom" and seems to be okay. I hope
someone has some wonderful insight on this.

tammy t

-------Original Message-------

From: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, May 15, 2003 23:12:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] fear of death

Do any of you have any insight as far as how to help a child (age
10) who is intensely afraid of dying? There's nothing in his life
right now specifically that has brought this on (nobody sick or
passed away recently). I think it's just something that he's been
pondering lately- probably in part because we saw parts of the movie
My Girl which brought on lots of questions. I remember being the
same age and having the same fears and questions for *my* mother and
only feeling worse the more information (or non-information as
in "nobody knows") that I got.
Is there a perspective on the mystery of death that could possibly
be comforting to a young child who's interested and worried? Any
suggestions for books or movies that explore death in a sensitive
and comforting way?

Thanks,
Patti

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Have A Nice Day!

16 May 2003, at 12:51am

My 7 year old (soon 8) is going through this same thing right now. She is worried about getting old and dying. She is also worried about ME getting old and dying.

I have been listening and reassuring her that I think as we get older, we become less afraid. I believe in heaven, so we talk about that too.

I sympathize (or is it empathize??) because I have ALWAYS had a fear of death (in spite of my beliefs). Its only been recently that I have started to come to terms with the idea of growing old and dying.

Kristen

----- Original Message -----
From: Tammy T.
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 12:46 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: fear of death

Hi Patti. I would also like help with this one. I remember being exactly
10 and having an uncontrollable fear of death come over me like a tidal wave
I remember thinking that when I got old, I might be all alone, and then
die alone. My mother just told me I was being silly. So, you can pretty
much guess I didn't bring it up again. I don't remember how long it lasted
or how I got through it. My own 10 year old ( to be May 31) has expressed
this same feeling to me a couple of times over the last couple of years. I
don't know what sparks it, she doesn't either. I have no idea what to say
to her, I don't know that there IS anything to say to her. All I've done is
hold her and let her cry, tell her about my same feelings when I was young,
and after a while, she says "Thanks Mom" and seems to be okay. I hope
someone has some wonderful insight on this.

tammy t

-------Original Message-------

From: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, May 15, 2003 23:12:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] fear of death

Do any of you have any insight as far as how to help a child (age
10) who is intensely afraid of dying? There's nothing in his life
right now specifically that has brought this on (nobody sick or
passed away recently). I think it's just something that he's been
pondering lately- probably in part because we saw parts of the movie
My Girl which brought on lots of questions. I remember being the
same age and having the same fears and questions for *my* mother and
only feeling worse the more information (or non-information as
in "nobody knows") that I got.
Is there a perspective on the mystery of death that could possibly
be comforting to a young child who's interested and worried? Any
suggestions for books or movies that explore death in a sensitive
and comforting way?

Thanks,
Patti

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Get A Free Psychic Reading!
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---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

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[email protected]

16 May 2003, at 7:50am

In a message dated 5/16/2003 12:14:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:

> Is there a perspective on the mystery of death that could possibly
> be comforting to a young child who's interested and worried? Any
> suggestions for books or movies that explore death in a sensitive
> and comforting way?

averyschmidt

16 May 2003, at 9:16am

> I have been listening and reassuring her that I think as we get

older, we become less afraid. I believe in heaven, so we talk about
that too.

I reminded my son about how many people believe in heaven, and he
responded with "but that's what scares him, he thinks heaven's a
myth. He's afraid that there's nothing but blackness and nothing,
and he doesn't want blackness and nothing.
If my mother could have heard him she'd say it was my fault that
he's terrified for not teaching (brainwashing) him to believe in a
specific faith and instead encouraging open-mindedness and
questioning. I'm uncomfortable about the topic of death too (always
have been. I'm also a hypochondriac). So it doesn't help that this
probably comes through my bumbling attempts at being comforting.
:-/
Patti

Susan Fuerst

16 May 2003, at 10:33am

One book we loved at our house is The Fall of Freddie the Leaf (I think
it's by Leo Buscaglia). My 4 yr old dd also liked Nana Upstairs, Nana
Downstairs by Tomie DePaola.
Susan

-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 7:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] fear of death

In a message dated 5/16/2003 12:14:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:

> Is there a perspective on the mystery of death that could possibly
> be comforting to a young child who's interested and worried? Any
> suggestions for books or movies that explore death in a sensitive
> and comforting way?

Patti,
Our small, local bookstore has quite a big section on death and dying
for
children. I'd thumb through there to see what might appeal to him. I'm
guessing that, if the bookstore has a bunch, so does the library. I
should go
check. Duncan's had that fear on & off recently, but he seems content
with
being held and comforted. He gets antsy at night. But in the daytime, we
can
talkwithout tears.

There's a movie, "Phoenix & Griffin" (Peter Falk & ??? can see her
face,
can't remember her name). Both are dying. Both view it diferently. It's
old.

Good luck.

~Kelly

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Susan Fuerst

16 May 2003, at 10:44am

> I have been listening and reassuring her that I think as we get

older, we become less afraid. I believe in heaven, so we talk about
that too.

Interesting...I don't think that's really true. I know plenty of middle
aged and old people who are terrified. And I 've visited cancer wards
for children and spent time with terminally ill children who have a
*much* less fear than most people.

>>I reminded my son about how many people believe in heaven, and he

responded with "but that's what scares him, he thinks heaven's a
myth. He's afraid that there's nothing but blackness and nothing,
and he doesn't want blackness and nothing.<<

When my children asked questions about death and dying and what's after,
I often found myself saying, "I don't know." From there I asked them
what they thought about it. One dd thought about these things
intensely....still does... and I try to listen to her. Plus, we read
some books like I mentioned in my other post....and more. I tried to
give her a broad perspective on what some other people think and believe
and hope...but mostly I tried to allow her to express herself and her
ideas and thoughts about it. She came up with some beautiful thoughts.
And challenged me to look at what I believe more in depth.

One big difference is that she has never expressed a fear about death
and dying. She, in fact, was excited about it for her Grammy and
Peepaw. (My mom died in Sept last year and my dad died nine days later
in Oct...so death, dying, illness, etc has been a major theme in our
lives for awhile.)

Susan

ladybast

16 May 2003, at 11:05am

Greetings
I would like to try to assist your child in putting him more at ease if at
all possible.
I work for a local mortuary and my job is body recovery. I also help with
the actual services and such.
Please feel free to email me privately if I can help in any way.
Shoshana

----- Original Message -----
From: "averyschmidt" <patti.schmidt2@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] fear of death

> Do any of you have any insight as far as how to help a child (age
> 10) who is intensely afraid of dying? There's nothing in his life
> right now specifically that has brought this on (nobody sick or
> passed away recently). I think it's just something that he's been
> pondering lately- probably in part because we saw parts of the movie
> My Girl which brought on lots of questions. I remember being the
> same age and having the same fears and questions for *my* mother and
> only feeling worse the more information (or non-information as
> in "nobody knows") that I got.
> Is there a perspective on the mystery of death that could possibly
> be comforting to a young child who's interested and worried? Any
> suggestions for books or movies that explore death in a sensitive
> and comforting way?
>
> Thanks,
> Patti
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Deborah Lewis

16 May 2003, at 11:15am

I asked my son.
We took care of my dad while he was dying from cancer. A few months
later we brought my father in law here when his wife couldn't manage him
anymore. He died from Alzheimer's disease two months later.

My son was eight and just turning nine when he lived in the "house of
death" as my brother called it.
I have regretted putting my son through that every day since, but at the
time it seemed the best choice for these men who didn't want to be in a
hospital or nursing home somewhere, and who's wives didn't want them
there either.

Dylan was right here every day for two months during my dad's final
illness. He'd hold his hand and talk to him, read him stories, draw him
pictures.

So I asked Dylan if he knew why a little child might be worried about it
and what a parent could do, but he said he didn't know. He said no one
wants to dye or even think about the possibility but we can't change it.
He said he's not afraid now after seeing his grandfathers die. My
fathers death was by no means peaceful, he was medicated out of his mind
on morphine the last weeks. But however he managed it Dylan has come to
terms with it better than most of us.

Maybe death and dying is just so vague and mysterious to these children,
like monsters or ghosts, there doesn't seem any way to understand it.

I wonder if you could find a friendly nurse from your local nursing home
who might explain how someone who is dying is taken care of? Maybe
that's a terrible idea.

I'll keep thinking. I'm sorry for your little kid.

Deb L

[email protected]

16 May 2003, at 11:42am

In a message dated 5/16/03 8:46:25 AM, fuerst@... writes:

<< I have been listening and reassuring her that I think as we get
older, we become less afraid. >>

When I was little I was afraid of death because... ? I don't know why. It
might hurt or be scary.

Now when I'm afraid of death it's a whole different kind of fear. I'm afraid
if I die the things I've borrowed won't get returned, or that my relatives
will be muttering evil things about me behind my dead back about what a
packrat I was and that if I had just given that stuff away or thrown it away
they wouldn't have to be sorting through it. And I'm afraid my kids would be
really sad and changed in negative ways forever.

I've told my kids that though some people have reasons to REALLY believe
certain things about the afterlife, nobody knows for sure, but that since so
many cultures have beliefs in spirits continuing one way or another, that it
could well be. But whether they go somewhere and stay, or whether they go to
another plane, like another world, or whether the soul is reborn in another
body, I just don't know. Even that vague stuff seems comforting. They
wouldn't be all alone, and they might still have awareness.

Sandra

jmcseals SEALS

16 May 2003, at 11:56am

My children have been going through this as well. Their great great
grandparents have been ill and the discussion of dying has been brought up
on many occasions. For a long time, I found myself saying "I don't know",
to myself and them. Strange as this may sound, The Lion King changed all
that for me.

Remember the line, "He lives in YOU,"? Suddenly, it began to make sense for
me. At this point in my life, I identify as being agnostic. I don't
believe in heaven or hell, but this really spoke to me in a time of deep
soul searching.

I tell my children that Grannygirl and Pops (g-g-grandparents) believe that
when they die, they will go to heaven and that heaven is a happy place where
they won't hurt or be sad anymore. I told them that Mommy and Daddy believe
that when we die, our spirits will live on in the hearts of people who love
us through the stories they tell about us and the things they remember. We
talked about The Lion King and how Simba remembered Mufasa and heard his
voice in his heart. I told them that Simba wasn't really seeing Mufasa in
the clouds, that those were his heart pictures. Then we watched the movie
again which brought up even more discussion. It was a very moving
experience to share with them.

This brought up questions about my brother, Michael. They wanted to know
why we buried Uncle Mike in the ground and what happened to his body. We
talked about flowers and animals dying and how their bodies replenish the
earth and grow new life. This lead us into a discussion about other faiths
and beliefs which the kids found very enlightening and interesting.
Nicholette decided after all this discussion that everyone believes
basically the same thing. That dying is scary to people who are alive
because they don't want to think about missing people they love so much but
after we die there is nothing to be afraid of. My wise child told me that
she wants to make everyday special with Grannygirl and Pops so she will have
stories to tell the babies about them, since they are so young and might not
remember them and so Grannygirl and Pops will live forever. I really liked
that. I'm facing the loss of them as well and it helped me to put the
situation in perspective. I found myself wanting to pull away because the
closer we are to them, the harder their loss will be for us. They live
right next door, so we see them everyday. I realize that the more we are
with them the more heart stories we will have to carry their spirits with
us. I am thankful that my precious daughter made that so clear to me.

I don't know your beliefs, Patti, but perhaps this might be something you
can share with your children. The more the kids and I discuss the topic of
death the more we begin to find ways to focus on making every day count,
which leads us closer to finding peace and further from fear. We spend more
time now discussing ways to live for today and cherish every moment we have
together. I hope this helps in some way. :)

Jennifer

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Robin Clevenger

16 May 2003, at 12:30pm

----- Original Message -----

> From: "averyschmidt" <patti.schmidt2@...>
> > Do any of you have any insight as far as how to help a child (age
> > 10) who is intensely afraid of dying? There's nothing in his life
> > right now specifically that has brought this on (nobody sick or
> > passed away recently). I think it's just something that he's been
> > pondering lately- probably in part because we saw parts of the movie
> > My Girl which brought on lots of questions. I remember being the
> > same age and having the same fears and questions for *my* mother and
> > only feeling worse the more information (or non-information as
> > in "nobody knows") that I got.
> > Is there a perspective on the mystery of death that could possibly
> > be comforting to a young child who's interested and worried? Any
> > suggestions for books or movies that explore death in a sensitive
> > and comforting way?

I second the recommendation for "The Fall of Freddie the Leaf". Both of my
kids have loved that book, and we lost my grandmother this month.

There's a gut feeling I have that says that at early ages, kids know
instinctively, perhaps from memory before being born, that dying is okay. My
daughter came in and announced yesterday "When I get really, really old and
die, I want my body burned up so it can help some trees grow.". There was no
fear in that statement (she's 3). Obviously, we've talked a bit about what
happened to grandma's body (cremation) lately.
I've written before on this list about how both of my kids have told me
(each at the age of two) of their memories of hovering over DH's and my
wedding. I'm fairly sure that there's no way they could've made that up.
Neither of them had even seen a picture of our wedding at the age they told
me these things. I have a feeling that's one reason why they were not afraid
of death at those ages.
By the age of 10, however, kids are pretty fully incarnated in this world,
and the tenuous connections that they might've had with whatever other realm
they came from must be thin or gone by about that age. Then they start to
realize their mortality, and since they don't have the younger child's
innate sense of peace about it, they feel fear. 10 is also the age when most
kids become very, very cognizant of their bodies. I doubt that this is a
coincidence.
If it was my kids, I guess I would re-tell them the stories they told me as
toddlers about having chosen to come down to life on this earth with DH and
I. I would think that it would give them some comfort to know that they came
from someplace else that they were not scared of at the time. With older
kids, I might even read some life-after-death books such as "Embraced by the
Light". I know some people believe that those accounts are hokey, and I
can't say that I agree with every interpretation that's been put on the
afterlife, but there certainly is something compelling in knowing that
people who have died for brief periods of time almost universally come back
with no fear of death and with only joyous stories of what lies beyond.

Blue Skies!
-Robin-

[email protected]

16 May 2003, at 1:03pm

In a message dated 5/16/2003 11:59:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jmcseals@... writes:

> My wise child told me that
> she wants to make everyday special with Grannygirl and Pops so she will
> have
> stories to tell the babies about them, since they are so young and might
> not
> remember them and so Grannygirl and Pops will live forever. I really liked
>
> that. I'm facing the loss of them as well and it helped me to put the
> situation in perspective. I found myself wanting to pull away because the
> closer we are to them, the harder their loss will be for us. They live
> right next door, so we see them everyday. I realize that the more we are
> with them the more heart stories we will have to carry their spirits with
> us. I am thankful that my precious daughter made that so clear to me.
>
>

Jennifer,

That was a very moving post, very beautifully worded, thanks for sharing it
today.

glena

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

16 May 2003, at 1:05pm

My dh got his first taste of this through Harry Potter. It really
bothered him that Harry's parents died and he went to live with
his "mean" Aunt & Uncle. Actually, I never really liked that part of
the book. My son always asks "why he has to live with them?". I
really do not know a good answer. In reality, HRS is not doing there
job? LOL. Has anyone else experienced this while reading the book?
Any good answers?

Olga :)

--- In [email protected], "jmcseals SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:

> My children have been going through this as well. Their great

great

> grandparents have been ill and the discussion of dying has been

brought up

> on many occasions. For a long time, I found myself saying "I don't

know",

> to myself and them. Strange as this may sound, The Lion King

changed all

> that for me.
>
> Remember the line, "He lives in YOU,"? Suddenly, it began to make

sense for

> me. At this point in my life, I identify as being agnostic. I

don't

> believe in heaven or hell, but this really spoke to me in a time of

deep

> soul searching.
>
> I tell my children that Grannygirl and Pops (g-g-grandparents)

believe that

> when they die, they will go to heaven and that heaven is a happy

place where

> they won't hurt or be sad anymore. I told them that Mommy and

Daddy believe

> that when we die, our spirits will live on in the hearts of people

who love

> us through the stories they tell about us and the things they

remember. We

> talked about The Lion King and how Simba remembered Mufasa and

heard his

> voice in his heart. I told them that Simba wasn't really seeing

Mufasa in

> the clouds, that those were his heart pictures. Then we watched

the movie

> again which brought up even more discussion. It was a very moving
> experience to share with them.
>
> This brought up questions about my brother, Michael. They wanted

to know

> why we buried Uncle Mike in the ground and what happened to his

body. We

> talked about flowers and animals dying and how their bodies

replenish the

> earth and grow new life. This lead us into a discussion about

other faiths

> and beliefs which the kids found very enlightening and

interesting.

> Nicholette decided after all this discussion that everyone believes
> basically the same thing. That dying is scary to people who are

alive

> because they don't want to think about missing people they love so

much but

> after we die there is nothing to be afraid of. My wise child told

me that

> she wants to make everyday special with Grannygirl and Pops so she

will have

> stories to tell the babies about them, since they are so young and

might not

> remember them and so Grannygirl and Pops will live forever. I

really liked

> that. I'm facing the loss of them as well and it helped me to put

the

> situation in perspective. I found myself wanting to pull away

because the

> closer we are to them, the harder their loss will be for us. They

live

> right next door, so we see them everyday. I realize that the more

we are

> with them the more heart stories we will have to carry their

spirits with

> us. I am thankful that my precious daughter made that so clear to

me.

>
> I don't know your beliefs, Patti, but perhaps this might be

something you

> can share with your children. The more the kids and I discuss the

topic of

> death the more we begin to find ways to focus on making every day

count,

> which leads us closer to finding peace and further from fear. We

spend more

> time now discussing ways to live for today and cherish every moment

we have

> together. I hope this helps in some way. :)
>
> Jennifer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

16 May 2003, at 2:33pm

In response to Glena and others:

Glena,
Thanks you for your kind words. I think I may have said this before (not
sure <g>) but I truly respect the fact that you are able to look past our
differences and be able to respond to me in this way. I hope you understand
that while I may disagree with with you on some things, I find your ability
to look past those differences admirable. I may come across as rude and
assuming at times, but I am attacking and debating the principles, not the
person. I hope you understand that now or in any future "bickering" that
may occur that may occur between us....or anyone on this list for that
matter!

Unschoolers,
(This is not directed at anyone in particular...) I don't know a person yet
that hasn't made bad parenting choices at some point during their lives. I
certainly have! There will always be people we don't like and people we
do. People we agree and disagree with. What I find so wonderful about
this group is that even those that I may not choose to be "friends" with IRL
have wisdom and meaningful experiences to share. I cannot think of a single
person in my life (friends and loved ones) that I haven't had disagreements
with, sometimes heated and downright rude. Likewise, I haven't met an
"enemy" yet that didn't have something wise and meaningful to offer.

If we can confront our inner demons, those things that cause us to feel
defensive, and look past the skin of a seemingly attacking or rude post, we
may find a bit of wisdom to ponder and guide us on to better parenting
paths. It isn't important that we acknowledge our parenting mistakes to
others here, unless, of course, we choose to do so. What IS so vitally
important is that we admit our mistakes to ourselves and our children and
make every effort to learn and recover from those mistakes. If the end-all
is battling who said what, then what have we learned? If the battle is
openeing eyes to the mistakes in who said what, then we can come away with
wisdom and strength to be better parents. Better communicators. Better
human beings.

Peace and Joy!
Jennifer

***Jennifer,

That was a very moving post, very beautifully worded, thanks for sharing it
today.

glena***

_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan Fuerst

16 May 2003, at 2:53pm

Patti,

First, I apologize for reading this thread somewhat 'backwards'. I
sent a few replies before reading your original post!

AS we faced the illnesses and death of each of my parents, each of my
dc had their own experiences. My then 4yo dd was the most verbal and
the most. It was easier in some ways because she always speaks her mind
and ideas.

The Freddie the Leaf Book was really cool for the eight and 10 yo. I
have noticed my 8 yo dd has wrangled much more with some fears about
death as we have been on this journey. She is the one who quietly wept
in her bed at night. She is the one who, recently, became terrified of
her younger siblings bathing because it made her think of Andrea Yates
and children being drowned. (She heard about Andrea Yates at a friend's
house....that was definitely one news story Abby wouldn't handle
peacefully!) And Abby is the one who recently became upset and cried
because seeing her younger brother reminded her of what she was like
when she was little (he's 2), and she "missed being little". I have
hypothesized that she misses the relative safety she had...that maybe
being older and more aware of the power and mystery of death is scarier.
Or maybe that getting older means being closer to death.

We are still working through much of this. Death IS powerful...And
mysterious. And in addition to their own experiences, they have
watched me cope with the power and mystery of complicated grief.

It sure has given me occasion to look at what I believe about death,
life, eternity. And it's certainly a growing process....at this point I
couldn't say where it will lead me and the little ones here.

I wish you well in looking at this with your child,
Susan

>>>>>>>

Do any of you have any insight as far as how to help a child (age
10) who is intensely afraid of dying? There's nothing in his life
right now specifically that has brought this on (nobody sick or
passed away recently). I think it's just something that he's been
pondering lately- probably in part because we saw parts of the movie
My Girl which brought on lots of questions. I remember being the
same age and having the same fears and questions for *my* mother and
only feeling worse the more information (or non-information as
in "nobody knows") that I got.
Is there a perspective on the mystery of death that could possibly
be comforting to a young child who's interested and worried? Any
suggestions for books or movies that explore death in a sensitive
and comforting way?

Thanks,
Patti

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Olga

16 May 2003, at 3:14pm

How embarrassing..LOL!! Son, SON, not husband..LOL! Yep..dh is
really struggling with this part in the book!! oopppsss. Wish I had
caught that a bit earlier!

Olga :)

--- In [email protected], "Olga" <britcontoo@a...>
wrote:

> My dh got his first taste of this through Harry Potter. It really
> bothered him that Harry's parents died and he went to live with
> his "mean" Aunt & Uncle. Actually, I never really liked that part

> the book. My son always asks "why he has to live with them?". I
> really do not know a good answer. In reality, HRS is not doing

there

> job? LOL. Has anyone else experienced this while reading the

book?

> Any good answers?
>
> Olga :)
>

[email protected]

16 May 2003, at 4:18pm

<< I hope
someone has some wonderful insight on this.>>

I simply explained to my child what I believed. I talked to him about the
changing seasons, how the leaves and flowers die and then when the season is
right, they come back. I told him I believed that there was part of each
human being, not the boy named Alex, but part of him, that never dies, that
comes back like the leaves on the trees. I asked him if the tree looks dead
in the winter, and he said yes, and I asked him if it then comes back alive
in the spring? He said, "Oh, it doesn't die, it just seems like it until
spring!" I told him that I believed humans were the same, that we seem
dead, but really, part of us lives on until the right time, or season.

This is my personal spiritiual belief, and I don't know if it helps at all
with your child, but the familiarization of the concept of change can help
with death issues, I think.

~Aimee

marji

16 May 2003, at 5:21pm

At 13:33 5/16/03 -0500, Jennifer wrote:

>I cannot think of a single person in my life (friends and loved ones) that
>I haven't had disagreements with, sometimes heated and downright
>rude. Likewise, I haven't met an "enemy" yet that didn't have something
>wise and meaningful to offer.

Which reminds me of one of the many very cool things my main man, Dr.
Martin Luther King, Jr., said in 1967:

"...it helps us to see the enemy's point of view, to hear his questions, to
know his assessment of ourselves. For from his view we may indeed see the
basic weaknesses of our own condition, and if we are mature, we may learn
and grow and profit from the wisdom of the brothers who are called the
opposition."

At the risk of being completely goofy, I think that may be one of the
reasons there are so many different types of people and so many different
perspectives. Who'd have looked upon disagreements and discord as
insightful gifts?

Well, frankly, this is a hard one for me to remember, because my first
reaction is often defensiveness. But, if for no other reason then for
Liam's sake (but definitely for my own growth, too), it would be helpful
for me to pin this little gem up on the wall and try to keep it in the
front of my mind so that I can live it and, as I had once heard, be what I
hope to see my son to become.

With love,

Marji

P.S. That was a good post, Jennifer.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

16 May 2003, at 6:13pm

Wow, that's kind of spooky. Well, not spooky, but ironic? Although, I must
say, his words are much more eloquent than my own. <g> That was exactly
what I was trying to say!

Jennifer

>I cannot think of a single person in my life (friends and loved ones) that
>I haven't had disagreements with, sometimes heated and downright rude.
>Likewise, I haven't met an "enemy" yet that didn't have something wise and
>meaningful to offer.

joanna514

16 May 2003, at 11:29pm

--- In [email protected], "averyschmidt"
<patti.schmidt2@v...> wrote:

> Do any of you have any insight as far as how to help a child (age
> 10) who is intensely afraid of dying? >>

I remember talking to my mom about not wanting to grow up, and being
afraid of dying... and crying about it (I was probably 8). Her
response stuck with me for the rest of my life and covered many
areas.
She said, there is no point in worrying about things we can't control.
Worrying about things that we have absolutely no control over is a
waste of our time and energy. Wouldn't it be better to have fun and
be happy with the time we do have.
If we can control it, by all means, put effort into making it
positive. If not...don't worry, be happy.
I hate feeling out of control. As soon as i realize there is nothing
I can do to help the situation, I am instantly calmed because of my
mothers words. It has helped me many times and is helping me cope
with a lot right now.
I told my dd a story to relate this wisdom when she was worried about
these things. It was about a flower who spent the summer worrying
about the sun shine then worrying about the rain, then worrying about
the end of summer when she knew they would all die. The other flower
next to her was joyful and full of awe in everything that life had to
offer, but the other flower kept on worrying about what was to come.
In the end, all the flowers die. The ones who appreciated
everything, accepted their death. The one that worried, regretted
her life and the wasted time she had spent.
I asked my dd which flower seemed smarter. Which would she want to
be?
A couple of years later she reminded me of this story I had told
her. She told me it helped her a lot in dealing with things. I was
glad.
Joanna

Have A Nice Day!

16 May 2003, at 11:30pm

Very nice story. I might try that.

Kristen

----- Original Message -----
From: joanna514
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 11:29 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: fear of death

--- In [email protected], "averyschmidt"
<patti.schmidt2@v...> wrote:
> Do any of you have any insight as far as how to help a child (age
> 10) who is intensely afraid of dying? >>

I remember talking to my mom about not wanting to grow up, and being
afraid of dying... and crying about it (I was probably 8). Her
response stuck with me for the rest of my life and covered many
areas.
She said, there is no point in worrying about things we can't control.
Worrying about things that we have absolutely no control over is a
waste of our time and energy. Wouldn't it be better to have fun and
be happy with the time we do have.
If we can control it, by all means, put effort into making it
positive. If not...don't worry, be happy.
I hate feeling out of control. As soon as i realize there is nothing
I can do to help the situation, I am instantly calmed because of my
mothers words. It has helped me many times and is helping me cope
with a lot right now.
I told my dd a story to relate this wisdom when she was worried about
these things. It was about a flower who spent the summer worrying
about the sun shine then worrying about the rain, then worrying about
the end of summer when she knew they would all die. The other flower
next to her was joyful and full of awe in everything that life had to
offer, but the other flower kept on worrying about what was to come.
In the end, all the flowers die. The ones who appreciated
everything, accepted their death. The one that worried, regretted
her life and the wasted time she had spent.
I asked my dd which flower seemed smarter. Which would she want to
be?
A couple of years later she reminded me of this story I had told
her. She told me it helped her a lot in dealing with things. I was
glad.
Joanna

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

17 May 2003, at 8:13am

on 5/16/03 1:05 PM, Olga at britcontoo@... wrote:

> It really
> bothered him that Harry's parents died and he went to live with
> his "mean" Aunt & Uncle.

Dumbledore mentioned in the first book that Harry would be better off
growing up away from being known by everyone as the one who defeated
Voldemort so that's why he was raised by Muggles, rather than his father's
side of the family. (If there were any at the time. There don't seem to be
any now since no one has come forward. Though maybe there's a reason there
are none or they haven't come forward.) Though it doesn't explain why the
Dursleys in particular.

At some later point Dumbledore remarks that Harry would be safe (from
Voldemort) with the Dursleys because they're blood relatives. So I think
something else will be revealed later about why Harry is safe (relatively
speaking) there and also perhaps why Voldemort perhaps *couldn't* come back
until Harry left the protection of the Dursleys and reentered the world of
witches and wizards.

Joyce

Tia Leschke

17 May 2003, at 12:04pm

> Our small, local bookstore has quite a big section on death and dying for
> children. I'd thumb through there to see what might appeal to him. I'm
> guessing that, if the bookstore has a bunch, so does the library.

Our library has lists made up of books for kids on tons of different
subjects. It wouldn't hurt to ask the librarian if yours does. That said,
here's a list I got from my children's writers list a while back:

" GRANDMA'S GONE TO LIVE IN THE STARS, by Max Haynes.
"
" ABOUT DYING: AN OPEN FAMILY BOOK FOR PARENTS AND CHILDREN TOGETHER, by
Sara
" Bonnett Stein.
"
" I MISS YOU: A FIRST LOOK AT DEATH, by Pat Thomas.
"
" LIFETIMES: A BEAUTIFUL WAY TO EXPLAIN DEATH TO CHILDREN,by Bryan Mellonie
" and Robert Ingpen.
"
" THE DEAD BIRD, by Margaret Wise Brown.
"
" THE BABY PROJECT, by Sarah Ellis.
"
" EVERETT ANDERSON'S GOODBYE, by Lucille Clifton.
"
" WHEN DINOSAURS DIE, by Marc Brown.
"
" THE TENTH GOOD THING ABOUT BARNEY, by Judith Viorst.
"
" I'LL MISS YOU, MR. HOOPER, by Norman Stiles.
"
" THE NEXT PLACE, by Warren Hanson.
"
" STACIE HAD A LITTLE SISTER, by Wendie Old.
"
" DANCING ON THE MOON, by Janice Roper.
"
" ALL SHINING IN THE SPRING: THE STORY OF A BABY WHO DIED, by Siobhan
" Parkinson.
"
" MORGAN'S BABY SISTER: A READ-ALOUD BOOK FOR FAMILIES WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED
" THE DEATH OF A NEWBORN, by Patricia Polin Johnson.
"
" AM I STILL A BIG SISTER? by Audrey Bernheimer Weir.
"
" WHERE'S JESS? by Ray and Judy Goldstein.
"
" LAST WEEK MY BROTHER ANTHONY DIED, by Martha Whitmore Hickman.
"
" MY ALWAYS SISTER. 16 p. coloring book available from
" www.aplacetoremember.com

And here's another one that was posted to the Canadian homeschooling list a
while back:

Buscaglia, Leo. "The Fall of Freddy the Leaf"
Burningham, John. "Grandpa".
someone said it is wordless, extremely eloquent.
DePaola. "Nana Upstairs, Nana Downstairs"
Marisabine, Russo. "Grandpa Abe"
someone found this good for a five year old, not scary, very loving
Miles, Miska. "Annie & The Old One"
Schneider, Antonie. "Good-Bye, Vivi!"
supposed a good book for death of grand parent and methods of
dealing with it. for ages 4-8
Turner, Barbara. "A Little Bit of Rob"
someone said it is a picture book that deals with sibling death
and is comforting
Varley. "Badger's Parting Gift"
(Ruthann talking here....We rather like this one.)
Viorst. "10th Good Thing About Barney"
Wilhelm. "I'll Always Love You"
Yolen, Jane. "Grandpa Bill's Song"
One family found a great comfort in the coloring book
"When Someone Special Dies."
Two children's books you might find helpful in dealing with the possible
loss of your beloved pet are:
"Cat Heaven" by Cynthia Rylant
"For Every Cat an Angel" by Christine Davis
or alternately, by same authors:
"Dog Heaven"
"For Every Dog an Angel"
Nadia the Willful. by Sue Alexander (it's an old book, found it in the
library)
This story tells about different reactions to grief told through the eyes of
a Nadia, whose family has lost her beloved oldest brother, and teaches us
that the ones we love live on in our hearts.
A favorite of one person, one that she always used to suggest when she
ran a bookstore- "Everett Anderson's Goodbye", by Lucille Clifton. It's in
picture-book form, but is really an illustrated poem about the seven stages
of grief, and is appropriate for almost ANY age, including adults.
"The Magic Moth" by Virginia Lee(?). Told from the point of view of a five
or
six year old.

Hope these help somebody. I can remember that fear at about the same age.
It's really powerful and scary.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Tammy T.

17 May 2003, at 1:53pm

Thank you for this, Tia .
tammy t

-------Original Message-------

From: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, May 17, 2003 12:02:08
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] fear of death

> Our small, local bookstore has quite a big section on death and dying for
> children. I'd thumb through there to see what might appeal to him. I'm
> guessing that, if the bookstore has a bunch, so does the library.

[email protected]

17 May 2003, at 2:22pm

In a message dated 5-15-2003 10:14:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:

> Any suggestions for books or movies that explore death in a sensitive
> and comforting way?

My kids really like *Simon Birch* because he knew he had a purpose in life
and was not afraid to die.

I have the opposite problem with DS. We've made daddy out as having such a
good time *on the other side,* that Hayden is absolutely NOT afraid to die.
He had a breathing issue going thru the mountains in Colorado on our vacation
and I was reminding him to breathe deep. "So I won't die?" "yeah, so you
won't die" "Oh, it's okay if I die mommy, I'll go live with daddy" I think I
flew down the ding dang mountain to get that boy oxygen ~ I felt/feel very
conflicted about it, we worked really hard for them to accept the reality of
death and we came up with some incredible wisdom about what happens after
your body dies, but I didn't expect them to *embrace* death ...

Honestly, I've not found many good books for children regarding death ...
maybe you'll get some enlightening responses and we'll have to collectively
write that book!!

diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
“I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly
losing it's understanding of being human" John Trudell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

17 May 2003, at 2:37pm

In a message dated 5-16-2003 7:20:03 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:

> I reminded my son about how many people believe in heaven, and he
> responded with "but that's what scares him, he thinks heaven's a
> myth. He's afraid that there's nothing but blackness and nothing,
> and he doesn't want blackness and nothing.
>

I want to share that I lay all of my known options out there for the kids.
We talk of Heaven, filled with all the things and people that Mitch loved
[they serve beer at the taco bell in heaven<bg>]. The Grandfathers, the
spirits of all the fathers and mothers who are available to us with wisdom
and protection, on *the other side.* We also talk of the *nirvana* aspect,
becoming one with the cosmic force. Then there's reincarnation, that we will
meet Daddy's spirit again, though there is no longer a *Mitch* he will be a
different person this time. We discuss at great lengths the purpose of our
individual life, why we are human instead of animals, etc, etc, etc... I
tell them I don't have all the answers, just enough to make me continue
questioning :)
diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
“I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly
losing it's understanding of being human" John Trudell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nellebelle

17 May 2003, at 4:14pm

Mr. Fred Rogers made a video for children about death.

Mary Ellen

nellebelle

17 May 2003, at 4:18pm

Simon Birch is loosely based on "A Prayer for Owen Meany". So loosely, that
the author of the book insisted they change the title of the movie.

Mary Ellen

----- Original Message ----- My kids really like *Simon Birch* because he
knew he had a purpose in life
and was not afraid to die.