learning styles and unschooling
[email protected]
<< I would unschool any kid with any learning style because that's what
unschooling IS - creating the space for your kids to learn in whatever way
they do.
With unschooling, I don't see that it matters what a child's "learning style"
is--that stuff seems best suited for teacher training. If teachers are set
on read the chapter and answer the questions, and education professors can
convince them some kids don't learn well that way, maybe those teachers will
throw in some songs and games and something to touch and smell.
I'm assuming that unschooling families have never deprived any child of the
freedom and opportunity to use all their senses, to move or to sit, to talk
to themselves while they work or to look out the window, to work in short
bursts or to sit at one project for four hours.
IF those opportunities are all present, it doesn't matter if a parent knows
what his child's learning style might be deemed to be by a professional
educator. They'll learn more than one way anyway.
Sandra
unschooling IS - creating the space for your kids to learn in whatever way
they do.
>>I agree with Paula.
With unschooling, I don't see that it matters what a child's "learning style"
is--that stuff seems best suited for teacher training. If teachers are set
on read the chapter and answer the questions, and education professors can
convince them some kids don't learn well that way, maybe those teachers will
throw in some songs and games and something to touch and smell.
I'm assuming that unschooling families have never deprived any child of the
freedom and opportunity to use all their senses, to move or to sit, to talk
to themselves while they work or to look out the window, to work in short
bursts or to sit at one project for four hours.
IF those opportunities are all present, it doesn't matter if a parent knows
what his child's learning style might be deemed to be by a professional
educator. They'll learn more than one way anyway.
Sandra
Kelly Lenhart
>IF those opportunities are all present, it doesn't matter if a parent knowsReally? I think it would matter quite a bit.
>what his child's learning style might be deemed to be by a professional
>educator. They'll learn more than one way anyway.
>Sandra
My son's best friend clearly learns in an auditory way. He asks questions
and needs to HEAR the answer. He will ask repeated questions until the
answer sinks in.
Kid makes me CRAZY! He's a doll, but it can be very frustrating for me to
deal with his questions. For the longest time I didn't understand *why* he
was always asking questions, frequently the same one over and over.
Understanding his learning style has changed how I react to him. Presenting
him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't helpful--he
needs HIS way.
Kelly
Betsy
**Really? I think it would matter quite a bit.
My son's best friend clearly learns in an auditory way. He asks questions
and needs to HEAR the answer. He will ask repeated questions until the
answer sinks in.
Kid makes me CRAZY! He's a doll, but it can be very frustrating for me to
deal with his questions. For the longest time I didn't understand *why* he
was always asking questions, frequently the same one over and over.
Understanding his learning style has changed how I react to him. Presenting
him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't helpful--he
needs HIS way.
**
But, clearly, he can ask for what he needs. We don't have to know our
kids "styles", we can just keep giving them what they ask for, because
that's what they need.
Betsy
My son's best friend clearly learns in an auditory way. He asks questions
and needs to HEAR the answer. He will ask repeated questions until the
answer sinks in.
Kid makes me CRAZY! He's a doll, but it can be very frustrating for me to
deal with his questions. For the longest time I didn't understand *why* he
was always asking questions, frequently the same one over and over.
Understanding his learning style has changed how I react to him. Presenting
him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't helpful--he
needs HIS way.
**
But, clearly, he can ask for what he needs. We don't have to know our
kids "styles", we can just keep giving them what they ask for, because
that's what they need.
Betsy
Kelly Lenhart
>But, clearly, he can ask for what he needs. We don't have to know ourBut my point was that knowing his style helps ME be able to give him what he
>kids "styles", we can just keep giving them what they ask for, because
>that's what they need.
>Betsy
asks for.
My son isn't like that. He rarely if ever demonstrates that behavior. When
he does its for a very different reason. I had been reacting to his friend
based on a false, well not assumption, more like gut reaction to his
actions.
Sometimes knowing WHY a question is being asked helps get the right answer.
I'm sure most of us would recognize our kids "style" pretty easily after
looking at the list. Or styles, because most people deal with combinations.
Kelly
[email protected]
<< Understanding his learning style has changed how I react to him.
Presenting
him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't helpful--he
needs HIS way.
If you JUST present information in a child's primary way, maybe he could have
learned more in a more three-dimensional way. If you have an auditory kid,
do you just speak a recipe to him and not also offer the books for him to
read about that dish and its history? If he'd rather hear it that doesn't
mean he can't also benefit from the words or pictures.
<<Presenting
him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't helpful--he
needs HIS way.>>
Isn't helpful to you to to him?
If kids are learning from the real world, the real world is not divided into
learning styles and it's pretty difficult to shut out the other senses.
-=-Sometimes knowing WHY a question is being asked helps get the right answer.
I'm sure most of us would recognize our kids "style" pretty easily after
looking at the list. Or styles, because most people deal with combinations.
-=-
And given that, why "present" information in one style or another, instead of
in the round, as real-life experience?
Unless a parent is "teaching" in some schooly fashion, how could she fail to
present or facilitate the informational moment in a way that would fit her
child's "learning style"?
Those terms have to do with formal presentation of curriculum, not with
living openly in the real world.
This might help people who think I'm babbling and not making any useful
point. It's a little article called "Disposable Checklists for Parents":
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html
<A HREF="http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html">HEM -
July-August 2002</A>
Sandra
Presenting
him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't helpful--he
needs HIS way.
>>Doesn't he choose his way and learn that way?
If you JUST present information in a child's primary way, maybe he could have
learned more in a more three-dimensional way. If you have an auditory kid,
do you just speak a recipe to him and not also offer the books for him to
read about that dish and its history? If he'd rather hear it that doesn't
mean he can't also benefit from the words or pictures.
<<Presenting
him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't helpful--he
needs HIS way.>>
Isn't helpful to you to to him?
If kids are learning from the real world, the real world is not divided into
learning styles and it's pretty difficult to shut out the other senses.
-=-Sometimes knowing WHY a question is being asked helps get the right answer.
I'm sure most of us would recognize our kids "style" pretty easily after
looking at the list. Or styles, because most people deal with combinations.
-=-
And given that, why "present" information in one style or another, instead of
in the round, as real-life experience?
Unless a parent is "teaching" in some schooly fashion, how could she fail to
present or facilitate the informational moment in a way that would fit her
child's "learning style"?
Those terms have to do with formal presentation of curriculum, not with
living openly in the real world.
This might help people who think I'm babbling and not making any useful
point. It's a little article called "Disposable Checklists for Parents":
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html
<A HREF="http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html">HEM -
July-August 2002</A>
Sandra
Betsy
**If kids are learning from the real world, the real world is not
divided into
learning styles and it's pretty difficult to shut out the other senses. **
Right.
One of the reasons I'm on a rampage about learning styles is that
someone shared with this list a pompous column written by a teacher
about everything a trained teacher can provide to a student that us
pitiful, untrained parents can't (in the teacher's opinion).
Anyway, I didn't pull all my objections together and write to her, so
they are all crashing around in my head still.
One of the most provocative claims that she made was that she had
"training" to teach to different learning styles while us homeschooling
moms don't. That struck me as silly. A classroom, with a little desk
that the child has to sit in almost all day, is such a limited way to
learn. If you get a kinesthetic learner *out* of that awful desk, then
learning can be so much better. Get kids out of a classroom and into a
wider world and they can be exposed to so much more!
I'll stop ranting, now, as I know it isn't very persuasive.
Betsy
divided into
learning styles and it's pretty difficult to shut out the other senses. **
Right.
One of the reasons I'm on a rampage about learning styles is that
someone shared with this list a pompous column written by a teacher
about everything a trained teacher can provide to a student that us
pitiful, untrained parents can't (in the teacher's opinion).
Anyway, I didn't pull all my objections together and write to her, so
they are all crashing around in my head still.
One of the most provocative claims that she made was that she had
"training" to teach to different learning styles while us homeschooling
moms don't. That struck me as silly. A classroom, with a little desk
that the child has to sit in almost all day, is such a limited way to
learn. If you get a kinesthetic learner *out* of that awful desk, then
learning can be so much better. Get kids out of a classroom and into a
wider world and they can be exposed to so much more!
I'll stop ranting, now, as I know it isn't very persuasive.
Betsy
Kelly Lenhart
<<Presenting him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't
helpful--he
needs HIS way.>>
<Isn't helpful to you or to him?>
In all fairness, yes, to me. But ultimately to him as well. Understanding
what he needed at that moment lowered my stress level in dealing with him.
THEN I was able to present the information that he wanted in the way he was
asking for it.
The original question Sorcha asked was does our learning style affect how we
interact with our children. I presented an example of where it did---my
assumptions about reading vs questioning to gain information were not
correct with this little boy. Those assumptions are largely based on MY
learning style. Understanding that there are other ways to get info helped
me help him. And just plain made the afternoon more fun for all of us.
ways. In this example it helps me when I react to a child who is requesting
information in a way that works for him.
The point wasn't where the term came from but how I was using it. If it's
ok to use a textbook if you use it to your own purposes, why isn't it ok to
use a definition that comes from "school" if you use it to apply to life?
use of any and all bits of information, not just school's small set. "
So if this is true, than it should be reasonable to use school's set so long
as it is helpful and not restrictive. So long as you don't put the learning
in a box, but apply it to real life.
Well, that's what I was doing. Taking a definition and applying it to my
own reactions to a real living boy.
I can see where I wasn't clear about what happened and that I was applying
things to just that moment and not some grand scheme of learning.. Of
course you present info in tons of ways, of course you present it in the way
it's requested. But those terms helped me to do it in a way that made
everyone happier YESTERDAY. I took something from a source and used it in
another application. They were playing Zelda, for Gaia's sake. -grin-
Kelly
helpful--he
needs HIS way.>>
<Isn't helpful to you or to him?>
In all fairness, yes, to me. But ultimately to him as well. Understanding
what he needed at that moment lowered my stress level in dealing with him.
THEN I was able to present the information that he wanted in the way he was
asking for it.
The original question Sorcha asked was does our learning style affect how we
interact with our children. I presented an example of where it did---my
assumptions about reading vs questioning to gain information were not
correct with this little boy. Those assumptions are largely based on MY
learning style. Understanding that there are other ways to get info helped
me help him. And just plain made the afternoon more fun for all of us.
>Those terms have to do with formal presentation of curriculum, not withPerhaps they were coined for that purpose, but I find them useful in other
>living openly in the real world.
ways. In this example it helps me when I react to a child who is requesting
information in a way that works for him.
The point wasn't where the term came from but how I was using it. If it's
ok to use a textbook if you use it to your own purposes, why isn't it ok to
use a definition that comes from "school" if you use it to apply to life?
>This might help people who think I'm babbling and not making any usefulInteresting and helpful article. Let me quote it: " Unschooling allows free
>point. It's a little article called "Disposable Checklists for Parents":
use of any and all bits of information, not just school's small set. "
So if this is true, than it should be reasonable to use school's set so long
as it is helpful and not restrictive. So long as you don't put the learning
in a box, but apply it to real life.
Well, that's what I was doing. Taking a definition and applying it to my
own reactions to a real living boy.
I can see where I wasn't clear about what happened and that I was applying
things to just that moment and not some grand scheme of learning.. Of
course you present info in tons of ways, of course you present it in the way
it's requested. But those terms helped me to do it in a way that made
everyone happier YESTERDAY. I took something from a source and used it in
another application. They were playing Zelda, for Gaia's sake. -grin-
Kelly
Kelly Lenhart
>But, clearly, he can ask for what he needs. We don't have to know ourAnd if my uneducated assumptions about learning make me think that a kid who
>kids "styles", we can just keep giving them what they ask for, because
>that's what they need.
>Betsy
asks and asks and asks is just being a twerp and I stop answering him
because it annoys me, then.....
Sure, that's my problem, but if I've found a way to help me understand how
other people work so that I can interact with them better...
Kelly
Kelly Lenhart
>One of the most provocative claims that she made was that she hadJust silly?? I'm offended.
>"training" to teach to different learning styles while us homeschooling
>moms don't. That struck me as silly.
I don't have any problem with the definitions of the styles. I have a
problem with someone saying that they are this rarified thing that only
"trained" teachers can understand and utilitze.
Sure, if you have kids in "A classroom, with a little desk
that the child has to sit in almost all day, is such a limited way to
learn." And that's why "trained" teachers need to learn this stuff.
I was saying that it can be helpful THE OTHER WAY round. If you have a kid
who is out there learning in his or her own way and you are having conflict
with it (for whatever reason--you need to deschool yourself more, you have
your own style which makes it tough, whatever) the styles can help you relax
and be with your kid better.
Kelly
(who really would ream out someone who said that only a "trained" teacher
can understand and use this stuff. ANd my mom IS a teacher.)
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/03 1:17:16 PM, mina@... writes:
<< And if my uneducated assumptions about learning make me think that a kid
who
asks and asks and asks is just being a twerp and I stop answering him
because it annoys me, then..... >>
But then you just wouldn't be a good candidate for unschooling.
It still doesn't require knowing or caring anything about learning styles to
be a good unschooling parent. Just caring about listening to your child and
being observant and offering everything in the world you can!
Sandra
<< And if my uneducated assumptions about learning make me think that a kid
who
asks and asks and asks is just being a twerp and I stop answering him
because it annoys me, then..... >>
But then you just wouldn't be a good candidate for unschooling.
It still doesn't require knowing or caring anything about learning styles to
be a good unschooling parent. Just caring about listening to your child and
being observant and offering everything in the world you can!
Sandra
Kris
I think this proves the point that "learning styles" is about the "teacher",
not the child. This is what is so ideal about unschooling, the focus is on
the child and trusting their ability to learn. I don't need to understand
"why" they are asking, or touching or staring off into space, not if I trust
them to learn.
My kids, with different world views, are learning. If I am focused on them
and available I will give them what they ask for. I remind myself all the
time that if I'm frustrated with them then I'm probably trying to bend them
into doing and seeing things my way.
Kris
<<Kid makes me CRAZY! He's a doll, but it can be very frustrating for me to
deal with his questions. For the longest time I didn't understand *why* he
was always asking questions, frequently the same one over and over.
Understanding his learning style has changed how I react to him. Presenting
him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't helpful--he
needs HIS way.
Kelly>>
not the child. This is what is so ideal about unschooling, the focus is on
the child and trusting their ability to learn. I don't need to understand
"why" they are asking, or touching or staring off into space, not if I trust
them to learn.
My kids, with different world views, are learning. If I am focused on them
and available I will give them what they ask for. I remind myself all the
time that if I'm frustrated with them then I'm probably trying to bend them
into doing and seeing things my way.
Kris
<<Kid makes me CRAZY! He's a doll, but it can be very frustrating for me to
deal with his questions. For the longest time I didn't understand *why* he
was always asking questions, frequently the same one over and over.
Understanding his learning style has changed how I react to him. Presenting
him with a bunch of different ways to get the answers isn't helpful--he
needs HIS way.
Kelly>>
Kris
<<Unless a parent is "teaching" in some schooly fashion, how could she fail
to
present or facilitate the informational moment in a way that would fit her
child's "learning style"?>>
Exactly. When my kids ask questions I see it as a conversation, not a
"teaching" moment. If they are trying to understand a concept I don't just
talk at them, I have a conversation with them. Because we are talking
together I know whether they are understanding or not. Sometimes words are
enough, sometimes I draw a picture, pull out a book or look for info on the
internet.
Isn't it like ANY conversation? If an adult friend isn't able to picture
what I'm talking about I keep using different examples, pictures,
illustrations, whatever. The important thing is, they intitiated the
conversation with their interest and we are both involved in the exploration
of the subject.
Kris
to
present or facilitate the informational moment in a way that would fit her
child's "learning style"?>>
Exactly. When my kids ask questions I see it as a conversation, not a
"teaching" moment. If they are trying to understand a concept I don't just
talk at them, I have a conversation with them. Because we are talking
together I know whether they are understanding or not. Sometimes words are
enough, sometimes I draw a picture, pull out a book or look for info on the
internet.
Isn't it like ANY conversation? If an adult friend isn't able to picture
what I'm talking about I keep using different examples, pictures,
illustrations, whatever. The important thing is, they intitiated the
conversation with their interest and we are both involved in the exploration
of the subject.
Kris
Kelli Traaseth
----- Original Message -----
To: <[email protected]>
**Of
course you present info in tons of ways, of course you present it in the
way
it's requested. **
I'm just wondering if I'm missing something in that I don't "present"
things. We just do them. The whole--live life thing, right?
I don't mean this in a picky way or anything.
I just felt that when I stopped thinking about our life in that way I really
started getting unschooling.
Am I off in this???? Or is it just a terminology thing?
Kelli
sablehs
--- In [email protected], "Kris" <louisa@b...> wrote:
how to communicate with them.
I notice as they explore and play they are learning in ALL ways. Not
only in the way they are strong, but as they explore and grow, I see
them strengthening the places they are a bit weaker too.
So unschooling is all around, all encompassing learning. :-)
Tracy
>picture
> Isn't it like ANY conversation? If an adult friend isn't able to
> what I'm talking about I keep using different examples, pictures,the
> illustrations, whatever. The important thing is, they intitiated
> conversation with their interest and we are both involved in theexploration
> of the subject.That's how I "see" it. Knowing each child inside and out and knowing
>
> Kris
how to communicate with them.
I notice as they explore and play they are learning in ALL ways. Not
only in the way they are strong, but as they explore and grow, I see
them strengthening the places they are a bit weaker too.
So unschooling is all around, all encompassing learning. :-)
Tracy
Betsy
**>One of the most provocative claims that she made was that she had
Hey, Kelly --
It's my "arguing style" -- I'm a laugher and a scoffer. Just so you
know. <G> I'm only a "scathing name-caller" when really provoked. <gg>
**I was saying that it can be helpful THE OTHER WAY round. If you have
a kid who is out there learning in his or her own way and you are having
conflict with it (for whatever reason--you need to deschool yourself
more, you have your own style which makes it tough, whatever) the styles
can help you relax and be with your kid better.**
Okay, I get it. (I was seeing it the other way 'round before.)
Deschooling and accepting varied forms of learning can make one a better
unschooler. Very true. I guess I was assuming that unschoolers had
reached a deschooled nirvana from the get go.<g> Unschoolers who offer
a fairly diverse menu of stuff to their kids can be confident that their
kids will self-select things that suits themselves and their styles.
That was my hypothesis.
My thinking was, if our kids are interested in lizards we get them
lizards and if our kids are interested in music we help them make music
and if our kids are interested in videos we get the kid videos. No
unschooled "visual learner" is likely to be deprived of visual learning
experiences. (Same for auditory and kinesthetic learners.) Unless we
have a really tight budget and a severely stripped-down life, our kids
are going to have access to all kinds of stuff and all kinds of
experiences. And most real life experiences, like taking a nature walk,
have visual, auditory and kinesthetic components. <g> Now a worksheet
about kids taking a nature walk might not offer much to the auditory or
kinesthetic learner. But real experiences are firing on all cylinders.
(Yes, bizarre metaphors are my "preferred writing style". <g>)
Betsy
PS
**(who really would ream out someone who said that only a "trained" teacher
can understand and use this stuff. ANd my mom IS a teacher.)**
My dh is a teacher who struggles to make his lessons more interesting
for the more kinesthetic kids. It's hard to come up with good ideas
that work in the classroom. His textbooks have lesson suggestions that
are SO LAME! Like suggesting that a junior high school student do an
interpretive dance to act out a story. It's a valid way to expand on
the story, but I FEAR the kind of mockery that might be generated in the audience.
>"training" to teach to different learning styles while us homeschoolingJust silly?? I'm offended.**
>moms don't. That struck me as silly.
Hey, Kelly --
It's my "arguing style" -- I'm a laugher and a scoffer. Just so you
know. <G> I'm only a "scathing name-caller" when really provoked. <gg>
**I was saying that it can be helpful THE OTHER WAY round. If you have
a kid who is out there learning in his or her own way and you are having
conflict with it (for whatever reason--you need to deschool yourself
more, you have your own style which makes it tough, whatever) the styles
can help you relax and be with your kid better.**
Okay, I get it. (I was seeing it the other way 'round before.)
Deschooling and accepting varied forms of learning can make one a better
unschooler. Very true. I guess I was assuming that unschoolers had
reached a deschooled nirvana from the get go.<g> Unschoolers who offer
a fairly diverse menu of stuff to their kids can be confident that their
kids will self-select things that suits themselves and their styles.
That was my hypothesis.
My thinking was, if our kids are interested in lizards we get them
lizards and if our kids are interested in music we help them make music
and if our kids are interested in videos we get the kid videos. No
unschooled "visual learner" is likely to be deprived of visual learning
experiences. (Same for auditory and kinesthetic learners.) Unless we
have a really tight budget and a severely stripped-down life, our kids
are going to have access to all kinds of stuff and all kinds of
experiences. And most real life experiences, like taking a nature walk,
have visual, auditory and kinesthetic components. <g> Now a worksheet
about kids taking a nature walk might not offer much to the auditory or
kinesthetic learner. But real experiences are firing on all cylinders.
(Yes, bizarre metaphors are my "preferred writing style". <g>)
Betsy
PS
**(who really would ream out someone who said that only a "trained" teacher
can understand and use this stuff. ANd my mom IS a teacher.)**
My dh is a teacher who struggles to make his lessons more interesting
for the more kinesthetic kids. It's hard to come up with good ideas
that work in the classroom. His textbooks have lesson suggestions that
are SO LAME! Like suggesting that a junior high school student do an
interpretive dance to act out a story. It's a valid way to expand on
the story, but I FEAR the kind of mockery that might be generated in the audience.
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/03 4:26:02 PM, louisa@... writes:
<< Isn't it like ANY conversation? If an adult friend isn't able to picture
what I'm talking about I keep using different examples, pictures,
illustrations, whatever. The important thing is, they intitiated the
conversation with their interest and we are both involved in the exploration
of the subject. >>
Good point. I end up helping my friends a lot of times, but I don't think
about their learning styles. When I ask them to help me do something or
learn something, whether they come over or talk me through or lend me a book
depends more on what think I'm needing to know than what they think MY
learning style is.
Probably it's buzz-word to remind teachers that sitting in rows reading and
writing isn't the right way to do it. To mix it up.
Sandra
<< Isn't it like ANY conversation? If an adult friend isn't able to picture
what I'm talking about I keep using different examples, pictures,
illustrations, whatever. The important thing is, they intitiated the
conversation with their interest and we are both involved in the exploration
of the subject. >>
Good point. I end up helping my friends a lot of times, but I don't think
about their learning styles. When I ask them to help me do something or
learn something, whether they come over or talk me through or lend me a book
depends more on what think I'm needing to know than what they think MY
learning style is.
Probably it's buzz-word to remind teachers that sitting in rows reading and
writing isn't the right way to do it. To mix it up.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/03 4:37:18 PM, tktraas@... writes:
<< Am I off in this???? Or is it just a terminology thing? >>
Terminology. <g>
I presented some information to my husband this morning. It was just a
conversation, but I did think about how to word it, and at what point in the
conversation so it didn't irritate him, so it had the smoothest and best
effect. Maybe that kind of "presentation."
Kirby's learning to drive. I don't rag on him about every single thing. If
he does the same odd thing three times or so, I'll try to present some
information to him in such a way that he'll listen and remember. If I just
have a running commentary on every motion, he'll stop listening. So as long
as we're safe, I try to be positive or quiet.
I have yelled "STOP!" twice. Not my best presentation moments! <g>
Sandra
<< Am I off in this???? Or is it just a terminology thing? >>
Terminology. <g>
I presented some information to my husband this morning. It was just a
conversation, but I did think about how to word it, and at what point in the
conversation so it didn't irritate him, so it had the smoothest and best
effect. Maybe that kind of "presentation."
Kirby's learning to drive. I don't rag on him about every single thing. If
he does the same odd thing three times or so, I'll try to present some
information to him in such a way that he'll listen and remember. If I just
have a running commentary on every motion, he'll stop listening. So as long
as we're safe, I try to be positive or quiet.
I have yelled "STOP!" twice. Not my best presentation moments! <g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/03 5:43:45 PM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<< But real experiences are firing on all cylinders.
(Yes, bizarre metaphors are my "preferred writing style". <g>)
Sandra
<< But real experiences are firing on all cylinders.
(Yes, bizarre metaphors are my "preferred writing style". <g>)
>>I like that.
Sandra
Heidi
>interesting
> My dh is a teacher who struggles to make his lessons more
> for the more kinesthetic kids. It's hard to come up with good ideasthat
> that work in the classroom. His textbooks have lesson suggestions
> are SO LAME! Like suggesting that a junior high school student doan
> interpretive dance to act out a story. It's a valid way to expandon
> the story, but I FEAR the kind of mockery that might be generatedin the audience.
ROFLOL this is what happens when they cram lots of kids into one
classroom, hand the poor hapless teacher one curriculum, and expect
something from them and their students! LOL But I also immediately
thought of the stupid lesson extensions in the K12 curriculum, which
had all of us rolling our eyes, even inside the safety of the family.
And without the extensions, all it is is another (quite high quality)
fill in the blanks type curriculum.
Olga
Now do not throw any old text books at me <g>, but I recieved my
degree in education. For my short lived career I worked with
preschool accredidation and such. However, in college we had a class
that touched on each "subject", how to teach math, reading, language
arts, etc. One class for special needs, ONE! All those disorders in
one short semester with maybe 10-20 hours visitation in schools.
Special needs meaning gifted to extremely mentally retarded. Yeah, I
am sure I absorbed all that to be a great help to my future students.
There were no classes in learning styles. I rememeber hearing it, I
am sure I read it. In no way, not in one class, not in one
interneship did we ever discuss how to cover all the diverse learning
styles. We never had to come up with one lesson plan that could cover
even half. It was part of the rhetoric in your history of education
and that was that. Certainly, school has done a slightly better job
of including some of the different learning styles in the primary
grades (if you have the right teacher <I am rolling my eyes here,
because you know what the chances are>) Certainly, primary grades
were more slightly fun than I had, with learning centers and such
although it gets worse the older you get. However, I would like to
glimpse at this particular teacher's lesson plans and see her using
all the styles <G>.
Whenever I mention I plan to homeschool (most people I speak to would
not know the difference between unschool and homeschool) they tell me
how *easy* it will be for me as I am a teacher. They are just set on
this. It is difficult for anyone I know to think they can do this
simply because I have a degree which says I am a teacher. You know
what, maybe I am a little more aware of some questions to ask or
where resources are or some good children's literature than a brand
new PARENT. Maybe, I had a little less research to read in some
areas. Who knows. But beyond that, it is of little help. In fact,
it just mean more deschooling for me <sigh>.
So for those of you who ever feel that maybe some teacher out there
could do it better or provide more diverse experiences or use all
those varying learning styles, let me set the record straight. NO
WAY! They were not trained to do it, it is as simple as that. And
if you have a special needs child than there is not even need for a
discussion!
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], "Kelly Lenhart"
<mina@m...> wrote:
degree in education. For my short lived career I worked with
preschool accredidation and such. However, in college we had a class
that touched on each "subject", how to teach math, reading, language
arts, etc. One class for special needs, ONE! All those disorders in
one short semester with maybe 10-20 hours visitation in schools.
Special needs meaning gifted to extremely mentally retarded. Yeah, I
am sure I absorbed all that to be a great help to my future students.
There were no classes in learning styles. I rememeber hearing it, I
am sure I read it. In no way, not in one class, not in one
interneship did we ever discuss how to cover all the diverse learning
styles. We never had to come up with one lesson plan that could cover
even half. It was part of the rhetoric in your history of education
and that was that. Certainly, school has done a slightly better job
of including some of the different learning styles in the primary
grades (if you have the right teacher <I am rolling my eyes here,
because you know what the chances are>) Certainly, primary grades
were more slightly fun than I had, with learning centers and such
although it gets worse the older you get. However, I would like to
glimpse at this particular teacher's lesson plans and see her using
all the styles <G>.
Whenever I mention I plan to homeschool (most people I speak to would
not know the difference between unschool and homeschool) they tell me
how *easy* it will be for me as I am a teacher. They are just set on
this. It is difficult for anyone I know to think they can do this
simply because I have a degree which says I am a teacher. You know
what, maybe I am a little more aware of some questions to ask or
where resources are or some good children's literature than a brand
new PARENT. Maybe, I had a little less research to read in some
areas. Who knows. But beyond that, it is of little help. In fact,
it just mean more deschooling for me <sigh>.
So for those of you who ever feel that maybe some teacher out there
could do it better or provide more diverse experiences or use all
those varying learning styles, let me set the record straight. NO
WAY! They were not trained to do it, it is as simple as that. And
if you have a special needs child than there is not even need for a
discussion!
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], "Kelly Lenhart"
<mina@m...> wrote:
> >One of the most provocative claims that she made was that she hadhomeschooling
> >"training" to teach to different learning styles while us
> >moms don't. That struck me as silly.have a
>
> Just silly?? I'm offended.
>
> I don't have any problem with the definitions of the styles. I
> problem with someone saying that they are this rarified thing thatonly
> "trained" teachers can understand and utilitze.to
>
> Sure, if you have kids in "A classroom, with a little desk
> that the child has to sit in almost all day, is such a limited way
> learn." And that's why "trained" teachers need to learn this stuff.have a kid
>
> I was saying that it can be helpful THE OTHER WAY round. If you
> who is out there learning in his or her own way and you are havingconflict
> with it (for whatever reason--you need to deschool yourself more,you have
> your own style which makes it tough, whatever) the styles can helpyou relax
> and be with your kid better.teacher
>
> Kelly
> (who really would ream out someone who said that only a "trained"
> can understand and use this stuff. ANd my mom IS a teacher.)
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/03 7:30:57 PM, britcontoo@... writes:
<< Whenever I mention I plan to homeschool (most people I speak to would
not know the difference between unschool and homeschool) they tell me
how *easy* it will be for me as I am a teacher. >>
If they're not homeschoolers, there IS no difference. It's all internal
terminology, I think. I don't think it does ANY good to tell anyone outside
of the [as if] homeschooling community [as it were] that you're
"unschooling."
But I get the same "Oh, well of course YOU can homeschool. You used to be a
TEAcher.
The best tool I have from having been a teacher is the certain knowledge that
kids at any age run the full gamut of ability. With seventh graders, some
can't read and some read as well as any adult. With ninth graders, some hate
to write and can hardly construct a sentence, while some are writing parodies
in verse with handwriting they could make a living addressing wedding
invitations with.
And I know from my own growing up, from my friends, and from kids I knew
while teaching, that MOST of what kids know about history and geography and
science, they learned outside of school, not in. The kids who are whizes at
trivia and details are learning that stuff for fun, elsewhere.
So I could be totally relaxed from the beginning about "grade level"
questions.
Sandra
<< Whenever I mention I plan to homeschool (most people I speak to would
not know the difference between unschool and homeschool) they tell me
how *easy* it will be for me as I am a teacher. >>
If they're not homeschoolers, there IS no difference. It's all internal
terminology, I think. I don't think it does ANY good to tell anyone outside
of the [as if] homeschooling community [as it were] that you're
"unschooling."
But I get the same "Oh, well of course YOU can homeschool. You used to be a
TEAcher.
The best tool I have from having been a teacher is the certain knowledge that
kids at any age run the full gamut of ability. With seventh graders, some
can't read and some read as well as any adult. With ninth graders, some hate
to write and can hardly construct a sentence, while some are writing parodies
in verse with handwriting they could make a living addressing wedding
invitations with.
And I know from my own growing up, from my friends, and from kids I knew
while teaching, that MOST of what kids know about history and geography and
science, they learned outside of school, not in. The kids who are whizes at
trivia and details are learning that stuff for fun, elsewhere.
So I could be totally relaxed from the beginning about "grade level"
questions.
Sandra
Stephanie Elms
> Whenever I mention I plan to homeschool (most people I speak to wouldMy dh's first reaction to my suggestion that we homeschool was "But you are not
> not know the difference between unschool and homeschool) they tell me
> how *easy* it will be for me as I am a teacher. They are just set on
> this.
a teacher, how will you know what to do". I had to remind him that we were talking
about *kindergarten* here. Now he doesn't give me a hard time but it was kind of
funny.
I have also had people ask if I actually was allowed to do that, if the schools gave
me the books to use and most often I get the one about how they could never get their
kids to do their work during the day (which is my cue to start talking about how we
don't do workbooks/lessons etc which is when they start looking at me like I have
horns coming out of my head...)
Stephanie E.
Kelly Lenhart
<< And if my uneducated assumptions about learning make me think that a kid
who asks and asks and asks is just being a twerp and I stop answering him
because it annoys me, then..... >>
questions. But since the whole point was that I WAS changing....-sigh-
it helped be more open and observant.
So, because the knowledge I used came from a schooly source I shouldn't have
used it and kept being annoyed? That doesn't make sense.
Kelly
who asks and asks and asks is just being a twerp and I stop answering him
because it annoys me, then..... >>
>But then you just wouldn't be a good candidate for unschooling.Agreed **IF** I didn't do things to change how I looked at the child's
questions. But since the whole point was that I WAS changing....-sigh-
>It still doesn't require knowing or caring anything about learning stylesto
>be a good unschooling parent. Just caring about listening to your childand
>being observant and offering everything in the world you can!No, of course it doesn't. Never said it did. Just said that in this case
it helped be more open and observant.
So, because the knowledge I used came from a schooly source I shouldn't have
used it and kept being annoyed? That doesn't make sense.
Kelly
sorcha_aisling
>>>I get the one about how they could never get theirJust yesterday I was browsing a homeschooling message board and the
> kids to do their work during the day<<<
discussion was about how to make them to the work. One woman said
she gives them each ten nickels in the morning. Each time they
whine, complain, or otherwise misbehave, they give her back one
nickel. If they have any left at the end of the day, that's their
*allowance*. If they run out of nickels, then no matter what time of
day, their day is over. It's a peanut butter sandwich for dinner and
straight to bed until the next morning.
I don't think she was kidding.
Sorcha
Kelly Lenhart
>I think this proves the point that "learning styles" is about the"teacher",
>not the child.In this case that is absolutely true. And was completely my point. The
original question was about how our learning styles affect how we deal with
our kids. I was answering giving an example of just that.
>I remind myself all theAnd I was trying to explain that I was realizing that this was exactly what
>time that if I'm frustrated with them then I'm probably trying to bend them
>into doing and seeing things my way.
I had been doing. The fact that I used a method or definition that stikes
some as too "schooly" seems to make my realization invalid.
Kelly
Kelly Lenhart
>I presented some information to my husband this morning. It was just athe
>conversation, but I did think about how to word it, and at what point in
>conversation so it didn't irritate him, so it had the smoothest and bestAh, yes, that was exactly how I meant it. Not, "Here I am lecturing
>effect. Maybe that kind of "presentation."
(presenting) information to the this seven year old about Zelda." I meant,
"We are playing and watching and having fun and he's asking me questions and
I'm answering (presenting information) about the game."
In thinking about the reactions to my example, I've been wondering about
examples like talking to one's spouse about things. How information is
presented is a BIG issue in my marriage. Very different styles and
assumptions. If I can remember better how he copes with situations, things
go better. If I try and "present" it the way *I* would want it.....ugh,
don't ask.
Kelly
Kelly Lenhart
>My dh's first reaction to my suggestion that we homeschool was "But you arenot
>a teacher, how will you know what to do".My favorite question/assumption these days is the "Well, how long can you do
that? He'll have to go to high school, right?"
Uhm, no.
Kelly
jmcseals SEALS
<<<I don't think she was kidding.>>>
Probably not. The irritating friend I keep on board made her daughter do
push-ups when she whines about her school work. Thankfully, for her
daughter's sake, they no longer homeschool. She told me tonight that "I
just don't get it because I don't care what my kids do because I'm so
relaxed." Woah Momma! The train came roaring in on that one! Yeah, next
time my kids whine, I think I'll make them do push-ups cause that will
really show them! Good heavens, puuulease!
Jennifer, the relaxed mother who could give a rats ass about her kids cause
I'm so busy laying around on the couch eatin' bon bons. Ha! Makes me
wonder why she comes to ME for advice! Oh yeah, because she wonders how in
the world my kids are so well behaved, smart and eager to learn without me
'making' them do their schoolwork. Should I tell her to lay on the couch
eating bon bons??? LOL I'm beginning to think this is an unhealthy
relationship for me. <bg> (I'm being totally sarcastic. I've never even
HAD a bon bon! They were cheetoes, dangit!) LOL Ok, since I'm sitting here
amusing *myself*, I'll shut up. ;p
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
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Probably not. The irritating friend I keep on board made her daughter do
push-ups when she whines about her school work. Thankfully, for her
daughter's sake, they no longer homeschool. She told me tonight that "I
just don't get it because I don't care what my kids do because I'm so
relaxed." Woah Momma! The train came roaring in on that one! Yeah, next
time my kids whine, I think I'll make them do push-ups cause that will
really show them! Good heavens, puuulease!
Jennifer, the relaxed mother who could give a rats ass about her kids cause
I'm so busy laying around on the couch eatin' bon bons. Ha! Makes me
wonder why she comes to ME for advice! Oh yeah, because she wonders how in
the world my kids are so well behaved, smart and eager to learn without me
'making' them do their schoolwork. Should I tell her to lay on the couch
eating bon bons??? LOL I'm beginning to think this is an unhealthy
relationship for me. <bg> (I'm being totally sarcastic. I've never even
HAD a bon bon! They were cheetoes, dangit!) LOL Ok, since I'm sitting here
amusing *myself*, I'll shut up. ;p
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy in MS
oo that sounds awful. Reminds me of an episode I witnessed in Wendy's
hamburgers several weeks ago. There was a woman with about 4 children there
she finished her lunch and said "okay, put your food away time for your
spelling test." Well, I figured it they didn't do well because she fussed
(loudly) at them the whole time about how their parents paid her to help
them (on and on) and they weren't trying or concentrating (trying to guilt
them into spelling, I guess). I was watching her when I heard her say "Why
are you so..." to one of the kids. I think I must have rose in my chair or
something because she stopped at the word "so" to look over at me. I dont'
know what I would have done if she did finish that sentence. I said nothing
because I didn't want to embarrass dh and the kids (myself I don't really
care anymore) and I almost never interfere with other people living their
lives unless they invite me too, but I really felt that was an invitation to
show this lady to herself. But I did nothing, and now wonder if I should
have made some small comment.
I wouldn't have spelled correctly either if she was "teaching" me.
Tammy T.
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, May 08, 2003 23:41:28
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: learning styles and unschooling
discussion was about how to make them to the work. One woman said
she gives them each ten nickels in the morning. Each time they
whine, complain, or otherwise misbehave, they give her back one
nickel. If they have any left at the end of the day, that's their
*allowance*. If they run out of nickels, then no matter what time of
day, their day is over. It's a peanut butter sandwich for dinner and
straight to bed until the next morning.
I don't think she was kidding.
Sorcha
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hamburgers several weeks ago. There was a woman with about 4 children there
she finished her lunch and said "okay, put your food away time for your
spelling test." Well, I figured it they didn't do well because she fussed
(loudly) at them the whole time about how their parents paid her to help
them (on and on) and they weren't trying or concentrating (trying to guilt
them into spelling, I guess). I was watching her when I heard her say "Why
are you so..." to one of the kids. I think I must have rose in my chair or
something because she stopped at the word "so" to look over at me. I dont'
know what I would have done if she did finish that sentence. I said nothing
because I didn't want to embarrass dh and the kids (myself I don't really
care anymore) and I almost never interfere with other people living their
lives unless they invite me too, but I really felt that was an invitation to
show this lady to herself. But I did nothing, and now wonder if I should
have made some small comment.
I wouldn't have spelled correctly either if she was "teaching" me.
Tammy T.
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, May 08, 2003 23:41:28
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: learning styles and unschooling
>>>I get the one about how they could never get theirJust yesterday I was browsing a homeschooling message board and the
> kids to do their work during the day<<<
discussion was about how to make them to the work. One woman said
she gives them each ten nickels in the morning. Each time they
whine, complain, or otherwise misbehave, they give her back one
nickel. If they have any left at the end of the day, that's their
*allowance*. If they run out of nickels, then no matter what time of
day, their day is over. It's a peanut butter sandwich for dinner and
straight to bed until the next morning.
I don't think she was kidding.
Sorcha
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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No Late Fees & Free Shipping.
Try Netflix for FREE!
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---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
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[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/03 11:00:27 PM, jmcseals@... writes:
<< The irritating friend I keep on board made her daughter do
push-ups when she whines about her school work. >>
Well, those are the natural consequences of homeschooling at that house!
-=I'm beginning to think this is an unhealthy
relationship for me. <bg> (I'm being totally sarcastic. I've never even
HAD a bon bon! -=-
Well, about the bon bons, but maybe it's really truly not healthy.
There have been a couple of times I've had a quickie effect by telling
another mom that it really wounds my soul to hear what she's doing to her
kids, and I'd rather we change the subject. Or something to that effect.
Sandra
<< The irritating friend I keep on board made her daughter do
push-ups when she whines about her school work. >>
Well, those are the natural consequences of homeschooling at that house!
-=I'm beginning to think this is an unhealthy
relationship for me. <bg> (I'm being totally sarcastic. I've never even
HAD a bon bon! -=-
Well, about the bon bons, but maybe it's really truly not healthy.
There have been a couple of times I've had a quickie effect by telling
another mom that it really wounds my soul to hear what she's doing to her
kids, and I'd rather we change the subject. Or something to that effect.
Sandra