Re: Friends (LOOOOONG response)
jmcseals SEALS
<<<Any of you ever deal with the friend issues and what did you do? Do I
speak
or zip it?>>>
This is extremely long, but here goes...
My daughter had a friend, E, that lived just around the corner. They became
friends around the age of 8 or so. E always made me feel uncomfortable.
She was a bit overbearing and pushy which irritated me a lot of the time,
but it never seemed to bother Haleigh at all. I'd ask if 'xyz' bothered her
and most of the time she acted like she had no idea what I was talking
about. There were a lot of little things that bothered me about E, so I
figured it was my own biases or experiences that were coming through...not
really reflecting E so much as myself.
For example: E always 'picked' at her crotch. Somewhat like picking a
wedgie but in a constant, obvious kind of way and up front, not behind. I
know children who are sexually abused ten to have these sort of reactions
and that thought never left my mind. She was also always dirty, wore
clothes that were either way too big or way too small. She was overweight
and had very large breasts, in proportion to her overall size and never wore
a training bra. She really needed one. Much of the time, her breasts were
exposed through huge armholes of shirts without sleeves.
There were other things that bothered us as well...my husband and I. She
made a very big deal about whispering and telling secrets. I realize girls
love to do these things and it is quite normal. However, there seemed to be
something different about it with E. Not really something I could put my
finger on, but something my husband and I just couldn't get past.
She was ALWAYS at our house. She would show up early in the am and I
wouldn't see or hear from her parents at all. Many times we would call and
not get an answer. I started to feel like a babysitter. There were many
times I would tell E it was time to go home and she would say her parents
were at church, of all places!, and wouldn't be back until X time. No one
even TOLD us we were babysitting! Once, I sent her home and she came back
FIVE hours later and said her parents still weren't home and could she
please spend the night. That was my last straw. I called her mother and
had it out. She made some excuse that E had said it was ok to stay with us
so I told her from then on, we...the mother and I...would have to speak
directly any time E came over. We still had problems but nothing compared
to what started happening after that.
Haleigh began to get very depressed. I tried talking to er numerous times
and she would tell me it was nothing. I knew better and gently prodded for
some idea of what was going on. Turns out no one wanted to play with her
but E. Everyone in the neighborhood disliked E and because Haleigh was her
friend they wanted nothing to do with her either. I happened to be outside
once and overheard a huge fight between about 10 kids, all telling Haleigh
and E to get lost. One of the kids belonged to my neighbor so I talked with
him, the dad, about it. e called his daughter in and they explained that it
wasn't Haleigh that was doing anything. E was calliing people names and
Haleigh just stood by silently and watched it happen. I had a long talk
with Haleigh and E. For a short while, things improved again.
The last time they were together, Nicholette came in crying and screaming.
She took me outside and showed me the most horrific thing I think I've ever
seen a child do. E had taken Nicholette's brand new doll and painted it red
with nail polish. She drew a slash across the neck with blood dripping down
and cut it almost completely off with a pair of scissors. It was tied with
a rope by the neck and hung on our back fence. The entire doll was almost
completely covered in 'blood'. By this time, E was gone and Haleigh was
sitting in the treehouse crying. She was afraid to tell me because she
thought I would think she did it! That was totally unlike her!
I ended up going to the police with the doll and my long story. I was
traumatized and didn't know what else to do. I explained the story, my
concerns, all the little things that bothered me. The officer told me they
had long history with E's family. Her mother had just been committed to
the hospital for a suicide attempt. E had told me her mom was in the
hospital but said it was for diabetes. Her Dad told us the same thing! The
officer als told us that there were 'suspicions' of other 'inappropriate
activity' in the home and they were under investigation. I was appalled and
horrified.
We sat down with Haleigh and tried to explain everything to her in terms she
would understand without overloading her with unneeded information that
might scare her even more. By that time she was almost 10. It was very
hard but once she was relived of the relationship, she blossomed and became
our happy child again.
All that time, I thought I was helping by offering a positive environment
for E to be in. I knew her parents weren't the most interested, but I also
had all those nagging thoughts which I tried to reason away. Her parents
always seemed to have the right answer for everything and I know now I was
far too trusting of them. I learned an awful lesson.
We are now very careful about who our children have as friends. I wish I
had trusted my own instincts and reported my suspicions in the beginning. I
wish I had connected my daughters depression to her friendship with E. I
wish I wasn't so hard pressed to "save" E that I let my own daughter suffer
as a result. For some reason, I just didn't see it when it was hitting me
right in the nose.
I want my children to be able to make friends and chose their own friends
but at the same time, I am now very aware of any warning signs and address
them immediately. I follow my gut feelings and if things don't feel right,
I step in. I'm sure this is far more seious than what you are dealing with.
I just wanted to share what happened to us because I think it is so easy
to want to 'save' children in bad and unfortunate situations. I didn't
*see* it for what it was until it damaged my child. I think young children
are very imperssionable, especially those that have a narrower group of
friends, and are more willing to hang on rather than look away and find
someone else. I find this true of a lot of homeschoolers I know...sometimes
my family included! When you aren't involved in church or many outside
activities and the neighborhood isn't swarming with children it can be
difficult to provide a large assortment of friendly possibilities.
I hope you WILL follow your instincts and get to the bottom of any problens
you have with this family. I would definitely speak up and if the answers I
got didn't match what I was seeing I'd throw up the red flags and monitor
closely and wouldn't wait around until something really bad happened. What
happened to us was very extreme, but even smaller things can be damaging to
a child's self esteem and reasoning abilities. It sounds like the red flags
are going up for your son also. Something I would for sure address. I'd
also check the status of the rabies shots on the dog and report it if he
isn't up to date.
BTW, I did address the doll issue with E's parents and she LAUGHED! "Kids
will be kids and they do silly stuff like that." I told her I completely
disagreed and that E was no longer welcome in our home or allowed to contact
Haleigh. It was one of the hardest things I've had to do but I'm SO glad I
did it. Funny, SHE thought *I* was being overprotective! Wouldn't have
hurt her to take a few pointers, if you ask me!
Sorry this went on so long! I hope things work out for you and your son.
It's hard being a parent sometimes, isn't it!?!
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
speak
or zip it?>>>
This is extremely long, but here goes...
My daughter had a friend, E, that lived just around the corner. They became
friends around the age of 8 or so. E always made me feel uncomfortable.
She was a bit overbearing and pushy which irritated me a lot of the time,
but it never seemed to bother Haleigh at all. I'd ask if 'xyz' bothered her
and most of the time she acted like she had no idea what I was talking
about. There were a lot of little things that bothered me about E, so I
figured it was my own biases or experiences that were coming through...not
really reflecting E so much as myself.
For example: E always 'picked' at her crotch. Somewhat like picking a
wedgie but in a constant, obvious kind of way and up front, not behind. I
know children who are sexually abused ten to have these sort of reactions
and that thought never left my mind. She was also always dirty, wore
clothes that were either way too big or way too small. She was overweight
and had very large breasts, in proportion to her overall size and never wore
a training bra. She really needed one. Much of the time, her breasts were
exposed through huge armholes of shirts without sleeves.
There were other things that bothered us as well...my husband and I. She
made a very big deal about whispering and telling secrets. I realize girls
love to do these things and it is quite normal. However, there seemed to be
something different about it with E. Not really something I could put my
finger on, but something my husband and I just couldn't get past.
She was ALWAYS at our house. She would show up early in the am and I
wouldn't see or hear from her parents at all. Many times we would call and
not get an answer. I started to feel like a babysitter. There were many
times I would tell E it was time to go home and she would say her parents
were at church, of all places!, and wouldn't be back until X time. No one
even TOLD us we were babysitting! Once, I sent her home and she came back
FIVE hours later and said her parents still weren't home and could she
please spend the night. That was my last straw. I called her mother and
had it out. She made some excuse that E had said it was ok to stay with us
so I told her from then on, we...the mother and I...would have to speak
directly any time E came over. We still had problems but nothing compared
to what started happening after that.
Haleigh began to get very depressed. I tried talking to er numerous times
and she would tell me it was nothing. I knew better and gently prodded for
some idea of what was going on. Turns out no one wanted to play with her
but E. Everyone in the neighborhood disliked E and because Haleigh was her
friend they wanted nothing to do with her either. I happened to be outside
once and overheard a huge fight between about 10 kids, all telling Haleigh
and E to get lost. One of the kids belonged to my neighbor so I talked with
him, the dad, about it. e called his daughter in and they explained that it
wasn't Haleigh that was doing anything. E was calliing people names and
Haleigh just stood by silently and watched it happen. I had a long talk
with Haleigh and E. For a short while, things improved again.
The last time they were together, Nicholette came in crying and screaming.
She took me outside and showed me the most horrific thing I think I've ever
seen a child do. E had taken Nicholette's brand new doll and painted it red
with nail polish. She drew a slash across the neck with blood dripping down
and cut it almost completely off with a pair of scissors. It was tied with
a rope by the neck and hung on our back fence. The entire doll was almost
completely covered in 'blood'. By this time, E was gone and Haleigh was
sitting in the treehouse crying. She was afraid to tell me because she
thought I would think she did it! That was totally unlike her!
I ended up going to the police with the doll and my long story. I was
traumatized and didn't know what else to do. I explained the story, my
concerns, all the little things that bothered me. The officer told me they
had long history with E's family. Her mother had just been committed to
the hospital for a suicide attempt. E had told me her mom was in the
hospital but said it was for diabetes. Her Dad told us the same thing! The
officer als told us that there were 'suspicions' of other 'inappropriate
activity' in the home and they were under investigation. I was appalled and
horrified.
We sat down with Haleigh and tried to explain everything to her in terms she
would understand without overloading her with unneeded information that
might scare her even more. By that time she was almost 10. It was very
hard but once she was relived of the relationship, she blossomed and became
our happy child again.
All that time, I thought I was helping by offering a positive environment
for E to be in. I knew her parents weren't the most interested, but I also
had all those nagging thoughts which I tried to reason away. Her parents
always seemed to have the right answer for everything and I know now I was
far too trusting of them. I learned an awful lesson.
We are now very careful about who our children have as friends. I wish I
had trusted my own instincts and reported my suspicions in the beginning. I
wish I had connected my daughters depression to her friendship with E. I
wish I wasn't so hard pressed to "save" E that I let my own daughter suffer
as a result. For some reason, I just didn't see it when it was hitting me
right in the nose.
I want my children to be able to make friends and chose their own friends
but at the same time, I am now very aware of any warning signs and address
them immediately. I follow my gut feelings and if things don't feel right,
I step in. I'm sure this is far more seious than what you are dealing with.
I just wanted to share what happened to us because I think it is so easy
to want to 'save' children in bad and unfortunate situations. I didn't
*see* it for what it was until it damaged my child. I think young children
are very imperssionable, especially those that have a narrower group of
friends, and are more willing to hang on rather than look away and find
someone else. I find this true of a lot of homeschoolers I know...sometimes
my family included! When you aren't involved in church or many outside
activities and the neighborhood isn't swarming with children it can be
difficult to provide a large assortment of friendly possibilities.
I hope you WILL follow your instincts and get to the bottom of any problens
you have with this family. I would definitely speak up and if the answers I
got didn't match what I was seeing I'd throw up the red flags and monitor
closely and wouldn't wait around until something really bad happened. What
happened to us was very extreme, but even smaller things can be damaging to
a child's self esteem and reasoning abilities. It sounds like the red flags
are going up for your son also. Something I would for sure address. I'd
also check the status of the rabies shots on the dog and report it if he
isn't up to date.
BTW, I did address the doll issue with E's parents and she LAUGHED! "Kids
will be kids and they do silly stuff like that." I told her I completely
disagreed and that E was no longer welcome in our home or allowed to contact
Haleigh. It was one of the hardest things I've had to do but I'm SO glad I
did it. Funny, SHE thought *I* was being overprotective! Wouldn't have
hurt her to take a few pointers, if you ask me!
Sorry this went on so long! I hope things work out for you and your son.
It's hard being a parent sometimes, isn't it!?!
Jennifer
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Jennifer,
That was so sad. Tears came to my eyes for you and your daughter but also
that little girl "E".
I really want to follow my instinct I know a few people who did not and had
awful situations.
I will be talking with him today, he was talking about it last night and
spoke of not playing with the boy again. I will also add that he has been
barking at me the past several days and I have had to just stop and look at
him and ask him what's up.
Thank you for responding, thank you for sharing this experience.
Laura D
In a message dated 5/8/2003 12:12:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jmcseals@... writes:
That was so sad. Tears came to my eyes for you and your daughter but also
that little girl "E".
I really want to follow my instinct I know a few people who did not and had
awful situations.
I will be talking with him today, he was talking about it last night and
spoke of not playing with the boy again. I will also add that he has been
barking at me the past several days and I have had to just stop and look at
him and ask him what's up.
Thank you for responding, thank you for sharing this experience.
Laura D
In a message dated 5/8/2003 12:12:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jmcseals@... writes:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> <<<Any of you ever deal with the friend issues and what did you do? Do I
> speak
> or zip it?>>>
>
> This is extremely long, but here goes...
>
> My daughter had a friend, E, that lived just around the corner. They
> became
> friends around the age of 8 or so. E always made me feel uncomfortable.
> She was a bit overbearing and pushy which irritated me a lot of the time,
> but it never seemed to bother Haleigh at all. I'd ask if 'xyz' bothered
> her
> and most of the time she acted like she had no idea what I was talking
> about. There were a lot of little things that bothered me about E, so I
> figured it was my own biases or experiences that were coming through...not
> really reflecting E so much as myself.
jmcseals SEALS
I will also add that he has been
barking at me the past several days and I have had to just stop and look at
him and ask him what's up. >>>
LOL, okay, I'm totally confused here, but are you referring to the child or
the dog?? Haleigh has LOVED dogs since shw was two. We got a copy of 101
Dalmatians and she fell in love! It didn't take long for her to start
crawling around and barking. It was cute for a while but within a year,
that was the primary use of her vocal chords! The first time we met my bil,
Haleigh was 3. She never spoke a word to him. She was all barks! I was
actually a embarassed (dumb) and kept trying to get her to say at least
"Hi", but she would only bark. So Micha, bil, just barked back! For the
next year, he never heard her say a word! Their sole form of communication
was barking! Haleigh had been talking in sentences since well before her
first birthday, a very early talker, but Micha didn't believe me for the
longest time! It was great to see him embrace her chosen form of 'talking'.
Really changed how I viewed the whole thing.
Up until about two years ago, Haleigh still barked a lot, though only during
playtime with her sisters. Needless to say, I now have a houseful of
children who bark constantly!! I know people must think our kids are very
odd. <bwg> I remember thinking the same thing once!
Anyway, this is a useless story if you were talking about the actual dog
barking <g> but I just wanted to say that some kids just use it as an
outlet, I think, and it can become a habit, especially if they get a good
response, like an uncle barking back! Maybe to get attention, maybe to be
funny or just to have fun, I really don't know. I've tried to ask Haleigh
about it but she is "too cool" now to remember that fondly and rolls her
eyes when I talk about it. Teenagers! Well, ok, preteens, but she acts
like a teenager! <bg>
Haleigh was an only child until the age of 5. My daughter, Hillary, was
born when Haleigh was 23 months old but she was stillborn. I often wonder
if maybe this was Haleigh's escape...to act like a dog. If memory serves
me, it seems like it was very near that time. I'm not sure, though, because
I have a bad habit of blocking out traumatic times in my life and sadly, do
not remember much around that time. :( Maybe this boy (*if* he's the one
barking <g>) just uses barking as an outlet. A way to escape. Or maybe I'm
just going too deep and digging too much. Something to consider, I guess!
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
barking at me the past several days and I have had to just stop and look at
him and ask him what's up. >>>
LOL, okay, I'm totally confused here, but are you referring to the child or
the dog?? Haleigh has LOVED dogs since shw was two. We got a copy of 101
Dalmatians and she fell in love! It didn't take long for her to start
crawling around and barking. It was cute for a while but within a year,
that was the primary use of her vocal chords! The first time we met my bil,
Haleigh was 3. She never spoke a word to him. She was all barks! I was
actually a embarassed (dumb) and kept trying to get her to say at least
"Hi", but she would only bark. So Micha, bil, just barked back! For the
next year, he never heard her say a word! Their sole form of communication
was barking! Haleigh had been talking in sentences since well before her
first birthday, a very early talker, but Micha didn't believe me for the
longest time! It was great to see him embrace her chosen form of 'talking'.
Really changed how I viewed the whole thing.
Up until about two years ago, Haleigh still barked a lot, though only during
playtime with her sisters. Needless to say, I now have a houseful of
children who bark constantly!! I know people must think our kids are very
odd. <bwg> I remember thinking the same thing once!
Anyway, this is a useless story if you were talking about the actual dog
barking <g> but I just wanted to say that some kids just use it as an
outlet, I think, and it can become a habit, especially if they get a good
response, like an uncle barking back! Maybe to get attention, maybe to be
funny or just to have fun, I really don't know. I've tried to ask Haleigh
about it but she is "too cool" now to remember that fondly and rolls her
eyes when I talk about it. Teenagers! Well, ok, preteens, but she acts
like a teenager! <bg>
Haleigh was an only child until the age of 5. My daughter, Hillary, was
born when Haleigh was 23 months old but she was stillborn. I often wonder
if maybe this was Haleigh's escape...to act like a dog. If memory serves
me, it seems like it was very near that time. I'm not sure, though, because
I have a bad habit of blocking out traumatic times in my life and sadly, do
not remember much around that time. :( Maybe this boy (*if* he's the one
barking <g>) just uses barking as an outlet. A way to escape. Or maybe I'm
just going too deep and digging too much. Something to consider, I guess!
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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LOL,
I guess I should have used a different word. He has been barking meaning
snappy,quick,grouchy since he has been hanging around this boy. My son that
is.
I called the town to find out if the dog is registered and they say no. So I
guess I will have to report the situation but then again his doctor will
today too. They said they will need to quarantine the dog for 10 days. Bummer
but its gota be. They also told me there three are two dogs running our
neighborhood which I knew but being that this dog is chained day and night
there is a good chance it needs to be looked at any way. Dustin says he look
like (sp) Cojo all nasty looking and dirty. <sigh>
We shall see what happens.
I feel bad but you know what we ahve two dogs a shep/lab mix and a Brittany
we dont chain them out and they are clean and have never bitten anyone. I
also hope they never do I certianly wouldnt want to be in this position
myself.
Laura D
Laura D
In a message dated 5/8/2003 10:29:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jmcseals@... writes:
I guess I should have used a different word. He has been barking meaning
snappy,quick,grouchy since he has been hanging around this boy. My son that
is.
I called the town to find out if the dog is registered and they say no. So I
guess I will have to report the situation but then again his doctor will
today too. They said they will need to quarantine the dog for 10 days. Bummer
but its gota be. They also told me there three are two dogs running our
neighborhood which I knew but being that this dog is chained day and night
there is a good chance it needs to be looked at any way. Dustin says he look
like (sp) Cojo all nasty looking and dirty. <sigh>
We shall see what happens.
I feel bad but you know what we ahve two dogs a shep/lab mix and a Brittany
we dont chain them out and they are clean and have never bitten anyone. I
also hope they never do I certianly wouldnt want to be in this position
myself.
Laura D
Laura D
In a message dated 5/8/2003 10:29:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jmcseals@... writes:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> I will also add that he has been
> barking at me the past several days and I have had to just stop and look at
> him and ask him what's up. >>>
>
> LOL, okay, I'm totally confused here, but are you referring to the child or
>
> the dog?? Haleigh has LOVED dogs since shw was two. We got a copy of 101
> Dalmatians and she fell in love! It didn't take long for her to start
> crawling around and barking. It was cute for a while but within a year,
> that was the primary use of her vocal chords! The first time we met my
> bil,
> Haleigh was 3. She never spoke a word to him. She was all barks! I was
> actually a embarassed (dumb) and kept trying to get her to say at least
> "Hi", but she would only bark. So Micha, bil, just barked back! For the
> next year, he never heard her say a word! Their sole form of communication
>
> was barking! Haleigh had been talking in sentences since well before her
> first birthday, a very early talker, but Micha didn't believe me for the
> longest time! It was great to see him embrace her chosen form of
> 'talking'.
> Really changed how I viewed the whole thing.
>
> Up until about two years ago, Haleigh still barked a lot, though only
> during
> playtime with her sisters. Needless to say, I now have a houseful of
> children who bark constantly!! I know people must think our kids are very
> odd. <bwg> I remember thinking the same thing once!
>
> Anyway, this is a useless story if you were talking about the actual dog
> barking <g> but I just wanted to say that some kids just use it as an
> outlet, I think, and it can become a habit, especially if they get a good
> response, like an uncle barking back! Maybe to get attention, maybe to be
> funny or just to have fun, I really don't know. I've tried to ask Haleigh
> about it but she is "too cool" now to remember that fondly and rolls her
> eyes when I talk about it. Teenagers! Well, ok, preteens, but she acts
> like a teenager! <bg>
>
> Haleigh was an only child until the age of 5. My daughter, Hillary, was
> born when Haleigh was 23 months old but she was stillborn. I often wonder
> if maybe this was Haleigh's escape...to act like a dog. If memory serves
> me, it seems like it was very near that time. I'm not sure, though,
> because
> I have a bad habit of blocking out traumatic times in my life and sadly, do
>
> not remember much around that time. :( Maybe this boy (*if* he's the one
> barking <g>) just uses barking as an outlet. A way to escape. Or maybe
> I'm
> just going too deep and digging too much. Something to consider, I guess!
>
> Jennifer
>
>
jmcseals SEALS
<<LOL,
I guess I should have used a different word. He has been barking meaning
snappy,quick,grouchy since he has been hanging around this boy. My son that
is.>>>
LOL!!! Oh DUH! That reference never even occurred to me! Ah well, at
least it gave me a good laugh. Next time I'll save the stories until I get
a response to my questions! Too funny!
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I guess I should have used a different word. He has been barking meaning
snappy,quick,grouchy since he has been hanging around this boy. My son that
is.>>>
LOL!!! Oh DUH! That reference never even occurred to me! Ah well, at
least it gave me a good laugh. Next time I'll save the stories until I get
a response to my questions! Too funny!
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]