principles vs rules
elfmama_2
okay, I really need some help, it's been a really bad and long
weekend and I just don't have any other place to turn.
On thursday a friend of mine and her kids dd5 and ds7months came over
to play, everything was going wonderfully until, Jaiden decided that
he wanted to give the baby his bottle, and Erika(the mom) didn't want
Jaiden to, the baby gets colic and has to be fed a certain way, she
kept trying to get JAiden to give her back the bottle and he wouldn't
and was turning it into a wrestling match, I was in the bedroom
laying Avery down(I had just fininshed nurcing him and he had nodded
off) so I wasn't able to step in until the situation had already
escalated. I gently removedJaidens hand from the bottle and asked him
to come sit with me in the rocking chair, he turned to me screamed
that he hated me, spit at me, and ran and locked himself in his room.
he's 4. Honestly, it was all I could do to keep from marching in
there and spanking him. We stoped spanking and I have been fighting
with Jason lately over the decision, this is not the first time
Jaiden has done something like this, although, this has been the
worst, thus far.
JAson feels like that we stoped spanking and have since let jaiden
run over us, and I guess its true. I have been trying so hard to
look the other way and accept the fact that he has to test us, and
see if we would take it back and start spanking again, and we haven't
not that I haven't been tempted(I'm really embaressed to admit it,
but it's true) and I have steped in and kept Jason a few times.
This is becoming a problem between me and Jason, he doesn't like the
way JAiden is treating me and the fact that he absolutly will not
listen to anything Jason will say, something that bothers JAson soooo
much. Jason is willing to belive me that not spanking will work and
that we won't have out of control kids that are major problems, we
have a friend that dosen't spank and her son is violent towards her,
his sister and pretty much everyone and it is just ignored and jason
doesn't want that. ummm oh yah, so JAson is willing to not spank, as
hard as he sometimes finds it, because I keep telling him that I
don't want our kids spanked and I feel really strongly about it but,
he keeps asking what it is that we should be doing. And honestly, I'm
at a loss, I don't know what to do.
I've read that we should have principles instead of rules, but how do
you make the switch? How do you explain to a 4yr. old? Jaiden keeps
saying that he's the boss and that no one can make him do anything,
so he's gonna do what ever he wants. In lots of ways it is fine, he
can eat when he wants to, he can go to bed when he wants to...but I
don't think he should spit in my face, am I wrong? So how do I do it,
how do we make the switch? I know that there is no instant cure for
all of this, but we are struggling and things are bad and I've tried
talking to friends and family and I get 'spank him' or 'just ignor it'
I'm sorry this is so long and all over the place but Avery is really
sick and I've had to stop about 20 times and I keep looseing my train
of thought, so if anyone made it to the end of this, I thank you.
Rebecca
weekend and I just don't have any other place to turn.
On thursday a friend of mine and her kids dd5 and ds7months came over
to play, everything was going wonderfully until, Jaiden decided that
he wanted to give the baby his bottle, and Erika(the mom) didn't want
Jaiden to, the baby gets colic and has to be fed a certain way, she
kept trying to get JAiden to give her back the bottle and he wouldn't
and was turning it into a wrestling match, I was in the bedroom
laying Avery down(I had just fininshed nurcing him and he had nodded
off) so I wasn't able to step in until the situation had already
escalated. I gently removedJaidens hand from the bottle and asked him
to come sit with me in the rocking chair, he turned to me screamed
that he hated me, spit at me, and ran and locked himself in his room.
he's 4. Honestly, it was all I could do to keep from marching in
there and spanking him. We stoped spanking and I have been fighting
with Jason lately over the decision, this is not the first time
Jaiden has done something like this, although, this has been the
worst, thus far.
JAson feels like that we stoped spanking and have since let jaiden
run over us, and I guess its true. I have been trying so hard to
look the other way and accept the fact that he has to test us, and
see if we would take it back and start spanking again, and we haven't
not that I haven't been tempted(I'm really embaressed to admit it,
but it's true) and I have steped in and kept Jason a few times.
This is becoming a problem between me and Jason, he doesn't like the
way JAiden is treating me and the fact that he absolutly will not
listen to anything Jason will say, something that bothers JAson soooo
much. Jason is willing to belive me that not spanking will work and
that we won't have out of control kids that are major problems, we
have a friend that dosen't spank and her son is violent towards her,
his sister and pretty much everyone and it is just ignored and jason
doesn't want that. ummm oh yah, so JAson is willing to not spank, as
hard as he sometimes finds it, because I keep telling him that I
don't want our kids spanked and I feel really strongly about it but,
he keeps asking what it is that we should be doing. And honestly, I'm
at a loss, I don't know what to do.
I've read that we should have principles instead of rules, but how do
you make the switch? How do you explain to a 4yr. old? Jaiden keeps
saying that he's the boss and that no one can make him do anything,
so he's gonna do what ever he wants. In lots of ways it is fine, he
can eat when he wants to, he can go to bed when he wants to...but I
don't think he should spit in my face, am I wrong? So how do I do it,
how do we make the switch? I know that there is no instant cure for
all of this, but we are struggling and things are bad and I've tried
talking to friends and family and I get 'spank him' or 'just ignor it'
I'm sorry this is so long and all over the place but Avery is really
sick and I've had to stop about 20 times and I keep looseing my train
of thought, so if anyone made it to the end of this, I thank you.
Rebecca
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/12/03 4:35:49 PM, elfmama@... writes:
<< Jason is willing to belive me that not spanking will work and
that we won't have out of control kids that are major problems, we
have a friend that dosen't spank and her son is violent towards her,
his sister and pretty much everyone and it is just ignored and jason
doesn't want that. >>
"Is just ignored" is not the opposite of "never spanked."
<<I've read that we should have principles instead of rules, but how do
you make the switch? How do you explain to a 4yr. old?>>
Have all the rules you want if that's what you're used to doing. But based
on your principles, you might want to soften some of the rules, gradually, as
you get used to doing things.
When you're driving a standard transmission car, do you have the clutch all
the way in, or all the way out? Do you let the clutch out and then push the
gas pedal? Do you push the gas all the way while the clutch is in? WHAT?
WHAT? WHAT?
It's like that.
If you dump your rules before you HAVE principles, your car won't go.
If you keep your rules and try to apply your principles in the presence of
arbitrary rules and punishments, your car will make no progress, and you'll
waste a bunch of gas and flood the carburetor.
The analogy is ended.
<Jaiden keeps
saying that he's the boss and that no one can make him do anything,
so he's gonna do what ever he wants. In lots of ways it is fine, he
can eat when he wants to, he can go to bed when he wants to...but I
don't think he should spit in my face, am I wrong?>>
Did you tell him he was the boss of eating and going to bed?
You let the clutch out before you had any acceleration? (The analogy has
risen again.)
<<I've tried
talking to friends and family and I get 'spank him' or 'just ignor it'>>
Talk about it calmly to him.
Ask him what he would do if he were the mom or dad.
Distract him with interesting stuff to see or do.
Ask him to hold your hand, or to show you his toes, or something that keeps
him close but doesn't sound like "You come sit RIGHT BY ME, young man..."
Other ideas should be by here soon.
Sandra
<< Jason is willing to belive me that not spanking will work and
that we won't have out of control kids that are major problems, we
have a friend that dosen't spank and her son is violent towards her,
his sister and pretty much everyone and it is just ignored and jason
doesn't want that. >>
"Is just ignored" is not the opposite of "never spanked."
<<I've read that we should have principles instead of rules, but how do
you make the switch? How do you explain to a 4yr. old?>>
Have all the rules you want if that's what you're used to doing. But based
on your principles, you might want to soften some of the rules, gradually, as
you get used to doing things.
When you're driving a standard transmission car, do you have the clutch all
the way in, or all the way out? Do you let the clutch out and then push the
gas pedal? Do you push the gas all the way while the clutch is in? WHAT?
WHAT? WHAT?
It's like that.
If you dump your rules before you HAVE principles, your car won't go.
If you keep your rules and try to apply your principles in the presence of
arbitrary rules and punishments, your car will make no progress, and you'll
waste a bunch of gas and flood the carburetor.
The analogy is ended.
<Jaiden keeps
saying that he's the boss and that no one can make him do anything,
so he's gonna do what ever he wants. In lots of ways it is fine, he
can eat when he wants to, he can go to bed when he wants to...but I
don't think he should spit in my face, am I wrong?>>
Did you tell him he was the boss of eating and going to bed?
You let the clutch out before you had any acceleration? (The analogy has
risen again.)
<<I've tried
talking to friends and family and I get 'spank him' or 'just ignor it'>>
Talk about it calmly to him.
Ask him what he would do if he were the mom or dad.
Distract him with interesting stuff to see or do.
Ask him to hold your hand, or to show you his toes, or something that keeps
him close but doesn't sound like "You come sit RIGHT BY ME, young man..."
Other ideas should be by here soon.
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
----- Original Message -----
From: "elfmama_2" <elfmama@...>
** I've read that we should have principles instead of rules, but how do
> you make the switch? How do you explain to a 4yr. old?**
I think just holding him and talking calmly with him. Let your calmness
overflow onto him. That's what I would do with my son when he was that
age. You could almost see the change. The agressiveness/tension would
just melt away.
And if you are switching your parenting style, its going to take some time
for it to sink into your lives. I know for us it has also been slow going,
but it is going. I can see small, but good steps. Just eliminating the
spanking is huge! That's great.
I also would explain things to my son when he was quite young and it was
amazing how much he understood. I was thinking about the bottle incident.
Some people would question me in talking this resonably with a 3 or 4 year
old, they didn't think it was worth it. But then they would ask me how he
was so well-behaved?
You are going in the right direction, tell your husband that it will take
some time to see all the benefits. I bet if you look at things closely
you'll see some good small changes already. It will be so worth your
time in the end, you'll have children that will come to you and talk to
you, you'll have a great relationship.
Kelli
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/12/03 5:20:15 PM, tktraas@... writes:
<< I think just holding him and talking calmly with him. Let your calmness
overflow onto him. That's what I would do with my son when he was that
age. You could almost see the change. The agressiveness/tension would
just melt away. >>
I like that.
And if he's still flailing and yelling, hold him with his back to you, and if
you can do it, take him outside to do something real, like check the mailbox,
or move the water in the yard, or throw a frisbee for the dog a few times.
He'll be away from the stress, in the wind and sunshine or rain or whatever
(new and better oxygen), and he'll be alone with you without being "in time
out."
One thing I've told my kids in various bits and parts over the years is that
I'm risking the wrath of friends and relatives by giving them some of the
power and privilege that the government and the culture gives me. I've just
SAID that the county expects me to feed them and make sure they have clothes
on, and I'm willing to give them a ton of say in that but they can't get me
in trouble, because some people would NOT be thinking it was okay that they
had so much freedom.
So I'd remind them that the freedom was given because I WANTED to give it to
them, but there were some realities about my responsibilities LEGALLY so we
always needed to take that into consideration.
I can take them beyond the short arm of the school, but not beyond the long
arm of the law.
Sandra
<< I think just holding him and talking calmly with him. Let your calmness
overflow onto him. That's what I would do with my son when he was that
age. You could almost see the change. The agressiveness/tension would
just melt away. >>
I like that.
And if he's still flailing and yelling, hold him with his back to you, and if
you can do it, take him outside to do something real, like check the mailbox,
or move the water in the yard, or throw a frisbee for the dog a few times.
He'll be away from the stress, in the wind and sunshine or rain or whatever
(new and better oxygen), and he'll be alone with you without being "in time
out."
One thing I've told my kids in various bits and parts over the years is that
I'm risking the wrath of friends and relatives by giving them some of the
power and privilege that the government and the culture gives me. I've just
SAID that the county expects me to feed them and make sure they have clothes
on, and I'm willing to give them a ton of say in that but they can't get me
in trouble, because some people would NOT be thinking it was okay that they
had so much freedom.
So I'd remind them that the freedom was given because I WANTED to give it to
them, but there were some realities about my responsibilities LEGALLY so we
always needed to take that into consideration.
I can take them beyond the short arm of the school, but not beyond the long
arm of the law.
Sandra
jmcseals SEALS
<<In lots of ways it is fine, he
can eat when he wants to, he can go to bed when he wants to...but I
don't think he should spit in my face, am I wrong?>>
No, you are not wrong. He shouldn't be spitting in anyones face! :) I'm
going to make a gentle assumption here to make my response flow in a more
understandable way...
It sounds like you are in the same place I was/am. Once I stopped spanking
and punishments in general, I went a bit overboard and decided anything and
everything had to go. I was revamping the ship and startin from scratch.
The problem with that is my children were used to being punished and
spanked. I made the mistake of not listening to myself. I just kind of up
and let everything go cold turkey. Some things, like smoking habits and
spanking are excellent things to go cold turkey on but rythyms and disipline
aren't. Children still need guidance and limits.
When I cut out my little ones bedtimes (which are flexiblebut no later than
9pm), quiet times and general mealtimes, they went haywire. I made the
mistake of thinking that gentle parenting, peaceful parenting, whatever term
you use, meant total and complete freedom. I set aside my own inner voice
and listened to other people that were on the opposite extreme of where I
was. Many of whom led completely child-centered lives. By that I mean, if
their child refused to ride in a carseat, either they wouldn't leave the
house or they would let their child roam free in the car. (This was an
example given to me at one time.) I went against *my* inner voice and chose
not to leave the house, because I certainly wasn't going to allow my 18
month old son ride around in the car jumping up in my lap! I soon figured
out that I was going to have to insist on car seats but I found ways of
keeping him occupied so he wasn't miserable. It worked. There were
occasions when he would climb out so I pulled over and either let him run
around in the van for a while or gave him something new to distract him.
I think the key with Jaiden (sorry but I think I may have misspelled his
name) is to give him limits and guidance. I realize you weren't in the room
at the time, so in that case, I would have explained to him, in front of the
offended, that when he is asked to return someones belongings, in this case
the bottle, he needs to give it back, otherwise he will have to stay with
Mommy while the baby and her mommy are visiting. At that point, I might
have also offered him his own baby doll to feed. As far as spitting in your
face, I would let him know that it isn't okay to spit on other people and if
he feels angry, he can talk about it and go outside and spit in the grass if
he feels like he needs to. This way, he has the opportunity to let out his
frustrations without harming other people. The *I hate you* stage is pretty
normal, I think and I would respond that I understand you are upset so why
don't we go spend some time outside together and we can talk about it. If
he doesn't wnt to talk about it, try spitting in the grass with him! He's
young and probably felt like he was trying to help the baby. When the
struggle ensued, he most likely became confused and frustrated. And hey, if
you go spit with him, you will most likely both end up laughing. You
offered clear boundries (we return other peoples belongings when asked, we
don't spit on other people), allowed him to vent his anger and frustrations
(voicing his feelings and spitting on the ground), and you can now enjoy
each others company again (spitting together and laughing).
I hope all this made sense! My kids are turning on the waterhose so I have
to save my hanging laundry and hit send.......
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
can eat when he wants to, he can go to bed when he wants to...but I
don't think he should spit in my face, am I wrong?>>
No, you are not wrong. He shouldn't be spitting in anyones face! :) I'm
going to make a gentle assumption here to make my response flow in a more
understandable way...
It sounds like you are in the same place I was/am. Once I stopped spanking
and punishments in general, I went a bit overboard and decided anything and
everything had to go. I was revamping the ship and startin from scratch.
The problem with that is my children were used to being punished and
spanked. I made the mistake of not listening to myself. I just kind of up
and let everything go cold turkey. Some things, like smoking habits and
spanking are excellent things to go cold turkey on but rythyms and disipline
aren't. Children still need guidance and limits.
When I cut out my little ones bedtimes (which are flexiblebut no later than
9pm), quiet times and general mealtimes, they went haywire. I made the
mistake of thinking that gentle parenting, peaceful parenting, whatever term
you use, meant total and complete freedom. I set aside my own inner voice
and listened to other people that were on the opposite extreme of where I
was. Many of whom led completely child-centered lives. By that I mean, if
their child refused to ride in a carseat, either they wouldn't leave the
house or they would let their child roam free in the car. (This was an
example given to me at one time.) I went against *my* inner voice and chose
not to leave the house, because I certainly wasn't going to allow my 18
month old son ride around in the car jumping up in my lap! I soon figured
out that I was going to have to insist on car seats but I found ways of
keeping him occupied so he wasn't miserable. It worked. There were
occasions when he would climb out so I pulled over and either let him run
around in the van for a while or gave him something new to distract him.
I think the key with Jaiden (sorry but I think I may have misspelled his
name) is to give him limits and guidance. I realize you weren't in the room
at the time, so in that case, I would have explained to him, in front of the
offended, that when he is asked to return someones belongings, in this case
the bottle, he needs to give it back, otherwise he will have to stay with
Mommy while the baby and her mommy are visiting. At that point, I might
have also offered him his own baby doll to feed. As far as spitting in your
face, I would let him know that it isn't okay to spit on other people and if
he feels angry, he can talk about it and go outside and spit in the grass if
he feels like he needs to. This way, he has the opportunity to let out his
frustrations without harming other people. The *I hate you* stage is pretty
normal, I think and I would respond that I understand you are upset so why
don't we go spend some time outside together and we can talk about it. If
he doesn't wnt to talk about it, try spitting in the grass with him! He's
young and probably felt like he was trying to help the baby. When the
struggle ensued, he most likely became confused and frustrated. And hey, if
you go spit with him, you will most likely both end up laughing. You
offered clear boundries (we return other peoples belongings when asked, we
don't spit on other people), allowed him to vent his anger and frustrations
(voicing his feelings and spitting on the ground), and you can now enjoy
each others company again (spitting together and laughing).
I hope all this made sense! My kids are turning on the waterhose so I have
to save my hanging laundry and hit send.......
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
>So I'd remind them that the freedom was given because I WANTED to give itto
>them, but there were some realities about my responsibilities LEGALLY so weI can't tell you what it means to see you say this. Someone that everyone
>always needed to take that into consideration.
>I can take them beyond the short arm of the school, but not beyond the long
>arm of the law.
>Sandra
here holds up as an example.
I JUST got done saying a variation of this to James (the 7 year old from the
bad mommy moment.) I felt horrible saying it, like I was using it as a
weapon, but it is a basic truth. I WOULD leave him home for an hour or so or
more, if I could. He's a smart, capable kid who I trust. In this case,
it's not about him, but about the law.
Thank you.
Kelly
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/12/03 6:58:50 PM, mina@... writes:
<< I JUST got done saying a variation of this to James (the 7 year old from
the
bad mommy moment.) I felt horrible saying it, like I was using it as a
weapon, but it is a basic truth. I WOULD leave him home for an hour or so or
more, if I could. He's a smart, capable kid who I trust. In this case,
it's not about him, but about the law. >>
Depending on the kid, the park, the town, etc., this might or might not be
useful advice:
I have let a kid stay in the car, with a book or a puzzle or paper and pens,
if he didn't want to play, usually with the car door open and me not too far
away. Often they would come out, or other kids would go over and at least
visit him in there.
Sandra
<< I JUST got done saying a variation of this to James (the 7 year old from
the
bad mommy moment.) I felt horrible saying it, like I was using it as a
weapon, but it is a basic truth. I WOULD leave him home for an hour or so or
more, if I could. He's a smart, capable kid who I trust. In this case,
it's not about him, but about the law. >>
Depending on the kid, the park, the town, etc., this might or might not be
useful advice:
I have let a kid stay in the car, with a book or a puzzle or paper and pens,
if he didn't want to play, usually with the car door open and me not too far
away. Often they would come out, or other kids would go over and at least
visit him in there.
Sandra
Deborah Lewis
I think it's really wonderful you stopped spanking. No good thing ever
happened because a big person hit a little one. Not ever.
He's very small. He doesn't understand all the nuances of human
communication yet, but he's putting great effort into communicating with
you. You may not like the method he's using right now, he probably
isn't happy with it either, but for what ever reason it's the only way he
feels he can reach you.
In every moment I can ever remember when Dylan's behavior was something I
didn't like it was because I was parenting badly. Every time, without
exception. I missed his cues about being hungry, or tired or stressed
or overly stimulated, or his need to be cuddled or whatever it was. If
we are parenting badly how can we expect them to respond in the best
ways?
I'm not making a judgement about your parenting, I'm just suggesting you
look at how you're interacting with him, communicating with him and see
if there is something you can help him with. Does he need more of your
time, more ideas about feeling good about himself and his family?
He's little. He just plain doesn't have all the information and tools
about communication someone your age has.
And please remember he doesn't want you to feel bad about him. He
doesn't want to feel bad about you. He must have a powerful need to
express himself to you for whatever reason.
This behavior you don't like is not because you're not spanking any more.
It's because he's needing something, and trying to express it and
doesn't have a better way to do it at the moment.
Stay warm and loving to him and spend time with him whenever you can.
In happy times make sure he knows you like to be with him and in his
difficult moments make sure he know you love him no matter what.
Try to understand he's behaving exactly the way he's able to right now.
Imagine how frustrating things must be for him to be feeling this way.
He's doing the best he can.
So I'll play the imagination game. Maybe everything wasn't as fine as
you thought that day. Maybe there were little problems with your friend
or her kid and Jaiden did his best to cope, but when you were out of the
room, away from him, he was on his own with these people who were maybe
getting on his nerves. Maybe he thought he was being friendly and kind
to give the baby the bottle. Maybe it seemed an insult for your friend
to oppose him. Maybe all he needed was a reason the baby couldn't have
the bottle but he just got a bossy "stop that" from the mom.
How much do you talk to him about feelings and love and family and
happiness?
***How do you explain to a 4yr. old?***
This kind of stands out in your post, and I wonder how you communicate
with him. How would you explain to anyone? Do you tell him it's not
nice to spit and that you wouldn't spit on him? Does he get
explanations for why some things aren't nice?
Sandra said it somewhere, this is just a glimpse of a little part of who
he is right now, this isn't the whole of him.
Deb L
happened because a big person hit a little one. Not ever.
He's very small. He doesn't understand all the nuances of human
communication yet, but he's putting great effort into communicating with
you. You may not like the method he's using right now, he probably
isn't happy with it either, but for what ever reason it's the only way he
feels he can reach you.
In every moment I can ever remember when Dylan's behavior was something I
didn't like it was because I was parenting badly. Every time, without
exception. I missed his cues about being hungry, or tired or stressed
or overly stimulated, or his need to be cuddled or whatever it was. If
we are parenting badly how can we expect them to respond in the best
ways?
I'm not making a judgement about your parenting, I'm just suggesting you
look at how you're interacting with him, communicating with him and see
if there is something you can help him with. Does he need more of your
time, more ideas about feeling good about himself and his family?
He's little. He just plain doesn't have all the information and tools
about communication someone your age has.
And please remember he doesn't want you to feel bad about him. He
doesn't want to feel bad about you. He must have a powerful need to
express himself to you for whatever reason.
This behavior you don't like is not because you're not spanking any more.
It's because he's needing something, and trying to express it and
doesn't have a better way to do it at the moment.
Stay warm and loving to him and spend time with him whenever you can.
In happy times make sure he knows you like to be with him and in his
difficult moments make sure he know you love him no matter what.
Try to understand he's behaving exactly the way he's able to right now.
Imagine how frustrating things must be for him to be feeling this way.
He's doing the best he can.
So I'll play the imagination game. Maybe everything wasn't as fine as
you thought that day. Maybe there were little problems with your friend
or her kid and Jaiden did his best to cope, but when you were out of the
room, away from him, he was on his own with these people who were maybe
getting on his nerves. Maybe he thought he was being friendly and kind
to give the baby the bottle. Maybe it seemed an insult for your friend
to oppose him. Maybe all he needed was a reason the baby couldn't have
the bottle but he just got a bossy "stop that" from the mom.
How much do you talk to him about feelings and love and family and
happiness?
***How do you explain to a 4yr. old?***
This kind of stands out in your post, and I wonder how you communicate
with him. How would you explain to anyone? Do you tell him it's not
nice to spit and that you wouldn't spit on him? Does he get
explanations for why some things aren't nice?
Sandra said it somewhere, this is just a glimpse of a little part of who
he is right now, this isn't the whole of him.
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/12/2003 10:09:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ddzimlew@... writes:
Another keeper. Printed and saved.
Thank you, Deb!
~Kelly
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ddzimlew@... writes:
><snip>
> I think it's really wonderful you stopped spanking. No good thing ever
> happened because a big person hit a little one. Not ever.
>
> He's very small. He doesn't understand all the nuances of human
> communication yet, but he's putting great effort into communicating with
> you. You may not like the method he's using right now, he probably
> isn't happy with it either, but for what ever reason it's the only way he
> feels he can reach you.
Another keeper. Printed and saved.
Thank you, Deb!
~Kelly
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Robin Clevenger
> ----- Original Message -----I've got a few thoughts on this one, because I have a very fiery daughter
> From: "elfmama_2" <elfmama@...>
>
> ** I've read that we should have principles instead of rules, but how do
> > you make the switch? How do you explain to a 4yr. old?**
who will be four this fall. She's quite a handful! I think the number one
thing that helps in situations like you are discussing is just to first try
to see things from her standpoint. What does she know about this situation?
How does she feel? Would she know that feeding the baby wrong give it colic?
Even if she knew that, would she be able to control her urge to keep holding
onto that bottle. Or if she's mad, can she really possess the self-control
to contain it? I can't always do that, it's a tall order for a 3 or 4 year
old! So once I'm in that headspace of "What is my child feeling?" instead of
"my child is misbehaving", I can try to let go of my own fear, anger,
embarassment, or whatever is going to make me react to this situation
instead of helping my daughter learn, which is really what I want.
What I would do in this situation is to explain why the baby needs its
bottle and needs its mom to feed it to her. If my daughter is still angry
about that, I would offer to hold her or help her move through the anger,
but I would remove her from the baby if she was causing it to get fussy and
have problems feeding. I might suggest something like getting a water bottle
or cup and feeding one of her own dolls or stuffed animals. My daughter's
still nursing, so I'd definitely suggest that as a way for her to calm down.
I might find a way to give her some power back, because losing control over
the bottle is losing power and small kids I think feel quite powerless. Even
if we parent them respectfully and they get more power than other small kids
(like determining food and bedtime), they still can't go where they want
when they want and do everything they want, they depend on us for
transportation, providing food, etc. It's got to be hard at times.
So, to use an example that happened when a friend of mine was over here
watching my kids yesterday: My daughter (3) and her daughter (4) were having
a tussle over a toy. My daughter was lying on the floor and screaming and
being angry about it and in general being a 3 year old. My friend suggested
reading a book, and asked my daughter if she wanted to pick the book out or
have her brother pick it out. My daughter leaped off of the floor and said
"I'll pick it out!" and Bingo, tantrum over. She got to do something fun,
she was given power when she was feeling powerless (not being able to
totally control a toy that her friend had). Sounds like a good solution to
me.
>In lots of ways it is fine, heAbsolutely not! If my kids are mad and do something that's not appropriate,
>can eat when he wants to, he can go to bed when he wants to...but I
>don't think he should spit in my face, am I wrong?
I just tell them "You can be as mad as you want, but you cannot <<spit in my
face, hit your sister with that baseball bat, throw a rock at the dog,
whatever>>". I give them alternatives: "You can throw this pillow at me!" or
something like that, or I tell them that I can hug them if they want that
(my son usually does, my daughter doesn't). But keep in mind that you cannot
*make* your child not spit at you. Sure, you can throw consequences at him -
time-outs, spankings, etc. but he still might do it the next time he gets
mad and then you have to keep escalating the consequences until he reaches
that point some day where he is too big to hit or control and then where are
you? Instead, if you build a relationship of trust *now*, by the time he is
big, he will trust you with situations he can't handle.
I do tell my kids my expectations for appropriate behavior: "It's not okay
to spit at someone, if you're feeling that angry you can do X, Y, or Z")
I tell them my feelings: "I don't like to be spit on, that doesn't feel nice
to me."
I might even set my own limits: "I am not going to stand near you while
you're spitting." or "You can spit outside, but not inside. Would you like
to go spit at a tree?"
I'll recommend again the book "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline" and
have your husband read it too if you can. It gives excellent descriptions of
alternatives to punitive parenting. It gives a step-by-step road map to get
there from where you are. It's an excellent book.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Rebecca DeLong
I just wanted to thank everyone for their kind responses, I'm going to go to the library as soon as Avery is well enough to go out to get the book recomendation (thanx Robin) I'm going to keep trying to see things from his perspective and breath. I'm thinking that some of it was to much excitement and he also seems to be getting sick so... anyways, I've been on the 'puter a lot the past few days but not really able to type much and I had wanted to address a couple of the different posts but I dumped my saved email and I'm not up to the archives right now.
Sorry about this post but I'm still lacking in sleep, but I wanted to say thanx.
Rebecca
*~*Leave the crowd, look within, and let your dreams soar*~*
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Sorry about this post but I'm still lacking in sleep, but I wanted to say thanx.
Rebecca
*~*Leave the crowd, look within, and let your dreams soar*~*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> In every moment I can ever remember when Dylan's behavior was something II know I'm DAYS behind in my email, but I want to thank Deb for this. It
> didn't like it was because I was parenting badly.
really spoke to me. I'm a recovering yeller and can usually trace our
difficulties to a pre-yelling moment. We've needed to spend time de-yelling
and sometimes fall off the bandwagon. Maybe the mom of the original post
needs to spend time in de-spanking land?
Deb L also wrote a great bit about kids and housework a while (some months)
ago. It might help the mom of the teenagers to search the archieves for it.
It helped me lots.
Elizabeth (going back to catching up)
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