Gary & Lisa Williams

Hi all~ I would like to know how much you do share with your children?! As
Joanne mentioned, she did not really "announce" to her kids that she was
moving more into unschooling and that her kids were upset by this. However
after she explained some to them they were happier.

Also, I would like to know how you impress upon your children that they are
"normal" even if they don't do society's "normal" things. I have never
cared what society thought of me but I have an 11 year old daughter who
wants to always "fit in". I am worried about how much trouble this will
cause her as she gets older. I want her to be confident in herself the way
she is--I think she is just great! Part of her lack of self-esteem comes
from her 4 years in the school system (pre-school through 2nd grade). She
had a strict 2nd grade teacher that was red pen happy! Everything that child
ever wrote or did had some red mark on it--no matter how small the error.
Thanks for your comments~
Lisa



> --- In [email protected], <patti.schmidt2@v...>
> wrote:
> > Last night, after a long tiring day trip and a few tense family
> > moments, I was laying in bed with my 8 and 10 yo sons. At the
> > moment when my oldest was about to fall asleep he had an
> interesting
> > thing to say out of the blue. Something like "sometimes I wish you
> > just put me in school when I was 5 like everyone else, and we never
> > even knew about homeschooling, and then I'd be normal."
> >>
> From: "joannec28804" <joannec28804@...>

> My kids have some of this--not so much about school but about other,
> school-at-home homeschoolers. Most of their friends "do school" and
> my kids sometimes feel impressed by the official look of
> their "school-rooms", schedules, time-lines etc. Through reading
> this list, I just gradually stopped doing any structured schoolwork
> with them, and while they are happy to be spending their days free of
> that, they sometimes feel they're not measuring up. They don't have
> the external rewards that school-kids, or school at home kids might
> get--grades, gold stars, completed workbooks etc.
>
> It just occurred to me recently, that while I understood what we're
> doing, they really didn't...they thought we were just slacking off,
> drifting about...and we were always VERY relaxed homeschoolers to
> begin with. At any rate, I've started sharing with them more about
> WHY we've changed, what I don't like about the way schools work etc,
> and it seems to give them a sense of understanding...
> "Ahhh...there's a plan!"
>
> My older dtr said the other day about a rather controlling fellow HS
> mom--"She treats her dtr like she's a rat in a cage, giving her
> rewards for good behavior."
>
> Just talking this out helps them see that we have CHOSEN this
> lifestyle. It helps them when they start comparing themselves to
> their peers. I'm hoping that unschooling will help my kids not care
> so much about "being normal"--what freedom THAT would be!
> Jo

averyschmidt

> Also, I would like to know how you impress upon your children that
they are
> "normal" even if they don't do society's "normal" things.

My children are actually quite confident to be different in most
areas. For example, my middle son likes to wear his hair much
longer than most boys his age and doesn't give a rat's ass who likes
it and who doesn't.
With school, though, it's a much bigger thing- it's what our entire
community does. When they're with friends they feel out of the
loop. Not because the friends are "cliquey" or mean about it...
they're not. It's more because there's this whole culture, complete
with language, customs, good parts, bad parts, and references that
they are not privy to. Latley I've noticed that they've been asking
their friends *lots* of questions about school. Sometimes I think
it would be easier if they had experienced a little bit of it and
then unschooled later, as then it wouldn't be this big mysterious
thing in their minds. My oldest is also really curious about
whether he could do the school work that his same age "peers" do in
school.

Patti

averyschmidt

> >Sometimes I think it would be easier if they had experienced a
little bit of it and then unschooled later, as then it wouldn't be
this big mysterious thing in their minds.
> >
>
> "Easier" for whom?

For my children. As it is, the mystery of school seems to be
hanging over their heads in a big way.

Patti

Robin Clevenger

From: "averyschmidt" <patti.schmidt2@...>
> Latley I've noticed that they've been asking
>their friends *lots* of questions about school. Sometimes I think
>it would be easier if they had experienced a little bit of it and
>then unschooled later, as then it wouldn't be this big mysterious
>thing in their minds.

We did a camping trip over the last two days and my son and one of his
friends were reading through several Sailor Moon comic books. They had tons
of questions for me about the stuff in there, which is very schoolish: "Why
is one person considered a "brain"? Did you get A's when you were in school?
Why do they have to take those tests? Why can't they leave the school area?
etc. The other kid's mom and I were talking about what, specifically, draws
these two boys to pour over Sailor Moon, and one of the big reasons is that
I think it is answering some need to see what goes on with schooled kids.

But, I *don't* think it would ever be easier if my kids had experienced
school. I think it would've broken some parts of them, even in small ways,
that would be very difficult to fix. I'll take the curiousity about school
any day.

And someone else asks:
> Also, I would like to know how you impress upon your children that
they are
> "normal" even if they don't do society's "normal" things.


I used to have a button when I was in high school that said "Why be normal?"
and I guess that's more or less my attitude. I talk to my kids a lot about
why we're unschooling. They know that when we're at the beach with our
friends on the only beautiful 70 degree day in weeks (yesterday) that other
kids are buckling down to a spelling test and looking out the window. The
kids know that I don't personally value the things that school
teaches--conformity, capitulation, subjugation of individuality.

I also think having a strong group of homeschooling friends helps immensely.
The kids in our group all follow their own drummers, and there doesn't seem
to be any need to conform to a "norm".

Blue Skies!
-Robin-

unolist

--- In [email protected], "averyschmidt"
<patti.schmidt2@v...> wrote:
> > >Sometimes I think it would be easier if they had experienced a
> little bit of it and then unschooled later, as then it wouldn't be
> this big mysterious thing in their minds.
> > >
> >
> > "Easier" for whom?
>
> For my children. As it is, the mystery of school seems to be
> hanging over their heads in a big way.
>
> Patti

From someone who had her first child in preschool through 4th: I wish
she never had been exposed to school. The exposure is worse than the
mystery that I expect from my 4yo that I hope never wants to go to
school. So much damage to undo. So much guilt for not knowing any
better that to do what I was supposed to do. I *wish* my oldest
daughter never went to school and only wondered what it is all about.

Ang

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/15/03 6:54:05 AM, glmnw@... writes:

<< Also, I would like to know how you impress upon your children that they are
"normal" even if they don't do society's "normal" things. I have never
cared what society thought of me but I have an 11 year old daughter who
wants to always "fit in". I am worried about how much trouble this will
cause her as she gets older. >>

It seems it would cause her more trouble in school than out, because others
would tell her exactly what she needed to do to fit in.

With Holly, I see her being more and more discriminating about whose opinion
she cares about as she gets older. Friends she thought were pretty cool when
they were younger aren't growing as smoothly as she expected in some ways.
Either school caused them to just become more mainstream and so now they
question Holly's fashion or hobby or entertainment choices as being not the
current fashion (which doesn't impress her) or they seemed on a trajectory to
be doing really cool things now with collections or knowledge or hobbies and
they just dropped those things (for not being cool). Holly sees those
changes and asks "Why don't you do art anymore?" or "Why did you quit
braiding your hair?" (or whatever) and finds the answers rarely thoughtful.

Maybe she's starting to see "normal" as being a sham, a way to try to keep
people from really thinking or sparkling. She's glad to be on the free side
of that line where she really can do things because she, her individual self,
wants to, not because her classmates tell her she can or can't.

Some kids who go to school still maintain their sense of self, and they
sparkle.
Some kids who are homeschooled aren't as sparkly as others.

But the chances of ten other girls coming to her daily and asking her to
explain WHY she cut her hair the way she did, and WHY she's wearing what
she's wearing and WHY she's reading what she's reading are just zero with
homeschooling, and would be guaranteed if she were in school.

-=-Also, I would like to know how you impress upon your children that they are
"normal" even if they don't do society's "normal" things. -=-

Mathematically speaking, I wouldn't use "normal" to mean special or different
or unique or privileged. She IS all those things, and probably is NOT
"normal." Maybe tell her that if the kids at school had a choice they would
rather be home, but poor things don't have a choice and that is normal.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/15/03 8:41:14 AM, diamondair@... writes:

<< But, I *don't* think it would ever be easier if my kids had experienced

school. I think it would've broken some parts of them, even in small ways,

that would be very difficult to fix. I'll take the curiousity about school

any day. >>

I agree. Holly has visited schools, here and in England, with her friend
Jasmine. Maybe you can get an all-day visitation? Some schools will allow
it. Some won't. Maybe if you tell them your child's thinking of attending
they'll see dollar signs and say "Come on down!" (Though "just" a visit
would involve less wooing and preening than if the teacher saw the kid as a
potential future number, probably.)

Marty's never been in a school except went to see plays twice. So straight
into the detached theatre building and back out.

Holly's reading a book based on school. I bought Stargirl (after many
recommendations from unschoolers) and am a third of the way through. I
thought Holly might like to read it next, but she's reading "Are you There,
God? It's Me, Margaret" and keeps commenting how school-focussed it is.
Stargirl is too.

Maybe reading books like those would satisfy a little of their urge to know
more about school.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

> Holly's reading a book based on school. I bought Stargirl (after many
> recommendations from unschoolers) and am a third of the way through. I
> thought Holly might like to read it next, but she's reading "Are you
There,
> God? It's Me, Margaret" and keeps commenting how school-focussed it is.
> Stargirl is too.
>
> Maybe reading books like those would satisfy a little of their urge to
know
> more about school.
>
And then for balance they could read Skellig and/or Surviving the
Applewhites.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

averyschmidt

> Maybe reading books like those would satisfy a little of their
urge to know
> more about school.

We've lately been reading the Fudge series by Judy Blume which are
heavily school based, and they're driving me *nuts*! There are all
kinds of comments about not wanting to be seen with "kindergarten
babies" and such. Blech.

I'm glad someone mentioned Skellig since that's up next for us- I
already have it from the library and it will be immediately
following Double Fudge. Is it an unschooly book?

I like the idea of a school visit, but right now the school pretty
much leaves us alone, and I'm afraid that if he was in a situation
where he was compared directly to his schooled peers someone might
give us a hard time about "grade level" stuff.

Does anyone have any recommendations for movies with a good
perspective on school vs. not? Hmmm. Mabye Ferris Bueller's Day
Off- I haven't seen that in a long time.

Patti

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/15/03 11:04:03 AM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:

<< Does anyone have any recommendations for movies with a good

perspective on school vs. not? Hmmm. Mabye Ferris Bueller's Day

Off- I haven't seen that in a long time. >>

Heidi (learning by being out and about)
Sound of Music (learning musically and for fun)
Mary Poppins (kids have influence, and learning all around them)
Searching for Bobby Fischer (two kinds of chess teachers, relative merits and
motivations)

Christina Morrissey

Hi Lisa,

My daughter will be 11 in July and she too went to school through the
second grade. Most of her friends are still from school. She is a very
social person. That was the main reason why I put her in a preschool at
the age of 3! Other kids to play with! It's been a real struggle. I have
noticed that there are a combination of factors involved with her
unhappiness and wanting to return to school or at least wanting to be more
like her friends. Depending on how isolated she felt (how successful she
was in getting someone to play with her), how active her current interests,
the weather (we live in the Seattle area), future plans for out-of-state
field trips, and her medications (she has a mood disorder), all these would
have an effect on how much she would dwell on wishing she could be like the
"other girls," or conversely that there was no such thing as public school!

We have been deschooling now for almost 3 years, and it is only now that I
feel I can start to see some real positive changes in her. She has begun
to express interest in wanting to learn new things and is taking the
initiative. The more successful she is at this, the less she compares
herself to her friends. She is very aware, however, of my opinion of the
school system and of the things she couldn't do if she were in it. No
field trips, no sleeping in or staying up late, spelling tests, and doing
math, all the things she hates, still! She also hears from her friends the
complaints about the homework, and not being able to play and sees her
brother's friends (age 14) being expelled and failing for really silly
reasons. She is aware on a pretty regular basis of the failings of the
school system. The positives of homeschooling, of unschooling, are also
usually gifted to her on a daily basis in some way. I think this also
helps her confidence and self esteem in realizing that she has the better
if not more "popular" or "normal" choice.

Despite all this, when she gets together with a large group of schooled
friends like at Girl Scouts where she is the only homeschooled girl, she
feels very uncomfortable. She says that she feels like they "know
more." I suspect it is because all the girls, being the same grade, are on
the same page and just can say the same things. She feels left out and
different, which is the kiss of death in a group without any other
support. One other homeschooler would help, I'm sure. It's not done
intentionally, I don't think, for I know the leader well. It's a
self-esteem thing, which she is only now beginning to form after all these
years. She does have a few close friends in the group, but they don't
realize how she feels about this aspect and so don't know how to support
her. They're all only 10 after all! But knowing this helps me understand
why she wants to go independent next year. We'll see what we do. But
we'll talk about it and why she feels uncomfortable.

Being like the rest of her friends is a big deal at this age. Fortunately,
because she is at home, that impulse is considerably diluted and presents
itself in the type of toys that she may be interested in (Brats or
Build-A-Bears), rather than clothes, or language, or boys! So I recognize
the impulse and am grateful for the lack of severity in the reality of it
and go with the flow. The same with the statements of "wishing I could be
like so and so," or any other such thing. I usually take that to mean
something didn't go well today and she is unhappy with something, rather
than a real wish to change, and I go investigate. Re your question about
fitting in...I think that the more confident you are about yourself and
your abilities, the less you will care about "fitting in." Right now
though, it's a big deal. An age phase for many.

I try to talk to my kids about the whole unschooling process. Given the
problems that we had in public school, the process had to become a family
one. It's necessary for us that it be a cooperative effort, especially
with a bipolar teen! So, interesting articles on the public school system
or colleges that I think my 14 yr old should hear are spoken about, and
emails from this list are shared. Maybe I talk too much (who knows how
much they really choose to "hear" anyway!), but I figure they should have
an idea of where I'm going and what I'm trying to do. By now they know
that I'm not perfect (boy do they!), and if they have something to say they
can...all part of the process, I figure. Talk to your daughter, get her
opinions, her complaints, her thoughts on solutions, etc. Make her part of
the process and you will both be happier in the long run. You are not the
"teacher"!! so stop trying to come up with all the answers or the lesson
plan!! That's the SECRET! There 'ain't' one! LOL

Best regards,
Christina in Seattle




At 07:51 AM 5/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi all~ I would like to know how much you do share with your children?! As
>Joanne mentioned, she did not really "announce" to her kids that she was
>moving more into unschooling and that her kids were upset by this. However
>after she explained some to them they were happier.
>
>Also, I would like to know how you impress upon your children that they are
>"normal" even if they don't do society's "normal" things. I have never
>cared what society thought of me but I have an 11 year old daughter who
>wants to always "fit in". I am worried about how much trouble this will
>cause her as she gets older. I want her to be confident in herself the way
>she is--I think she is just great! Part of her lack of self-esteem comes
>from her 4 years in the school system (pre-school through 2nd grade). She
>had a strict 2nd grade teacher that was red pen happy! Everything that child
>ever wrote or did had some red mark on it--no matter how small the error.
>Thanks for your comments~
>Lisa
>
>
>
> > --- In [email protected], <patti.schmidt2@v...>
> > wrote:
> > > Last night, after a long tiring day trip and a few tense family
> > > moments, I was laying in bed with my 8 and 10 yo sons. At the
> > > moment when my oldest was about to fall asleep he had an
> > interesting
> > > thing to say out of the blue. Something like "sometimes I wish you
> > > just put me in school when I was 5 like everyone else, and we never
> > > even knew about homeschooling, and then I'd be normal."
> > >>
> > From: "joannec28804" <joannec28804@...>
>
> > My kids have some of this--not so much about school but about other,
> > school-at-home homeschoolers. Most of their friends "do school" and
> > my kids sometimes feel impressed by the official look of
> > their "school-rooms", schedules, time-lines etc. Through reading
> > this list, I just gradually stopped doing any structured schoolwork
> > with them, and while they are happy to be spending their days free of
> > that, they sometimes feel they're not measuring up. They don't have
> > the external rewards that school-kids, or school at home kids might
> > get--grades, gold stars, completed workbooks etc.
> >
> > It just occurred to me recently, that while I understood what we're
> > doing, they really didn't...they thought we were just slacking off,
> > drifting about...and we were always VERY relaxed homeschoolers to
> > begin with. At any rate, I've started sharing with them more about
> > WHY we've changed, what I don't like about the way schools work etc,
> > and it seems to give them a sense of understanding...
> > "Ahhh...there's a plan!"
> >
> > My older dtr said the other day about a rather controlling fellow HS
> > mom--"She treats her dtr like she's a rat in a cage, giving her
> > rewards for good behavior."
> >
> > Just talking this out helps them see that we have CHOSEN this
> > lifestyle. It helps them when they start comparing themselves to
> > their peers. I'm hoping that unschooling will help my kids not care
> > so much about "being normal"--what freedom THAT would be!
> > Jo
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
> I'm glad someone mentioned Skellig since that's up next for us- I
> already have it from the library and it will be immediately
> following Double Fudge. Is it an unschooly book?
>
The main character goes to school, but his friend is unschooled.

> I like the idea of a school visit, but right now the school pretty
> much leaves us alone, and I'm afraid that if he was in a situation
> where he was compared directly to his schooled peers someone might
> give us a hard time about "grade level" stuff.

When my son did a 3 day trial of school, I told them straight out that he
was behind his peers in some areas and that I didn't want him put on the
spot at all, no singling out in class, no written assignments, etc.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/15/2003 1:03:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:

> I'm glad someone mentioned Skellig since that's up next for us- I
> already have it from the library and it will be immediately
> following Double Fudge. Is it an unschooly book?

I love Mina's mother's take on school: "My mom says school inhibits the
natural curiousity, creativity, and intelligence of children."

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lee Roversi

We laugh that my son, Bay 12, who loves the Disney channel drivel (Lizzie
McGuire, etc) is getting his junior high experience from Disney! . . . way
better than being in junior high public school! He can enjoy the fun banter
and silly scenarios for what they are to him - entertainment. . . without
the pressure or angst of being in them. He did make an interesting comment
the other day about those shows . . . he said that he found it "lame" that
all those shows make it acceptable, normal, or cool for parents and kids to
not like being together, which he found bizarre.
Lucky again!
Lee
North Country Farms
An Eco-Tourism Destination
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, Kauai, HI 96754
808-828-1513 phone and voice mail
www.northcountryfarms.com

[email protected]

Maybe also the first Karate Kid movie - learning traditionally through action/activity, but not a desk.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/15/03 1:56:37 PM, tmthomas@... writes:

<< Maybe also the first Karate Kid movie - learning traditionally through
action/activity, but not a desk. >>

Good point!
Good movie.

Sandra

Tim and Maureen

All I have to do is tell my kids that they would be required to sit at a desk doing what the teacher told them. This is enough for them to shake their heads and reconsider the idea. Although we have a very small homeschooling/unschooling group these guys here are not surrounded by schoolers and maybe that makes it easier,I don't know.

Maureen
----- Original Message -----
From: treegoddess@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re:Unschooling as not "normal"


averyschmidt wrote:

>Sometimes I think it would be easier if they had experienced a little bit of it and then unschooled later, as then it wouldn't be this big mysterious thing in their minds.
>

"Easier" for whom?

TreeGoddess


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gary & Lisa Williams

In response to Ang:
Yes! How I wish the same thing!! :o(
"So much damage to undo...so much guilt..."
Lisa


> --- In [email protected],
> <patti.schmidt2@v...> wrote:
> > > >Sometimes I think it would be easier if they had experienced a
> > little bit of it and then unschooled later, as then it wouldn't be
> > this big mysterious thing in their minds.
> > For my children. As it is, the mystery of school seems to be
> > hanging over their heads in a big way.
> >
> > Patti

> From: "unolist" <unolist@...>
> From someone who had her first child in preschool through 4th: I wish
> she never had been exposed to school. The exposure is worse than the
> mystery that I expect from my 4yo that I hope never wants to go to
> school. So much damage to undo. So much guilt for not knowing any
> better that to do what I was supposed to do. I *wish* my oldest
> daughter never went to school and only wondered what it is all about.
>
> Ang

Betsy

**Does anyone have any recommendations for movies with a good
perspective on school vs. not? Hmmm. Mabye Ferris Bueller's Day
Off- I haven't seen that in a long time.**

The Simpsons parts that are about school don't tend to romanticize it at
all. And watching these helps me with my deschooling process.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/15/2003 3:50:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> << Does anyone have any recommendations for movies with a good
>
> perspective on school vs. not? Hmmm. Mabye Ferris Bueller's Day
>
> Off- I haven't seen that in a long time. >>
>

Love Ferris Bueller's Day Off...
Another, if you can find it (I bought it on Ebay used) is "Into the West"
with Ellen Barkin and Gabriel Byrne...story about 2 gypsy boys and their
father who find a horse but the father gives up the "gypsy life" and they
move to Irish Welfare type housing. Authorities are always coming around
threatening to take the kids away for not going to school...don't want to
give the whole movie away. It's probably more of a "traditional ethnic
lifestyle vs. cog in the machine" movie than a "school vs. no school" movie,
but very cool nonetheless. Sort of the same with "The Secret of Roan Inish."
(can you tell I love Irish movies?)

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/15/2003 4:57:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tmthomas@... writes:


> Although we have a very small homeschooling/unschooling group these guys
> here are not surrounded by schoolers and maybe that makes it easier,I don't
> know.
>

When we lived in Los Angeles County and my kids DID have a lot of "after
school friends" in the neighborhood, homeschooling was easier and they
enjoyed it more. It was after we moved out in the boonies here in WV and our
homeschool group was almost non-existant that they really wanted to go to
school. 4H, Irish Dance/Scottish Dance, things like that have helped some.
But we have no immediate neighbors (a few 1/4 mile up the road) and only one
has a kid in the 3rd grade, too young for my first wave of children.

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barb Eaton

Ang,
We are so alike in this. Letting go of the guilt can be so hard for me
too. I've gotten past a lot of it, I'm sure you will too. :-)


Barb E
"The smartest thing that a person can do is to persistently think
the thoughts that are consistent with the kind of person he or she
would like to be."

- Brian Tracy, Author and Personal Development Expert




on 5/15/03 1:06 PM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:

> Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:29:32 -0000
> From: "unolist" <unolist@...>
> Subject: Re:Unschooling as not "normal"
>
> From someone who had her first child in preschool through 4th: I wish
> she never had been exposed to school. The exposure is worse than the
> mystery that I expect from my 4yo that I hope never wants to go to
> school. So much damage to undo. So much guilt for not knowing any
> better that to do what I was supposed to do. I *wish* my oldest
> daughter never went to school and only wondered what it is all about.
>
> Ang

Betjeman and Barton Tea Merchants

I want a T-shirt with the quote from Mina :

"My mom says school inhibits the
natural curiousity, creativity, and intelligence of children."

- no doubt I'd get some strange looks and a lot of comments but I love the quote

Karen (in CT)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

Ooooh! Me too, me too! I was thinking the exact same thing when I read
that and forgot to save it. What book did this come from again? I can't
find the post.

Jennifer

****I want a T-shirt with the quote from Mina :

"My mom says school inhibits the
natural curiousity, creativity, and intelligence of children."****

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/16/2003 7:49:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jmcseals@... writes:


> Ooooh! Me too, me too! I was thinking the exact same thing when I read
> that and forgot to save it. What book did this come from again? I can't
> find the post.
>
> Jennifer
>
> ****I want a T-shirt with the quote from Mina :
>
> "My mom says school inhibits the
> natural curiousity, creativity, and intelligence of children."****
>

Skellig, David Almond


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

> Ooooh! Me too, me too! I was thinking the exact same thing when I read
> that and forgot to save it. What book did this come from again? I can't
> find the post.

Skellig
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

averyschmidt

An update for anyone who's interested... there have been two
interesting conversations around here the last couple of days.
A 14yo boy from around the corner who comes over to skateboard after
school was sitting at our table chatting. He mentioned how lucky my
kids are that they have so much free time to "do what they want,"
and my oldest asked him if he would homeschool if he was allowed to.
He thought about it and then replied that it was hard to say,
because while he hates a lot of things about school (grades,
homework, boring classes) he'd really miss his friends. He *likes*
going to school to see his friends. I felt uncomfortable because
this is exactly the reason my kids sometimes think they'd like
school, so I piped up "yes, but don't you get in trouble for
socializing in school? Are you even allowed to talk to your
friends?" and he surprised me by saying that yes, they do socialize
plenty throughout the day. I could practically hear my kids making
a mental check in their pros of school column.

Second conversation... my friend has a 12 year old daughter who goes
to school, and this week they went out to dinner together (she and
her daughter). When they walked into the restaurant my friend had
her arm around her daughter. Turns out there were a bunch of girls
from her class eating there (some school club dinner or other) who
witnessed the arms around each other thing, and this girl was so
mortified that she didn't eat her dinner and went home and locked
herself in her bedroom and cried. All because her classmates saw
her and her mother with their arms around each other! That kind of
peer influence and fear of criticism over such silly things just
horrifies me.

Patti