perspective for Laura B.
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/03 12:16:21 AM, LauraBourdo@... writes:
<< I would never, in a gazillion years, breathe a word of this to either of
my
children, but it's there like a cancer, inside me. I wanted a child like
that. I wanted my offspring to be a credit to me. I wanted the applause for
her accomplishments...for me! And I knew, as I sat there, with an awful
feeling of despair, that I'll never get that from either of my children now.
She's done, and her brother's at home -- never to even have a shot at that
sort of acclaim.>>
Laura, I'm writing without reading any other responses. I see you have four
others. I hope I duplicate what someone has already said.
I want to remind you of some things you already know, in way of mental and
emotional massage.
Step away from the school. How big must a giant whale seem from the
INSIDE!!! 360 degrees? No, every direction, up down, squeezing in. I can't
see a school from my house. If I stand on TOP of my house I can't see a
school. You went and climbed inside one. Even from the parking lot, a
school is really big. And you're looking back on 12 or 13 years of it, so it
seems OLD and ancient and 3/4 of your daughter's life. Breathe, turn your
back, and look how much MORE of her life will be lived away and apart from
school.
Early yesterday morning I was going through some boxes of my old stuff to
consolidate and put away deeper. Old letters from friends, college and high
school stuff. I found a 45 rpm record, still in its mailer, which Matthew
Chacon made, and sent me. He was the older brother of one of my boyfriends.
He was in the same rock'n'roll band as another boyfriend. He was the oldest
of five children of a state representative and the most prominent lawyer in
town. Matthew was the student body president. Matthew made a speech at
graduation (not valedictorian, but president-thing). Matthew was seen as
having huge potential. He became a lawyer. He married someone smart, and
pretty.
Matthew's dead. But first, he ruined one marriage, everyone was on HER side,
and he married someone else, and everyone was on HER side, and he used too
many drugs, and he got involved in unscrupulous legal practices, and none of
our other friends who became lawyers could say "Matthew Chacon" without
shaking their heads in embarrassment.
I liked him, but my sister reminds me it was because I hadn't seen him for
several years.
So Matthew made a RECORD! A song he wrote and recorded. I still have a
copy. I'd give it to one of his kids, but he didn't have any.
Was Matthew a success in life?
Not hardly.
Todd Petty was a total dweeb in school. He did model rockets in the back
field, he licked his lip and was awkward and never comfortable and had a dumb
name (Tom Petty did okay, but "Todd Petty" didn't impress us.) BUT, I never
saw poor Todd lose his temper in the face of lesser beings taunting him and
telling him he was an electronics-loving dork. I never saw him say a mean
word to anyone, nor did I ever see him cry or get emotional. He was a calm,
thoughtful, Spartan geek. When I asked, friends said he had become a military
officer (air force or navy, I forget) and was an electronics specialist, had
grown up strong and buff and ended up making over $80,000 a year before he
was 30 or so.
I was popular in school. I got lots of awards in Jr. High. I got fewer in
high school because I was blackballed by one teacher or more (but it only
took one) from honor society for smoking dope (I heard from one of the
teachers who liked me). I graduated early and graduated from college at 20.
Now, from the point of view of success-counting, I'm nothing. My kids are
still relatively little while others I went to school with have grown kids
with cool careers they can take credit for (fair or not, they do). I don't
have a job. With all my potential I never even finished a master's degree,
dropped out three times. So I'm an unemployed dropout without ANY cool job
to show, and I got fat. And I live in Albuquerque (a kind of shame all in
itself, in New Mexico <bwg>). I wear jeans and I apparently can't afford to
go to a beauty parlor to have my hair done. (I went to a class reunion year
before last, and scoped the really nice clothes and hairdos on people who
were non-descript kids in school, while I was all sparkly and
attention-getting. I went wearing a sweatshirt and jeans, and was one of the
nominations for the person most changed. Maybe I won. I don't remember.
Probably not.
And is it all over now?
No. There will be other comparisons later on. Maybe I'll be a published
author with kids who did something impressive next time there's a reunion,
and some of those who were at the top of the wheel of fortune will be
bankrupt or have suffered strokes or wrecked their nice cars.
Things aren't stable. The moment of high school graduation is a significant
moment for someone who has been promised that release for their whole
remembered lives. But in retrospect it's just a moment. The next moment is
more real.
Don't get attached to how she is now. Don't get attached to how she is on
August 3 of this year. She might sleep all day and have the flu, and watch a
movie you think is stupid. Don't get attached to how she is on her wedding
day. Don't get attached to the vision of her on the day you see her the most
happy she has ever been.
None of those moments is permanent and they are all just a passing glimpse of
who she is.
Some of those poor kids who got awards are just moving in to the phase where
they will be pressured to do more of the same, get college awards, become
professional basketball players (or whatever), coach winning teams. What?
You didn't? You failure. You wasted your potential.
Some high school success is just the future-failure switch being screwed in
place for life.
Sandra
<< I would never, in a gazillion years, breathe a word of this to either of
my
children, but it's there like a cancer, inside me. I wanted a child like
that. I wanted my offspring to be a credit to me. I wanted the applause for
her accomplishments...for me! And I knew, as I sat there, with an awful
feeling of despair, that I'll never get that from either of my children now.
She's done, and her brother's at home -- never to even have a shot at that
sort of acclaim.>>
Laura, I'm writing without reading any other responses. I see you have four
others. I hope I duplicate what someone has already said.
I want to remind you of some things you already know, in way of mental and
emotional massage.
Step away from the school. How big must a giant whale seem from the
INSIDE!!! 360 degrees? No, every direction, up down, squeezing in. I can't
see a school from my house. If I stand on TOP of my house I can't see a
school. You went and climbed inside one. Even from the parking lot, a
school is really big. And you're looking back on 12 or 13 years of it, so it
seems OLD and ancient and 3/4 of your daughter's life. Breathe, turn your
back, and look how much MORE of her life will be lived away and apart from
school.
Early yesterday morning I was going through some boxes of my old stuff to
consolidate and put away deeper. Old letters from friends, college and high
school stuff. I found a 45 rpm record, still in its mailer, which Matthew
Chacon made, and sent me. He was the older brother of one of my boyfriends.
He was in the same rock'n'roll band as another boyfriend. He was the oldest
of five children of a state representative and the most prominent lawyer in
town. Matthew was the student body president. Matthew made a speech at
graduation (not valedictorian, but president-thing). Matthew was seen as
having huge potential. He became a lawyer. He married someone smart, and
pretty.
Matthew's dead. But first, he ruined one marriage, everyone was on HER side,
and he married someone else, and everyone was on HER side, and he used too
many drugs, and he got involved in unscrupulous legal practices, and none of
our other friends who became lawyers could say "Matthew Chacon" without
shaking their heads in embarrassment.
I liked him, but my sister reminds me it was because I hadn't seen him for
several years.
So Matthew made a RECORD! A song he wrote and recorded. I still have a
copy. I'd give it to one of his kids, but he didn't have any.
Was Matthew a success in life?
Not hardly.
Todd Petty was a total dweeb in school. He did model rockets in the back
field, he licked his lip and was awkward and never comfortable and had a dumb
name (Tom Petty did okay, but "Todd Petty" didn't impress us.) BUT, I never
saw poor Todd lose his temper in the face of lesser beings taunting him and
telling him he was an electronics-loving dork. I never saw him say a mean
word to anyone, nor did I ever see him cry or get emotional. He was a calm,
thoughtful, Spartan geek. When I asked, friends said he had become a military
officer (air force or navy, I forget) and was an electronics specialist, had
grown up strong and buff and ended up making over $80,000 a year before he
was 30 or so.
I was popular in school. I got lots of awards in Jr. High. I got fewer in
high school because I was blackballed by one teacher or more (but it only
took one) from honor society for smoking dope (I heard from one of the
teachers who liked me). I graduated early and graduated from college at 20.
Now, from the point of view of success-counting, I'm nothing. My kids are
still relatively little while others I went to school with have grown kids
with cool careers they can take credit for (fair or not, they do). I don't
have a job. With all my potential I never even finished a master's degree,
dropped out three times. So I'm an unemployed dropout without ANY cool job
to show, and I got fat. And I live in Albuquerque (a kind of shame all in
itself, in New Mexico <bwg>). I wear jeans and I apparently can't afford to
go to a beauty parlor to have my hair done. (I went to a class reunion year
before last, and scoped the really nice clothes and hairdos on people who
were non-descript kids in school, while I was all sparkly and
attention-getting. I went wearing a sweatshirt and jeans, and was one of the
nominations for the person most changed. Maybe I won. I don't remember.
Probably not.
And is it all over now?
No. There will be other comparisons later on. Maybe I'll be a published
author with kids who did something impressive next time there's a reunion,
and some of those who were at the top of the wheel of fortune will be
bankrupt or have suffered strokes or wrecked their nice cars.
Things aren't stable. The moment of high school graduation is a significant
moment for someone who has been promised that release for their whole
remembered lives. But in retrospect it's just a moment. The next moment is
more real.
Don't get attached to how she is now. Don't get attached to how she is on
August 3 of this year. She might sleep all day and have the flu, and watch a
movie you think is stupid. Don't get attached to how she is on her wedding
day. Don't get attached to the vision of her on the day you see her the most
happy she has ever been.
None of those moments is permanent and they are all just a passing glimpse of
who she is.
Some of those poor kids who got awards are just moving in to the phase where
they will be pressured to do more of the same, get college awards, become
professional basketball players (or whatever), coach winning teams. What?
You didn't? You failure. You wasted your potential.
Some high school success is just the future-failure switch being screwed in
place for life.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
Great perspective post snipped.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
> Some high school success is just the future-failure switch being screwedin
> place for life.Yet another keeper quote.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 05/08/2003 11:07:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
it last night, and it overwhelmed me. I DO know that she is so much more
than whatever momentary achievements she might have gained in high school.
And you're right when you say this, too:
humbling to realize that, despite my commitment to unschooling values, I can
still get sucked into judging success based on those warped standards.
What's even more humbling is the realization that what I experienced last
night was really more about me than it was about her. I was jealous of those
parents whose kids took home all the honors.
The unschooling way of looking at things -- that it's all about being present
to your child exactly where they're at at any given moment, and not where you
imagine they *should* be -- is an amazing paradigm shift for me. Part of
what I think I experienced last night was a letting go of those expectations
for my son -- since we're committed to the unschooling path for him. And
there was some grief there, even if it isn't rational. What I hadn't
realized, though, was that there are aspects of the schooled way of looking
at life that I was still having a terribly hard time letting go of.
It was uncomfortable, but good for me, I think -- both in terms of the way I
continue to support my dd in the future and in the unschooling of my ds.
Thanks for your sharing.
Laura B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Step away from the school. How big must a giant whale seem from theYou've touched on the heart of it here, I think, Sandra. I was too close to
> INSIDE!!! 360 degrees? No, every direction, up down, squeezing in. I
> can't
> see a school from my house. If I stand on TOP of my house I can't see a
> school. You went and climbed inside one. Even from the parking lot, a
> school is really big. And you're looking back on 12 or 13 years of it, so
> it
> seems OLD and ancient and 3/4 of your daughter's life. Breathe, turn your
> back, and look how much MORE of her life will be lived away and apart from
> school.
>
it last night, and it overwhelmed me. I DO know that she is so much more
than whatever momentary achievements she might have gained in high school.
And you're right when you say this, too:
>The fact is, I don't beleive in the values imparted by that system. It's
> None of those moments is permanent and they are all just a passing glimpse
> of
> who she is.
humbling to realize that, despite my commitment to unschooling values, I can
still get sucked into judging success based on those warped standards.
What's even more humbling is the realization that what I experienced last
night was really more about me than it was about her. I was jealous of those
parents whose kids took home all the honors.
The unschooling way of looking at things -- that it's all about being present
to your child exactly where they're at at any given moment, and not where you
imagine they *should* be -- is an amazing paradigm shift for me. Part of
what I think I experienced last night was a letting go of those expectations
for my son -- since we're committed to the unschooling path for him. And
there was some grief there, even if it isn't rational. What I hadn't
realized, though, was that there are aspects of the schooled way of looking
at life that I was still having a terribly hard time letting go of.
It was uncomfortable, but good for me, I think -- both in terms of the way I
continue to support my dd in the future and in the unschooling of my ds.
Thanks for your sharing.
Laura B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Sandra,
Never think, for a moment, that you are anything if not successful. You are a hell of a woman.
I sure feel better about myself!
Thanks,
Janis
Never think, for a moment, that you are anything if not successful. You are a hell of a woman.
I sure feel better about myself!
Thanks,
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:04 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] perspective for Laura B.
In a message dated 5/8/03 12:16:21 AM, LauraBourdo@... writes:
<< I would never, in a gazillion years, breathe a word of this to either of
my
children, but it's there like a cancer, inside me. I wanted a child like
that. I wanted my offspring to be a credit to me. I wanted the applause for
her accomplishments...for me! And I knew, as I sat there, with an awful
feeling of despair, that I'll never get that from either of my children now.
She's done, and her brother's at home -- never to even have a shot at that
sort of acclaim.>>
Laura, I'm writing without reading any other responses. I see you have four
others. I hope I duplicate what someone has already said.
I want to remind you of some things you already know, in way of mental and
emotional massage.
Step away from the school. How big must a giant whale seem from the
INSIDE!!! 360 degrees? No, every direction, up down, squeezing in. I can't
see a school from my house. If I stand on TOP of my house I can't see a
school. You went and climbed inside one. Even from the parking lot, a
school is really big. And you're looking back on 12 or 13 years of it, so it
seems OLD and ancient and 3/4 of your daughter's life. Breathe, turn your
back, and look how much MORE of her life will be lived away and apart from
school.
Early yesterday morning I was going through some boxes of my old stuff to
consolidate and put away deeper. Old letters from friends, college and high
school stuff. I found a 45 rpm record, still in its mailer, which Matthew
Chacon made, and sent me. He was the older brother of one of my boyfriends.
He was in the same rock'n'roll band as another boyfriend. He was the oldest
of five children of a state representative and the most prominent lawyer in
town. Matthew was the student body president. Matthew made a speech at
graduation (not valedictorian, but president-thing). Matthew was seen as
having huge potential. He became a lawyer. He married someone smart, and
pretty.
Matthew's dead. But first, he ruined one marriage, everyone was on HER side,
and he married someone else, and everyone was on HER side, and he used too
many drugs, and he got involved in unscrupulous legal practices, and none of
our other friends who became lawyers could say "Matthew Chacon" without
shaking their heads in embarrassment.
I liked him, but my sister reminds me it was because I hadn't seen him for
several years.
So Matthew made a RECORD! A song he wrote and recorded. I still have a
copy. I'd give it to one of his kids, but he didn't have any.
Was Matthew a success in life?
Not hardly.
Todd Petty was a total dweeb in school. He did model rockets in the back
field, he licked his lip and was awkward and never comfortable and had a dumb
name (Tom Petty did okay, but "Todd Petty" didn't impress us.) BUT, I never
saw poor Todd lose his temper in the face of lesser beings taunting him and
telling him he was an electronics-loving dork. I never saw him say a mean
word to anyone, nor did I ever see him cry or get emotional. He was a calm,
thoughtful, Spartan geek. When I asked, friends said he had become a military
officer (air force or navy, I forget) and was an electronics specialist, had
grown up strong and buff and ended up making over $80,000 a year before he
was 30 or so.
I was popular in school. I got lots of awards in Jr. High. I got fewer in
high school because I was blackballed by one teacher or more (but it only
took one) from honor society for smoking dope (I heard from one of the
teachers who liked me). I graduated early and graduated from college at 20.
Now, from the point of view of success-counting, I'm nothing. My kids are
still relatively little while others I went to school with have grown kids
with cool careers they can take credit for (fair or not, they do). I don't
have a job. With all my potential I never even finished a master's degree,
dropped out three times. So I'm an unemployed dropout without ANY cool job
to show, and I got fat. And I live in Albuquerque (a kind of shame all in
itself, in New Mexico <bwg>). I wear jeans and I apparently can't afford to
go to a beauty parlor to have my hair done. (I went to a class reunion year
before last, and scoped the really nice clothes and hairdos on people who
were non-descript kids in school, while I was all sparkly and
attention-getting. I went wearing a sweatshirt and jeans, and was one of the
nominations for the person most changed. Maybe I won. I don't remember.
Probably not.
And is it all over now?
No. There will be other comparisons later on. Maybe I'll be a published
author with kids who did something impressive next time there's a reunion,
and some of those who were at the top of the wheel of fortune will be
bankrupt or have suffered strokes or wrecked their nice cars.
Things aren't stable. The moment of high school graduation is a significant
moment for someone who has been promised that release for their whole
remembered lives. But in retrospect it's just a moment. The next moment is
more real.
Don't get attached to how she is now. Don't get attached to how she is on
August 3 of this year. She might sleep all day and have the flu, and watch a
movie you think is stupid. Don't get attached to how she is on her wedding
day. Don't get attached to the vision of her on the day you see her the most
happy she has ever been.
None of those moments is permanent and they are all just a passing glimpse of
who she is.
Some of those poor kids who got awards are just moving in to the phase where
they will be pressured to do more of the same, get college awards, become
professional basketball players (or whatever), coach winning teams. What?
You didn't? You failure. You wasted your potential.
Some high school success is just the future-failure switch being screwed in
place for life.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy in MS
***** without ANY cool job to show,****
Not so... you do have a cool job, probably the coolest! Just look what your
doing for us and our kids as well as your own. The difference between you
and them is that you actually love your job. <toothy grin>
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, May 08, 2003 18:28:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] perspective for Laura B.
Sandra,
Never think, for a moment, that you are anything if not successful. You are
a hell of a woman.
I sure feel better about myself!
Thanks,
Janis
Not so... you do have a cool job, probably the coolest! Just look what your
doing for us and our kids as well as your own. The difference between you
and them is that you actually love your job. <toothy grin>
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, May 08, 2003 18:28:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] perspective for Laura B.
Sandra,
Never think, for a moment, that you are anything if not successful. You are
a hell of a woman.
I sure feel better about myself!
Thanks,
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:04 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] perspective for Laura B.
In a message dated 5/8/03 12:16:21 AM, LauraBourdo@... writes:
<< I would never, in a gazillion years, breathe a word of this to either of
my
children, but it's there like a cancer, inside me. I wanted a child like
that. I wanted my offspring to be a credit to me. I wanted the applause for
her accomplishments...for me! And I knew, as I sat there, with an awful
feeling of despair, that I'll never get that from either of my children now.
She's done, and her brother's at home -- never to even have a shot at that
sort of acclaim.>>
Laura, I'm writing without reading any other responses. I see you have four
others. I hope I duplicate what someone has already said.
I want to remind you of some things you already know, in way of mental and
emotional massage.
Step away from the school. How big must a giant whale seem from the
INSIDE!!! 360 degrees? No, every direction, up down, squeezing in. I can't
see a school from my house. If I stand on TOP of my house I can't see a
school. You went and climbed inside one. Even from the parking lot, a
school is really big. And you're looking back on 12 or 13 years of it, so it
seems OLD and ancient and 3/4 of your daughter's life. Breathe, turn your
back, and look how much MORE of her life will be lived away and apart from
school.
Early yesterday morning I was going through some boxes of my old stuff to
consolidate and put away deeper. Old letters from friends, college and high
school stuff. I found a 45 rpm record, still in its mailer, which Matthew
Chacon made, and sent me. He was the older brother of one of my boyfriends.
He was in the same rock'n'roll band as another boyfriend. He was the oldest
of five children of a state representative and the most prominent lawyer in
town. Matthew was the student body president. Matthew made a speech at
graduation (not valedictorian, but president-thing). Matthew was seen as
having huge potential. He became a lawyer. He married someone smart, and
pretty.
Matthew's dead. But first, he ruined one marriage, everyone was on HER side,
and he married someone else, and everyone was on HER side, and he used too
many drugs, and he got involved in unscrupulous legal practices, and none of
our other friends who became lawyers could say "Matthew Chacon" without
shaking their heads in embarrassment.
I liked him, but my sister reminds me it was because I hadn't seen him for
several years.
So Matthew made a RECORD! A song he wrote and recorded. I still have a
copy. I'd give it to one of his kids, but he didn't have any.
Was Matthew a success in life?
Not hardly.
Todd Petty was a total dweeb in school. He did model rockets in the back
field, he licked his lip and was awkward and never comfortable and had a
dumb
name (Tom Petty did okay, but "Todd Petty" didn't impress us.) BUT, I never
saw poor Todd lose his temper in the face of lesser beings taunting him and
telling him he was an electronics-loving dork. I never saw him say a mean
word to anyone, nor did I ever see him cry or get emotional. He was a calm,
thoughtful, Spartan geek. When I asked, friends said he had become a
military
officer (air force or navy, I forget) and was an electronics specialist, had
grown up strong and buff and ended up making over $80,000 a year before he
was 30 or so.
I was popular in school. I got lots of awards in Jr. High. I got fewer in
high school because I was blackballed by one teacher or more (but it only
took one) from honor society for smoking dope (I heard from one of the
teachers who liked me). I graduated early and graduated from college at 20.
Now, from the point of view of success-counting, I'm nothing. My kids are
still relatively little while others I went to school with have grown kids
with cool careers they can take credit for (fair or not, they do). I don't
have a job. With all my potential I never even finished a master's degree,
dropped out three times. So I'm an unemployed dropout without ANY cool job
to show, and I got fat. And I live in Albuquerque (a kind of shame all in
itself, in New Mexico <bwg>). I wear jeans and I apparently can't afford to
go to a beauty parlor to have my hair done. (I went to a class reunion year
before last, and scoped the really nice clothes and hairdos on people who
were non-descript kids in school, while I was all sparkly and
attention-getting. I went wearing a sweatshirt and jeans, and was one of the
nominations for the person most changed. Maybe I won. I don't remember.
Probably not.
And is it all over now?
No. There will be other comparisons later on. Maybe I'll be a published
author with kids who did something impressive next time there's a reunion,
and some of those who were at the top of the wheel of fortune will be
bankrupt or have suffered strokes or wrecked their nice cars.
Things aren't stable. The moment of high school graduation is a significant
moment for someone who has been promised that release for their whole
remembered lives. But in retrospect it's just a moment. The next moment is
more real.
Don't get attached to how she is now. Don't get attached to how she is on
August 3 of this year. She might sleep all day and have the flu, and watch a
movie you think is stupid. Don't get attached to how she is on her wedding
day. Don't get attached to the vision of her on the day you see her the most
happy she has ever been.
None of those moments is permanent and they are all just a passing glimpse
of
who she is.
Some of those poor kids who got awards are just moving in to the phase where
they will be pressured to do more of the same, get college awards, become
professional basketball players (or whatever), coach winning teams. What?
You didn't? You failure. You wasted your potential.
Some high school success is just the future-failure switch being screwed in
place for life.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/03 5:30:09 PM, jana@... writes:
<< Sandra,
Never think, for a moment, that you are anything if not successful. You are a
hell of a woman. >>
Janis, thank you, but think of it, really. How far will this "success" go in
the REAL world (by which I mean at a high school reunion)??
I'm well thought of by some over-protective parents whose kids can't cut it
in school.
I'm popular among some homeschoolers who can't even get it together to use a
curriculum right.
They will just shake their heads at my delusions of reality. <g>
Sandra
<< Sandra,
Never think, for a moment, that you are anything if not successful. You are a
hell of a woman. >>
Janis, thank you, but think of it, really. How far will this "success" go in
the REAL world (by which I mean at a high school reunion)??
I'm well thought of by some over-protective parents whose kids can't cut it
in school.
I'm popular among some homeschoolers who can't even get it together to use a
curriculum right.
They will just shake their heads at my delusions of reality. <g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5-8-2003 6:15:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
20 year hs reunion <BG>
diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
“I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly
losing it's understanding of being human" John Trudell
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I'm well thought of by some over-protective parents whose kids can't cut itAnd I hope this is what people think of me at my upcoming (3 years from now)
> in school.
> I'm popular among some homeschoolers who can't even get it together to use
> a
> curriculum right.
> They will just shake their heads at my delusions of reality. <g>
>
>
20 year hs reunion <BG>
diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
“I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly
losing it's understanding of being human" John Trudell
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sablehs
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
It's great being on the fringe with you guys.
I used to cringe when I was called weird {all my life - LOL} trying
to make up some defense or excuse for my reality. Forget it my
husband told me, they will never understand. As soon as we start
talking they pretty much stop listning. {unless they have some switch
that fllicks on, or some life changing experiance in their own
reality where they begin to relate} I just embrace being 'weird' now.
It's a lot easier, and like the ease of unschooling, much more
satisfying.
Tracy
>together to use a
> > I'm popular among some homeschoolers who can't even get it
> curriculum right.That goes back to those "planes" again. :-)
> They will just shake their heads at my delusions of reality. <g>
>
> Sandra
It's great being on the fringe with you guys.
I used to cringe when I was called weird {all my life - LOL} trying
to make up some defense or excuse for my reality. Forget it my
husband told me, they will never understand. As soon as we start
talking they pretty much stop listning. {unless they have some switch
that fllicks on, or some life changing experiance in their own
reality where they begin to relate} I just embrace being 'weird' now.
It's a lot easier, and like the ease of unschooling, much more
satisfying.
Tracy
Betsy
>> ***** without ANY cool job to show,****Not so... you do have a cool job, probably the coolest! Just look what your
doing for us and our kids as well as your own. The difference between you
and them is that you actually love your job. <toothy grin> <<
Great point. Too bad there's no "cool paycheck". <g>
Betsy
Tammy in MS
lol.. yeah.. hey, who knows...maybe one day???
Tammy T.
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, May 08, 2003 19:38:58
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] perspective for Laura B.
doing for us and our kids as well as your own. The difference between you
and them is that you actually love your job. <toothy grin> <<
Great point. Too bad there's no "cool paycheck". <g>
Betsy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy T.
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, May 08, 2003 19:38:58
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] perspective for Laura B.
>> ***** without ANY cool job to show,****Not so... you do have a cool job, probably the coolest! Just look what your
doing for us and our kids as well as your own. The difference between you
and them is that you actually love your job. <toothy grin> <<
Great point. Too bad there's no "cool paycheck". <g>
Betsy
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Wow,
This was an incredible response from Sandra.
I sat here and read the entire letter in tears to my husband im still not
sure why? Thing is I know im not a failure I have just herd it too many
times.
I have a little sister that this has happened to. She was Athlete, semi
popular and pumped to go to college by my Mom. Way too pumped.
Well, she graduated after being handed anything and everything Mom couldn't
wouldn't give us.
She got engaged, ended up being kicked out moved in with me. I asked her to
leave she had thousands but would not even buy her own food. She went back
home, almost died from alcohol poising, wedding never happened and boom a
year later same month she is back with me.
In a financial mess and her with some 5hour a week (lived her 2 1/2 months
before she landed a job at Victoria Sec) We told her too look for a new
place. That night 100 MPH car crash (she wasn't driving). I being sister/Mom
again sat at the hospital all night while she is in traction.
Back to my house looses her job. Leaves here to live with my Aunt in Rhode
Island and left there on a bad note. Five months later no job and lives in an
apartment her and her BF can barley afford.
Now she is getting a free family trip from his parents, a cosign on a loan
and a car and well it may not get paid....
I called her tonight and read Sandra's response she said hey that's me i said
know that's why i called, it does sound like the past two years of your life.<
sigh>
Being the Top Jock is not worth all the hype in the end.
Laura D
In a message dated 5/8/2003 12:07:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
This was an incredible response from Sandra.
I sat here and read the entire letter in tears to my husband im still not
sure why? Thing is I know im not a failure I have just herd it too many
times.
I have a little sister that this has happened to. She was Athlete, semi
popular and pumped to go to college by my Mom. Way too pumped.
Well, she graduated after being handed anything and everything Mom couldn't
wouldn't give us.
She got engaged, ended up being kicked out moved in with me. I asked her to
leave she had thousands but would not even buy her own food. She went back
home, almost died from alcohol poising, wedding never happened and boom a
year later same month she is back with me.
In a financial mess and her with some 5hour a week (lived her 2 1/2 months
before she landed a job at Victoria Sec) We told her too look for a new
place. That night 100 MPH car crash (she wasn't driving). I being sister/Mom
again sat at the hospital all night while she is in traction.
Back to my house looses her job. Leaves here to live with my Aunt in Rhode
Island and left there on a bad note. Five months later no job and lives in an
apartment her and her BF can barley afford.
Now she is getting a free family trip from his parents, a cosign on a loan
and a car and well it may not get paid....
I called her tonight and read Sandra's response she said hey that's me i said
know that's why i called, it does sound like the past two years of your life.<
sigh>
Being the Top Jock is not worth all the hype in the end.
Laura D
In a message dated 5/8/2003 12:07:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> In a message dated 5/8/03 12:16:21 AM, LauraBourdo@... writes:
>
> <<I would never, in a gazillion years, breathe a word of this to either of
> my
> children, but it's there like a cancer, inside me. I wanted a child like
> that. I wanted my offspring to be a credit to me. I wanted the applause
> for
> her accomplishments...for me! And I knew, as I sat there, with an awful
> feeling of despair, that I'll never get that from either of my children
> now.
> She's done, and her brother's at home -- never to even have a shot at that
> sort of acclaim.>>
>
> Laura, I'm writing without reading any other responses. I see you have
> four
> others. I hope I duplicate what someone has already said.
>
> I want to remind you of some things you already know, in way of mental and
> emotional massage.
>
> Step away from the school. How big must a giant whale seem from the
> INSIDE!!! 360 degrees? No, every direction, up down, squeezing in. I
> can't
> see a school from my house. If I stand on TOP of my house I can't see a
> school. You went and climbed inside one. Even from the parking lot, a
> school is really big. And you're looking back on 12 or 13 years of it, so
> it
> seems OLD and ancient and 3/4 of your daughter's life. Breathe, turn your
> back, and look how much MORE of her life will be lived away and apart from
> school.
>
> Early yesterday morning I was going through some boxes of my old stuff to
> consolidate and put away deeper. Old letters from friends, college and
> high
> school stuff. I found a 45 rpm record, still in its mailer, which Matthew
> Chacon made, and sent me. He was the older brother of one of my
> boyfriends.
> He was in the same rock'n'roll band as another boyfriend. He was the
> oldest
> of five children of a state representative and the most prominent lawyer in
>
> town. Matthew was the student body president. Matthew made a speech at
> graduation (not valedictorian, but president-thing). Matthew was seen as
> having huge potential. He became a lawyer. He married someone smart, and
>
> pretty.
>
> Matthew's dead. But first, he ruined one marriage, everyone was on HER
> side,
> and he married someone else, and everyone was on HER side, and he used too
> many drugs, and he got involved in unscrupulous legal practices, and none
> of
> our other friends who became lawyers could say "Matthew Chacon" without
> shaking their heads in embarrassment.
>
> I liked him, but my sister reminds me it was because I hadn't seen him for
> several years.
>
> So Matthew made a RECORD! A song he wrote and recorded. I still have a
> copy. I'd give it to one of his kids, but he didn't have any.
>
> Was Matthew a success in life?
>
> Not hardly.
>
> Todd Petty was a total dweeb in school. He did model rockets in the back
> field, he licked his lip and was awkward and never comfortable and had a
> dumb
> name (Tom Petty did okay, but "Todd Petty" didn't impress us.) BUT, I
> never
> saw poor Todd lose his temper in the face of lesser beings taunting him and
>
> telling him he was an electronics-loving dork. I never saw him say a mean
>
> word to anyone, nor did I ever see him cry or get emotional. He was a
> calm,
> thoughtful, Spartan geek. When I asked, friends said he had become a
> military
> officer (air force or navy, I forget) and was an electronics specialist,
> had
> grown up strong and buff and ended up making over $80,000 a year before he
> was 30 or so.
>
> I was popular in school. I got lots of awards in Jr. High. I got fewer in
>
> high school because I was blackballed by one teacher or more (but it only
> took one) from honor society for smoking dope (I heard from one of the
> teachers who liked me). I graduated early and graduated from college at
> 20.
> Now, from the point of view of success-counting, I'm nothing. My kids are
>
> still relatively little while others I went to school with have grown kids
> with cool careers they can take credit for (fair or not, they do). I don't
>
> have a job. With all my potential I never even finished a master's degree,
>
> dropped out three times. So I'm an unemployed dropout without ANY cool job
>
> to show, and I got fat. And I live in Albuquerque (a kind of shame all in
> itself, in New Mexico <bwg>). I wear jeans and I apparently can't afford
> to
> go to a beauty parlor to have my hair done. (I went to a class reunion
> year
> before last, and scoped the really nice clothes and hairdos on people who
> were non-descript kids in school, while I was all sparkly and
> attention-getting. I went wearing a sweatshirt and jeans, and was one of
> the
> nominations for the person most changed. Maybe I won. I don't remember.
> Probably not.
>
> And is it all over now?
>
> No. There will be other comparisons later on. Maybe I'll be a published
> author with kids who did something impressive next time there's a reunion,
> and some of those who were at the top of the wheel of fortune will be
> bankrupt or have suffered strokes or wrecked their nice cars.
>
> Things aren't stable. The moment of high school graduation is a
> significant
> moment for someone who has been promised that release for their whole
> remembered lives. But in retrospect it's just a moment. The next moment is
>
> more real.
>
> Don't get attached to how she is now. Don't get attached to how she is on
> August 3 of this year. She might sleep all day and have the flu, and watch
> a
> movie you think is stupid. Don't get attached to how she is on her wedding
>
> day. Don't get attached to the vision of her on the day you see her the
> most
> happy she has ever been.
>
> None of those moments is permanent and they are all just a passing glimpse
> of
> who she is.
>
> Some of those poor kids who got awards are just moving in to the phase
> where
> they will be pressured to do more of the same, get college awards, become
> professional basketball players (or whatever), coach winning teams. What?
>
> You didn't? You failure. You wasted your potential.
>
> Some high school success is just the future-failure switch being screwed in
>
> place for life.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/2003 8:15:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
come and speak to the graduating class (I was Valedictorian 20 years
previously what could I possibly say?).
I get a big intro, valedictorian, college, nursing degree, masters degree,
delivered lots of babies... It was embarrassing and done only for them to
take pride in how THEIR student turned out. I was none of those things
BECAUSE of their school.
So I stood up, asked my children to come up to the stage with me and I
introduced them and said THESE are the jewels in my crown, not some degree,
THIS is what I do, I mother these precious children. I told them nothing
else really mattered in life if I didn't get the mothering thing right.
No matter how many children I might help bring into this world, if my own are
not loved and respected then what's the point?
Being "just a mother" is a very honorable thing. Sometimes people don't
understand giving up a job that one works years at achieving to "just be a
mother."
Later while chatting, one of the other graduates was talking about her life
and all that she had become and said she really never got around to having
children and it just seemed to time consuming and of course there is always
the "getting fat" part.
I just looked at her and said "I really feel so sorry for you" and explained
to her that my children are my greatest joy and I'm so glad that I "found"
the time to have children. She went on and on and was fairly demeaning about
being "just a mom" (she was JUST a secretary who has wrecked at least three
homes by sleeping with her bosses).
I finally said to her that her life must be so very empty and again told her
how sorry I was that she didn't know the joy of being a mother and walked
away from her.
Is there anything more important than being the very best mother you can
possibly be? I think not. Children are very special gifts and deserve to be
treated like it. We are touching the future every day and I don't understand
why some people in society don't see the value in this.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I'm well thought of by some over-protective parents whose kids can't cut itAt my 20th high school reunion (from the church school) they had asked me to
> in school.
> I'm popular among some homeschoolers who can't even get it together to use
> a
> curriculum right.
> They will just shake their heads at my delusions of reality. <g>
>
> Sandra
>
come and speak to the graduating class (I was Valedictorian 20 years
previously what could I possibly say?).
I get a big intro, valedictorian, college, nursing degree, masters degree,
delivered lots of babies... It was embarrassing and done only for them to
take pride in how THEIR student turned out. I was none of those things
BECAUSE of their school.
So I stood up, asked my children to come up to the stage with me and I
introduced them and said THESE are the jewels in my crown, not some degree,
THIS is what I do, I mother these precious children. I told them nothing
else really mattered in life if I didn't get the mothering thing right.
No matter how many children I might help bring into this world, if my own are
not loved and respected then what's the point?
Being "just a mother" is a very honorable thing. Sometimes people don't
understand giving up a job that one works years at achieving to "just be a
mother."
Later while chatting, one of the other graduates was talking about her life
and all that she had become and said she really never got around to having
children and it just seemed to time consuming and of course there is always
the "getting fat" part.
I just looked at her and said "I really feel so sorry for you" and explained
to her that my children are my greatest joy and I'm so glad that I "found"
the time to have children. She went on and on and was fairly demeaning about
being "just a mom" (she was JUST a secretary who has wrecked at least three
homes by sleeping with her bosses).
I finally said to her that her life must be so very empty and again told her
how sorry I was that she didn't know the joy of being a mother and walked
away from her.
Is there anything more important than being the very best mother you can
possibly be? I think not. Children are very special gifts and deserve to be
treated like it. We are touching the future every day and I don't understand
why some people in society don't see the value in this.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sablehs
I agree it is a job to be a mom, especially striving to be a GREAT
MOM. That is part of my identity, striving to be the best mom I can.
BUT {there's always that but aint there <g>}
This was just on "another list" about how some people can look down
upon people because they choose not to procreate. So I had to add in
that perspective.
That's their choice. {and I'm not beating you down about this} I
just wanted to say that some people REALLY shouldn't have kids. Some
may in the pinch be good parents even if they didn't want kids, but
if it really isn't in their heart to do so, I'd rather say cool, to
each their own.
If someone's identity isn't having kids and especially if they don't
have any, they have no idea what it means to be a parent. I NEVER
knew how much I would love my kids until they were here, nomatter how
much I imagined it before.I'm all for defending your point of view,
but somepeople just weren't meant to parent, and unfortunately, some
of them DO have kids.
Tracy
MOM. That is part of my identity, striving to be the best mom I can.
BUT {there's always that but aint there <g>}
This was just on "another list" about how some people can look down
upon people because they choose not to procreate. So I had to add in
that perspective.
That's their choice. {and I'm not beating you down about this} I
just wanted to say that some people REALLY shouldn't have kids. Some
may in the pinch be good parents even if they didn't want kids, but
if it really isn't in their heart to do so, I'd rather say cool, to
each their own.
If someone's identity isn't having kids and especially if they don't
have any, they have no idea what it means to be a parent. I NEVER
knew how much I would love my kids until they were here, nomatter how
much I imagined it before.I'm all for defending your point of view,
but somepeople just weren't meant to parent, and unfortunately, some
of them DO have kids.
Tracy
--- In [email protected], rubyprincesstsg@a... wrote:
>> Being "just a mother" is a very honorable thing. Sometimes people
don't
> understand giving up a job that one works years at achieving
to "just be a
> mother."
>
> Later while chatting, one of the other graduates was talking about
her life
> and all that she had become and said she really never got around to
having
> children and it just seemed to time consuming and of course there
is always
> the "getting fat" part.
>
> I just looked at her and said "I really feel so sorry for you" and
explained
> to her that my children are my greatest joy and I'm so glad that
I "found"
> the time to have children. She went on and on and was fairly
demeaning about
> being "just a mom" (she was JUST a secretary who has wrecked at
least three
> homes by sleeping with her bosses).
>
> I finally said to her that her life must be so very empty and again
told her
> how sorry I was that she didn't know the joy of being a mother and
walked
> away from her.
>
> Is there anything more important than being the very best mother
you can
> possibly be? I think not. Children are very special gifts and
deserve to be
> treated like it. We are touching the future every day and I don't
understand
> why some people in society don't see the value in this.
>
> glena
Mary
From: "sablehs" <sablehs@...>
.
<<If someone's identity isn't having kids and especially if they don't
have any, they have no idea what it means to be a parent. I NEVER
knew how much I would love my kids until they were here, nomatter how
much I imagined it before.I'm all for defending your point of view,
but somepeople just weren't meant to parent, and unfortunately, some
of them DO have kids.>>
I agree that some people shouldn't have children. Not just because they
might make crappy parents but because they just don't want children. Not
everyone is able to deal with what it takes to have a family. I certainly
would never "feel sorry" for someone that didn't want children. Maybe
feeling bad for people who want them and can't, but not people who make that
decision willingly. I have many family and friends who have decided not to
have kids, they are very happy with the way their life is.
Mary B
.
<<If someone's identity isn't having kids and especially if they don't
have any, they have no idea what it means to be a parent. I NEVER
knew how much I would love my kids until they were here, nomatter how
much I imagined it before.I'm all for defending your point of view,
but somepeople just weren't meant to parent, and unfortunately, some
of them DO have kids.>>
I agree that some people shouldn't have children. Not just because they
might make crappy parents but because they just don't want children. Not
everyone is able to deal with what it takes to have a family. I certainly
would never "feel sorry" for someone that didn't want children. Maybe
feeling bad for people who want them and can't, but not people who make that
decision willingly. I have many family and friends who have decided not to
have kids, they are very happy with the way their life is.
Mary B
Rebecca DeLong
sablehs <sablehs@...> wrote:
<<<I agree it is a job to be a mom, especially striving to be a GREAT
MOM. That is part of my identity, striving to be the best mom I can.
BUT {there's always that but aint there <g>}
This was just on "another list" about how some people can look down
upon people because they choose not to procreate.>>>
uggg, I think I'm on that list too. Unless this subject is going around a bunch right now. I stayed out of the conversation, I did feel like if I spoke up about my kiddos and my love for them I would be shot down, so I kept my mouth shut.
Rebecca
*~*Leave the crowd, look within, and let your dreams soar*~*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<<I agree it is a job to be a mom, especially striving to be a GREAT
MOM. That is part of my identity, striving to be the best mom I can.
BUT {there's always that but aint there <g>}
This was just on "another list" about how some people can look down
upon people because they choose not to procreate.>>>
uggg, I think I'm on that list too. Unless this subject is going around a bunch right now. I stayed out of the conversation, I did feel like if I spoke up about my kiddos and my love for them I would be shot down, so I kept my mouth shut.
Rebecca
*~*Leave the crowd, look within, and let your dreams soar*~*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sablehs
--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
Tracy
wrote:
> I agree that some people shouldn't have children. Not just becausethey
> might make crappy parents but because they just don't wantchildren. Not
> everyone is able to deal with what it takes to have a family. Icertainly
> would never "feel sorry" for someone that didn't want children.Maybe
> feeling bad for people who want them and can't, but not people whomake that
> decision willingly. I have many family and friends who have decidednot to
> have kids, they are very happy with the way their life is.Exactly :-)
>
Tracy
Olga
This took me a long time to understand. My first son was an angel,
the most easy going child I have ever met. I could NOT understand
how people did not want kids, espcially since at that time we wanted
6 kids. But then I had number two and the work increased and he is
much fiestier, but also more full of life. I also saw my sister, who
was never sure if she wanted kids have a daughter. Her husband was
not interested in her and my sister as hard as she tried just does
not have the passion I have. It is heart breaking to see her
daughter because although she is loved, she will always come after my
sister. In a way, she is an after thought. I think if my sister
could go back and not have her she would, she may never admit it and
I know she loves her now, but still...
Also, I personally love kids. However, life would certainly be
*easier* without them. Especially if you are caught up in
the "American Dream" of having more. Another possiblity, my
girlfriend has been waiting patiently for grandkids for years and
finally her daughther (who is a school teacher and loves kids) told
her she was afraid. Her and her dh were getting along so well, and
everything was at such peace she thought it may ruin it. I cannot
imagine it but I can understand it.
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], "sablehs" <sablehs@y...>
wrote:
the most easy going child I have ever met. I could NOT understand
how people did not want kids, espcially since at that time we wanted
6 kids. But then I had number two and the work increased and he is
much fiestier, but also more full of life. I also saw my sister, who
was never sure if she wanted kids have a daughter. Her husband was
not interested in her and my sister as hard as she tried just does
not have the passion I have. It is heart breaking to see her
daughter because although she is loved, she will always come after my
sister. In a way, she is an after thought. I think if my sister
could go back and not have her she would, she may never admit it and
I know she loves her now, but still...
Also, I personally love kids. However, life would certainly be
*easier* without them. Especially if you are caught up in
the "American Dream" of having more. Another possiblity, my
girlfriend has been waiting patiently for grandkids for years and
finally her daughther (who is a school teacher and loves kids) told
her she was afraid. Her and her dh were getting along so well, and
everything was at such peace she thought it may ruin it. I cannot
imagine it but I can understand it.
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], "sablehs" <sablehs@y...>
wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>because
> wrote:
> > I agree that some people shouldn't have children. Not just
> theywho
> > might make crappy parents but because they just don't want
> children. Not
> > everyone is able to deal with what it takes to have a family. I
> certainly
> > would never "feel sorry" for someone that didn't want children.
> Maybe
> > feeling bad for people who want them and can't, but not people
> make thatdecided
> > decision willingly. I have many family and friends who have
> not to
> > have kids, they are very happy with the way their life is.
> >
>
>
> Exactly :-)
> Tracy
coyote's corner
Well, there's something as important...being the very best that you can be.
Being the very best woman, healer, whatever role you may have in the larger picture.
Yes, that's important.
Janis
Being the very best woman, healer, whatever role you may have in the larger picture.
Yes, that's important.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: rubyprincesstsg@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] perspective for Laura B.
In a message dated 5/8/2003 8:15:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I'm well thought of by some over-protective parents whose kids can't cut it
> in school.
> I'm popular among some homeschoolers who can't even get it together to use
> a
> curriculum right.
> They will just shake their heads at my delusions of reality. <g>
>
> Sandra
>
At my 20th high school reunion (from the church school) they had asked me to
come and speak to the graduating class (I was Valedictorian 20 years
previously what could I possibly say?).
I get a big intro, valedictorian, college, nursing degree, masters degree,
delivered lots of babies... It was embarrassing and done only for them to
take pride in how THEIR student turned out. I was none of those things
BECAUSE of their school.
So I stood up, asked my children to come up to the stage with me and I
introduced them and said THESE are the jewels in my crown, not some degree,
THIS is what I do, I mother these precious children. I told them nothing
else really mattered in life if I didn't get the mothering thing right.
No matter how many children I might help bring into this world, if my own are
not loved and respected then what's the point?
Being "just a mother" is a very honorable thing. Sometimes people don't
understand giving up a job that one works years at achieving to "just be a
mother."
Later while chatting, one of the other graduates was talking about her life
and all that she had become and said she really never got around to having
children and it just seemed to time consuming and of course there is always
the "getting fat" part.
I just looked at her and said "I really feel so sorry for you" and explained
to her that my children are my greatest joy and I'm so glad that I "found"
the time to have children. She went on and on and was fairly demeaning about
being "just a mom" (she was JUST a secretary who has wrecked at least three
homes by sleeping with her bosses).
I finally said to her that her life must be so very empty and again told her
how sorry I was that she didn't know the joy of being a mother and walked
away from her.
Is there anything more important than being the very best mother you can
possibly be? I think not. Children are very special gifts and deserve to be
treated like it. We are touching the future every day and I don't understand
why some people in society don't see the value in this.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/13/2003 8:10:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
That was so beautifully put. I am proud to be 'just a mom'..... and my boys
are better because of it.
Raydie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
>Glena,
> Is there anything more important than being the very best mother you can
> possibly be? I think not. Children are very special gifts and deserve to
> be
> treated like it. We are touching the future every day and I don't
> understand
> why some people in society don't see the value in this.
>
> glena
That was so beautifully put. I am proud to be 'just a mom'..... and my boys
are better because of it.
Raydie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 5/13/03 8:08 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... at rubyprincesstsg@...
wrote:
But *becoming* a mother should be a personal choice in terms of importance.
Joyce
wrote:
> Is there anything more important than being the very best mother you canIf someone has children, yes.
> possibly be?
But *becoming* a mother should be a personal choice in terms of importance.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/14/2003 8:43:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
If someone has children, yes.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
If someone has children, yes.
>I think Joyce meant, "If someone has NO children"...<g>
> But *becoming* a mother should be a personal choice in terms of importance.
>
> Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/13/03 8:10:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
never feel sorry for someone that chose not to have children. I would feel
horrible if someone said they felt bad for me for having children I would
think she would feel bad and maybe a little defensive as well. I think we
all need to be respected for our choices. Maybe she gave the decision a lot
of thought and decided that it just wasn't for her. That has to be OK. I
would respect my boys if they decided they did not want to be fathers, it is
their choice.
Just my thoughts on this.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
> I just looked at her and said "I really feel so sorry for you" and explainedWhile I don't feel the other woman handled the situation well at all, I would
>
> to her that my children are my greatest joy and I'm so glad that I "found"
> the time to have children. She went on and on and was fairly demeaning
> about
> being "just a mom" (she was JUST a secretary who has wrecked at least three
>
> homes by sleeping with her bosses).
>
> I finally said to her that her life must be so very empty and again told
> her
> how sorry I was that she didn't know the joy of being a mother and walked
> away from her.
>
>
never feel sorry for someone that chose not to have children. I would feel
horrible if someone said they felt bad for me for having children I would
think she would feel bad and maybe a little defensive as well. I think we
all need to be respected for our choices. Maybe she gave the decision a lot
of thought and decided that it just wasn't for her. That has to be OK. I
would respect my boys if they decided they did not want to be fathers, it is
their choice.
Just my thoughts on this.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 5/14/03 8:48 AM, kbcdlovejo@... at kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
I meant there isn't anything more important than being "the very best mother
you can possibly be" *if* you have children.
But *becoming* a mother isn't the most important thing a woman can do.
That's a personal choice.
Though it sounds like the secretary has made some choices that haven't
brought her happiness, if she had chosen motherhood, especially thinking it
was too much trouble, I suspect she would have not only made herself
miserable but her children too.
Joyce
> In a message dated 5/14/2003 8:43:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,Nope, meant what I said. But maybe it wasn't clear!
> fetteroll@... writes:
> If someone has children, yes.
>>
>> But *becoming* a mother should be a personal choice in terms of importance.
>>
>> Joyce
>
> I think Joyce meant, "If someone has NO children"...<g>
I meant there isn't anything more important than being "the very best mother
you can possibly be" *if* you have children.
But *becoming* a mother isn't the most important thing a woman can do.
That's a personal choice.
Though it sounds like the secretary has made some choices that haven't
brought her happiness, if she had chosen motherhood, especially thinking it
was too much trouble, I suspect she would have not only made herself
miserable but her children too.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/14/2003 9:40:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
It sounded like "if someone has children, she *should* be the best mother she
could be". With no children, welllll....why bother! <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> If someone has children, yes.Sorry.
> >>
> >> But *becoming* a mother should be a personal choice in terms of
> importance.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >
> > I think Joyce meant, "If someone has NO children"...<g>
>
> Nope, meant what I said. But maybe it wasn't clear!
>
> I meant there isn't anything more important than being "the very best
> mother
> you can possibly be" *if* you have children.
>
> But *becoming* a mother isn't the most important thing a woman can do.
> That's a personal choice.
>
> Though it sounds like the secretary has made some choices that haven't
> brought her happiness, if she had chosen motherhood, especially thinking it
> was too much trouble, I suspect she would have not only made herself
> miserable but her children too.
>
> Joyce
>
It sounded like "if someone has children, she *should* be the best mother she
could be". With no children, welllll....why bother! <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/14/2003 9:01:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
genant2@... writes:
that particular moment. Like it really wasn't anything worthwhile at all,
that any unskilled, ignorant person could sit at home with children all day
and she was just too busy to find time to do that. She never said she CHOSE
not to have children, just never got around to it, like raking the fall
leaves or something.
Being a mother should be a choice, I totally agree and there are definitely
some women who should never be mothers.
I NEVER wanted to be a mother, didn't interest me at all, I was afraid I'd be
like my mother who constantly told me it wasn't her fault she couldn't love
me, so I didn't want to do that to a child.
I was miserable the nine months of my first pregnancy worrying if I
would/could love this baby which seemed very foreign to me. Wondering and
worrying if I could be a mom worthy of a child.
No one could have told me the bond and the love that come from holding your
child in your arms and looking into the face of one so fresh from God. I
KNEW that would be my life's mission, being a mommy to my precious children.
You know what? Not every mother dedicates herself fully to raising her
children or makes them her primary interest and somehow a large portion turn
out OK. So maybe you don't HAVE to be the very best mother that you can
possibly be. But for ME, that is my choice, to be the very best parent I can
possibly be.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
genant2@... writes:
> While I don't feel the other woman handled the situation well at all, II think it was more her attitude towards "mothers" that made me say that at
> would
> never feel sorry for someone that chose not to have children. I would feel
>
> horrible if someone said they felt bad for me for having children I would
> think she would feel bad and maybe a little defensive as well. I think we
> all need to be respected for our choices. Maybe she gave the decision a
> lot
> of thought and decided that it just wasn't for her. That has to be OK. I
> would respect my boys if they decided they did not want to be fathers, it
> is
> their choice.
> Just my thoughts on this.
>
that particular moment. Like it really wasn't anything worthwhile at all,
that any unskilled, ignorant person could sit at home with children all day
and she was just too busy to find time to do that. She never said she CHOSE
not to have children, just never got around to it, like raking the fall
leaves or something.
Being a mother should be a choice, I totally agree and there are definitely
some women who should never be mothers.
I NEVER wanted to be a mother, didn't interest me at all, I was afraid I'd be
like my mother who constantly told me it wasn't her fault she couldn't love
me, so I didn't want to do that to a child.
I was miserable the nine months of my first pregnancy worrying if I
would/could love this baby which seemed very foreign to me. Wondering and
worrying if I could be a mom worthy of a child.
No one could have told me the bond and the love that come from holding your
child in your arms and looking into the face of one so fresh from God. I
KNEW that would be my life's mission, being a mommy to my precious children.
You know what? Not every mother dedicates herself fully to raising her
children or makes them her primary interest and somehow a large portion turn
out OK. So maybe you don't HAVE to be the very best mother that you can
possibly be. But for ME, that is my choice, to be the very best parent I can
possibly be.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>explained
> > I just looked at her and said "I really feel so sorry for you" and
> >"found"
> > to her that my children are my greatest joy and I'm so glad that I
> > the time to have children. She went on and on and was fairly demeaningthree
> > about
> > being "just a mom" (she was JUST a secretary who has wrecked at least
> >I meant to comment on this when it came by before. This statement makes it
> > homes by sleeping with her bosses).
all the secretary's fault that those homes were wrecked. I'm sorry, but
there was another person involved in each of those cases, the man she slept
with.
> >walked
> > I finally said to her that her life must be so very empty and again told
> > her
> > how sorry I was that she didn't know the joy of being a mother and
> > away from her.If I'm remembering correctly that this was from Glena, I'm surprised.
Glena, didn't you get huffy when people made comments to the effect that you
didn't seem to have a life beyond your family. I know that all got worked
out, but isn't this the opposite side of the same coin? Saying that her
life must be so very empty? We need to find ways to be accepting of
people's choices to have or not have children.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/14/2003 3:52:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
leschke@... writes:
<I meant to comment on this when it came by before. This statement makes it
all the secretary's fault that those homes were wrecked. I'm sorry, but
there was another person involved in each of those cases, the man she slept
with.>
I totally agree but this seemed to bring her great pride to tell about each
one and it was as if these were "her" crowning moments in life. That seemed
sad to me. To have to wonder if a husband would leave his wife and children
for me and then if he rejected the idea after a while she would reveal his
indiscretions to his wife or children or whoever she could reach.
One did divorce his wife for her, he got sick, terminally sick, she didn't
want to take care of him, not what she "bought", his ex eventually took him
in until he died. I and others were sitting there in shock as she relayed
all this and then she shrugged and said if he hadn't died, she would have
divorced him anyway.
It did seem like a very sad and lonely life to me. It wasn't a decision NOT
to have kids that made me see/say that. It was more of a matter of fact,
"never got around to that".
I can totally respect anyone's decision NOT to have children, for some people
it's the right thing to do. For others that don't have children it's
heartbreaking, that's why I was an egg donor several years ago, so others who
desperately wanted to be parents could have that chance.
I would never tell anyone who said they decided motherhood was not right for
them that I felt sorry for them, but deep down in my heart I probably would
feel sorry that they would never experience the joys I've known as a mother.
Maybe I would feel badly because I was so very determined to never have
children myself, and now I know the things I would have missed.
I know others fill their lives with many things other than children and have
many things that make their lives perfectly fulfilled and honorable. I can
respect that decision. I was on that same road myself.
I just think if you choose to be a mother why not be the best at it that you
can be? Children are such precious gifts and it's such a joy to watch them
grow and learn, yep, being a mother is a gift...
children.
My DH Uncle died a couple months ago, his wife nine months before that. They
had no children, by choice. They had a dog that was like a child to them,
well actually a couple in their lifetimes. I thought they were perfectly
content with just each other. When Uncle Steve was sick, he told me he
wished he had seen his wife as a mother and their had been children, but he
never knew he really wanted them until it was too late.
So sometimes people might regret the decisions they make early in life, but
sometimes I sure they don't at all.
Heck, my mother probably regrets ever having children at all and she had
four.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leschke@... writes:
<I meant to comment on this when it came by before. This statement makes it
all the secretary's fault that those homes were wrecked. I'm sorry, but
there was another person involved in each of those cases, the man she slept
with.>
I totally agree but this seemed to bring her great pride to tell about each
one and it was as if these were "her" crowning moments in life. That seemed
sad to me. To have to wonder if a husband would leave his wife and children
for me and then if he rejected the idea after a while she would reveal his
indiscretions to his wife or children or whoever she could reach.
One did divorce his wife for her, he got sick, terminally sick, she didn't
want to take care of him, not what she "bought", his ex eventually took him
in until he died. I and others were sitting there in shock as she relayed
all this and then she shrugged and said if he hadn't died, she would have
divorced him anyway.
It did seem like a very sad and lonely life to me. It wasn't a decision NOT
to have kids that made me see/say that. It was more of a matter of fact,
"never got around to that".
I can totally respect anyone's decision NOT to have children, for some people
it's the right thing to do. For others that don't have children it's
heartbreaking, that's why I was an egg donor several years ago, so others who
desperately wanted to be parents could have that chance.
I would never tell anyone who said they decided motherhood was not right for
them that I felt sorry for them, but deep down in my heart I probably would
feel sorry that they would never experience the joys I've known as a mother.
Maybe I would feel badly because I was so very determined to never have
children myself, and now I know the things I would have missed.
I know others fill their lives with many things other than children and have
many things that make their lives perfectly fulfilled and honorable. I can
respect that decision. I was on that same road myself.
I just think if you choose to be a mother why not be the best at it that you
can be? Children are such precious gifts and it's such a joy to watch them
grow and learn, yep, being a mother is a gift...
> If I'm remembering correctly that this was from Glena, I'm surprised.Wasn't me but I am perfectly able to accept someone's decision not to have
> Glena, didn't you get huffy when people made comments to the effect that
> you
> didn't seem to have a life beyond your family. I know that all got worked
> out, but isn't this the opposite side of the same coin? Saying that her
> life must be so very empty? We need to find ways to be accepting of
> people's choices to have or not have children.
>
children.
My DH Uncle died a couple months ago, his wife nine months before that. They
had no children, by choice. They had a dog that was like a child to them,
well actually a couple in their lifetimes. I thought they were perfectly
content with just each other. When Uncle Steve was sick, he told me he
wished he had seen his wife as a mother and their had been children, but he
never knew he really wanted them until it was too late.
So sometimes people might regret the decisions they make early in life, but
sometimes I sure they don't at all.
Heck, my mother probably regrets ever having children at all and she had
four.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]