Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] "buzz words"
[email protected]
This thread of discussion has went around before. Although I DO understand
the negative connotations of certain words, the "schoolish" thinking that
goes behind them, and the fact that many of those words are not needed in
unschooling, I still contend that sometimes it is just a matter of
practicality to use them.
Anna takes piano lessons. Most times we just say "piano" .. But, she does
have a teacher, and she does have lessons( a specified time that she attends
each week). Anna loves piano, she loves her teacher, she really enjoys her
lessons. Anna calls her teacher Mrs Radar, and if someone asks "who is Mrs
Radar, we will say " Anna's piano teacher" Why should we say " the lady who
plays piano and shows Anna how to play"?? I can exchange the words "playing
piano" for lessons or practice, but the reality is, she practices piano. She
practices because she wants to make progress, she wants to become better at
it. It is HER choice. Lots of times she just plays piano ( I can hear her
down there playing right now).
Same thing goes for JP's baseball practice. They have practice on Mondays
and Saturdays. Again, we usually just leave out the word "practice" and
just say. "you've got baseball today" But he may ask, "a game or practice"?
Its not a matter of letting go of traditional schoolish thinking, its just a
matter of practical use of words. I would never say the kids helping me out
in the kitchen is math "lesson" or cooking lesson. I don't plan out things
to be specific learning experiences, they just turn out that way. But, in
the proper context, I'm not going to ban words that perfectly describe what
we are doing.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the negative connotations of certain words, the "schoolish" thinking that
goes behind them, and the fact that many of those words are not needed in
unschooling, I still contend that sometimes it is just a matter of
practicality to use them.
Anna takes piano lessons. Most times we just say "piano" .. But, she does
have a teacher, and she does have lessons( a specified time that she attends
each week). Anna loves piano, she loves her teacher, she really enjoys her
lessons. Anna calls her teacher Mrs Radar, and if someone asks "who is Mrs
Radar, we will say " Anna's piano teacher" Why should we say " the lady who
plays piano and shows Anna how to play"?? I can exchange the words "playing
piano" for lessons or practice, but the reality is, she practices piano. She
practices because she wants to make progress, she wants to become better at
it. It is HER choice. Lots of times she just plays piano ( I can hear her
down there playing right now).
Same thing goes for JP's baseball practice. They have practice on Mondays
and Saturdays. Again, we usually just leave out the word "practice" and
just say. "you've got baseball today" But he may ask, "a game or practice"?
Its not a matter of letting go of traditional schoolish thinking, its just a
matter of practical use of words. I would never say the kids helping me out
in the kitchen is math "lesson" or cooking lesson. I don't plan out things
to be specific learning experiences, they just turn out that way. But, in
the proper context, I'm not going to ban words that perfectly describe what
we are doing.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/7/03 9:54:33 AM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< Although I DO understand
the negative connotations of certain words, the "schoolish" thinking that
goes behind them, and the fact that many of those words are not needed in
unschooling, I still contend that sometimes it is just a matter of
practicality to use them.
In discussions of unschooling, if we use those terms, the clarity turns to
mud.
<<Anna calls her teacher Mrs Radar, and if someone asks "who is Mrs
Radar, we will say " Anna's piano teacher" Why should we say " the lady who
plays piano and shows Anna how to play"?? >>
That's not an unschooling situation. If people here, in these discussions,
use "lessons" and "teaching" about situations which are natural learning
situations, it can potentially encourage newer unschoolers to think they
still need to see lessons and to teach. And they don't, and they shouldn't.
<<Same thing goes for JP's baseball practice. They have practice on Mondays
and Saturdays. Again, we usually just leave out the word "practice" and
just say. "you've got baseball today" But he may ask, "a game or practice"?
It's not unschooling.
<<But, in the proper context, I'm not going to ban words that perfectly
describe what
we are doing.>>
It's all about context.
There are times kids should definitely NOT use the "f" word and there are
time when you can't quote something without using it. Any rule about NEVER
using it or ALWAYS using it would be silly.
But if I were to say that because it's okay to use it when quoting a comedy
routine or singing a South Park song that it's okay to say it full voice at
grandma's during dinner, that would make no sense whatsoever. (And if I were
to forbid my children ever to say it until the day they die, I would just be
giving them a mandate to be sneaky and never say it in front of me.)
Sandra
<< Although I DO understand
the negative connotations of certain words, the "schoolish" thinking that
goes behind them, and the fact that many of those words are not needed in
unschooling, I still contend that sometimes it is just a matter of
practicality to use them.
>>Sure, but this list is rarely that practical place.
In discussions of unschooling, if we use those terms, the clarity turns to
mud.
<<Anna calls her teacher Mrs Radar, and if someone asks "who is Mrs
Radar, we will say " Anna's piano teacher" Why should we say " the lady who
plays piano and shows Anna how to play"?? >>
That's not an unschooling situation. If people here, in these discussions,
use "lessons" and "teaching" about situations which are natural learning
situations, it can potentially encourage newer unschoolers to think they
still need to see lessons and to teach. And they don't, and they shouldn't.
<<Same thing goes for JP's baseball practice. They have practice on Mondays
and Saturdays. Again, we usually just leave out the word "practice" and
just say. "you've got baseball today" But he may ask, "a game or practice"?
>>That's an organized sport with its own terminology.
It's not unschooling.
<<But, in the proper context, I'm not going to ban words that perfectly
describe what
we are doing.>>
It's all about context.
There are times kids should definitely NOT use the "f" word and there are
time when you can't quote something without using it. Any rule about NEVER
using it or ALWAYS using it would be silly.
But if I were to say that because it's okay to use it when quoting a comedy
routine or singing a South Park song that it's okay to say it full voice at
grandma's during dinner, that would make no sense whatsoever. (And if I were
to forbid my children ever to say it until the day they die, I would just be
giving them a mandate to be sneaky and never say it in front of me.)
Sandra
jmcseals SEALS
Thanks Teresa! That's just what I was *trying* to say but you did it so
much better! <bg> My point exactly!
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
much better! <bg> My point exactly!
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/7/03 12:46:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Any rule about NEVERTotally agree. And I also agree that it is all about context.
> using it or ALWAYS using it would be silly.
>
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/7/03 12:46:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
karate 3 times a week and baseball 2 times a week. Right now, those two
things are his passion and they consume a lot of his time and energies. (
going to practice, playing at home, talking about them, reading books about
them, watching videos.. etc). To me, they ARE unschooling, because they are
what he is chosing to do. Really, it doesnt matter if those things are
unschooling or not, JP loves them and we he will continue to do them as long
as he wants to. I just did not know that there were categories that were or
were not considered unschooling, I thought it was a way of life.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> That's an organized sport with its own terminology.Is Karate also "not" unschooling? JP just started taking karate too. He has
> It's not unschooling.
>
karate 3 times a week and baseball 2 times a week. Right now, those two
things are his passion and they consume a lot of his time and energies. (
going to practice, playing at home, talking about them, reading books about
them, watching videos.. etc). To me, they ARE unschooling, because they are
what he is chosing to do. Really, it doesnt matter if those things are
unschooling or not, JP loves them and we he will continue to do them as long
as he wants to. I just did not know that there were categories that were or
were not considered unschooling, I thought it was a way of life.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 5/7/03 12:50 PM, grlynbl@... at grlynbl@... wrote:
unschooling". Occasionally the list becomes a kick back and talk about your
day kind of list. Sometimes it serves other purposes. But regardless of what
people are using it for, the discussion should not make understanding
unschooling more difficult and ideally discussions should strive to move
someone forward.
No one should see a discussion of words as about what they personally should
or shouldn't do in the privacy of their homes, but they should see all
discussions as being about helping others unschool.
There are new people joining all the time. And the list is oriented towards
helping them understand unschooling.
Joyce
> Totally agree. And I also agree that it is all about context.And the context *here* on this list is "trying to help people get
unschooling". Occasionally the list becomes a kick back and talk about your
day kind of list. Sometimes it serves other purposes. But regardless of what
people are using it for, the discussion should not make understanding
unschooling more difficult and ideally discussions should strive to move
someone forward.
No one should see a discussion of words as about what they personally should
or shouldn't do in the privacy of their homes, but they should see all
discussions as being about helping others unschool.
There are new people joining all the time. And the list is oriented towards
helping them understand unschooling.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/7/03 11:02:32 AM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< Is Karate also "not" unschooling? >>
It's definitely not unschooling. It's a "school" in more ways than one.
But an unschooler can take karate and still be an unschooler, he's just not
in an unschooling situation when he's at the dojo.
<< To me, they ARE unschooling, because they are
what he is chosing to do. Really, it doesnt matter if those things are
unschooling or not, JP loves them and we he will continue to do them as long
as he wants to. >>
Right. And if you're not forcing him to be in those classes, or making him
take karate "for his PE credit" or whatever, his experience there won't be
the same as some of the other kids'.
<< I just did not know that there were categories that were or
were not considered unschooling, >>
Seriously?
Maybe that's why you've been so frustrated sometimes.
When you become an unschooler it doesn't transform the rest of the world. It
changes your stance in relationship to the rest of the world, but what's
still teacher/student run in piano classes, dojos, universities, zoo-run
children's docent programs, whatever all, is still what it is.
How can our unschooling change what OTHER people are doing? It just changes
how we respond to it.
<<I thought it was a way of life. >>
Our way of life doesn't change the karate dojo where Kirby goes. He's
testing for a brown belt in a week or two. (They never tell us until the
last minute, but it's this month.) The fees won't be different because he's
an unschooler. The forms and requirements won't be different. The fact that
Kirby isn't in school has affected his interactions there in some subtle and
profound ways, but he's still bound by their rules because he chose to go
there. He teaches, when he teaches, their way. He responds to the kids
maybe a little more individuall, and he doesn't have the school-based
put-downs and analogies some of the others there have, because he just
doesn't have them inside to accidently dish out sometimes. (The others don't
mean to, but sometimes they'll say something like "You wouldn't do that in
school, would you?" or "It's just like in school...")
Sandra
<< Is Karate also "not" unschooling? >>
It's definitely not unschooling. It's a "school" in more ways than one.
But an unschooler can take karate and still be an unschooler, he's just not
in an unschooling situation when he's at the dojo.
<< To me, they ARE unschooling, because they are
what he is chosing to do. Really, it doesnt matter if those things are
unschooling or not, JP loves them and we he will continue to do them as long
as he wants to. >>
Right. And if you're not forcing him to be in those classes, or making him
take karate "for his PE credit" or whatever, his experience there won't be
the same as some of the other kids'.
<< I just did not know that there were categories that were or
were not considered unschooling, >>
Seriously?
Maybe that's why you've been so frustrated sometimes.
When you become an unschooler it doesn't transform the rest of the world. It
changes your stance in relationship to the rest of the world, but what's
still teacher/student run in piano classes, dojos, universities, zoo-run
children's docent programs, whatever all, is still what it is.
How can our unschooling change what OTHER people are doing? It just changes
how we respond to it.
<<I thought it was a way of life. >>
Our way of life doesn't change the karate dojo where Kirby goes. He's
testing for a brown belt in a week or two. (They never tell us until the
last minute, but it's this month.) The fees won't be different because he's
an unschooler. The forms and requirements won't be different. The fact that
Kirby isn't in school has affected his interactions there in some subtle and
profound ways, but he's still bound by their rules because he chose to go
there. He teaches, when he teaches, their way. He responds to the kids
maybe a little more individuall, and he doesn't have the school-based
put-downs and analogies some of the others there have, because he just
doesn't have them inside to accidently dish out sometimes. (The others don't
mean to, but sometimes they'll say something like "You wouldn't do that in
school, would you?" or "It's just like in school...")
Sandra
Deborah Lewis
*** He's
testing for a brown belt in a week or two.***
Congratulations to Kirby. Good for him.
Dylan tested for brown belt in April and it was a grueling two and a half
hours.
He had to know all the kata's and because his club is also a Tae Kwon Do
club he had to know the Taegeuk Poomse's one through eight and the
exercises.
Gads! The sparring was the hardest. It came at the end of the test
when he was tired already and he sparred fifteen minutes with the first
degree brown belt who wasn't testing and wasn't tired and who is
twenty-two and TALL, and he sparred the eight other students testing for
other colored belts.
He couldn't break the brown board and felt bad. He felt like he could
have broken it at the start of the class but not at the end when he was
shaky and tired.
So, Kirby already knows it won't be easy, I guess. He's tested before
and seen others test. Just a warning to his mom, (if you're going to
be there). Resist that urge to stand up and YELL at the other students
and instructors kicking your son. <g> Brown belts find that
embarrassing.
Deb L
testing for a brown belt in a week or two.***
Congratulations to Kirby. Good for him.
Dylan tested for brown belt in April and it was a grueling two and a half
hours.
He had to know all the kata's and because his club is also a Tae Kwon Do
club he had to know the Taegeuk Poomse's one through eight and the
exercises.
Gads! The sparring was the hardest. It came at the end of the test
when he was tired already and he sparred fifteen minutes with the first
degree brown belt who wasn't testing and wasn't tired and who is
twenty-two and TALL, and he sparred the eight other students testing for
other colored belts.
He couldn't break the brown board and felt bad. He felt like he could
have broken it at the start of the class but not at the end when he was
shaky and tired.
So, Kirby already knows it won't be easy, I guess. He's tested before
and seen others test. Just a warning to his mom, (if you're going to
be there). Resist that urge to stand up and YELL at the other students
and instructors kicking your son. <g> Brown belts find that
embarrassing.
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/7/03 12:22:15 PM, ddzimlew@... writes:
<< So, Kirby already knows it won't be easy, I guess. He's tested before
and seen others test. >>
This school doesn't have that kind of test. I think I'm glad! <g>
The black belt test is long and involves more other people, I think.
The sparring is kinda formalized for these (at least has been up to this
point).
It's going to cost money, though, and we just paid his annual tuition/fees at
the dojo, and his gi is getting really threadbare.
Well... He's healthy and these expenses can be borne.
Sandra
Sandra
<< So, Kirby already knows it won't be easy, I guess. He's tested before
and seen others test. >>
This school doesn't have that kind of test. I think I'm glad! <g>
The black belt test is long and involves more other people, I think.
The sparring is kinda formalized for these (at least has been up to this
point).
It's going to cost money, though, and we just paid his annual tuition/fees at
the dojo, and his gi is getting really threadbare.
Well... He's healthy and these expenses can be borne.
Sandra
Sandra
Deborah Lewis
***It's going to cost money, though, and we just paid his annual
tuition/fees at
the dojo, and his gi is getting really threadbare. ***
One of the few benefits of living in a small town, things are cheap.
We pay the dues monthly, which is easier than coming up with it all at
once, and the testing fee's haven't been too high yet.
Testing for black belt will be expensive here, though. Because of the
Tae Kwon Do affiliation he'll have to test in another town and be judged
by a Master. Apparently Master's aren't cheap. Hopefully that's a
few years away.
And we're off to his class right now...
Deb L
tuition/fees at
the dojo, and his gi is getting really threadbare. ***
One of the few benefits of living in a small town, things are cheap.
We pay the dues monthly, which is easier than coming up with it all at
once, and the testing fee's haven't been too high yet.
Testing for black belt will be expensive here, though. Because of the
Tae Kwon Do affiliation he'll have to test in another town and be judged
by a Master. Apparently Master's aren't cheap. Hopefully that's a
few years away.
And we're off to his class right now...
Deb L