Feeling alienated from non-homeschool moms
HiTekMom
When engaged with conversations, with other moms, I'm usually the last to say I homeschool. Not because I'm embarrassed or anything, it's just I get this, "to each his own" remarks from moms who have chosen to place their children in public school.I usually try to break the ice by say, "Homeschooling isn't for everyone." But somehow I still get this cold-shoulder attitude from some moms - - as if they are threaten by My choice.Deeply, I feel that they feel guilty of the choice they made to go to work and place their children in public school. I usually try to change to subject, but that "air" is somewhat still there.These are woman in my subdivision, I want to get to know them, but the really guilty ones avoid me. I'm okay with that. Does anyone else get this feeling from moms who choose public schooling vs homeschooling and work-outside-the home instead of sah?Or is it just me? Your feedback is graciously considered. Thank you, HiTekMomChristian (10yrs) Chloe (15mos)
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jmcseals SEALS
<<Does anyone else get this feeling from moms who choose public schooling vs
homeschooling and work-outside-the home instead of sah?>>
Absolutely! I even get it from my ENTIRE family and many days, that
includes my husband! The best thing I can think of is just to perservere.
Ignore the glares and comments and try to be friendly. Maybe you are
misreading what they are saying. Maybe not. There will be some who 'get
over it' and will become your friends and admire what you do...even if they
wouldn't choose that path themselves; and there will be those who continue
to act like blooming igmoes and walk around with their snouts in the air.
I'd try at least to get a few in my ranks. Likely your children will be
playing with their children, so you need to be friendly with some of them!
I know it's frustrating, but I don't know what else to suggest.
Good luck,
Jennifer
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homeschooling and work-outside-the home instead of sah?>>
Absolutely! I even get it from my ENTIRE family and many days, that
includes my husband! The best thing I can think of is just to perservere.
Ignore the glares and comments and try to be friendly. Maybe you are
misreading what they are saying. Maybe not. There will be some who 'get
over it' and will become your friends and admire what you do...even if they
wouldn't choose that path themselves; and there will be those who continue
to act like blooming igmoes and walk around with their snouts in the air.
I'd try at least to get a few in my ranks. Likely your children will be
playing with their children, so you need to be friendly with some of them!
I know it's frustrating, but I don't know what else to suggest.
Good luck,
Jennifer
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Olga
I think we all get it. I know what you mean, I always feel like I am
*apologizing* (it works for us, its not right for everyone, etc.)
Many of my friends have been very supportive but they all say ,"I
wish I could do that, but I couldn't. I do not have the patience--as
if I am a martyr for this choice) The saddest thing is not one of
those people have ever asked how I found it, what books I read, etc.
Inside, I feel they do not want to know. They are "blissfully
unaware" which is certianly easier but not better. In alot of ways
these are the same people that never question their Doctors,
government and such. They *are* the products of the school system.
I am sorry you are having a hard time. It makes a big difference to
have support.
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], HiTekMom <hitekmom@y...>
wrote:
it's just I get this, "to each his own" remarks from moms who have
chosen to place their children in public school.I usually try to
break the ice by say, "Homeschooling isn't for everyone." But somehow
I still get this cold-shoulder attitude from some moms - - as if they
are threaten by My choice.Deeply, I feel that they feel guilty of the
choice they made to go to work and place their children in public
school. I usually try to change to subject, but that "air" is
somewhat still there.These are woman in my subdivision, I want to get
to know them, but the really guilty ones avoid me. I'm okay with
that. Does anyone else get this feeling from moms who choose public
schooling vs homeschooling and work-outside-the home instead of sah?
Or is it just me? Your feedback is graciously considered. Thank you,
HiTekMomChristian (10yrs) Chloe (15mos)
*apologizing* (it works for us, its not right for everyone, etc.)
Many of my friends have been very supportive but they all say ,"I
wish I could do that, but I couldn't. I do not have the patience--as
if I am a martyr for this choice) The saddest thing is not one of
those people have ever asked how I found it, what books I read, etc.
Inside, I feel they do not want to know. They are "blissfully
unaware" which is certianly easier but not better. In alot of ways
these are the same people that never question their Doctors,
government and such. They *are* the products of the school system.
I am sorry you are having a hard time. It makes a big difference to
have support.
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], HiTekMom <hitekmom@y...>
wrote:
> When engaged with conversations, with other moms, I'm usually thelast to say I homeschool. Not because I'm embarrassed or anything,
it's just I get this, "to each his own" remarks from moms who have
chosen to place their children in public school.I usually try to
break the ice by say, "Homeschooling isn't for everyone." But somehow
I still get this cold-shoulder attitude from some moms - - as if they
are threaten by My choice.Deeply, I feel that they feel guilty of the
choice they made to go to work and place their children in public
school. I usually try to change to subject, but that "air" is
somewhat still there.These are woman in my subdivision, I want to get
to know them, but the really guilty ones avoid me. I'm okay with
that. Does anyone else get this feeling from moms who choose public
schooling vs homeschooling and work-outside-the home instead of sah?
Or is it just me? Your feedback is graciously considered. Thank you,
HiTekMomChristian (10yrs) Chloe (15mos)
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sorcha_aisling
Sometimes I wonder if there's any group of people so vicious to each
other as women. It's like a division we shouldn't have, a war zone
with WOHM vs SAHM and it's not personal, it's just there. And we can
try to ignore it, but it's not going away. WOHMs are afraid that
we're judging them for not "raising their own children" (and admit
it, many of us are). SAHMs are afraid that they're judging us
for "letting feminism down" or even "being lazy and wanting someone
else to support us". And admittedly, some of them are. It's an ugly
thing between women, but the fact is that there are nasty judgments
on both sides and individual women are caught in it just by the
decisions we make in our own homes, which are personal decisions and
not usually intended as political statements. I wish I knew what to
do about it. Women will become truly powerful when we learn to stand
beside each other instead of across invisible battle lines.
I wonder how much of it the media helps with. I read a book when I
was in college, it was written by a slave owner in the 1600s and he
said the way to keep slaves in line is to divide them. Make some of
them field workers and others house servants (divided by the shade of
their skin) and they'll be so busy fighting over who's superior and
judging each other by every little shade of color difference that
they won't have time or inclination to revolt. I wonder how much of
the war between women is manufactured by a media that doesn't care
whether women have power and likes to see the fallout when they
say, "Look what the other side has been saying about you!"
Sorcha
other as women. It's like a division we shouldn't have, a war zone
with WOHM vs SAHM and it's not personal, it's just there. And we can
try to ignore it, but it's not going away. WOHMs are afraid that
we're judging them for not "raising their own children" (and admit
it, many of us are). SAHMs are afraid that they're judging us
for "letting feminism down" or even "being lazy and wanting someone
else to support us". And admittedly, some of them are. It's an ugly
thing between women, but the fact is that there are nasty judgments
on both sides and individual women are caught in it just by the
decisions we make in our own homes, which are personal decisions and
not usually intended as political statements. I wish I knew what to
do about it. Women will become truly powerful when we learn to stand
beside each other instead of across invisible battle lines.
I wonder how much of it the media helps with. I read a book when I
was in college, it was written by a slave owner in the 1600s and he
said the way to keep slaves in line is to divide them. Make some of
them field workers and others house servants (divided by the shade of
their skin) and they'll be so busy fighting over who's superior and
judging each other by every little shade of color difference that
they won't have time or inclination to revolt. I wonder how much of
the war between women is manufactured by a media that doesn't care
whether women have power and likes to see the fallout when they
say, "Look what the other side has been saying about you!"
Sorcha
zenmomma2kids
>>Does anyone else get this feeling from moms who choose publicschooling vs homeschooling and work-outside-the home instead of sah?
Or is it just me? >>
It's not just you. We make people uncomfortable by demonstrating that
there is another way. The worst is usually when the kids really like
me and being at our house because it's fun. Parents feel threatened
by that.
Life is good.
~Mary
moonstarshooter
You know, I actually feel less alienated from my non-homeschool mom
friends than I do from my school-at-home friends. School-at-homers
seem to be very uneasy around unschoolers. I guess it is still the
same type of thing, that in their mind our lifestyle somehow puts
down theirs.
I am not sure that the non-homeschool moms totally feel guilty,
because most I know would never even consider homeschooling, and are
so sucked into the whole educational culture they don't even realize
the wrong in it. I think we all just tend to get (at least a little)
defensive when someone is doing something "new" and "radical" and we
assume that they think we are wrong for not doing it.
At least that is what I am working on in telling people that I
unschool. It is hard to explain why I am unschooling without saying
what is wrong with schooling at home. Same with homeschooling in
general. It is hard to explain why we homeschool without saying what
is wrong with the public/private educational system that they are
involved in.
But no, you are definitely not alone!
Tory
friends than I do from my school-at-home friends. School-at-homers
seem to be very uneasy around unschoolers. I guess it is still the
same type of thing, that in their mind our lifestyle somehow puts
down theirs.
I am not sure that the non-homeschool moms totally feel guilty,
because most I know would never even consider homeschooling, and are
so sucked into the whole educational culture they don't even realize
the wrong in it. I think we all just tend to get (at least a little)
defensive when someone is doing something "new" and "radical" and we
assume that they think we are wrong for not doing it.
At least that is what I am working on in telling people that I
unschool. It is hard to explain why I am unschooling without saying
what is wrong with schooling at home. Same with homeschooling in
general. It is hard to explain why we homeschool without saying what
is wrong with the public/private educational system that they are
involved in.
But no, you are definitely not alone!
Tory
Tammy in MS
Just the other day I got "Are all these yours?" at the market. I only have
4. She said she couldn't have 4 because they would drive her batty and that
her 2 make her nuts. I guess people are just very cautious and unsure about
anything they haven't researched, and won't research anything they find
intimidating or uninteresting to them. People like things to be easy and
comfortable. So do I.
The hardest thing I ever did was to look at myself honestly and change the
way I live. How many times did I speak out to the universe to help me see
how to be a different mommy ( i knew i wasn't following my instincts), how
many candles did I burn? I don't know. All I know is all of a sudden I
started looking things up, reading, researching, and found unschooling.com,
again. I had run across it a couple years ago but thought it was too
radical, couldn't be done by me. lol.. I just had some more searching to
do.
Anyway, to get back on your question, it's not just you. I haven't had any
really cold shoulders, probably because I'm not as sociable as people say I
should" be... whatever that means.
tammy t.
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, May 11, 2003 08:46:38
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Feeling alienated from non-homeschool moms
When engaged with conversations, with other moms, I'm usually the last to
say I homeschool. Not because I'm embarrassed or anything, it's just I get
this, "to each his own" remarks from moms who have chosen to place their
children in public school.I usually try to break the ice by say,
Homeschooling isn't for everyone." But somehow I still get this
cold-shoulder attitude from some moms - - as if they are threaten by My
choice.Deeply, I feel that they feel guilty of the choice they made to go to
work and place their children in public school. I usually try to change to
subject, but that "air" is somewhat still there.These are woman in my
subdivision, I want to get to know them, but the really guilty ones avoid me
I'm okay with that. Does anyone else get this feeling from moms who choose
public schooling vs homeschooling and work-outside-the home instead of
sah?Or is it just me? Your feedback is graciously considered. Thank you,
HiTekMomChristian (10yrs) Chloe (15mos)
---------------------------------
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4. She said she couldn't have 4 because they would drive her batty and that
her 2 make her nuts. I guess people are just very cautious and unsure about
anything they haven't researched, and won't research anything they find
intimidating or uninteresting to them. People like things to be easy and
comfortable. So do I.
The hardest thing I ever did was to look at myself honestly and change the
way I live. How many times did I speak out to the universe to help me see
how to be a different mommy ( i knew i wasn't following my instincts), how
many candles did I burn? I don't know. All I know is all of a sudden I
started looking things up, reading, researching, and found unschooling.com,
again. I had run across it a couple years ago but thought it was too
radical, couldn't be done by me. lol.. I just had some more searching to
do.
Anyway, to get back on your question, it's not just you. I haven't had any
really cold shoulders, probably because I'm not as sociable as people say I
should" be... whatever that means.
tammy t.
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, May 11, 2003 08:46:38
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Feeling alienated from non-homeschool moms
When engaged with conversations, with other moms, I'm usually the last to
say I homeschool. Not because I'm embarrassed or anything, it's just I get
this, "to each his own" remarks from moms who have chosen to place their
children in public school.I usually try to break the ice by say,
Homeschooling isn't for everyone." But somehow I still get this
cold-shoulder attitude from some moms - - as if they are threaten by My
choice.Deeply, I feel that they feel guilty of the choice they made to go to
work and place their children in public school. I usually try to change to
subject, but that "air" is somewhat still there.These are woman in my
subdivision, I want to get to know them, but the really guilty ones avoid me
I'm okay with that. Does anyone else get this feeling from moms who choose
public schooling vs homeschooling and work-outside-the home instead of
sah?Or is it just me? Your feedback is graciously considered. Thank you,
HiTekMomChristian (10yrs) Chloe (15mos)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles.
No Late Fees & Free Shipping.
Try Netflix for FREE!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/YoVfrB/XP.FAA/uetFAA/0xXolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny E.
I have noticed that usually the worst of it comes not from working mothers who send their kids to school, but SAHM who send them. I have heard more time times than I can count "My house would never be clean if my kids were there all day! How do you keep your house clean?" :::rolling eyes::: And the ever so famous and sickening..."I couldn't stand be around my kids all day." My husband loves to hear that one. He never misses a chance to say "Well...we still like our kids."
Jen :o)
Mom to Beck (7) and Dane (4)
Jen :o)
Mom to Beck (7) and Dane (4)
----- Original Message -----
From: "HiTekMom" <hitekmom@...>
> When engaged with conversations, with other moms, I'm usually the last to say I homeschool. Not because I'm embarrassed or anything, it's just I get this, "to each his own" remarks from moms who have chosen to place their children in public school.
Tia Leschke
> At least that is what I am working on in telling people that II have a friend who teaches public kindergarten. His grown kids were
> unschool. It is hard to explain why I am unschooling without saying
> what is wrong with schooling at home. Same with homeschooling in
> general. It is hard to explain why we homeschool without saying what
> is wrong with the public/private educational system that they are
> involved in.
homeschooled in a very relaxed style. When he does any kind of talk that
isn't to committed homeschoolers, he talks about going into a shoestore and
looking for shoes that will actually fit your children. He says they went
into the world of schools, etc., and none of them fit his oldest (who was
reading college chemistry texts in grade one). When they finally gave up on
schools and kept him home, he blossomed. They had actually intended to send
the younger two to school until they saw how well homeschooling fit their
family.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
HiTekMom
First, I'd like to thank everyone for their honest and heart-felt feedback on this subject. It is warming to know that not only can we share some common experiences, we can also apply some of it to our lives. HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY TO ALL. BTW - I'm able to chat on-line today, because dh and son is taking care of baby-girl Chloe (okay! I do have to come to the rescue now and again.) Monica
The Rascento Family
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moonstarshooter
> I have a friend who teaches public kindergarten. His grown kidswere
> homeschooled in a very relaxed style. When he does any kind oftalk that
> isn't to committed homeschoolers, he talks about going into ashoestore and
> looking for shoes that will actually fit your children. He saysthey went
> into the world of schools, etc., and none of them fit his oldest(who was
> reading college chemistry texts in grade one). When they finallygave up on
> schools and kept him home, he blossomed. They had actuallyintended to send
> the younger two to school until they saw how well homeschooling fittheir
> family.Does he truly feel this way? That homeschooling will only fit some
> Tia
children and not others? Or is he simply working not to offend?
I guess I feel so strongly that unschooling is truly the best fit for
ALL children, but in the meantime I recognize that not all parents
can comprehend it, much less live it, because it is so radically
different than the way most of us were raised.
But to say what he says, to me, would be like saying that
homeschooling (or more appropriately unschooling) is the nice comfy
slipper that fits my child, but that stiletto strappy uncomfortable
one is great for your child if that is what "fits" your family. I
could never truly believe it, so I just wouldn't be able to say it,
ya know?
Tory
jmcseals SEALS
<<I guess I feel so strongly that unschooling is truly the best fit for
ALL children, but in the meantime I recognize that not all parents
can comprehend it, much less live it, because it is so radically
different than the way most of us were raised.>>
I'm having a big conflict with this myself. While I'm still finding my way,
I fervently believe in unschooling. I find it quite difficult to deal with
my aunt and my best friend, particularly, whose children are in ps. It
causes some seriously stressful conversations. I have a hard time
expressing and discussing my beliefs and the reasoning behind them without
sounding like I am attacking them, or at the very least frowning upon the
choices they have made. No matter how I put it, they take offense. I've
noticed the distance it has placed between us.
It seems very similar to the spanking thread a few weeks, or so, ago. Even
if you have been a spanker all your life, when the enlightenment comes, it
is strong and persistant. It feels absolutely wrong to say, "I firmly
believe in *never* spanking but I can respect your decision to do so." I
can't! Much in the same vein as keeping quiet when I hear them talk about
punishing, sometimes harshly, for undone homework. I just want to scream!!!
When I became a mother, I lost friends without children who didn't want to
wait around on me anymore. I couldn't jump up and head out the door at last
minute notice, nor did I want to! Then I got married and lost single
friends. Friends who couldn't understand my desire to curb my daily social
life for my marriage. I now find myself separating from friends who follow
very mainstream parenting practices. These weren't overnight losses. Many
of them took years to disolve but the change in lifestyles crept in and ate
away at the friendships. I am still acquaintances with most, but those deep
friendships are gone. I'm finding that even with my own aunt and now my
best friend of 15 years. It's easy to ignore political differences or even
deep personal beliefs, take religious beliefs for example. But ignoring
someone spanking their child everyday or not allowing them to eat dinner
until homework is done is harder. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
There is a bill up for legislation here in Texas right now to make corporal
punishment a legal and acceptable form of discipline. It is tearing our
local homeschool group apart at the seams. Even though our group is
secular, a portion of the Christian movement is attacking like Roman
soldiers, sending emails asking for support of the bill, making it hot topic
discussion at gatherings and even the email lists, citing scripture in their
sig lines to avoid being removed from the group, and gutting anyone who
does't support their path of righteousness, so to speak. It is even
separating the Christians from one another. I feel like I'm my own little
island. Lost in a sea of mainstream ideaology and their vessels are eating
away my shoreline. Is it just that I'm in a very conservative state?? Or
does this happen to everyone?
Jennifer
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ALL children, but in the meantime I recognize that not all parents
can comprehend it, much less live it, because it is so radically
different than the way most of us were raised.>>
I'm having a big conflict with this myself. While I'm still finding my way,
I fervently believe in unschooling. I find it quite difficult to deal with
my aunt and my best friend, particularly, whose children are in ps. It
causes some seriously stressful conversations. I have a hard time
expressing and discussing my beliefs and the reasoning behind them without
sounding like I am attacking them, or at the very least frowning upon the
choices they have made. No matter how I put it, they take offense. I've
noticed the distance it has placed between us.
It seems very similar to the spanking thread a few weeks, or so, ago. Even
if you have been a spanker all your life, when the enlightenment comes, it
is strong and persistant. It feels absolutely wrong to say, "I firmly
believe in *never* spanking but I can respect your decision to do so." I
can't! Much in the same vein as keeping quiet when I hear them talk about
punishing, sometimes harshly, for undone homework. I just want to scream!!!
When I became a mother, I lost friends without children who didn't want to
wait around on me anymore. I couldn't jump up and head out the door at last
minute notice, nor did I want to! Then I got married and lost single
friends. Friends who couldn't understand my desire to curb my daily social
life for my marriage. I now find myself separating from friends who follow
very mainstream parenting practices. These weren't overnight losses. Many
of them took years to disolve but the change in lifestyles crept in and ate
away at the friendships. I am still acquaintances with most, but those deep
friendships are gone. I'm finding that even with my own aunt and now my
best friend of 15 years. It's easy to ignore political differences or even
deep personal beliefs, take religious beliefs for example. But ignoring
someone spanking their child everyday or not allowing them to eat dinner
until homework is done is harder. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
There is a bill up for legislation here in Texas right now to make corporal
punishment a legal and acceptable form of discipline. It is tearing our
local homeschool group apart at the seams. Even though our group is
secular, a portion of the Christian movement is attacking like Roman
soldiers, sending emails asking for support of the bill, making it hot topic
discussion at gatherings and even the email lists, citing scripture in their
sig lines to avoid being removed from the group, and gutting anyone who
does't support their path of righteousness, so to speak. It is even
separating the Christians from one another. I feel like I'm my own little
island. Lost in a sea of mainstream ideaology and their vessels are eating
away my shoreline. Is it just that I'm in a very conservative state?? Or
does this happen to everyone?
Jennifer
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Tia Leschke
> Does he truly feel this way? That homeschooling will only fit someI think over the years they came to believe that homeschooling is the best
> children and not others? Or is he simply working not to offend?
way but that not everyone is ever going to do it. I know that he is
considered a wonderful teacher by people I know whose kids have had him. He
tries to do the very best he can for kids, even though he knows it isn't
enough (or enough of the right stuff). But this discussion was about what
to tell people who don't homeschool so as not to put them off. Talking
about how it's working best for his family is a good way to do that. It's
quite different from someone coming on here and saying that they do what's
right for their family and that includes curriculum and spanking. <g>
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Tim and Maureen
Jennifer,
I can really relate to what you are experiencing. I have relatives that parent and school in very different ways and they are not ways I can smile and say its okay to.I have ended up having limited visits with these people and we now don't have those discussions. The parenting differences are the hardest for me to "ignore" for the sake of family relations. I accept their choices but I sure don't like them or think they are okay for the children involved.
We are experiencing something similar around competition right now. My son has joined soccer as it is a passion with him for the last three years. He has low thyroid which is now being treated and for the first time he has energy to last an entire game on the field and still be able to run some. I explained to his coach that K might need breaks until his muscles catch up to his new energy. Later in the game he made some remark to him on the field about how much he was resting out there.The parents sitting around tittered. It was made in such a way that my husband was not to sure it was a dig or not The whole competition and sports mentality is in conflict with our parenting, learning, and lifestyle beliefs and our son still wants to play but we despise the field energy etc..
Makes it tough to be supportive and also to find support in our community.
Yikes! I feel like such a radical.
Maureen
I can really relate to what you are experiencing. I have relatives that parent and school in very different ways and they are not ways I can smile and say its okay to.I have ended up having limited visits with these people and we now don't have those discussions. The parenting differences are the hardest for me to "ignore" for the sake of family relations. I accept their choices but I sure don't like them or think they are okay for the children involved.
We are experiencing something similar around competition right now. My son has joined soccer as it is a passion with him for the last three years. He has low thyroid which is now being treated and for the first time he has energy to last an entire game on the field and still be able to run some. I explained to his coach that K might need breaks until his muscles catch up to his new energy. Later in the game he made some remark to him on the field about how much he was resting out there.The parents sitting around tittered. It was made in such a way that my husband was not to sure it was a dig or not The whole competition and sports mentality is in conflict with our parenting, learning, and lifestyle beliefs and our son still wants to play but we despise the field energy etc..
Makes it tough to be supportive and also to find support in our community.
Yikes! I feel like such a radical.
Maureen
----- Original Message -----
From: jmcseals SEALS
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Feeling alienated from non-homeschool moms
<<I guess I feel so strongly that unschooling is truly the best fit for
ALL children, but in the meantime I recognize that not all parents
can comprehend it, much less live it, because it is so radically
different than the way most of us were raised.>>
I'm having a big conflict with this myself. While I'm still finding my way,
I fervently believe in unschooling. I find it quite difficult to deal with
my aunt and my best friend, particularly, whose children are in ps. It
causes some seriously stressful conversations. I have a hard time
expressing and discussing my beliefs and the reasoning behind them without
sounding like I am attacking them, or at the very least frowning upon the
choices they have made. No matter how I put it, they take offense. I've
noticed the distance it has placed between us.
It seems very similar to the spanking thread a few weeks, or so, ago. Even
if you have been a spanker all your life, when the enlightenment comes, it
is strong and persistant. It feels absolutely wrong to say, "I firmly
believe in *never* spanking but I can respect your decision to do so." I
can't! Much in the same vein as keeping quiet when I hear them talk about
punishing, sometimes harshly, for undone homework. I just want to scream!!!
When I became a mother, I lost friends without children who didn't want to
wait around on me anymore. I couldn't jump up and head out the door at last
minute notice, nor did I want to! Then I got married and lost single
friends. Friends who couldn't understand my desire to curb my daily social
life for my marriage. I now find myself separating from friends who follow
very mainstream parenting practices. These weren't overnight losses. Many
of them took years to disolve but the change in lifestyles crept in and ate
away at the friendships. I am still acquaintances with most, but those deep
friendships are gone. I'm finding that even with my own aunt and now my
best friend of 15 years. It's easy to ignore political differences or even
deep personal beliefs, take religious beliefs for example. But ignoring
someone spanking their child everyday or not allowing them to eat dinner
until homework is done is harder. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
There is a bill up for legislation here in Texas right now to make corporal
punishment a legal and acceptable form of discipline. It is tearing our
local homeschool group apart at the seams. Even though our group is
secular, a portion of the Christian movement is attacking like Roman
soldiers, sending emails asking for support of the bill, making it hot topic
discussion at gatherings and even the email lists, citing scripture in their
sig lines to avoid being removed from the group, and gutting anyone who
does't support their path of righteousness, so to speak. It is even
separating the Christians from one another. I feel like I'm my own little
island. Lost in a sea of mainstream ideaology and their vessels are eating
away my shoreline. Is it just that I'm in a very conservative state?? Or
does this happen to everyone?
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Olga
Jennifer,
I understand how you feel. I feel like if I talk about my choice,
then maybe others will feel like I am *pushing* them. But it is a
double edged sword because the reality is that we are keeping our
children at home and they are not. Anytime we explain why, they must
confront their own decisions and yet *I* feel obligated to defend my
own or at least express them. So it always leaves these
uncomfortable pauses. Of course, I think those that respect the
choice because they KNOW they would never do it are more comfortable
than those who feel maybe they should be looking into it.
The further we move from the mainstream, the more difficult it is to
watch those around you who seem to be walking around blindfolded.
The harder it is to have friends you just do not respect in some
cases. So quality versus quantity in my case, and I feel the same
for my children. IT is not about looking down on others, but more
about feeling they are not being honest with themselves and are
unwilling to take a deeper look at issues. How easy is it to respect
someone who will not think out of the box. My best friend from high
school was suprised when I did not give my son all the required
vaccinations, she said she "didn't know you could do that". All I
could think was, "you never asked." So certainly the more our
choices take us away from the mainstream, the more our choices for
really great friendships narrow. Of course, this is just my
experience and I am sure there are others who feel differently.
Also, as my dh always says, you just have less patience for bullsh*t
the older you get! Things you ackwardly smiled at or ignored, you
challenge now.
Olga :)
PS: when I say we, I don't mean everyone!! LOL
--- In [email protected], "jmcseals SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
I understand how you feel. I feel like if I talk about my choice,
then maybe others will feel like I am *pushing* them. But it is a
double edged sword because the reality is that we are keeping our
children at home and they are not. Anytime we explain why, they must
confront their own decisions and yet *I* feel obligated to defend my
own or at least express them. So it always leaves these
uncomfortable pauses. Of course, I think those that respect the
choice because they KNOW they would never do it are more comfortable
than those who feel maybe they should be looking into it.
The further we move from the mainstream, the more difficult it is to
watch those around you who seem to be walking around blindfolded.
The harder it is to have friends you just do not respect in some
cases. So quality versus quantity in my case, and I feel the same
for my children. IT is not about looking down on others, but more
about feeling they are not being honest with themselves and are
unwilling to take a deeper look at issues. How easy is it to respect
someone who will not think out of the box. My best friend from high
school was suprised when I did not give my son all the required
vaccinations, she said she "didn't know you could do that". All I
could think was, "you never asked." So certainly the more our
choices take us away from the mainstream, the more our choices for
really great friendships narrow. Of course, this is just my
experience and I am sure there are others who feel differently.
Also, as my dh always says, you just have less patience for bullsh*t
the older you get! Things you ackwardly smiled at or ignored, you
challenge now.
Olga :)
PS: when I say we, I don't mean everyone!! LOL
--- In [email protected], "jmcseals SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
> <<I guess I feel so strongly that unschooling is truly the best fitfor
> ALL children, but in the meantime I recognize that not all parentsfinding my way,
> can comprehend it, much less live it, because it is so radically
> different than the way most of us were raised.>>
>
> I'm having a big conflict with this myself. While I'm still
> I fervently believe in unschooling. I find it quite difficult todeal with
> my aunt and my best friend, particularly, whose children are inps. It
> causes some seriously stressful conversations. I have a hard timewithout
> expressing and discussing my beliefs and the reasoning behind them
> sounding like I am attacking them, or at the very least frowningupon the
> choices they have made. No matter how I put it, they takeoffense. I've
> noticed the distance it has placed between us.ago. Even
>
> It seems very similar to the spanking thread a few weeks, or so,
> if you have been a spanker all your life, when the enlightenmentcomes, it
> is strong and persistant. It feels absolutely wrong to say, "Ifirmly
> believe in *never* spanking but I can respect your decision to doso." I
> can't! Much in the same vein as keeping quiet when I hear themtalk about
> punishing, sometimes harshly, for undone homework. I just want toscream!!!
>want to
> When I became a mother, I lost friends without children who didn't
> wait around on me anymore. I couldn't jump up and head out thedoor at last
> minute notice, nor did I want to! Then I got married and lostsingle
> friends. Friends who couldn't understand my desire to curb mydaily social
> life for my marriage. I now find myself separating from friendswho follow
> very mainstream parenting practices. These weren't overnightlosses. Many
> of them took years to disolve but the change in lifestyles crept inand ate
> away at the friendships. I am still acquaintances with most, butthose deep
> friendships are gone. I'm finding that even with my own aunt andnow my
> best friend of 15 years. It's easy to ignore political differencesor even
> deep personal beliefs, take religious beliefs for example. Butignoring
> someone spanking their child everyday or not allowing them to eatdinner
> until homework is done is harder. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.corporal
>
> There is a bill up for legislation here in Texas right now to make
> punishment a legal and acceptable form of discipline. It istearing our
> local homeschool group apart at the seams. Even though our groupis
> secular, a portion of the Christian movement is attacking likeRoman
> soldiers, sending emails asking for support of the bill, making ithot topic
> discussion at gatherings and even the email lists, citing scripturein their
> sig lines to avoid being removed from the group, and gutting anyonewho
> does't support their path of righteousness, so to speak. It iseven
> separating the Christians from one another. I feel like I'm my ownlittle
> island. Lost in a sea of mainstream ideaology and their vesselsare eating
> away my shoreline. Is it just that I'm in a very conservativestate?? Or
> does this happen to everyone?
>
> Jennifer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
moonstarshooter
>I feel like I'm my own littleare eating
> island. Lost in a sea of mainstream ideaology and their vessels
> away my shoreline. Is it just that I'm in a very conservativestate?? Or
> does this happen to everyone?Actually I somewhat envy that you have a secular support group. The
>
> Jennifer
three support groups in my area are very fundamental, very assuming
groups. You aren't asked, "Do you go to church?" you are
asked, "What church do you go to?" They are truly taken aback when I
say I don't go to church. Luckily, they usually are so speechless
that I don't get questioned further. So it is just assumed that
EVERYONE will agree with any conservative right legislation that
might be up for discussion.
So I am really considering not joining any of the groups next year
(for many reasons, but largely because they are a group of people so
different in mentality.) I felt like I had to hide the fact that we
celebrate Halloween for my daughter's sake because you are just right
there next to satan himself if you dress your kids up in a costume
and let them go door to door getting candy.
Well, I am swerving off topic here, but I can definitely relate. But
as so many have accurately pointed out before, I am SO relieved to
have this group to read about and learn from.
Tory
jmcseals SEALS
<<Of course, I think those that respect the
choice because they KNOW they would never do it are more comfortable
than those who feel maybe they should be looking into it.>>
Exactly. This is what's going on with my bg and I. As time goes by and she
sees the effects of unschooling on my children...and myself!...she talks
more and more about homeschooling and learning more about unschooling. She
grills and drills me, which I find wonderful, but somehow, it always comes
back to how much she LOVES having the kids in school so she has her own
time. The big thing for her right now is her youngest will start full time
preK and the middle child will start Kindy next year. She can't wait!
Makes me want to lose my lunch every time she says that. Her kids are
completely out of control. In the past 6 months or so, every time I talk to
her she is laying on the couch, not knowing what the kids are doing. When
we are on the phone, she spends nearly the entire time whining at her kids.
Begging them to stay out of this, quit doing that. Screaming their names
over and over and over, yet never once getting up to handle the situation.
I fluctuate between wanting desperately to help her and feeling guilty
because I am truly not getting much out of the friendship anymore. Sure,
there are the moments when we are talking about things that don't involve
our children and things are ok and light, but together, we have 10, so
that's a tough subject to delete from our conversations, kwim? I'm
frustrated and tired of listening to her *want* to homeschool, *want* to
stop screaming at them all the time, *want* to quit being so lazy, all the
while she does nothing to change where she is and tells me how much she is
dreading summer vacation because by day two she will be sick of her kids.
Ugh! HOW does that make any sense whatsoever?
Grrrrr! I'm feeling like the loo of the universe this week, can you tell?
Thanks, once again, for letting me blow off some steam.
::::::pshooooooooooo:::::::
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
choice because they KNOW they would never do it are more comfortable
than those who feel maybe they should be looking into it.>>
Exactly. This is what's going on with my bg and I. As time goes by and she
sees the effects of unschooling on my children...and myself!...she talks
more and more about homeschooling and learning more about unschooling. She
grills and drills me, which I find wonderful, but somehow, it always comes
back to how much she LOVES having the kids in school so she has her own
time. The big thing for her right now is her youngest will start full time
preK and the middle child will start Kindy next year. She can't wait!
Makes me want to lose my lunch every time she says that. Her kids are
completely out of control. In the past 6 months or so, every time I talk to
her she is laying on the couch, not knowing what the kids are doing. When
we are on the phone, she spends nearly the entire time whining at her kids.
Begging them to stay out of this, quit doing that. Screaming their names
over and over and over, yet never once getting up to handle the situation.
I fluctuate between wanting desperately to help her and feeling guilty
because I am truly not getting much out of the friendship anymore. Sure,
there are the moments when we are talking about things that don't involve
our children and things are ok and light, but together, we have 10, so
that's a tough subject to delete from our conversations, kwim? I'm
frustrated and tired of listening to her *want* to homeschool, *want* to
stop screaming at them all the time, *want* to quit being so lazy, all the
while she does nothing to change where she is and tells me how much she is
dreading summer vacation because by day two she will be sick of her kids.
Ugh! HOW does that make any sense whatsoever?
Grrrrr! I'm feeling like the loo of the universe this week, can you tell?
Thanks, once again, for letting me blow off some steam.
::::::pshooooooooooo:::::::
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**I'm having a big conflict with this myself. While I'm still finding
my way,
I fervently believe in unschooling. I find it quite difficult to deal
with
my aunt and my best friend, particularly, whose children are in ps. It
causes some seriously stressful conversations.**
Hi, Jennifer --
There may in fact be no nice way to say "school is a big, failed
brainwashing experiment based on some very faulty science about how
people learn".
It just sounds like a big, wet slap in the face no matter how softly you
say it. <g>
Someone more tactful than me should take a swing at this.
Betsy
my way,
I fervently believe in unschooling. I find it quite difficult to deal
with
my aunt and my best friend, particularly, whose children are in ps. It
causes some seriously stressful conversations.**
Hi, Jennifer --
There may in fact be no nice way to say "school is a big, failed
brainwashing experiment based on some very faulty science about how
people learn".
It just sounds like a big, wet slap in the face no matter how softly you
say it. <g>
Someone more tactful than me should take a swing at this.
Betsy
[email protected]
I've always felt alienated from moms. They don't enjoy their kids, and always complain about them. I tutor and counsel kids, and most kids would be OK if it wasn't for school and their parents. The kids are usually fine; it's the rest of the world that's messed. It's very sad that it's taken out on the kids.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/05/2003 08:27:23 Pacific Daylight Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
husband live out near us, and they have one daughter close in age tomy son,
who is seven. B has been my dear friend for 10 years, and we had our babies
so close together and attended league together, discuss parenting all the
time, etc. The one thing she can't do is home/unschool. they have a big new
house to pay for, and can't stay home with dd. I can see it hurts B very much
to hear and see the different experience of life that Tommy is having from
that of her daughter. Her child struggles socially(Who wouldn't in public
school) and she sees that tommy does not have those same struggles. I feel as
if the one subject that we can't discuss is school, and god forbid I should
bring it up around her husband. He would completely freak out. Why do I have
to dance around a subject that is so much a part of what I do and who I am,
when I still have to listen to school stuff from them?
I guess I don''t have to , I choose to. I still like this woman and hang to
what is left of our friendship. It does seem as if I have to apologise for my
choices with people. How timely of this subject ot come up on this list. Our
social group is so small because of our choices for our children, and that is
hard sometimes.My husband doesnt' care as his is not needy of much social
time, but I am.
At this point in time, I feel exceptionally alienated from non-homeschool
moms!!
Nancy, almost alone in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> Parents feel threatenedThis has been my experience quite a lot lately. A very good friend and her
> by that.
>
husband live out near us, and they have one daughter close in age tomy son,
who is seven. B has been my dear friend for 10 years, and we had our babies
so close together and attended league together, discuss parenting all the
time, etc. The one thing she can't do is home/unschool. they have a big new
house to pay for, and can't stay home with dd. I can see it hurts B very much
to hear and see the different experience of life that Tommy is having from
that of her daughter. Her child struggles socially(Who wouldn't in public
school) and she sees that tommy does not have those same struggles. I feel as
if the one subject that we can't discuss is school, and god forbid I should
bring it up around her husband. He would completely freak out. Why do I have
to dance around a subject that is so much a part of what I do and who I am,
when I still have to listen to school stuff from them?
I guess I don''t have to , I choose to. I still like this woman and hang to
what is left of our friendship. It does seem as if I have to apologise for my
choices with people. How timely of this subject ot come up on this list. Our
social group is so small because of our choices for our children, and that is
hard sometimes.My husband doesnt' care as his is not needy of much social
time, but I am.
At this point in time, I feel exceptionally alienated from non-homeschool
moms!!
Nancy, almost alone in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/11/2003 10:20:24 PM Central Daylight Time,
britcontoo@... writes:
involved in school activities and is president of the PTA. She is only
slightly concerned with their learning but wants them to be "popular" and
involved in every sport and after-school activity there is.
We have come to an uncomfortable truce about discussing our
schooling/unschooling choices. Sort of like, "I won't bash yours if you don't
bash mine." What seems unfair to me is the fact that I can't discuss any
homeschool concerns with her because she will take it as proof that
homeschooling doesn't work and suggest that they go to school, while she
complains about problems with teachers, report cards, standardized testing,
etc....and I bite my tongue.
Amy Kagey
Email me for a list
of used homeschooling books!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
britcontoo@... writes:
> I find it quite difficult toI have a best friend of 24 years whose kids attend ps. She is heavily
> deal with
> >my aunt and my best friend, particularly, whose children are in
> ps. It
> >causes some seriously stressful conversations. I have a hard time
> >expressing and discussing my beliefs and the reasoning behind them
> without
> >sounding like I am attacking them, or at the very least frowning
> upon the
> >choices they have made.
involved in school activities and is president of the PTA. She is only
slightly concerned with their learning but wants them to be "popular" and
involved in every sport and after-school activity there is.
We have come to an uncomfortable truce about discussing our
schooling/unschooling choices. Sort of like, "I won't bash yours if you don't
bash mine." What seems unfair to me is the fact that I can't discuss any
homeschool concerns with her because she will take it as proof that
homeschooling doesn't work and suggest that they go to school, while she
complains about problems with teachers, report cards, standardized testing,
etc....and I bite my tongue.
Amy Kagey
Email me for a list
of used homeschooling books!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I too have been in this situation EXCEPT I was the president of the PTA and
was Unschooling family. Its actually kinda funny, the PTA president is a
homeschool Mom. HA!
I had a friend who secretly wanted to be PTA president but didn't tell me
until one day she said you know you shouldn't be the president. Oh Really?
To make a long story short we went to the next meeting and they voted her in
a CO-President, I resigned after a bit and have not talked to her since. Her
son has since been kicked out for bringing a gun to school in 5th grade and
she actually has the b*** to call me and ask about HS.
She is a Teacher now and is telling my close friend not to HS.
Laura D
In a message dated 5/12/2003 8:08:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
amycats2@... writes:
was Unschooling family. Its actually kinda funny, the PTA president is a
homeschool Mom. HA!
I had a friend who secretly wanted to be PTA president but didn't tell me
until one day she said you know you shouldn't be the president. Oh Really?
To make a long story short we went to the next meeting and they voted her in
a CO-President, I resigned after a bit and have not talked to her since. Her
son has since been kicked out for bringing a gun to school in 5th grade and
she actually has the b*** to call me and ask about HS.
She is a Teacher now and is telling my close friend not to HS.
Laura D
In a message dated 5/12/2003 8:08:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
amycats2@... writes:
> I have a best friend of 24 years whose kids attend ps. She is heavily[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> involved in school activities and is president of the PTA. She is only
> slightly concerned with their learning but wants them to be "popular" and
> involved in every sport and after-school activity there is.
> We have come to an uncomfortable truce about discussing our
> schooling/unschooling choices. Sort of like, "I won't bash yours if you
> don't
> bash mine." What seems unfair to me is the fact that I can't discuss any
> homeschool concerns with her because she will take it as proof that
> homeschooling doesn't work and suggest that they go to school, while she
> complains about problems with teachers, report cards, standardized testing,
>
> etc....and I bite my tongue.
>
> Amy Kagey
> Email me for a list
> of used homeschooling books!
Robin Clevenger
From: jmcseals SEALS
that you're in a very conservative state. I count myself very lucky to be
homeschooling among a huge group of similar-minded moms. While not all my
homeschool mom friends are "unschoolers" to the full extent of the word, the
most conservative among them are fairly relaxed occasionally-use-curriculum
type. I absolutely adore them and look forward to the time we spend
together. They are my friends in every sense of the word, and I enjoy their
company at homeschooling occasions and also doing things on our own.
Yesterday I went and ran a Mother's Day Half Marathon with one of the other
homeschooling moms, it was great to have such good company!
Then again, I guess it's not really luck that I'm here. We gave up
extremely lucrative job/business to come live here and there have been
months where we barely scrape by. It is definitely worth it to us to have
the quality of life over the ability to buy material things that we had
before (though I do miss having enough money to go on vacations right now, I
would *so* love to come to the conference in SC!)
One thing I've noted that is interesting (this is veering off on a tangent,
but oh well here goes) is when people post about their unschooling days,
almost all of the posts I've read involved going somewhere and buying
something - Target, WalMart, whatever. Buying video games or clothes or toys
or books or going out for food or whatever. That's one thing we just don't
do very much of. I can't remember the last time I was in a Target or
Walmart - maybe 6 months ago? I don't buy books in Borders or Barnes and
Noble anymore, I get them at the library or borrow them from friends. Our
clothes are hand-me-downs or thrift stores, and going out to eat (even fast
food) happens less than once a month. For us, at least, such is the price of
living here where we have a great support group of like-minded
homeschoolers, lots of really, really cool kids for our kids to hang out
with, and plenty of good adult friends for us. Even setting aside
environmental goals of reducing consumerism, this trade-off has been a very
positive one.
But to get back to your original question, I do think it's natural to drift
away from people we have less and less in common with. I do still keep in
touch with my childless friends, but we don't hang out much together
anymore. I can't leave everything at the drop of a hat to go off and do
something for a weekend and they can. It changes everything. Likewise, I
have drifted away from friends who do have kids but whose parenting ideals
are much different from my own. That includes friends whose kids are going
to school. My kids feel the same way as well. My son rarely asks to play
with the neighborhood friends that he was once so close to. Once they
started in to school, *they* changed. They no longer play the same way, they
tease more, fight more, and have different attitudes towards life that
perplex him. One mom friend in particular really wants to still get our kids
together often. The boys used to be the best of friends. It's getting to the
point now where I'm going to have to tell her that my son just doesn't want
to play with hers anymore. I know she will be hurt by this. Sometimes around
the other neighborhood moms they will talk about all the problems they're
having in school and then look over at me and say something like "I bet
you're listening to this and thinking you're glad that you homeschool,
right?" I just smile and nod, they've said it all for me.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
>I feel like I'm my own littleeating
> island. Lost in a sea of mainstream ideaology and their vessels are
> away my shoreline. Is it just that I'm in a very conservative state??Or
> does this happen to everyone?No, I don't think it happens to everyone to that extent. Yes, a lot of it is
that you're in a very conservative state. I count myself very lucky to be
homeschooling among a huge group of similar-minded moms. While not all my
homeschool mom friends are "unschoolers" to the full extent of the word, the
most conservative among them are fairly relaxed occasionally-use-curriculum
type. I absolutely adore them and look forward to the time we spend
together. They are my friends in every sense of the word, and I enjoy their
company at homeschooling occasions and also doing things on our own.
Yesterday I went and ran a Mother's Day Half Marathon with one of the other
homeschooling moms, it was great to have such good company!
Then again, I guess it's not really luck that I'm here. We gave up
extremely lucrative job/business to come live here and there have been
months where we barely scrape by. It is definitely worth it to us to have
the quality of life over the ability to buy material things that we had
before (though I do miss having enough money to go on vacations right now, I
would *so* love to come to the conference in SC!)
One thing I've noted that is interesting (this is veering off on a tangent,
but oh well here goes) is when people post about their unschooling days,
almost all of the posts I've read involved going somewhere and buying
something - Target, WalMart, whatever. Buying video games or clothes or toys
or books or going out for food or whatever. That's one thing we just don't
do very much of. I can't remember the last time I was in a Target or
Walmart - maybe 6 months ago? I don't buy books in Borders or Barnes and
Noble anymore, I get them at the library or borrow them from friends. Our
clothes are hand-me-downs or thrift stores, and going out to eat (even fast
food) happens less than once a month. For us, at least, such is the price of
living here where we have a great support group of like-minded
homeschoolers, lots of really, really cool kids for our kids to hang out
with, and plenty of good adult friends for us. Even setting aside
environmental goals of reducing consumerism, this trade-off has been a very
positive one.
But to get back to your original question, I do think it's natural to drift
away from people we have less and less in common with. I do still keep in
touch with my childless friends, but we don't hang out much together
anymore. I can't leave everything at the drop of a hat to go off and do
something for a weekend and they can. It changes everything. Likewise, I
have drifted away from friends who do have kids but whose parenting ideals
are much different from my own. That includes friends whose kids are going
to school. My kids feel the same way as well. My son rarely asks to play
with the neighborhood friends that he was once so close to. Once they
started in to school, *they* changed. They no longer play the same way, they
tease more, fight more, and have different attitudes towards life that
perplex him. One mom friend in particular really wants to still get our kids
together often. The boys used to be the best of friends. It's getting to the
point now where I'm going to have to tell her that my son just doesn't want
to play with hers anymore. I know she will be hurt by this. Sometimes around
the other neighborhood moms they will talk about all the problems they're
having in school and then look over at me and say something like "I bet
you're listening to this and thinking you're glad that you homeschool,
right?" I just smile and nod, they've said it all for me.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
Heidi
Jennifer, do you ever say something directly to her about it? Mind
you, I'm not too good at being direct, myself, but maybe the thing to
do is say "well, what are you going to do about it? You keep saying
you're gonna do this or that...well, do it. Start doing it today..."
etc. It's a crazy making situation, having a friend dump on you.
complain, rant, whatever, and never do anything to get herself out of
it. say "Do you call here for my advice, or just for a place to
unload. Let me know. If it's for advice, I'll give it. If it's just
to unload, I'll listen, but don't expect me to offer anymore input if
you're not going to do anything about it." or some such. she sounds
like a hum-dinger!
Just thinking out loud, since I've known people like that too. And
wishing I'd been able to be more direct.
HeidiC
you, I'm not too good at being direct, myself, but maybe the thing to
do is say "well, what are you going to do about it? You keep saying
you're gonna do this or that...well, do it. Start doing it today..."
etc. It's a crazy making situation, having a friend dump on you.
complain, rant, whatever, and never do anything to get herself out of
it. say "Do you call here for my advice, or just for a place to
unload. Let me know. If it's for advice, I'll give it. If it's just
to unload, I'll listen, but don't expect me to offer anymore input if
you're not going to do anything about it." or some such. she sounds
like a hum-dinger!
Just thinking out loud, since I've known people like that too. And
wishing I'd been able to be more direct.
HeidiC
> Exactly. This is what's going on with my bg and I. As time goesby and she
> sees the effects of unschooling on my children...and myself!...shetalks
> more and more about homeschooling and learning more aboutunschooling. She
> grills and drills me, which I find wonderful, but somehow, italways comes
> back to how much she LOVES having the kids in school so she has herown
> time.
Heidi
I recently had an opportunity with my sister, matter of fact. She has
been opposed to us homeschooling until quite recently. Still might
be, but she doesn't bring it up anymore. Anyway, she asked what will
we do when our kids need to take chemistry? L and I said "If they
need chemistry or are interested in it, Idaho has laws that allow us
to dual-enroll, so they could take a chemistry class at the high
school. But, if they're not going into a field that demands
chemistry, why should they study it?" And gave the example of my best
friend's son, who wants to go into pharmacology, who DID need
chemistry, and DID take it when the time came. She totally
understood, when I put it that way. Of course, she is an eyewitness
to how cool my kids are! :D after seven years of homeschooling! L
HeidiC
--- In [email protected], Betsy <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
been opposed to us homeschooling until quite recently. Still might
be, but she doesn't bring it up anymore. Anyway, she asked what will
we do when our kids need to take chemistry? L and I said "If they
need chemistry or are interested in it, Idaho has laws that allow us
to dual-enroll, so they could take a chemistry class at the high
school. But, if they're not going into a field that demands
chemistry, why should they study it?" And gave the example of my best
friend's son, who wants to go into pharmacology, who DID need
chemistry, and DID take it when the time came. She totally
understood, when I put it that way. Of course, she is an eyewitness
to how cool my kids are! :D after seven years of homeschooling! L
HeidiC
--- In [email protected], Betsy <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
>finding
>
> **I'm having a big conflict with this myself. While I'm still
> my way,deal
> I fervently believe in unschooling. I find it quite difficult to
> withps. It
> my aunt and my best friend, particularly, whose children are in
> causes some seriously stressful conversations.**softly you
>
>
> Hi, Jennifer --
>
> There may in fact be no nice way to say "school is a big, failed
> brainwashing experiment based on some very faulty science about how
> people learn".
>
> It just sounds like a big, wet slap in the face no matter how
> say it. <g>
>
> Someone more tactful than me should take a swing at this.
>
> Betsy
Olga
Robin,
Where do you live?
Where do you live?
> No, I don't think it happens to everyone to that extent. Yes, a lotof it is
> that you're in a very conservative state. I count myself very luckyto be
> homeschooling among a huge group of similar-minded moms. While notall my
> homeschool mom friends are "unschoolers" to the full extent of theword, the
> most conservative among them are fairly relaxed occasionally-use-curriculum
> type. I absolutely adore them and look forward to the time we spendenjoy their
> together. They are my friends in every sense of the word, and I
> company at homeschooling occasions and also doing things on our own.the other
> Yesterday I went and ran a Mother's Day Half Marathon with one of
> homeschooling moms, it was great to have such good company!been
> Then again, I guess it's not really luck that I'm here. We gave up
> extremely lucrative job/business to come live here and there have
> months where we barely scrape by. It is definitely worth it to usto have
> the quality of life over the ability to buy material things that wehad
> before (though I do miss having enough money to go on vacationsright now, I
> would *so* love to come to the conference in SC!)
> Blue Skies,
> -Robin-
Betsy
**The homeschooling group is also hard. Most aren't interested in getting
together anymore, every time a new family shows up they are turned off
by the group and it's cliqueishness (is that a word?) and they leave
us.**
I'm interested if people have ideas on how an established group can be
welcoming to new people and not fell cliquish even though there are many
established friendships and playgroups. I don't always find getting to
know people very easy. Some of them, and they don't wear handy
identifying badges, don't want to be interrogated, while others need you
to really persue them to feel welcome. I'm happy to ask people a
million questions, but can't always tell when newcomers would rather be
left alone. I don't have the interpersonal intelligence for this! Help!
Betsy
PS **Kate
in CA where our school is called Windystreet School, just like our email
address.**
Hi, Kate -- I thought we had a pretty good concentration of unschoolers
in CA. I live in a windy area in the SF East Bay. Where are you? Do
you want to rattle this list and see if you can shake out more
unschoolers near you?
together anymore, every time a new family shows up they are turned off
by the group and it's cliqueishness (is that a word?) and they leave
us.**
I'm interested if people have ideas on how an established group can be
welcoming to new people and not fell cliquish even though there are many
established friendships and playgroups. I don't always find getting to
know people very easy. Some of them, and they don't wear handy
identifying badges, don't want to be interrogated, while others need you
to really persue them to feel welcome. I'm happy to ask people a
million questions, but can't always tell when newcomers would rather be
left alone. I don't have the interpersonal intelligence for this! Help!
Betsy
PS **Kate
in CA where our school is called Windystreet School, just like our email
address.**
Hi, Kate -- I thought we had a pretty good concentration of unschoolers
in CA. I live in a windy area in the SF East Bay. Where are you? Do
you want to rattle this list and see if you can shake out more
unschoolers near you?
zenmomma2kids
>>At this point in time, I feel exceptionally alienated from non-homeschool moms!!
Nancy, almost alone in BC>>
I was just sitting here thinking about that Fred Rogers essay and the
need for solitude to process and learn.
I've been in Utah for 3 1/2 years now. I've felt very much alone and
completely different from the conservative folks I'm generally
surrounded by. I've also just gone through the most intense period of
personal growth that I have ever experienced. I firmly believe
there's a connection. I think my solitude enabled me to contemplate
and understand what I'm doing and why I do it. It's made me stronger.
And I've found several really cool, like minded friends (with and
without kids) along the way.
Life is good.
~Mary, whose dh got her the coolest "Life is Good" t-shirt for
mother's day. :o)
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/11/03 10:34:09 PM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<< There may in fact be no nice way to say "school is a big, failed
brainwashing experiment based on some very faulty science about how
people learn".
<<It just sounds like a big, wet slap in the face no matter how softly you
say it. <g>
<<Someone more tactful than me should take a swing at this. >>
I'm still thinking of Jennifer's "Loo of the Universe" as "universaloo" and
smiling.
I'm not more tactful than Betsy, but years ago when my sister would call and
tell me her panicky problems about school, I came to eventually try to be
dispassionate (keep doing dishes, hear the sounds she was making, but not
involve myself emotionally in the stury) and when she stopped to breathe I
would say "You have a choice" or "You don't have to send them back."
Just that.
If you say just that to your friend she will either decide "Yes, but I WANT
to" and realize she shouldn't tell you her problems, then, OR she can ask
more about homeschooling.
But just putting your tiny little verbal-finger up with "You don't have to"
is information enough for someone who is whining.
Sandra
<< There may in fact be no nice way to say "school is a big, failed
brainwashing experiment based on some very faulty science about how
people learn".
<<It just sounds like a big, wet slap in the face no matter how softly you
say it. <g>
<<Someone more tactful than me should take a swing at this. >>
I'm still thinking of Jennifer's "Loo of the Universe" as "universaloo" and
smiling.
I'm not more tactful than Betsy, but years ago when my sister would call and
tell me her panicky problems about school, I came to eventually try to be
dispassionate (keep doing dishes, hear the sounds she was making, but not
involve myself emotionally in the stury) and when she stopped to breathe I
would say "You have a choice" or "You don't have to send them back."
Just that.
If you say just that to your friend she will either decide "Yes, but I WANT
to" and realize she shouldn't tell you her problems, then, OR she can ask
more about homeschooling.
But just putting your tiny little verbal-finger up with "You don't have to"
is information enough for someone who is whining.
Sandra
Betsy
**The town that
I'm in is on the ocean between Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo, it's
windy here most of the time. Any one else in Lompoc?**
Hi, Kate --
Did you know that HSC, The Homeschool Association of California, has a
campout every year just north of Santa Barbara? HSC has all kinds of
homeschoolers, not just unschoolers, but you will find a lot of quite
relaxed, interesting people in the group.
Betsy
I'm in is on the ocean between Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo, it's
windy here most of the time. Any one else in Lompoc?**
Hi, Kate --
Did you know that HSC, The Homeschool Association of California, has a
campout every year just north of Santa Barbara? HSC has all kinds of
homeschoolers, not just unschoolers, but you will find a lot of quite
relaxed, interesting people in the group.
Betsy