Heidi

hours, that's what I've spent at this computer today, and in the past
few days. It feels like a complete waste of time, and I'm so thankful
that my kids have each other to play with and interact with,
because...I have been mostly ignoring them.

Do I just go with this flow, and let myself burn out on
computerizing? do I go on hiatus and get away from it? Computer isn't
the only thing i did today: laundry, bread baking, cookie making
(w/Katie), vacuuming, reading, teaching our neighbor's dog to sit,
making breakfast...whoop-de-doo...

but in between these other things, every time, I'd beeline to the
computer. Discussion boards (this and one other, predominantly) and a
few blogs, more than information gathering or games or anything.

I'm not happy with this, but it's like that's all I really want to
do. My hubby doesn't like me spending this much time online, but...
but... but...

help?

Heidi

Tammy

Heidi, I've been doing exactly the same things. <g> Moms and Dads have to
de-school, too, and I think it is just part of the process. The kids used
to make themselves scarce at "school" time..poor things.. they hated it..in
the end, I was doing all the school-work, just so we would have something to
show anyone that asked. I felt so ridiculous as it's not even required!
Finally I just quit, and went to un-schooling.com and looked at the message
board, articles, etc. It has been such a weight lifted. I do get antsy
sometimes, but then I just come here and it's all better. <bg>
tammy




************hours, that's what I've spent at this computer today, and in the
past
few days. It feels like a complete waste of time, and I'm so thankful
that my kids have each other to play with and interact with,
because...I have been mostly ignoring them.

Do I just go with this flow, and let myself burn out on
computerizing? do I go on hiatus and get away from it? Computer isn't
the only thing i did today: laundry, bread baking, cookie making
(w/Katie), vacuuming, reading, teaching our neighbor's dog to sit,
making breakfast...whoop-de-doo...

but in between these other things, every time, I'd beeline to the
computer. Discussion boards (this and one other, predominantly) and a
few blogs, more than information gathering or games or anything.

I'm not happy with this, but it's like that's all I really want to
do. My hubby doesn't like me spending this much time online, but...
but... but...

help?

Heidi*******************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Funny, I was just *justifying* our unschooling to a family member the other
night. We've got waaaaay too many *educators* in the family, they tend to
take it as a personal affront that I do not choose school for my kids. I was
IMing with my pseudo-brother [cousin-I'm an honorary member of his family],
who lives 5 hours away and sees my kids an average of 2-3 times a year. 1.5
years ago, he wanted to be a doctor, so he immediately diagnosed my ds with
ADHD to which I responded, IF his daddy didn't die last year and IF he didn't
have me for a mom, I may give your advice some credibility...
So now, he asks "How's homeschooling?"
me: homeschooling ROCKS!
him: Is Hannah doing better with her numbers?
my instinct: What the *beep* are you talking about, you *beeping*
*beeeeeeeeep*?
my mouth: Hannah knows all the math required to be 6.5, though I'm sure she
doesn't know enough to withstand grilling by family members.
him: just consider us your school board
me: which is what I'm avoiding by homeschooling, she doesn't have to answer
to them, via testing, until fall of 2005
him: Oh good! I'm glad they hold you accountable. They need to do something
about the deadbeat parents who consider themselves homeschoolers.
me: Some would consider unschooling *deadbeat parenting* only because they
don't understand it
him: NO, I mean the parent who keeps their kid out of school, not wanting
outside influences on their child, then doesn't influence the child himself
and allows the child to do what they want. It's just an excuse to sleep in.

me: Wow Jare, you just described my goal!! My kids can learn by living...
as luck would have it, bath time arrived and I had to get off the computer <
bg>

I swear sometimes the only reasons kids learn the crap they do at school is
to impress relatives!! *I* don't go around quizzing small children ~ it's,
it's, it's icky and rude and pompous and and and...

Whew! thanks for being here guys! I'm glad I've got *some* answers for those
who cannot *live and let live*

diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
“I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly
losing it's understanding of being human" John Trudell


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

WOW!
Some people just think they can say anything! That was so not nice of him to
say that to you.
Sorry you had to deal with that, that is really a HS family needs to hear.
I have a few anal family members also. They even grill my son when I am not
around. If people only knew how many of us there are around them.

Any one know of a good Unschooling bumper stick slogan?

Laura D



In a message dated 5/6/2003 12:40:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
HaHaMommy@... writes:

> Subj: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] RE: Deschooling? or being lazy?
> Date: 5/6/2003 12:40:20 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From: <A HREF="mailto:HaHaMommy@...">HaHaMommy@...</A>
> Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>
> To: <A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> Funny, I was just *justifying* our unschooling to a family member the other
>
> night. We've got waaaaay too many *educators* in the family, they tend to
> take it as a personal affront that I do not choose school for my kids. I
> was
> IMing with my pseudo-brother [cousin-I'm an honorary member of his family],
>
> who lives 5 hours away and sees my kids an average of 2-3 times a year.
> 1.5
> years ago, he wanted to be a doctor, so he immediately diagnosed my ds with
>
> ADHD to which I responded, IF his daddy didn't die last year and IF he
> didn't
> have me for a mom, I may give your advice some credibility...
> So now, he asks "How's homeschooling?"
> me: homeschooling ROCKS!
> him: Is Hannah doing better with her numbers?
> my instinct: What the *beep* are you talking about, you *beeping*
> *beeeeeeeeep*?
> my mouth: Hannah knows all the math required to be 6.5, though I'm sure she
>
> doesn't know enough to withstand grilling by family members.
> him: just consider us your school board
> me: which is what I'm avoiding by homeschooling, she doesn't have to answer
>
> to them, via testing, until fall of 2005
> him: Oh good! I'm glad they hold you accountable. They need to do
> something
> about the deadbeat parents who consider themselves homeschoolers.
> me: Some would consider unschooling *deadbeat parenting* only because they
> don't understand it
> him: NO, I mean the parent who keeps their kid out of school, not wanting
> outside influences on their child, then doesn't influence the child himself
>
> and allows the child to do what they want. It's just an excuse to sleep
> in.
>
> me: Wow Jare, you just described my goal!! My kids can learn by living...
> as luck would have it, bath time arrived and I had to get off the computer <
>
> bg>
>
> I swear sometimes the only reasons kids learn the crap they do at school is
>
> to impress relatives!! *I* don't go around quizzing small children ~ it's,
>
> it's, it's icky and rude and pompous and and and...
>
> Whew! thanks for being here guys! I'm glad I've got *some* answers for
> those
> who cannot *live and let live*
>
> diana,
> The wackiest widow westriver...
> “I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly
> losing it's understanding of being human" John Trudell
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
> the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list
> owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
> email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

**him: Oh good! I'm glad they hold you accountable. They need to do
something
about the deadbeat parents who consider themselves homeschoolers. **


My first thought for an answer is "Aren't you a little old to be afraid
of the bogeyman?"

Betsy

PS I don't think he meant *you* are one of those deadbeats, but he was
dissing homeschoolers so he deserves to be whomped on a little bit.

jmcseals SEALS

>>Any one know of a good Unschooling bumper stick slogan?<<<

Did anyone catch the re-run of Dharma and Greg the other night?? It's the
one were Greg's ex-girlfriend calls for a letter of recommendation to a
private school for her son, who Greg *thought* was his.

ANYWAY <bg> they're talking about homeschooling and how boring school is,
especially prep school and Dharma says something like:

Would you rather learn thermodynamics from some boring textbok or on a hot
air balloon ride to Mexico.

I want a copy of that show 'cause it would make a GREAT bumper sticker!!!

Jennifer




_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

Diana,

I totally understand! My sister in law is a special education
teacher and very into her career! She is one of those people who
thinks that any mention of your choices, children's actions, etc. are
somehow requests for her advice. She drives me batty. I say "Oh,
the baby isnt talking yet" in passing converstion, no worries here.
And she replies, "Well that is developmentaly
appropriate..blah..blah..blah. ARGGGHHHHH! I KNOW!! Anyway, we
have mentioned homeschooling in the past and got the "Just so you
know...I knew some kids...blah..blah.." I am not looking forward to
her passive aggressive behavior once she finds out Keiran is home and
not going on to school...<G>. It will drive her mad. Especially
since she is one of those people who always has to make the "right"
choice. This type of decision will just completely throw her! Oh,
well I told my husband it was his sister, he could deal with her.

BTW, I cannot understand people who say homeschoolers are slackers.
Do they not realize how much easier it would be to send my children
away all day while I made a nice secondary income? If I wanted to be
a slacker, and I have seen many who are, I would just shut my kids in
preschool all day, pick them up as late as possible and then dinner
and bed. Now that is being a slacker! Having my children with me
all day, entertaining them when need be, giving up my income, etc.
makes me and all of us very devoted to this decision. People assume
we are missing some piece of information, and it is just the
opposite. I have read more about schooling than any of
my "schooling" friends. It was the same attitude when I did not want
to vaccinate my kids. I had read more and was more knowledable, yet
somehow those that never questioned their doctors advice are more
advised than me?? Oh, well there is my tirade for the day!

COngratulations to you for sticking to it,especially with your
situation! You deserve praise and support!

Olga :)

--- In [email protected], HaHaMommy@a... wrote:
> Funny, I was just *justifying* our unschooling to a family member
the other
> night. We've got waaaaay too many *educators* in the family, they
tend to
> take it as a personal affront that I do not choose school for my
kids. I was
> IMing with my pseudo-brother [cousin-I'm an honorary member of his
family],
> who lives 5 hours away and sees my kids an average of 2-3 times a
year. 1.5
> years ago, he wanted to be a doctor, so he immediately diagnosed my
ds with
> ADHD to which I responded, IF his daddy didn't die last year and IF
he didn't
> have me for a mom, I may give your advice some credibility...
> So now, he asks "How's homeschooling?"
> me: homeschooling ROCKS!
> him: Is Hannah doing better with her numbers?
> my instinct: What the *beep* are you talking about, you *beeping*
> *beeeeeeeeep*?
> my mouth: Hannah knows all the math required to be 6.5, though I'm
sure she
> doesn't know enough to withstand grilling by family members.
> him: just consider us your school board
> me: which is what I'm avoiding by homeschooling, she doesn't have
to answer
> to them, via testing, until fall of 2005
> him: Oh good! I'm glad they hold you accountable. They need to do
something
> about the deadbeat parents who consider themselves homeschoolers.
> me: Some would consider unschooling *deadbeat parenting* only
because they
> don't understand it
> him: NO, I mean the parent who keeps their kid out of school, not
wanting
> outside influences on their child, then doesn't influence the child
himself
> and allows the child to do what they want. It's just an excuse to
sleep in.
>
> me: Wow Jare, you just described my goal!! My kids can learn by
living...
> as luck would have it, bath time arrived and I had to get off the
computer <
> bg>
>
> I swear sometimes the only reasons kids learn the crap they do at
school is
> to impress relatives!! *I* don't go around quizzing small children
~ it's,
> it's, it's icky and rude and pompous and and and...
>
> Whew! thanks for being here guys! I'm glad I've got *some* answers
for those
> who cannot *live and let live*
>
> diana,
> The wackiest widow westriver...
> “I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very
rapidly
> losing it's understanding of being human" John Trudell
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

How about a paraphrase of what I always hear,

My kids are living life
while your children are reading about it!

Olga :)

I am sure there will be some at the conference of some sort??
>
> Any one know of a good Unschooling bumper stick slogan?
>
> Laura D
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/6/03 2:54:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
britcontoo@... writes:

> How about a paraphrase of what I always hear,
>
> My kids are living life
> while your children are reading about it!
>
>

My book bags say "Unschoolers live and learn" and just by having that on my
book bags I get so many questions. LOL
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/6/03 3:53:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jmcseals@...
writes:

> Did anyone catch the re-run of Dharma and Greg the other night?? It's the
> one were Greg's ex-girlfriend calls for a letter of recommendation to a
> private school for her son, who Greg *thought* was his.
>
>

I love Dharma and Greg. Especially the one where she is explaining that she
did the wiring in her parents house as a "science project". LOL. And her
old bedroom was built around the trampoline and that was her bed.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim and Maureen

----- Original Message -----
From: hahamommy@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] RE: Deschooling? or being lazy?


<<I swear sometimes the only reasons kids learn the crap they do at school is
to impress relatives!! *I* don't go around quizzing small children ~ it's,
it's, it's icky and rude and pompous and and and...>>

Boy Diana I know what you mean. My husbands mom was visiting last fall. We met and the kids took turn driving home with her. Big mistake but I had no clue that she would quiz them .My poor 10 year old. She quizzed him in math and of course by her standards he failed. She hardly knows him so did not understand that he does the math in his head and needs time, lots of time. Fortunately he did not get hung up about her stuff.He seemed to let it go completely.
In the end she suffers because they don't wish to spend time with her so I guess it all rights itself in the end. What a shame they can't see how easy it would be to have a meaningful relationship with my kids. And who is socially deprived here anyway????

Maureen

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim and Maureen

----- Original Message -----
From: Olga
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:48 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Was: Deschooling? or being lazy?; Family Interferences


<<< People assume
we are missing some piece of information, and it is just the
opposite. I have read more about schooling than any of
my "schooling" friends. It was the same attitude when I did not want
to vaccinate my kids. I had read more and was more knowledable, yet
somehow those that never questioned their doctors advice are more
advised than me?? Oh, well there is my tirade for the day!>>

Truer words were never spoken. I wonder how many people who send there kids to school have researched education, why it is done, where it began, philosophy, etc...I have never read so much on one topic as with schooling, unschooling, homeschooling, children,etc..And yet what am I thinking of. Do I know what I am doing. Have I thought of their social needs...
Do I sound a little cynical. I guess somedays it gets tiring more than others. In the morning it will look different again.


maureen



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2003 2:44:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tmthomas@... writes:


> >>Truer words were never spoken. I wonder how many people who send there
> kids to school have researched education, why it is done, where it began,
> philosophy, etc...I have never read so much on one topic as with schooling,
> unschooling, homeschooling, children,etc..And yet what am I thinking of. Do
> I know what I am doing. Have I thought of their social needs...<<

Bottom line, if most parents **would** read as much as most of us have about
schooling, it's effectiveness, what it does to kids, the whole hierarchy
behind it and the money tied to it, they **would** take their kids out of
school, or seek out better ones, or something. I often wonder if many of
these folks have an "ignorance is bliss" sort of denial, and don't want to
know.

I believe part of it's a huge entangled mess. People get sucked into
materialism, wanting the latest gadget, newest car, bigger house. They have
to pay for it somehow, can't do that AND school the kids at home, so they
just believe what the schools tell them so they'll feel their kids are
getting all they need at George Washington Elementary. "Let's not read any
of those articles or books explaining why the schools are failing, let's just
vote for the next school levy and give them more money...let's send the kids
door to door selling the 5th fundraiser this year. And hey, let's be sure
and let all those homeschoolers know how they're ruining their children, just
to make ourselves feel MUCH better about our decisions."

I don't know...I sort of pity them...

Nancy




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

Thanks, Tammi

I've found this list and the articles available online to be very
helpful. It's like giving myself permission to sit and soak it all
up.

However!!! Just this morning, I caught myself wondering what I'm
going to say when Katie's little girlfriend comes to Idaho for a week
or so (as every summer) Same age, and I'm afraid I'll be comparing
the friend's skills and abilities to my Katie's and what will I say
etc. I'll continue absorbing this stuff, just to hang on to the bit
of confidence I have. Confident that their brains work! L and there's
a natural way of learning, and they're DOING IT.

thanks again

HeidiC


--- In [email protected], "Tammy "
<qpwithcheese@h...> wrote:
> Heidi, I've been doing exactly the same things. <g> Moms and Dads
have to
> de-school, too, and I think it is just part of the process. The
kids used
> to make themselves scarce at "school" time..poor things.. they
hated it..in
> the end, I was doing all the school-work, just so we would have
something to
> show anyone that asked. I felt so ridiculous as it's not even
required!
> Finally I just quit, and went to un-schooling.com and looked at the
message
> board, articles, etc. It has been such a weight lifted. I do get
antsy
> sometimes, but then I just come here and it's all better. <bg>
> tammy
>
>
>
>
> ************hours, that's what I've spent at this computer today,
and in the
> past
> few days. It feels like a complete waste of time, and I'm so
thankful
> that my kids have each other to play with and interact with,
> because...I have been mostly ignoring them.
>
> Do I just go with this flow, and let myself burn out on
> computerizing? do I go on hiatus and get away from it? Computer
isn't
> the only thing i did today: laundry, bread baking, cookie making
> (w/Katie), vacuuming, reading, teaching our neighbor's dog to sit,
> making breakfast...whoop-de-doo...
>
> but in between these other things, every time, I'd beeline to the
> computer. Discussion boards (this and one other, predominantly) and
a
> few blogs, more than information gathering or games or anything.
>
> I'm not happy with this, but it's like that's all I really want to
> do. My hubby doesn't like me spending this much time online, but...
> but... but...
>
> help?
>
> Heidi*******************
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

> I have a few anal family members also. They even grill my son when
I am not
> around.

My hubby's mom does this. She is incapable of not getting on our case
about the homeschooling, whenever we go up for a visit. And so,
I "pass" on going up for visits, more often than not. She's an
unpleasant person anyway. Opinionated, strident, loud. Impatient.

I won't leave my kids alone with her, though she invites them up for
visits every summer. I send their dad with em. When she stayed with
them, while we took our older kids to Disneyland, we came back to a
boy who wouldn't go NEAR the toilet, she pushed him so hard to potty
train while we were gone. In fact, he refused to poop for a day or
two after she left. :( I'll never leave her solely in charge of my
kids EVER again, no matter how many invites we get.

*urg blood pressure* Her attitude about us homeschooling is three
times that of any other decision her other sons have made.

HeidiC



If people only knew how many of us there are around them.
>
> Any one know of a good Unschooling bumper stick slogan?
>
> Laura D

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/03 12:44:39 AM, tmthomas@... writes:

<< I wonder how many people who send there kids to school have researched
education, why it is done, where it began, philosophy, etc...I have never
read so much on one topic as with schooling, unschooling, homeschooling,
children,etc..And yet what am I thinking of. Do I know what I am doing. Have
I thought of their social needs...
Do I sound a little cynical. I guess somedays it gets tiring more than
others. In the morning it will look different again.
>>

The sad thing, and what makes this list and unschooling.com so valuable, is
that ALL homeschoolers deal with that pressure and igorance, but unschoolers
get another round of it from the structured homeschoolers. We have to defend
our decisions and understandings from people who get as far as homeschooling
and THEN stop researching and thinking.

Oh, some of them will say they researched their decision about what
curriculum to use, but mostly they looked across at the others at their chur
ch or support group and bought what they were using just so they would NOT
have to learn the what and why and they would not have to defend their
choices. Then they snub or critize unschoolers.

I refuse to make my children "do schoolwork" just to deflect the criticism of
other homeschoolers, and I (irritatingly to some) won't even back up to a
corner in this list and let people say little kids need structure and that
all methods are valid and we just have to find the one that works for our
kids. When we don't have a strong, supportive place to be refreshed and
encouraged and reminded kids learn every day, our lives are harder.

One step outside this forum into the wild world of the internet or of
in-person "inclusive" support groups and it's WAY easier to hear that
workbooks are necessary and handwriting will make or break a life and that
windows of learning opportunity slam shut forever if you're not a vigilant
teacher.

THOSE messages we have.

The other messages we need to keep giving each other.

Sandra

Tim and Maureen

----- Original Message -----
From: sandradodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Was: Deschooling? or being lazy?; Family Interferences


I hear you Sandra and agree heartily. I for one admire the idea of keeping the unschooling philosophy andthis

list clean and pure and not getting mixed up in believes and definitions. I think it is important to have a clear firm

definition of what unschooling is .We have so many obstacles out there that being sure here is very helpful to

my personal growth in the area of my own conviction of why I choose unschooling.
Maureen



<<<I refuse to make my children "do schoolwork" just to deflect the criticism of
other homeschoolers, and I (irritatingly to some) won't even back up to a
corner in this list and let people say little kids need structure and that
all methods are valid and we just have to find the one that works for our
kids. When we don't have a strong, supportive place to be refreshed and
encouraged and reminded kids learn every day, our lives are harder.

One step outside this forum into the wild world of the internet or of
in-person "inclusive" support groups and it's WAY easier to hear that
workbooks are necessary and handwriting will make or break a life and that
windows of learning opportunity slam shut forever if you're not a vigilant
teacher.

THOSE messages we have.

The other messages we need to keep giving each other.>>>>


Sandra



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor





~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

This is going to be a specifically American response; sorry to other
nationals reading.

<< so they
just believe what the schools tell them so they'll feel their kids are
getting all they need at George Washington Elementary. >>

There's another social aspect which affects all manner of parents whose kids
are in government school. It has been considered unpatriotic in many ways to
have children in private schools. And homeschooling is seen in some ways as
the ultimate privacy.

"All men are created equal" has never been true in an objective-truth way,
but it's a central myth and the pretence and appearance of it are enhanced by
the idea that all children would receive the same education, and rub elbows
with other Americans as they grow up.

Kids in rich prep schools are living in a much older tradition, pre-dating
public schooling and pre-dating compulsory education. Kids in parochial
schools are in a hybrid situation, but there are still people who don't think
parochial education should have ever been legal in the U.S. And lately
(lately twenty years) lots of lamer "Christian" equivalent schools have
sprung up, many of them run in church basements or Sunday school rooms during
the week, and are just A Beka done at the church table instead of the kitchen
table at home. Some of those "schools" are just an extension of the church
daycare system through 8th or 12th grade.

So the turmoil of protecting the monolithic and central public school system
in the U.S. is not even of our doing at all, yet we're easier targets because
we didn't even stay to participate in the fight. We "abandoned the schools,"
and (they will say) don't even care what happens to other people's kids. We
took some of the best kids out (teachers have said many times) and that makes
their job harder, and the student body averages are lower (? socially? for
testing purposes? as far as who was sparkly and interesting? whose moms would
bring cupcakes? some or all of that).

Too bad the class sizes aren't lower! THAT is what I wish would happen.
That funding would change so that each of our kids left "an empty desk" and
the student teacher ratio would finally be closer to manageable and
personable. But the school just shrinks like an evaporating puddle so that
they're still just as crowded and just as outnumbered, because they get a
per-head count of who's there, not a per-head of who's in the the community.
And that's too bad. If half the kids are out in other places, they should
have twice as much money and teachers and room for the kids who are left.
Then we'd be a benefit to the schools directly.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/03 5:51:31 AM, KathrynJB@... writes:

<< I was always amused that the only she things she ever claimed about
missing
about school were a prom (which she attended with a younger friend as an
adult) and riding the school bus (so she bought one to ride around in.) I
guess you can even do THAT kind of stuff later. >>

I am doomed here to seem a bubbly bullshitter, because people read Holly's
mind and set me up.

Kirby's going to a prom this Saturday. He would have been to one last
weekend too, but he got to cancel the tux because his girlfriend broke up
with him.

Holly, on the weekend at a grocery store, said she had never ridden a
schoolbus and would really like to. My first husband and I owned one, and
we had repainted the name as an SCA bus and took it on SCA road trips. Keith
and I had it for a while after, but Keith isn't an automechanic, so it ended
up being a shed on a farm somewhere.

Holly said she told Keith he should buy another one and he said no, it was a
really bad idea to own a bus. <g>

So Holly's next suggestion was that the homeschooling group here that does
field trips should organize a school field trip, where a yellow schoolbus
picks all the kids up in front of their houses, and takes them to a school
which is not in session and a teacher gives them a tour so they can see
what's on the walls and in the rooms and stuff.

Kirby and Marty got to ride a schoolbus once when Honeywell did a park'n'ride
to a company picnic at the zoo. The rode about six blocks and it was full of
adults, but they can say they've ridden one. Holly missed it.

We used to vote at a school, in a classroom, and Kirby and Marty got to go
there several times, and see the kids' art and papers in the hallway, and
peek into the other classrooms.

Holly missed it.

She watches Dharma and Greg, too, though, so it might have been copy-cat
regret, and then we come full circle. <bwg>

Sandra

jmcseals SEALS

<<<However!!! Just this morning, I caught myself wondering what I'm
going to say when Katie's little girlfriend comes to Idaho for a week
or so (as every summer) Same age, and I'm afraid I'll be comparing
the friend's skills and abilities to my Katie's and what will I say
etc. I'll continue absorbing this stuff, just to hang on to the bit
of confidence I have. Confident that their brains work! L and there's
a natural way of learning, and they're DOING IT.>>>

Why say anything??? Most likely, they will just want to play and have fun
together. I doubt they will be sitting around trying to solve complicated
math problems! <bg> I know it's hard not to compare sometimes. Ridding
myself of comparisons was a HUGE step towards unschooling for me. There are
days when I still have doubts. (Usually when I've been hounded by my
husband or some other family member.) What clinched it for me was my
daughter's handwriting. For YEARS, I pushes and prodded with her illegible
handwriting. We tried everything. I put off cursive until 5th grade
because I figured it she couldn't even write decently in print, how would
she ever write in cursive??? So dumb! When I threw out *my* need for
curriculum and schedules and embraced unschooling, Haleigh stopped writing
for what seemed like forever. Then, on Valentine's Day, she presented me
with the most beautifully written letter...in cursive!!!! Evidently, she
had been practicing (without me even being aware of the fact) in her Italics
workbook. I dare say her cursive is even better than the book!!! It was at
that moment that I realized that she *may* never print legibly. So what!
It still looks like chicken scratch to me. Then there is my husband who's
cursive is chicken scratch and his printing looks perfect! To each his own!

There will always be weak and strong areas for every human being on earth.
Everyone is their own worst critic, would you agree? If Katie feels 'less
than' compared to her friend, trust that SHE will do something about it for
her own pleasure, peace of mind, personal challenge, whatever.

You are doing a great job!! If you have a doubts or the need to compare
comes up, RUN to your room, write in on a piece of paper and rip it to
shreads! Then go back and joyfully watch the girls having a good time
together!

It's just unschooling growing pains you are going through...I think we've
all had them! :)

Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deborah Lewis

<< I wonder how many people who send there kids to school have
researched
education, why it is done, where it began, philosophy, etc...I have never

read so much on one topic as with schooling, unschooling, homeschooling,
children,etc..And yet what am I thinking of. Do I know what I am doing.
Have
I thought of their social needs...
Do I sound a little cynical. I guess somedays it gets tiring more than
others. In the morning it will look different again.
>>


I have two sisters in law who used to caution me and question me about
Dylan's "education".

One doesn't have kids and she liked to send things about the benefits of
public school and wonderful school programs, etc. She's stopped doing
that. When she would send something to me I'd send information about
unschooling to her. I don't think she ever read or researched it, I
think she just came to understand for every pro school article she could
come up with I'd cheerfully send ten articles, web sites, studies,
testimonials, supporting unschooling.

The other has three girls, all in public school. When she would start
with the "aren't you afraid he won't know how to talk to kids his own
age" stuff I would say, in a most sympathetic and concerned way, that
I'd just seen where two kids killed a classmate and a teacher was
arrested for sexual abuse of a student and a school had slime mold
contamination and how about that head lice out break and how sad her
middle daughter was being teased for being heavy and that must make her
feel sad as a parent, sending her off to school to be tortured and
humiliated everyday... and now I don't hear so much about what Dylan is
missing in public school. Now I hear about what a happy kid I have and
how curious he is and how interested he seems in everything.

We don't need to take other people's crap. They don't need to deliver
it to us unsolicited. We don't need to be afraid to speak our minds to
people so intent on speaking theirs.

It's not rude to tell a rude person to zip it.

Deb L

Jenny E.

From: <CelticFrau@...>


> so they
> just believe what the schools tell them so they'll feel their kids are
> getting all they need at George Washington Elementary. "Let's not read any
> of those articles or books explaining why the schools are failing, let's just
> vote for the next school levy and give them more money...

I was just saying to my husband last that that the mom next door (whose son is my boys' best friend) is always saying that she is thinking about pulling her son out of school in 6th grade (he is in 1st now). She says that right now "X-school is a really good school..." I really want to ask her just exactly what does that mean. What is it that makes it a good school? I suspect she really wouldn't even know her own reasons for saying that....most likely just a regurgitation of what she has heard others say.

Jen :o)
Mom to Beck (7) and Dane (4)

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/03 10:08:48 AM, jmcseals@... writes:

<< You are doing a great job!! If you have a doubts or the need to compare
comes up, RUN to your room, write in on a piece of paper and rip it to
shreads! Then go back and joyfully watch the girls having a good time
together! >>

Yeah, or come and tell us! LOL!

This is a great venting place when relatives or neighbors or grocery store
clerks say that irritating thing One More Time. <g>

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2003 12:28:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mom2jrjedis@... writes:


> I was just saying to my husband last that that the mom next door (whose son
> is my boys' best friend) is always saying that she is thinking about
> pulling her son out of school in 6th grade (he is in 1st now). She says
> that right now "X-school is a really good school..." I really want to ask
> her just exactly what does that mean. What is it that makes it a good
> school?

Around here it means that it's still "elementary". Middle school is the place
where the REALLY dangerous stuff starts to happen (and that's 5th grade
here). The public schools are jam-packed through 4th. There's a trickle into
the private schools and homeschooling in 5th. And DROVES in 6th. The few
children whose parents are willing to stick it out until 7th or 8th are often
out of luck unless they have enough $$ to buy their way in. The "better"
private schools here don't take high schoool kids---unless they're
EXCEPTIONAL students and can raise the school's averages and practically
guarantee Ivy League admittance.

Strange, but true!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heather Woodward

----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Was: Deschooling? or being lazy?; Family Interferences


This is going to be a specifically American response; sorry to other
nationals reading.

<< so they
just believe what the schools tell them so they'll feel their kids are
getting all they need at George Washington Elementary. >>

There's another social aspect which affects all manner of parents whose kids
are in government school. It has been considered unpatriotic in many ways to
have children in private schools. And homeschooling is seen in some ways as
the ultimate privacy.

"All men are created equal" has never been true in an objective-truth way,
but it's a central myth and the pretence and appearance of it are enhanced by
the idea that all children would receive the same education, and rub elbows
with other Americans as they grow up.

Kids in rich prep schools are living in a much older tradition, pre-dating
public schooling and pre-dating compulsory education. Kids in parochial
schools are in a hybrid situation, but there are still people who don't think
parochial education should have ever been legal in the U.S. And lately
(lately twenty years) lots of lamer "Christian" equivalent schools have
sprung up, many of them run in church basements or Sunday school rooms during
the week, and are just A Beka done at the church table instead of the kitchen
table at home. Some of those "schools" are just an extension of the church
daycare system through 8th or 12th grade.

So the turmoil of protecting the monolithic and central public school system
in the U.S. is not even of our doing at all, yet we're easier targets because
we didn't even stay to participate in the fight. We "abandoned the schools,"
and (they will say) don't even care what happens to other people's kids. We
took some of the best kids out (teachers have said many times) and that makes
their job harder, and the student body averages are lower (? socially? for
testing purposes? as far as who was sparkly and interesting? whose moms would
bring cupcakes? some or all of that).

Too bad the class sizes aren't lower! THAT is what I wish would happen.
That funding would change so that each of our kids left "an empty desk" and
the student teacher ratio would finally be closer to manageable and
personable. But the school just shrinks like an evaporating puddle so that
they're still just as crowded and just as outnumbered, because they get a
per-head count of who's there, not a per-head of who's in the the community.
And that's too bad. If half the kids are out in other places, they should
have twice as much money and teachers and room for the kids who are left.
Then we'd be a benefit to the schools directly.

Sandra

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heather Woodward

But the school just shrinks like an evaporating puddle so that
they're still just as crowded and just as outnumbered, because they get a
per-head count of who's there, not a per-head of who's in the the community.
And that's too bad. If half the kids are out in other places, they should
have twice as much money and teachers and room for the kids who are left.
Then we'd be a benefit to the schools directly.

Sandra

This is about the best idea I have ssen as far as public school goes - maybe you should run for public office ;-)



----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Was: Deschooling? or being lazy?; Family Interferences


This is going to be a specifically American response; sorry to other
nationals reading.

<< so they
just believe what the schools tell them so they'll feel their kids are
getting all they need at George Washington Elementary. >>

There's another social aspect which affects all manner of parents whose kids
are in government school. It has been considered unpatriotic in many ways to
have children in private schools. And homeschooling is seen in some ways as
the ultimate privacy.

"All men are created equal" has never been true in an objective-truth way,
but it's a central myth and the pretence and appearance of it are enhanced by
the idea that all children would receive the same education, and rub elbows
with other Americans as they grow up.

Kids in rich prep schools are living in a much older tradition, pre-dating
public schooling and pre-dating compulsory education. Kids in parochial
schools are in a hybrid situation, but there are still people who don't think
parochial education should have ever been legal in the U.S. And lately
(lately twenty years) lots of lamer "Christian" equivalent schools have
sprung up, many of them run in church basements or Sunday school rooms during
the week, and are just A Beka done at the church table instead of the kitchen
table at home. Some of those "schools" are just an extension of the church
daycare system through 8th or 12th grade.

So the turmoil of protecting the monolithic and central public school system
in the U.S. is not even of our doing at all, yet we're easier targets because
we didn't even stay to participate in the fight. We "abandoned the schools,"
and (they will say) don't even care what happens to other people's kids. We
took some of the best kids out (teachers have said many times) and that makes
their job harder, and the student body averages are lower (? socially? for
testing purposes? as far as who was sparkly and interesting? whose moms would
bring cupcakes? some or all of that).

Too bad the class sizes aren't lower! THAT is what I wish would happen.
That funding would change so that each of our kids left "an empty desk" and
the student teacher ratio would finally be closer to manageable and
personable. But the school just shrinks like an evaporating puddle so that
they're still just as crowded and just as outnumbered, because they get a
per-head count of who's there, not a per-head of who's in the the community.
And that's too bad. If half the kids are out in other places, they should
have twice as much money and teachers and room for the kids who are left.
Then we'd be a benefit to the schools directly.

Sandra

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

Jennifer!!! wonderful, wonderful! I was just having a bad schooling
moment.

"What to say" just means what'll I say when my friend (Katie's
friend's mom, one of my best friends) asks "How's the homeschooling
going?" I'm just gonna say "she's doing great. Learning at her own
pace has been so good for Katie." The girls will play and have fun
together, and I'll most likely be helping my girlfriend with the ugly
aftermath of the sudden death of her ex-husband (the little girl's
dad) last fall. My friend wouldn't be coming to the area if she
didn't have strange estate matters to deal with. So it won't come up
at all, I'm thinking.

thanks again for a (printandsticktothewall-able) great post!

HeidiC


--- In [email protected], "jmcseals SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
>
> <<<However!!! Just this morning, I caught myself wondering what I'm
> going to say when Katie's little girlfriend comes to Idaho for a
week
> or so (as every summer) Same age, and I'm afraid I'll be comparing
> the friend's skills and abilities to my Katie's and what will I say
> etc. I'll continue absorbing this stuff, just to hang on to the bit
> of confidence I have. Confident that their brains work! L and
there's
> a natural way of learning, and they're DOING IT.>>>
>
> Why say anything??? Most likely, they will just want to play and
have fun
> together. I doubt they will be sitting around trying to solve
complicated
> math problems! <bg> I know it's hard not to compare sometimes.
Ridding
> myself of comparisons was a HUGE step towards unschooling for me.
There are
> days when I still have doubts. (Usually when I've been hounded by
my
> husband or some other family member.) What clinched it for me was
my
> daughter's handwriting. For YEARS, I pushes and prodded with her
illegible
> handwriting. We tried everything. I put off cursive until 5th
grade
> because I figured it she couldn't even write decently in print, how
would
> she ever write in cursive??? So dumb! When I threw out *my* need
for
> curriculum and schedules and embraced unschooling, Haleigh stopped
writing
> for what seemed like forever. Then, on Valentine's Day, she
presented me
> with the most beautifully written letter...in cursive!!!!
Evidently, she
> had been practicing (without me even being aware of the fact) in
her Italics
> workbook. I dare say her cursive is even better than the book!!!
It was at
> that moment that I realized that she *may* never print legibly. So
what!
> It still looks like chicken scratch to me. Then there is my
husband who's
> cursive is chicken scratch and his printing looks perfect! To each
his own!
>
> There will always be weak and strong areas for every human being on
earth.
> Everyone is their own worst critic, would you agree? If Katie
feels 'less
> than' compared to her friend, trust that SHE will do something
about it for
> her own pleasure, peace of mind, personal challenge, whatever.
>
> You are doing a great job!! If you have a doubts or the need to
compare
> comes up, RUN to your room, write in on a piece of paper and rip it
to
> shreads! Then go back and joyfully watch the girls having a good
time
> together!
>
> It's just unschooling growing pains you are going through...I think
we've
> all had them! :)
>
> Jennifer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

**My friend wouldn't be coming to the area if she
didn't have strange estate matters to deal with. So it won't come up
at all, I'm thinking.
**

I think you are right. But if it *does* come up, you can sweetly brush
it off, like you planned.

"Oh, we're fine! Don't worry about us. How are *you* doing? Can I help?"

I don't think you'll have a hard time keeping the conversation away from
your life, with your friend having so much to deal with in her life.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/03 9:26:35 PM, bacwoodz@... writes:

<< This is about the best idea I have ssen as far as public school goes -
maybe you should run for public office ;-) >>

Hey, I've already tried being a teacher to change the system from the inside.

That's enough futile sacrifice and frustration for one lifetime without
trying to change the state's financial policies from the inside! <bwg>

Anyway, I'd have to have my hair done and wear heels and dress to get votes.
I'd have to hobnob with power-hungry school-worshippers. I'd rather stay
here and watch movies with my kids.

Sandra

Sandra

jmcseals SEALS

<<<I'm just gonna say "she's doing great. Learning at her own
pace has been so good for Katie." >>>

Sounds like a plan to me! Beautiful response! The nice thing about this
response is it opens the door to sharing what Katie enjoys, rather than
comparative comments. I'm so sorry to hear of their loss. I agree, I doubt
schooling will even come up. It sounds like you are a wonderful friend.
I'm sure it will be very healing for them both to be near their best buddies
during such a stressful time. :)
Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]