forumtate

<<KELLY said:
"Well, if you are looking at primary sources of a historical event,
then you sort of have to sort through and figure out which version
(or middle version) makes sense."

-- then I will be putting my own biases into it. What "makes sense"
to me is more likely to be the conservative version, whereas someone
else might think the liberal version "makes sense" more to them. See
what I mean? (or insert "white person" version VS. "minority"
version or "woman's view" VS. "man's view")

<<"But in most of these cases we are talking about the "text book"
version or the "popular culture" version. In that case, go to the
primary sources. Or even secondary sources. Read a good book
written by someone who DID look at the primaries. Or better yet,
read two or three books like that. Compare what they chose to look
at when they have a discrepancy. Or where they are coming from."

-- OK, so I'm admitting I'm coming from a place of ignorance. "Text
book version" I get. But "pop culture" version? I wouldn't know
that if it hit me in the head. *G* {And me with a Bachelor's Degree
in English/ Secondary Teaching. Just goes to show you how useful
book-lernin' is! *wg*}
Anyhoo – so WHERE do you get these primary sources? Like Columbus'
journal would be primary, right? And a text about his journal
written by some historian who's read it would be secondary, yes? Are
these laying around in the library?

I've only just in the past coupla years gotten really into the non-
fiction books in there. Used to just go check out trashy novels
until I started researching education after quitting teaching for 4
years. ;)

And you all do this with every issue that comes up with your kids?
or only in the subjects (i know, schooly term) that you suspect might
be biased? or you just point out to the kids that there may be more
than one story on that and let them decide how to research it??

The lazy side of me is thinking how COMPLICATED this could all get.
You're right when you (the general "You") say that just sticking the
kids in school is the easy way out. Am I up for this??

TATE, rambling a bit, sorry…
=o)
(mom to 3.5 yo boy and 1 yo girl)

jmcseals SEALS

Tate dear :::::breath::::: It's going to be ok! <g> Your litle ones are
so little! You have lots of time to deschool, deprogram, depanic! I can't
help you with the cultural literacy thing. It pretty well goes over my head
too. Right, where DO you look for accurate information??

As far as your little ones are concerned...you have enough time to relax and
watch them learn so unschooling will just be a natural extension of that
observation and exploration. It really is that simple!

What is your baby girl doing these days? Learning how to stand, walk, talk?
Are you teaching her how to do those things? If you hear a yes in your
head or catch it bobbling to and fro, then I ask, are you using a book or
curriculum to do it? I imagine you sit by nervously as she attempts her
first steps, allowing her to tumble and get back up on her feet again. Then
the big moment comes and she ventures out on her own two wobbly feet.
Sometimes, you hold her little cherubic hand and guide her along, praising
her and loving her and others, you stand a few feet away so she can come to
you on her own. This is what unschooling feels like. Offering them the
freedom to explore, experiment, observe and absorb whilst you sit on the
sidelines, sometimes cheering, sometimes calming your butterflies, other
times offering a supportive hand. Understanding it all in the beginning can
be complicated. Allowing it to happen and watching your children blossom
and grow isn't! That's great news!

Jennifer, wishing I had found this path when my older kids were tiny little
learning beings. :(

<<The lazy side of me is thinking how COMPLICATED this could all get.
You're right when you (the general "You") say that just sticking the
kids in school is the easy way out. Am I up for this??

TATE, rambling a bit, sorry�
=o)
(mom to 3.5 yo boy and 1 yo girl)>>

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zenmomma2kids

>> And you all do this with every issue that comes up with your
kids? or only in the subjects (i know, schooly term) that you
suspect might be biased? or you just point out to the kids that
there may be more than one story on that and let them decide how to
research it?? >>

I trust that just about every piece of information I expose my kids
to is not all it was or all it will be. I tell what I know and where
I learned it. When I learn something new, I tell them that too. It's
a continuing process, this unschooling thing. The questions are
important. The answers change a lot. That's life.

Life is good.
~Mary

Kelly Lenhart

<<KELLY said:
"figure out which version
(or middle version) makes sense."

-- then I will be putting my own biases into it.

Absolutely. That's the best we can do since we weren't there. THe best
kind of historian is the one who understands this and tries to account for
it as she/he interprets the sources.

-- But "pop culture" version? I wouldn't know
that if it hit me in the head.

The Columbus discovered the Americas, the Indians were thrilled to see him,
etc. is a "pop culture" version. Think of it as being comprable to the
"bible stories for children" where all the context and sex are taken
ut. -grin-

--Anyhoo - so WHERE do you get these primary sources? Like Columbus'
journal would be primary, right? And a text about his journal
written by some historian who's read it would be secondary, yes? Are
these laying around in the library?

Well, getting your hands on the primary is sometimes tough, althought they
are sometimes reproduced and you can look at facsimilies. And yes, many
many of both are "laying about in the library." I love libraries.

---And you all do this with every issue that comes up with your kids?
or only in the subjects (i know, schooly term) that you suspect might
be biased? or you just point out to the kids that there may be more
than one story on that and let them decide how to research it??

I do it in an age appropriate way, but yeah, I'll mention it. And if they
ask a question I'm careful about what sources I lead them to. It's not the
at I won't let them see "wrong" ones, but I'll take the chance to show them
why it's wrong. BUt then, I worked in a research library for over ten
years. It's second nature to me to check sources, etc.

---The lazy side of me is thinking how COMPLICATED this could all get.
You're right when you (the general "You") say that just sticking the
kids in school is the easy way out. Am I up for this??

It really does become second nature. You do it naturally when you talk to
people, don't you? There are just some folk you take with a grain of salt.
For most American history---take a salt lick when you look at what we got in
grade school.

Kelly

Heidi

> <<"But in most of these cases we are talking about the "text book"
> version or the "popular culture" version. In that case, go to the
> primary sources. Or even secondary sources. Read a good book
> written by someone who DID look at the primaries. Or better yet,
> read two or three books like that. Compare what they chose to look
> at when they have a discrepancy. Or where they are coming from."
>
> -- OK, so I'm admitting I'm coming from a place of
ignorance. "Text
> book version" I get. But "pop culture" version? I wouldn't know
> that if it hit me in the head. *G* {And me with a Bachelor's
Degree
> in English/ Secondary Teaching. Just goes to show you how useful
> book-lernin' is! *wg*}
> Anyhoo – so WHERE do you get these primary sources? Like Columbus'
> journal would be primary, right? And a text about his journal
> written by some historian who's read it would be secondary, yes?
Are
> these laying around in the library?

Hi Tate

I have William Bradford's history of Plimoth Colony, written in 1647.
It's a reprint of a 1901 publication, and it is "excerpts" which
would evidence a bias, wouldn't it? What did the editors choose to
leave in, and what did they leave out? hmmmm. In fact, reading it
yesterday, to see what actually DID happen with the Pilgrims and the
First Thanksgiving...I did not see a mention in there about any such
feast, to my own surprise. I didn't read it super thoroughly though.
Just skimmed along looking for a mention of a feast and didn't see
anything. And the editors are conservative, so they'd be likely to
leave in a feast.

there was a bit in there about how things fell apart when they tried
a communal economy, with everyone pooling all their resources and
everyone sharing all the work evenly. Didn't work.

I wonder where one would find primary documents in their entirety.
Maybe online! ;)

heidiC

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/10/03 12:47:55 PM, momtate@... writes:

<< Like Columbus'

journal would be primary, right? And a text about his journal

written by some historian who's read it would be secondary, yes? Are

these laying around in the library? >>

Often they're online (at least excerpts).

And there are several books like "Eyewitness to History" which are
collections of first-hand reports of historical incidents. Those are good
for getting a snapshot moment without trying to read 400 pages of scholarly
documentation of anything.

Sandra