[email protected]

coyote's corner wrote:

>[Living simply is not only attainable - it's healthier for all of us the people living that way & mother Earth.]
>

I've been *really* working on changing our consumption in our household.
Here's a few links to sites that have helped me along regarding Simple
Living:

Center for Unhindered Living http://www.unhinderedliving.com/index.html
The Center for a New American Dream http://www.newdream.org/
Simple Living http://www.committment.com/simple.html
The Simple Living Network http://www.simpleliving.net/
Organized Home http://organizedhome.com/

Happy Simplicity! ;)

TreeGoddess

Heidi

thank you treegoddess! We're making some of the same choices around
here. Taking definite steps away from consumerism, making our own
food, staying away from big mega stores and buying locally when
possible, etc. And trying to get our house off the grid. I'll be
checking these links FOR SURE.

Thanks again!
heidiC


--- In [email protected], "treegoddess@c..."
<treegoddess@c...> wrote:
> coyote's corner wrote:
>
> >[Living simply is not only attainable - it's healthier for all of
us the people living that way & mother Earth.]
> >
>
> I've been *really* working on changing our consumption in our
household.
> Here's a few links to sites that have helped me along regarding
Simple
> Living:
>
> Center for Unhindered Living
http://www.unhinderedliving.com/index.html
> The Center for a New American Dream http://www.newdream.org/
> Simple Living http://www.committment.com/simple.html
> The Simple Living Network http://www.simpleliving.net/
> Organized Home http://organizedhome.com/
>
> Happy Simplicity! ;)
>
> TreeGoddess

[email protected]

Heidi wrote:

>thank you treegoddess!
>
You're most welcome!

>We're making some of the same choices around here. Taking definite steps away from consumerism, making our own food <snip> and buying locally when possible
>
Last year we bought a season's share with a local CSA farming family and
we were rolling in locally grown fresh organic produce. I had lots to
freeze and can, use for that weeks meals, and still had too much of some
things that I ended up trading with a friend for things in her garden I
didn't have. Worked out great!

This past January we started paying $30 a week to this same farm so we
could pay the $500 fee by May and we were able to do that by the end of
March (by sending more each week if we had it). I'm really looking
forward to all the yummy veggies we'll have at the end of June through
late October!

Check to see if there's any in your area at
http://www.csacenter.org/movement.html

>And trying to get our house off the grid.
>
Oooh, this one is a big nagging issue for me. We're not planning to
stay in this house for very long (with any luck), but I'm already
researching and making plans to retrofit our next house or -- in my
dreams! -- build an eco-house right from the get go. Mother Earth News
magazine is a great resource for this info. In fact, I just picked up
their summer issue dedicated solely to energy-efficient / alternative
powered homes. Pick up a copy and drool, dream, and plan! ;)

One more thing that might be cool to some of you that buy organic
foods... check into a local food co-op buying club. A friend of mine
organized one at the beginning of this year. We place our individual
orders with our group's coordinator every 8 weeks and then we receive a
bulk delivery with no shipping fees. Our orders get delivered to my
home -- everyone in the group comes here to unload the big truck then
sort the boxes and cases (which you can arrange to share with other
members) while all the children are playing out of the way and being
supervised by me and one other Mama. We all work together, have fun,
and save lots on our grocery bills. We go through Blooming Prairie --
http://www.blooming-prairie.com (click on the "products" link to see
what they carry)-- but I know there are lots more out there like this.
You may be able to find a group in your area that's already established
that you can join. Ask the distributor if they can refer you to the
contact person in your area. :)

TreeGoddess

[email protected]

treegoddess@... wrote:

>check into a local food co-op buying club. <snip> We go through Blooming Prairie -- http://www.blooming-prairie.com
>

I went to their web site and found that *they're* a distributor of
another bigger natural foods distributor. They have a page with contact
info for different regional areas at http://www.unfi.com/locations.shtml
. Contact one in your area and see if there's an established group that
you can get info from and maybe join. :)

HTH ~ TreeGoddess

Heidi

--- In [email protected], "treegoddess@c..."
<treegoddess@c...> wrote:
> Heidi wrote:
>
> >thank you treegoddess!
> >
> You're most welcome!
>
> >We're making some of the same choices around here. Taking definite
steps away from consumerism, making our own food <snip> and buying
locally when possible
> >
> Last year we bought a season's share with a local CSA farming
family and
> we were rolling in locally grown fresh organic produce. I had lots
to
> freeze and can, use for that weeks meals, and still had too much of
some
> things that I ended up trading with a friend for things in her
garden I
> didn't have. Worked out great!
>
> This past January we started paying $30 a week to this same farm so
we
> could pay the $500 fee by May and we were able to do that by the
end of
> March (by sending more each week if we had it). I'm really looking
> forward to all the yummy veggies we'll have at the end of June
through
> late October!
>
> Check to see if there's any in your area at
> http://www.csacenter.org/movement.html
>
> >And trying to get our house off the grid.
> >
> Oooh, this one is a big nagging issue for me. We're not planning
to
> stay in this house for very long (with any luck), but I'm already
> researching and making plans to retrofit our next house or -- in my
> dreams! -- build an eco-house right from the get go. Mother Earth
News
> magazine is a great resource for this info. In fact, I just picked
up
> their summer issue dedicated solely to energy-efficient /
alternative
> powered homes. Pick up a copy and drool, dream, and plan! ;)
>
> One more thing that might be cool to some of you that buy organic
> foods... check into a local food co-op buying club. A friend of
mine
> organized one at the beginning of this year. We place our
individual
> orders with our group's coordinator every 8 weeks and then we
receive a
> bulk delivery with no shipping fees. Our orders get delivered to
my
> home -- everyone in the group comes here to unload the big truck
then
> sort the boxes and cases (which you can arrange to share with other
> members) while all the children are playing out of the way and
being
> supervised by me and one other Mama. We all work together, have
fun,
> and save lots on our grocery bills. We go through Blooming
Prairie --
> http://www.blooming-prairie.com (click on the "products" link to
see
> what they carry)-- but I know there are lots more out there like
this.
> You may be able to find a group in your area that's already
established
> that you can join. Ask the distributor if they can refer you to
the
> contact person in your area. :)
>
> TreeGoddess


We buy some of our groceries from Azure Standard, based in Dufur, OR.
Our wheat, grass fed beef, sometimes honey when we can't get it from
the local bee guy, milk powder, went through a period where we tried
out lots of their treats and some pre-made organic freezer foods (pot
pies, pizza pockets) but that stuff is expensive. A lot of our
medicinals we get from Azure.

I'd like to be buying more, but it can be expensive. When I spend
$100 for a 50# bag of wheat, a small box of miscellany, two roasts
and a dozen pounds of ground beef...I think "I could get a whole
cartful for this money, at the local cheap grocery store" or even at
the local less-cheap store! If I spent our whole grocery budget with
Azure, I'd just get groceries once a month, but if I got enough to
get us THROUGH the month...ack...the delivery fee would be more
reasonable, if I were buying more. It's $11.00, whether I get $40
worth or $300 worth...

*sigh*

HeidiC

becqui

Hello,

I am new to the group. I unschool my 4 kids ages 14g, 13b, 8b and 6g. We
have been homeschooling for about 5 yrs with this being the first year
really unschooling. We live in Ann Arbor, Michigan and belong to a great
unschooling group here that does weekly activities...only disadvantage is
the average age of the group is about 7 yrs old.

I am finding with my high schoolers that they would prefer to play on the
computer and their ps2 all day then do anything else. When we have
activities with the younger kids in our unschooling group I usually do make
them go along just so they get out of the house. Any suggestions on how to
get their heads away from the screens? I have suggested many things to my
13 yr old...his answer always is..."I don't know" or "that doesn't interest
me". If they do not start to show some interest in something else their dad
"will" make them start using school books so that he can see they are doing
something besides vegetating in from of their computers and video games.

Also with us having 6 in our home, my kids are required to do chores...the
house will not maintain itself with just me doing it since I also do work
sometimes. The kids however do not have an allowance at this time, so I
find it hard to make consequences for things that do not get done...such as
last night they are to make sure their chore in the kitchen is done and the
last one to bed is to be sure lights and TV are off. I woke up this am to
lights and TV on and chores in the kitchen not done. If I take away time on
the comp and ps2 they will sit around and do nothing...so does not seem like
it does much good. any suggestions?

I have really enjoyed reading your list....have learned a lot
already...thanks!

Becqui

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/13/03 9:36:24 AM, becqui@... writes:

<< I am finding with my high schoolers that they would prefer to play on the

computer and their ps2 all day then do anything else. When we have

activities with the younger kids in our unschooling group I usually do make

them go along just so they get out of the house. Any suggestions on how to

get their heads away from the screens? >>

I would let them do what they want to do.

Making them go along just so they get out of the house serves no educational
purpose, no social advantage, and seems to me to be punitive.

<< If they do not start to show some interest in something else their dad

"will" make them start using school books so that he can see they are doing

something besides vegetating in from of their computers and video games.>>

Then find something they're interested in. Going to the park with seven year
olds is not going to be the thing.

<Also with us having 6 in our home, my kids are required to do chores...the

house will not maintain itself with just me doing it since I also do work

sometimes. The kids however do not have an allowance at this time, so I

find it hard to make consequences for things that do not get done...such as

last night they are to make sure their chore in the kitchen is done and the

last one to bed is to be sure lights and TV are off. I woke up this am to

lights and TV on and chores in the kitchen not done. If I take away time on

the comp and ps2 they will sit around and do nothing...so does not seem like

it does much good. any suggestions?>>

If it doesn't do any good, and if your rules about chores aren't working
anyway, consider doing something altogether different, maybe. If you ghere?)
it might make your whole family a nicer place to be!

Sandra

becqui

<< I would let them do what they want to do. >>

That is what I have done for the past several months...and it has consisted
of chatting on the computer and playing video games...nothing more. I see
no educational value chatting to the same 2 people online and nothing more
for months on end.

<< Making them go along just so they get out of the house serves no
educational
purpose, no social advantage, and seems to me to be punitive. >>

When they do go they usually end up enjoying the time and or learning
something new...when they go it is to a field trip most times, I do not make
them go usually to the playground days unless we have an errand to run
before or after that they need to be there for..

<< Then find something they're interested in. Going to the park with seven
year
olds is not going to be the thing. >>

I have tried this to no avail....I am personally tired of trying to find
things that interest them...there is an excuse for every thing we suggest.

<< If it doesn't do any good, and if your rules about chores aren't working
anyway, consider doing something altogether different, maybe. If you
ghere?)
it might make your whole family a nicer place to be! >>

Such as? The kitchen will not clean itself and I am not able to clean our
whole house myself physically (I have some medical issues), nor should I
have too, these kids live here too and they should care about their home and
how it looks (this is a problem for our 14 yr old as well when it comes to
her room, which she shares with her lil sister...should her lil sister have
to deal with the pigsty?? nothing works in getting the older one to clean
up her crap, so the lil on some days can not even walk into their
room)....the kitchen is the only real chores these kids have other then
occasional things I ask them to do and their rooms. I have zero problems
with my younger ones about chores or finding things to do. I am here 24/7
other then about 4 nights a month when I work the midnights shift...not
enough to make a difference in my opinion. I do not feel I was put on this
earth to be these teenagers maid and that is what I feel like some
days...after cleaning all day I am physically exhausted and have no energy
to play/do things with the lil kids....so then they suffer because the older
kids would not help with keeping the house in a livable manner, even though
the lil kids did do their jobs. So in the end 3 people suffer because 2 did
not do their part...that is my dilemma.


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/13/03 10:30:57 AM, becqui@... writes:

<<
Such as? >>

Such as please go and read the discussions I mentioned, because I don't want
to try to reconstruct them here.

<pigsty?? nothing works in getting the older one to clean
up her crap,>>

Pigsty and crap are not the kinds of words I use about my children or their
things.
The negativity is more harmful than hours of video games and worse than any
amount of messy stuff in their rooms.

<<I do not feel I was put on this
earth to be these teenagers maid and that is what I feel like some
days..>>

Were they put on this earth to clean your house?

You had way more say in them getting here than anyone else. You don't feel
obligation to help them be happy?

Why aren't they in school?

<<after cleaning all day I am physically exhausted and have no energy
to play/do things with the lil kids....so then they suffer because the older
kids would not help with keeping the house in a livable manner, even though
the lil kids did do their jobs. So in the end 3 people suffer because 2 did
not do their part...that is my dilemma.>>

Sounds like EVERYONE's suffering because you have some rules and expectations
that aren't working out.

And some of this suffering doesn't end at the end of the day. Resentment can
last a lifetime.

-=-That is what I have done for the past several months...and it has consisted
of chatting on the computer and playing video games...nothing more. I see
no educational value chatting to the same 2 people online and nothing more
for months on end.-=-

They're probably doing what is most interesting to them at the time.

Have you played those video games yourself?
Maybe those two online people aren't saying "pigstyey would really like, that
you could enjoy together?

What about board games or card games for you to play with the older kids?
What about jigsaw puzzles?

Read this if you get a chance, please:

http://sandradodd.com/truck

It's called "Leaning on a Truck," and is about doing things side by side, and
what conversation and togetherness will come of it.

Sandra

Mary

From: "becqui" <becqui@...>

<<That is what I have done for the past several months...and it has
consisted
of chatting on the computer and playing video games...nothing more. I see
no educational value chatting to the same 2 people online and nothing more
for months on end.>>


There's the operative words, "I see no educational value." For them, they
are getting something out of it. A need they have for themselves. We don't
always have to understand why the children choose what they do. But giving
them the freedom to do so is what is important. It won't last forever.
Really it won't. I have seen and heard the Wizard of Oz so much for the last
2 weeks I have munchkins in my dreams. I don't get the why of wanting it on
so much, but it makes Alyssa happy and there's something she's getting from
it. I don't expect her to be watching it twice a day when she's 18. She's
already moved on to Snoopy!!
Your kids just sound like they haven't had enough time to do everything they
want for as long as they want. Even if that's not "enough" for you. It
obviously is for them. And that's what unschooling is all about. Trusting
them to know what and how much they need.



<<When they do go they usually end up enjoying the time and or learning
something new...when they go it is to a field trip most times, I do not make
them go usually to the playground days unless we have an errand to run
before or after that they need to be there for..>>

Are they responsible enough that you would feel comfortable leaving them
home alone? Even if you say they usually have fun and learn, maybe they are
just great kids who make the most our a situtaion they have no choice in.
But, maybe at their age, they would really like to be home alone if even for
an hour. They like it and a lot of kids need it. My 17 year old loves when
we all leave the house and she doesn't have anywhere to go. She doesn't
throw big parties or drink or smoke. She stays home alone with the stereo
blasting (something she doesn't do when people are here) and dances around
naked (another thing she doesn't get to do) and sings her guts out.
(something we have all been unfortunate enough to hear!!!) Those times when
she gets to play house all by herself and when she gets to play grown up
with her friends away on a trip are enough for her now. Her having the
freedom to do it makes her not in any hurry at all to leave home. And
remember, learning to our children doesn't always look like learning to us.
To unschool, you need to throw that "learning" attitude out the window. The
kids are learning in ways you don't realize.



<<I have tried this to no avail....I am personally tired of trying to find
things that interest them...there is an excuse for every thing we suggest.>>


Have you asked them what they would like to do or just suggest and set
things up? If they don't give you an answer, maybe it's because they just
don't know yet. They're not sure what would interest them aside form the
computer and games. For right now, it IS the computer and games. Let them do
that until their wants and needs take them elsewhere. And it may still be
computer and games but in a different way. You have to realize that now if
you really want to unschool.



<<Such as? The kitchen will not clean itself and I am not able to clean our
whole house myself physically (I have some medical issues), nor should I
have too, these kids live here too and they should care about their home and
how it looks (this is a problem for our 14 yr old as well when it comes to
her room, which she shares with her lil sister...should her lil sister have
to deal with the pigsty?? nothing works in getting the older one to clean
up her crap, so the lil on some days can not even walk into their
room)....the kitchen is the only real chores these kids have other then
occasional things I ask them to do and their rooms. I have zero problems
with my younger ones about chores or finding things to do. I am here 24/7
other then about 4 nights a month when I work the midnights shift...not
enough to make a difference in my opinion. I do not feel I was put on this
earth to be these teenagers maid and that is what I feel like some
days...after cleaning all day I am physically exhausted and have no energy
to play/do things with the lil kids....so then they suffer because the older
kids would not help with keeping the house in a livable manner, even though
the lil kids did do their jobs. So in the end 3 people suffer because 2 did
not do their part...that is my dilemma.>>


Of course your children live there too but they obviously don't have the
same wants when it comes to how YOU think the house should look. You need to
find another way to talk with them and let them know what's important to YOU
in how the house looks. Not them. If it's a matter of sharing a room, make a
deal with her so she can keep her side the way SHE wants it and ask if she
could please allow a path and some room for sister to play. There has to be
a way to divide the room and allow her the freedom to keep her stuff the way
SHE wants to.

When you mentioned that you were not put here to be a maid to the teenagers,
I immediately thought that the teenagers probably feel that way too. They
didn't ask to be here and clean a house that they don't see as dirty and
messy. YOU see it that way. You should try and look at things in a different
way from what you are accustomed to. Maybe even loosen up on some things and
make compromises all around. Like let them have their room messy and maybe
another family room or something in the house where they hang out but ask if
they can help out keeping the "whole family" rooms a bit neater. At the same
time maybe you can ease up on what you think is necessary. You have to find
a way to talk to them so they listen and understand where YOU are coming
from. At the same time, you need to understand where they are coming from in
what's important to them.

Mary B

Lee Roversi

This is an interesting discussion to me - especially about housekeeping and
such.

I loved Sandra's suggestion about reading Leaning on a Truck. I rarely have
any issues with my children when I say "Will you give me a hand with
folding this laundry?" or "I need someone to help with getting these
garbage cans to the street." or "Let's get these dishes done quickly before
we head to the beach." even "Do you need me to help you organize your
room?" or "Wanna slice these carrots and potatoes with me?" The most
appropriate and precious talks often follow, while we work side by side.
And, sometimes, I get the answer of "No, mom, I'm working on this drawing"
or whatever. Or - "Can you wait and when I'm done I'll give you a hand,
mom." Seems reasonable to me. And, if I really reflect, it seems perfectly
appropriate that I do the bulk of the household work around here . . . I am
the one with the often insanely high standards. We have no assigned chores
and it all gets done and usually with good humor. I'm a single mom with
three kids at home (19, 16 and 12) and three home businesses. I really like
to preserve our relationships - WAY MORE important to me than any power
struggles. I am deeply grateful that my kids want to be with me, talk with
me, work with me. Even though somedays it all seems to be too much. I
prefer that to the alternatives I see around me all the time . . .parents
who can't wait for school to start again after the summer, or kids who
would rather be anywhere than with their parents. How lucky I feel to walk
out of a movie theater with a teen holding each hand, babbling about the
movie together - and how sad to see other teens slinking to the cars
outside, hoping no one will see their parents waiting.

My thoughts for the day, on a misty rainy spring day on Kauai from a mother
who has just been reminded how fortunate she really is!

Aloha, Lee
North Country Farms
An Eco-Tourism Destination
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, Kauai, HI 96754
808-828-1513 phone and voice mail
www.northcountryfarms.com

jmcseals SEALS

<<<My thoughts for the day, on a misty rainy spring day on Kauai from a
mother
who has just been reminded how fortunate she really is!
Aloha, Lee>>>

This works for our family as well! I am a married single parent <bg> and I
gave up chores and such a long tie ago. I find my children are much more
willing to help and do things on their own, for their own personal pleasure
or the pleasure of being helpful. Yesterday, Haleigh came in and asked me
if I would help HER clean up the kitchen and living room! The floor was
sticky (not uncommon here) and she wanted to sit at the kitchen table and
draw and the living room was hiding behind a mountain of toys and pillows
and blankets from movie night the night before. Of course, I was happy to
help. While we were picking up, she told me she noticed how much better we
all feel when the house is clean and that she likes cleaning with me because
we always end up talking about cool stuff so it doesn't even seem like
cleaning. I almost cried. <g>

There are days when I feel like my house is consuming me. Seven kids make a
lot of messes and it is easy to feel like all I ever do is play human vacuum
races behind them. What helped me regain control of the house while
maintaining my sanity was placing wicker laundry baskets around to store kid
stuff. The little kids don't mind helping when they know they can just toss
everything into a basket and go on about their business. In the evening, I
just collect baskets and return the contents to their proper homes. It
doesn't take long and it keeps the house manageable during the day without
all the wars we used to have. Before, when I asked them to pick up, they
would carry a toy back to their room and get side-tracked so I was
constantly having to drag them back to task. How joyous that those days are
long gone and we can finally breath again while keeping the messes contained
in the meantime.

Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nellebelle

When I finally, totally, stopped limiting TV, it took about 10 months for my
kids to get their fill. They were not strictly limited before that, but I
had been setting limits in ways I hadn't paid attention to.

It is a normal reaction to go overboard on something that has been
restricted. They really won't spend every moment of the rest of their lives
on the computer. Or, if they do, they will get really good at it :-)

If they sense that you think they are -----snip> > chatting on the computer
and playing video games...nothing more. I see no educational value chatting
to the same 2 people online and nothing more for months on end.> > > >
then you are still setting limits on that activity. They may be trying to
get as much time in as possible before you change your mind and set limits
again.

Mary Ellen