[email protected]

Hello All!

My name is Kim and I reside here in Ohio with my husband Ralph and two boys,
Justin (11) and Joel (9). We have been "homeschooling" for a bit over a year
now. My understandable frustration with the public school system led me to
take the boys out of an institution and bring them home to be raised by their
family.

I have had a year of great frustration and stress. Mainly because I keep
falling into the "school at home trap". My natural instincts do lead me to
unschooling (always have I guess), but my lack of self-confidence and
brainwash from the system through me back into scope and sequence type
studies. No, I have not yet relaxed. when I do, I find that all of us are
much happier. Then I freak out and start looking to structure our day
more!!!! I need some balance here and to make a solid commitment to
believing my children are intelligent enough to figure it out.

On to my questions... Since I have just started a year ago, and Justin is 11,
is it wise to unschool him at this point? Soon school transcripts and
records for college will come into play, how do I manage this if I am truly
unschooling? I have noticed that my boys backslide, lose the knowledge they
previously displayed, when we slack off and become more informal. This
concerns me greatly, can anyone help me with this???? When the children are
doing close to nothing (usually not a problem with Justin), for quite some
time, how do you manage that at my boys' ages? All those books on the shelf
that they never touch, how do you get them interested, or do I just keep
dusting?!

I apologize for sounding so ignorant... it is quite embarassing in fact. But
I truly need the help and advice of "experienced" unschoolers who have had
several years under their belts watching their children grow and trusting
their children. I want to somewhat settle into a way of living where I am
not constantly second guessing myself, irritating my children, feeling
totally inadequate, and spending way too much money on things that don't
belong in my home! HELP!!!!!!!!!!

I am looking forward to networking with you all and hearing your advice on my
matters of concern.

Red in the Face,
Kim

B & T Simpson

->
>Hello All!
>
>My name is Kim and I reside here in Ohio with my husband Ralph and two
boys,
>Justin (11) and Joel (9). We have been "homeschooling" for a bit over a
year
>now. My understandable frustration with the public school system led me to
>take the boys out of an institution and bring them home to be raised by
their
>family.>>>>>>>


Kim, I also live in Ohio, am raising four children 10mos-12yrs, and also
face the same fears as you, we have just begun the homeschooling adventure
in Feb of this year with our oldest, I plan to do the same with the others
in the fall and am very excited about it, I plan to unschool all the way, I
keep hearing things via the web about how wonderful children do when left to
pursue their interests! not ours. hang in there, ask lots of questions, and
know your children will figure it out, and remember to deschool!
I am holding onto the words of others that deschooling needs to take place
before they fall in love with learning! I am near canton are you anywhere
near?
Tanya
>
>

Mowery Family

>>>On to my questions... Since I have just started a year ago, and Justin is 11,
is it wise to unschool him at this point?<<<

YES!!!

>>>Soon school transcripts and
records for college will come into play, how do I manage this if I am truly
unschooling? I have noticed that my boys backslide, lose the knowledge they
previously displayed, when we slack off and become more informal. This
concerns me greatly, can anyone help me with this????<<<


School transcripts are not as difficult as they sound. Keep a journal, take pictures of vacations, park days, hikes, gardens in the yard and projects the kids make. Consider a trip to Cedar Point a physics outing <g>. Put these in a 3 ring binder, and when the time comes that you need to "make" it look formal, you will have it all together and can add "educanese" headers.

A few months ago, I believe it was the Nov/Dec issue of HEM, there was a great article on compliling records, I would recommend you check that article out. I could try to describe it, but would do it no justice.

>>>>> When the children are
doing close to nothing (usually not a problem with Justin), for quite some
time, how do you manage that at my boys' ages? All those books on the shelf
that they never touch, how do you get them interested, or do I just keep
dusting?!<<<<


They may or may not be doing nothing, don't stress on that. Give them time and space, and they will come through. Keep the books and materials handy (yes, dust them if you wish <g>), they may suprise you one day with their interests.

Most importantly, find something that interests YOU, follow your bliss, the boys will then learn by modeling that it is OK to do what you like. The learning happens, all the time.


>>>I apologize for sounding so ignorant... it is quite embarrassing in fact.<<<


NEVER apologize for asking for help, that is why we are all here. Believe you me, we have ALL asked these questions before. We all learn from each other :)

Sincerely,

Karen Mowery
---------------
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.
-Henry David Thoreau

[email protected]

Kim,
I live in Ohio, too. Bless your heart. Isn't it terrible what p.s.
does to our minds?! I read that for every year in ps, that's how many years
it takes to de-school.
I really think that school is evil. They tell you what to do, when to do it,
how to do it,
and God-forbid if you don't do it "right". It's no wonder that when we pull
our children out and "unschool" them, they don't know what to do with
themselves!
Think about everything a child learns in the first few years of their life.
Walking, talking, feeding themselves, learning how to dress themselves,
learning how to use the bathroom. I mean, when you think about it, it's
really quite unbelievable! And all this is done without teachers and schools.
Children are self-taught. And then when they're 5, we put them in school so
they can LEARN? Sheesh!!
Sorry. I get carried away. I have a 16 y.o. and a 14 y.o. and they probably
won't be done de-schooling till they leave home. I've only been
homeschooling/unschooling a little over a year. My 8 y.o. won't write.
Getting her to write a thank-you note is a big ordeal. I don't push it
anymore. 2 nights ago, as I was dozing on the couch, she decides to write her
Dad a note, asking him for money, so she could get ice-cream the next day.
The only word she asked for help was "please". She made the "2" backwards,
but I figured, in time, she'll figure it out. Anyway, the point is, she felt
a need to write, and she did! (BTW, I dated it and put it in her file so we
can show it to the certified teacher next year. LOL.) Mostly, she just plays.
As for college, I personally, have never read this book, but it's supposed to
be really good. It' called, "What about College?" by Cafi Cohen. If the
library doesn't have it, ask them to order it. Also, "The Homeschooling Book
of Answers" by Linda Dobson.
It is a spectacular book. Also, "The Unschooling Handbook: How to Use the
Whole World as your Child's Classroom" by Mary Griffith.(equally
spectacular!) Read something positive about unschooling everyday. It will
help.
I know it's hard. I see children the same age as my 8 y.o. who are learning
cursive and their multiplication tables. My 8 y.o. is still working on
printing and addition.
Just give them time to de-school and they'll come around. It's a humans
nature to learn. They will surprise you.
Hang in there!
Mary Ellen.

[email protected]

IHello!
I guess this is as good a time for my intro as any. Like others who
have expressed an inability to remember 87 names and bios/intros, I can't
possibly commit all of this to memory and can't afford the disk space to save
them all. I admit to having just deleted many intros because I knew I'd
never remember who was who. So if you delete mine, I'll understand.
I wanted to respond to Kim in Ohio's comments because they mirror
many of my own feelings but first a word about us. So far, we're the only
Californian's I've seen on this list. I'm Judy, dh is John, and we have an
only; 10-year old Mary. We took Mary out of p.s. a year ago, at which time I
took myself out, too. I was a classroom aide at our local p.s. and my
frustration with the system, combined with the lack of challenge Mary was
experiencing led to our decision to homeschool.
Like Kim in Ohio, we started out doing school at home because that's
what I knew. It's what I felt confident doing. It didn't work. As time
went on, I saw Mary's interest in things she formerly found fascinating start
to flag. She became bored. She lost interest in dance, and after 5 years of
being passionate about it, this came as a shock! I decided to stop doing
anything and let her be. That worked for about 3 months and then I started
getting antsy that I wasn't doing anything so I started pulling together
"lessons". We'd read a little history....boring. We'd look at some websites
together....boring. We'd do some Math....boring. Hmmmmm. Still not
working. More time off to deschool.
That's when I noticed an interesting thing happening. Mary would ask
to use the computer and spend HOURS writing on the word processor. Then she
asked how to use the publishing program so she could publish books. Then she
started asking if we could play a Math game. (We use Family Math). Then she
started pulling out various Art supplies and leaving them laying around all
the time. Then she asked if we could do something in her Chemistry set. It
goes on and on, but you get the idea. Right now we're in a bit of a slump
and I chalk it up to the end of the "school year".
We have plans for the summer that include performing in children's
theater, piano lessons, making a small quilt, using the solar oven Mary
built, learning how to run a small business (mine), and trying to get more
exercise. Next year, or whenever, we plan on doing lots more Art, utilizing
mentors in our community. We've decided to abandon dance for awhile and
pursue piano in its place. We'll see how our new, more relaxed stance plays
out. I envision a happier family.
Thanks for listening, and thanks for this list!
Judy in CA


n a message dated 6/1/99 7:12:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, APPLEKJF@...
writes:

> Mainly because I keep
> falling into the "school at home trap". My natural instincts do lead me
to
> unschooling (always have I guess), but my lack of self-confidence and
> brainwash from the system through me back into scope and sequence type
> studies. No, I have not yet relaxed. when I do, I find that all of us
are
> much happier. Then I freak out and start looking to structure our day
> more!!!! I need some balance here and to make a solid commitment to
> believing my children are intelligent enough to figure it out.
>

Lois Hoover

>From: APPLEKJF@...
>
>
>On to my questions... Since I have just started a year ago, and Justin is
11,
>is it wise to unschool him at this point?

I'd say it's a great time. I realized from a hsing seminar that by this age
he will be just starting to repeat everything learned in elementary years
waiting for high school to start. So with that in mind I let my now 11 yos
unschool. It was amazing. He went from being told that he was ADD and
wouldn't amount to much from the school because he would tune them out,or
because his art work was messy, or ....

Instead, he volunteered at a local retail store, waited on customers
(including operating the cash register which he loved), then he found
himself a job delivering papers. With a weekly paycheck he does his own
banking/spending/saving which helped the math alot. He then doubled his
route size, at the same time he made friends with a recluse in the
neighborhood who watched over him as he learned how to build computers. He
invested in a better computer, having installment payments, had to read
some manuals for installation, and reads cover to cover his computer
shopper catalogs. He's dealing with customers daily, and just got a call
tonight that he is going to be the areas carrier of the week for next week.
He still likes to be read to rather than read books, but he will sit down
and read somethings. He says he can't do decimals, but can handle money and
calculate taxes in his head (but he says that's different.lol).

We've also traveled quite a bit, his favorite thing is to plan our routes
and try to get us to go through larger cities so he can find all the sports
areanas. Try getting him lost on a road trip, we always avoid the highways
for the scenic route and have needed him to adjust for road constructions too.

Guess I went on long enough, but the point is that allowing him to find his
own interests will allow what he does learn to stay with him much longer
than the things we memorized then immediately forgot after the test. He
doesn't even realize how much he is learning each day. Every now and then
he will ask how many days he has logged for school, when I tell him he is
very surprised. He sometimes will read through his log when the realization
of how much he learned sinks in.


Soon school transcripts and
>records for college will come into play, how do I manage this if I am truly
>unschooling?

My oldest son 14, just completed his evaluation for 9th grade. He was
credited with 7.5 credits towards graduation! but on the way to the
evaluation,he asked me how he was going to pass this year as he really
didn't do anything. When the evaluator looked at all of the stuff in his
portfolio, he remarked to my son that he was glad I wasn't his mother as
I'd wear him out with all the stuff we do. My son burst out laughing
remembering our conversation in the car.

The point is that it would seem almost impossible not to complete what is
required for high school through just living. A teen tends to get something
in his/her head and must figure it out. One good example of this from this
year was: My son and I listened to a newsprogram which mentioned the
Japanese banking crisis. He asked why they didn't just print more money,
so we began an indepth conversation on banking/economics etc. That wasn't
good enough so he dug out his _Whatever happened to Penny cAndy_ and while
I was running a couple of errands had pretty much what he needed. He then
wrote up a paper to convince me how Japan could fix their problems. It was
very thought out, and while I don't agree with all of his plan, we have
economists arguing the situation so he's in good company.


I have noticed that my boys backslide, lose the knowledge they
>previously displayed, when we slack off and become more informal. This
>concerns me greatly, can anyone help me with this????

What kind of knowledge? If the knowledge they are forgetting are things
like grammar rules or dates or something like that, then its something that
they don't feel a need for now. OTOH, I bet they can rattle off batting
averages or whatever their passion is. When it comes to grammar, I'd be
more concerned about how they write than if they know all the rules.
Learning doesn't consist of just those things that can be measured, if you
watch you will notice that they are absorbing so much more but it may not
fit nicely into school subjects.


When the children are
>doing close to nothing (usually not a problem with Justin), for quite some
>time, how do you manage that at my boys' ages? All those books on the shelf
>that they never touch, how do you get them interested, or do I just keep
>dusting?!
>
I'd keep dusting.<g> They may surprise you and find an interest in them
sometime, but they may not. What kinds of books do you have on the shelf?
Did you pick them out or did they? I found that for my youngest who doesnt'
care much to read, that I'd picked out all kinds of books that *I* thought
he'd like. But he didn't have much input into the ones that were choosen.
So one day I decided to institute a "school allowance". Because we unschool
there are so many things that fit as educational. ONce my son had a set
amount that he could spend on school things he started to mention all kinds
of things he wanted. Out went the boredom, and he even bought some books,
most were Wishbone mysteries or classics, but he bought books and the
classics added up to Literature class!

>I apologize for sounding so ignorant... it is quite embarassing in fact.
But
>I truly need the help and advice of "experienced" unschoolers who have had
>several years under their belts watching their children grow and trusting
>their children.

Hope I was of help, this is only our second year home from the ps.


I want to somewhat settle into a way of living where I am
>not constantly second guessing myself, irritating my children, feeling
>totally inadequate, and spending way too much money on things that don't
>belong in my home! HELP!!!!!!!!!!
>
I'd suggest picking up things and leaving them lying around that you are
interested in too. I love books,so one of my best finds this year was
Peter Mendels' _Material World_. I got it from the library and left it set
on the table. No one touched it, so later that night I set down with it.
Before long one son arrived to find out what was so interesting. I showed
him how the book was arranged and he asked if he could see it. I told him
he could later, so he tried to pull the guilt trip that this was school and
I should let him see it. After a little while enjoying this I gave it to
him. The next day son number 2 wanted to know why we were "fighting" over a
book. After a while he asked if he could see it. This went on for so long
that I had to renew it a couple of times. You can do this with almost
anything. Right now is planting season here, so I pulled out a seed
catalog, it didn't take long before each child had a list of edible plants
they wanted to grow and each choose an area in the yard for their garden.
So now we are getting our gardens in.

>I am looking forward to networking with you all and hearing your advice on
my
>matters of concern.
>
It will all work out. Just relax.

Lois

Lois Hoover

Glad I was able to help, I began to think I was rambling a little too much.

Lois

At 07:24 PM 6/2/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: "A.Y." <hooperck@...>
>
>Lois,
>Thanks from the bottom of my sometimes unsure, doubting
heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>I loved your note. More than anything else I need to hear stories of what
others
>are doing. This helps me so much.
>Keep us more and more informed.
>Ann
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Have you entered ONElist's "Grow to Give" program?
>http://www.onelist.com
>Deadline is June 19. Join now to win $5000 for your charity of choice.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>

A.Y.

Lois,
Thanks from the bottom of my sometimes unsure, doubting heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I loved your note. More than anything else I need to hear stories of what others
are doing. This helps me so much.
Keep us more and more informed.
Ann

A.Y.

Keep Rambling! Please!
Ann :)

Lois Hoover wrote:

> From: Lois Hoover <lhoover@...>
>
> Glad I was able to help, I began to think I was rambling a little too much.
>
> Lois
>
> At 07:24 PM 6/2/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >From: "A.Y." <hooperck@...>
> >
> >Lois,
> >Thanks from the bottom of my sometimes unsure, doubting
> heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >I loved your note. More than anything else I need to hear stories of what
> others
> >are doing. This helps me so much.
> >Keep us more and more informed.
> >Ann
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Have you entered ONElist's "Grow to Give" program?
> >http://www.onelist.com
> >Deadline is June 19. Join now to win $5000 for your charity of choice.
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Check it out!
> >http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend?
> http://www.onelist.com
> Come join one of nearly 160,000 e-mail communities at ONElist!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/1/1999 10:13:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
APPLEKJF@... writes:

<< All those books on the shelf
that they never touch, how do you get them interested, or do I just keep
dusting?! >>

It takes a while to deschool the kids after you pull them out. How long they
were in school will determine how long to deschool. Everyone is different.
The best advise I can give is to let them be for a while and trust that they
will eventually pick up a book. Soon they will become bored and will look
for something to do. They may even find some new subject or project that
needs exploring in order to do it. How about just letting them explore their
interests? If they have an interest in cars let them go for it. Lots can be
learned from cars, like physics and chemistry. Do they like to take things
apart? You could get some electrical appliances or some other such things at
Goodwill and let them take them apart and reassemble. While they are at it
they could figure out how they work. Lots of great websites for subjects
like this. Here are a few
<A HREF="http://www.howstuffworks.com/">Click here: Welcome to How Stuff Works
</A>
<A HREF="http://www.learner.org/exhibits/parkphysics/">Click here: Exhibits
Collection -- Amusement Park Physics
</A>
<A HREF="http://www.surfnetkids.com/">Click here: Surfing the Net with Kids:
Guide to the BEST KID SITES for kids of all ages
</A>
I had to let my daughter deschool. It took a whole year before she would
pick up a book and read for pleasure. Now she reads about 10 novels a month.
Have patience and take the time to let them discover themselves. You'll be
amazed at the results.

Cindy Berkowitz

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/2/99 7:25:48 AM Central Daylight Time, Kitchen38@...
writes:

<< I read that for every year in ps, that's how many years
it takes to de-school.
I really think that school is evil. They tell you what to do, when to do it,
how to do it,
and God-forbid if you don't do it "right". It's no wonder that when we pull
our children out and "unschool" them, they don't know what to do with
themselves! >>


This is really something that touches my heart. My 17 yos has been out
of school since the middle of 7th grade. We also held him back a year when
he was small, so he is technically going to just be a junior this year. He
is the main reason that I started homeschooling, since he was verbally abused
by two different teachers, was considered ADD and slow (although he got good
grades) and was ridiculed for being different. I could cry right now for
everything the public school system put him through (unfortunately, call me
naive, but I never heard of homeschooling before he was in 6th grade, and
then it took me a year to get up the nerve, and 6 months to talk my dh into
it).
Anyway, my other children have really blossomed from unschooling,
especially my 7 yod, who has never gone to public school. My 10 yos is a
little more laid back, and sometimes likes doing workbooks (yuck!), and my 13
yos is constantly finding something new to get involved in, just like all the
stories I read in GWS and Home Education magazines (photography, cooking,
video making, history books, you name it). My 17 yos, however, doesn't
really want to do anything. He hates anything remotely connected to
schoolwork, so I try to relax with him, but since he is getting so old (and
my ps teacher parents keep pushing) I am getting worried about him and his
future. I have tried every type of Algebra book that I can find (public
school books, Abeka, Saxon, and Principles From Patterns by Making Math
Meaningful), and in the two years of "high school" that he has done at home,
he has not yet finished even 1/2 of any algebra book.
I get concerned and try to "do school" with him, but we both get
frustrated and it feels like no-one is really learning anything--like we are
just forcing things. He gets entirely frustrated with me, so once again I
lay off, but then all he wants to do is read Star Wars books, Robert Jordan
books, play nintendo 64, or play on the internet. I keep wondering when he
will finally be "deschooled" and ready to learn. He has been out of school
for 3 1/2 years, isn't that long enough? I know that he had a very
emotionally bad time at public school, and I am trying to understand him, but
he just doesn't seem to want to do anything productive.
I don't really know anyone who unschools here, like I said this is a
very structured school-at-home homeschool group here. I do have some more
"relaxed" friends that I met from doing KONOS, although they don't quite
unschool, but even they are telling me that he needs to do structured
schooling since he is in high school (all of them have smaller children), and
that he won't be very disciplined in his character if I don't make him be
more structured. They say that I am allowing him to be lazy. Needless to
say, this all concerns me deeply. I sure don't want to be hurting my son. I
would hate to look back years later, and think that he is not getting a job,
or he is living at home and not working, just because I allowed him freedom
to unschool during his teen years.
Is there anyone else who is dealing with an unmotivated teenager? What
do I need to do? Should I back off and give him freedom or should I give him
more structure?
Tami

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/2/99 9:33:58 AM Central Daylight Time, JandJBC@...
writes:

<< hat's when I noticed an interesting thing happening. Mary would ask
to use the computer and spend HOURS writing on the word processor. Then she
asked how to use the publishing program so she could publish books. Then
she
started asking if we could play a Math game. (We use Family Math). Then
she
started pulling out various Art supplies and leaving them laying around all
the time. Then she asked if we could do something in her Chemistry set. It
goes on and on, but you get the idea. Right now we're in a bit of a slump
and I chalk it up to the end of the "school year".
We have plans for the summer that include performing in children's
theater, piano lessons, making a small quilt, using the solar oven Mary
built, learning how to run a small business (mine), and trying to get more
exercise. >>



Judy,
It sounds to me like Mary is doing great! This is what I wish my 17 yos
would do. However, since he is a teenager, that had so many years of public
school, I am wondering if I am wanting too much. I would say, "Keep up the
good work"
Tami in IN (I noticed that you all keep puting the state you are from, so I
guess I will too:)

[email protected]

Wow! Just reading this post gave me a lot of information. I am new to
unschooling too, although homeschooled for the past five years. I am one of
those moms who have the problem of the kids regressing when we are loose. In
math this year, my oldest did less then he did last year, and that really
bothered me. When I don't make them do anything, my boys just want to play
pokemon or playstation. I know that pokemon has learning value, but, that
and watching scooby doo or dragon ball z is their choice of things to do.
So, I don't know where to go from here
Help????
Teresa, mom to 10 yr and 8yr old boys

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/2/99 10:19:48 PM Central Daylight Time, Hsmotgo@...
writes:

<< When I don't make them do anything, my boys just want to play
pokemon or playstation. I know that pokemon has learning value, but, that
and watching scooby doo or dragon ball z is their choice of things to do.
So, I don't know where to go from here
Help???? >>


Teresa,
Hey, they sound like my boys. My kids have been begging for pokemon,
that is one game they do not have yet. What kind of learning value does it
have? I am not familiar with that game at all, even though I sure hear my
kids talking about it all the time.
I wish I could help you, but I am in the same boat. Do you think if we
yell help together, that they would send someone to rescue us? Let's
try.....1, 2, 3, Help!!!!!!
LOL Let's see what happens now!
Tami in IN

B & T Simpson

>

. I have tried every type of Algebra book that I can find (public
>school books, Abeka, Saxon, and Principles From Patterns by Making Math
>Meaningful), and in the two years of "high school" that he has done at
home,
>he has not yet finished even 1/2 of any algebra book.>>>>>
>
Tami, I went all the way thru highschool and never took one ounce of algebra
or preAlgebra, and I am a fine functioning human! I did take buisness math,
and that helped, I just didn't and still don't GET it! so maybe he just
feels overwhelmed by not understanding it, acting bored or not interested
sometimes can be a good sign that someone just can't relate to it in any way
shape or form, and that was me!, taxes do the same thing to me!
Tanya Ohio

B & T Simpson

-----Original Message-----
From: FreeSchool@... <FreeSchool@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] New to list with real important questions!


>From: FreeSchool@...
>
>In a message dated 6/2/99 7:25:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
Kitchen38@...
>writes:
>
><< I read that for every year in ps, that's how many years
> it takes to de-school.
> I really think that school is evil. They tell you what to do, when to do
it,
> how to do it,
> and God-forbid if you don't do it "right". It's no wonder that when we
pull
> our children out and "unschool" them, they don't know what to do with
> themselves! >>
>
>
> This is really something that touches my heart. My 17 yos has been out
>of school since the middle of 7th grade. We also held him back a year when
>he was small, so he is technically going to just be a junior this year. He
>is the main reason that I started homeschooling, since he was verbally
abused
>by two different teachers, was considered ADD and slow (although he got
good
>grades) and was ridiculed for being different. I could cry right now for
>everything the public school system put him through (unfortunately, call me
>naive, but I never heard of homeschooling before he was in 6th grade, and
>then it took me a year to get up the nerve, and 6 months to talk my dh into
>it).
> Anyway, my other children have really blossomed from unschooling,
>especially my 7 yod, who has never gone to public school. My 10 yos is a
>little more laid back, and sometimes likes doing workbooks (yuck!), and my
13
>yos is constantly finding something new to get involved in, just like all
the
>stories I read in GWS and Home Education magazines (photography, cooking,
>video making, history books, you name it). My 17 yos, however, doesn't
>really want to do anything. He hates anything remotely connected to
>schoolwork, so I try to relax with him, but since he is getting so old (and
>my ps teacher parents keep pushing) I am getting worried about him and his
>future. I have tried every type of Algebra book that I can find (public
>school books, Abeka, Saxon, and Principles From Patterns by Making Math
>Meaningful), and in the two years of "high school" that he has done at
home,
>he has not yet finished even 1/2 of any algebra book.
> I get concerned and try to "do school" with him, but we both get
>frustrated and it feels like no-one is really learning anything--like we
are
>just forcing things. He gets entirely frustrated with me, so once again I
>lay off, but then all he wants to do is read Star Wars books, Robert Jordan
>books, play nintendo 64, or play on the internet. I keep wondering when he
>will finally be "deschooled" and ready to learn. He has been out of school
>for 3 1/2 years, isn't that long enough? I know that he had a very
>emotionally bad time at public school, and I am trying to understand him,
but
>he just doesn't seem to want to do anything productive.
> I don't really know anyone who unschools here, like I said this is a
>very structured school-at-home homeschool group here. I do have some more
>"relaxed" friends that I met from doing KONOS, although they don't quite
>unschool, but even they are telling me that he needs to do structured
>schooling since he is in high school (all of them have smaller children),
and
>that he won't be very disciplined in his character if I don't make him be
>more structured. They say that I am allowing him to be lazy. Needless to
>say, this all concerns me deeply. I sure don't want to be hurting my son.
I
>would hate to look back years later, and think that he is not getting a
job,
>or he is living at home and not working, just because I allowed him freedom
>to unschool during his teen years.
> Is there anyone else who is dealing with an unmotivated teenager?
What
>do I need to do? Should I back off and give him freedom or should I give
him
>more structure?
>Tami
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Have you entered ONElist's "Grow to Give" program?
>http://www.onelist.com
>Deadline is June 19. Join now to win $5000 for your charity of choice.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>

Andi Kaufman

>From: FreeSchool@...
but then all he wants to do is read Star Wars books, Robert Jordan
>books, play nintendo 64, or play on the internet. I keep wondering when he
>will finally be "deschooled" and ready to learn. He has been out of school
>for 3 1/2 years, isn't that long enough? I know that he had a very
>emotionally bad time at public school, and I am trying to understand him, but
>he just doesn't seem to want to do anything productive.

I dont have a teenager but i do have some ideas for you to look at. In our
house I am still the parents and there are certain rules to live by. One is
tv and computer games that are not educational.

I did let isaac unschool for a few months in the summer and watch a bunch
of tv. he needed a break but a break doesnt have to last 3 years.

Have you read the teenage liberation handbook? You may want to give it to
him too. And talk to him about what it means to be unschooling and what you
expect from him.

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

Andi Kaufman

Tanya wrote:
>Tami, I went all the way thru highschool and never took one ounce of algebra
>or preAlgebra, and I am a fine functioning human! I did take buisness math,
>and that helped, I just didn't and still don't GET it! so maybe he just
>feels overwhelmed by not understanding it, acting bored or not interested
>sometimes can be a good sign that someone just can't relate to it in any way
>shape or form, and that was me!, taxes do the same thing to me!

I too did not take algebra and do not quite get it yet i am the one in the
house that does all the finances and it hasnt hurt me yet.

but then again I have an 8yo that is begging to learn algebra. there are no
books for kids that age. SO I am just putting in letters for numbers and
letting him solve the prob. my partner will have to take over when isaac
gets past that stage.

I do want to learn more for me too but i draw the line at algebra!

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/99 7:44:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
tl2b@... writes:

<< but then again I have an 8yo that is begging to learn algebra. there are no
books for kids that age. SO I am just putting in letters for numbers and
letting him solve the prob. my partner will have to take over when isaac
gets past that stage. >>

try doing a web search for a book called Calculus for 7 year olds. I think he
goes by the title The Mathman. I'll go hunting, but if someone else has it
bookmarked would you send it on, pretty please. :)

Lisa

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/99 3:36:19 AM PST, michigan@... writes:

<< Tami, I went all the way thru highschool and never took one ounce of
algebra
or preAlgebra, and I am a fine functioning human! I did take buisness math,
and that helped, I just didn't and still don't GET it! >>

Well I did take all Algebra/Geometry etc. NOT because I wanted to but my
parents made me so I could get into a good college. I hated it!!!! I didn't
understand it......I got horrible grades in it. And to this day, I do not
retain anything from it. For me, Business Math and Basic Accounting was more
beneficial for me.

Christina, in WA

[email protected]

Tami,
LOL! I think joining together to yell help will probably help. At least we
know there is at least one other family out there who is in the same boat. I
get real concerned when I hear how all these other kids go to their rooms and
read for hours, or write books. Mine just want to play and play.
Pokemon is a game for gameboy. Their is a guide book that you also need to
buy to help them get from place to place. They learn a lot of map reading
from the book, its like mazes or something, plus they learn to use logic.
Now the boys have a link and can play together or do battle, or trade their
pokemon men. That's about as much as I know about the game. I don't mind
it, but I think there needs to be something else in their life!!
Teresa

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/99 7:43:01 AM EST, tl2b@... writes:

<< But then again I have an 8yo that is begging to learn algebra. there are no
books for kids that age. SO I am just putting in letters for numbers and
letting him solve the prob. my partner will have to take over when isaac
gets past that stage.

I do want to learn more for me too but i draw the line at algebra! >>
Andi,
Hi, I was just wondering if you had tried anything on the net to help with
the algebra? There is so much out there, maybe you could find something.
Have you tried these sites?
<A HREF="http://www.miningco.com/">MiningCo.Com - Professional expert
guidance f...
</A> <A HREF="http://www.teachersfirst.com/index.htm">TeachersFirst -
Classroom Resources & Lesson ...
</A> Start there, I have some friends who are into math big time, maybe I
can find some more for you.
Teresa

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/99 4:36:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
michigan@... writes:

<< . I have tried every type of Algebra book that I can find (public
>school books, Abeka, Saxon, and Principles From Patterns by Making Math
>Meaningful), and in the two years of "high school" that he has done at
home,
>he has not yet finished even 1/2 of any algebra book.>>>>> >>

How old is he? He wants to learn Algebra or you are insisting on it?

My 14 yo wants to learn Algebra - she's not a big math lover, by any means,
but she's taking various classes at the community college and really wants to
go on to a university and realizes that having a solid math background is
likely to be important - she'll take the SAT and may need high scores to get
into some of the colleges she's interested in. And, she wants to feel
"educated" in math, too. Doesn't want it to be some big monster that makes
her feel inadequate <G>.

So - she's started and stopped a variety of approaches to Algebra. Hands-On
Algebra, Keys to Algebra, and Harold Jacobs Algebra book (which is wonderful
wonderful wonderful, imo, and she likes it too, when she works in it - but
she just doesn't ever seem to get to it).

But - she always got distracted and didn't get very far before it seemed to
just get lost in the shuffle of a very busy life.

Now she's using simple workbooks from the educational supply store - and
seems to be totally happy with them. They are the "Straight Forward Math
Series" published by Garlic Press. They also carry them at Borders. They
start from a book on Addition and go through Trigonometry and Pre-Calculus.
They are straightforward - written in English, not Mathese <G>. Each book is
$7.95 - there are two Algebra books, about 75 pages each. My daughter doesn't
seem to have any hesitation in picking these up and doing a page or two
everyday. She doesn't seem to be frustrated at all with them. So - either
SHE just reached the developmental readiness for the kind of abstract
thinking that algebra requires, or we finally hit on a resource with an
approach that suits her.

--pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/99 4:43:08 AM PST, tl2b@... writes:

<<
but then again I have an 8yo that is begging to learn algebra. there are no
books for kids that age. SO I am just putting in letters for numbers and
letting him solve the prob. my partner will have to take over when isaac
gets past that stage.

I do want to learn more for me too but i draw the line at algebra!

A >>

Ok, for adults wanting to learn Algebra, Key To Algebra is an excellent
series. ALSO the Logical Journey of the Zoombinis is a computer game that
teaches algebraic concepts, without you realizing it. Critical thinking
skills too. If your kids (or you) like computer games, then get this
one.... Unschooling is thinking outside the box... there are LOTS of ways to
learn stuff that is "important" in life - we just need to discover them!!!

Mary

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/1999 4:36:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
michigan@... writes:

<< Tami, I went all the way thru highschool and never took one ounce of
algebra
or preAlgebra, and I am a fine functioning human! I did take buisness math,
and that helped, I just didn't and still don't GET it! >>

I graduated from high school and college without taking an ounce of algebra.
In college I was only required to take statistics for my major. Guess what my
major was? Elementary Education!!! So don't worry, even the public school
teachers out there haven't taken algebra. :o)

The whole point of unschooling is that you don't have to do ANYTHING you
don't want too. If your child reaches a point where they realize they need
algebra for something they are interested in, then they will figure out how
to take it. Whether it is at the community college, a friends dad/mom, or
their own parents.

I have to admit that I'm surprised to hear so many of you talking about using
curriculums when most unschoolers I have met shun all forms of 'formal
curriculum' unless the child has expressed a desire to learn in a more formal
environment. Is there anyone on the list who is completely unschooling?

Marti

Andi Kaufman

Marti wrote:
>I have to admit that I'm surprised to hear so many of you talking about using
>curriculums when most unschoolers I have met shun all forms of 'formal
>curriculum' unless the child has expressed a desire to learn in a more formal
>environment. Is there anyone on the list who is completely unschooling?

I dont force Isaac to learn but sometimes we use workbooks when he is
interested in something. I think they can be helpful and so can other types
of books. Unschooling doesnt mean that you dont do anything that has to do
with workbooks, it means you pick and choose what you use and when.

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/1999 2:04:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
tl2b@... writes:

<< I dont force Isaac to learn but sometimes we use workbooks when he is
interested in something. I think they can be helpful and so can other types
of books. Unschooling doesnt mean that you dont do anything that has to do
with workbooks, it means you pick and choose what you use and when. >>

I have heard some lovely debates over that concept!!! :o) Some unschoolers
think you can't use anything curriculum related, some think if the child asks
for workbooks it's ok and some think curriculums are wonderful.

I think it was Andi who said that unschooling is a lifestyle and I couldn't
agree more. As unschoolers you learn to look at the world as whole, not in
labeled segments. You are always learning whether you want to or not and
every new experience is a lesson in life. I wish Sandra Dodd was here, she
has amazing things to say about life-led-education.

We don't use a curriculum but my 8yo loves workbooks so when she asks for one
I don't have a problem with it because it is her choice. I never give the
girls assignments or expect them to read a certain number of pages, ect. I
think homeschooling covers a tremendously broad arena of educational styles
and no one person is right or wrong, it just depends on what works best for
your child and family.

Marti in Wa

Andi Kaufman

Marti wrote:
>I think it was Andi who said that unschooling is a lifestyle and I couldn't
>agree more. As unschoolers you learn to look at the world as whole, not in
>labeled segments.

Damn, I am not used to people agreeing with me :) I wonder if i can get
used to this :)

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/99 5:44:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tl2b@... writes:

<< Tanya wrote:
>Tami, I went all the way thru highschool and never took one ounce of algebra
>or preAlgebra, and I am a fine functioning human! I did take buisness math,
>and that helped, I just didn't and still don't GET it! >>

I graduated 20 yrs. ago and I have never used algebra even once in my adult
life. I asked my dh if he has ever used algebra for anything and he said
"Well, to tell you the truth, honey, I'm really not sure what it is". LOL!
I've asked several people over the last year if they've ever used algebra in
their daily life and only ONE answered yes. He said something about measuring
pipes and angles or something. Well, gosh, my dh is a maintenance man and is
always measuring stuff and works with all kinds of angles and he doesn't even
know what the heck algebra is! I'm not making my children learn it unless
they ask for it. (Cannot even imagine...)
Mary Ellen.

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/99 6:36:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
michigan@... writes:

<< Tami, I went all the way thru highschool and never took one ounce of
algebra
or preAlgebra, and I am a fine functioning human! >>

Tanya,
Thanks, that makes me feel much better! I know that I know that in my
heart, and I have sure gotten that impression from GWS, but coming from a
family that is "college oriented" that is tough, since they all keep telling
me he will need Algebra to get into college. What will they say when they
learn that he may not want to go to college!
I shiver to think about it!
Tami in IN