children & the universe (was Re: moms doing what they want)
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/30/03 5:41:26 PM, melindav98@... writes:
<< And I think it makes them stronger to have to do things for themselves
sometimes (play quietly in their room, play the keyboard/guitar without an
audience sometimes, etc) rather than knowing "Oh boy! The world really DOES
revolve around me!" I'm afraid if it still did, they'd get a very rude
awakening later in life. :(
them cry it out or feed them on a schedule so they wouldn't believe the world
revolved around them?
Some people do.
And the world DOES revolve around an infant. He knows no world except his
own.
Here's something I realized, when I was looking for it, isn't online. This
might not be the finally edited version, either, but it was in Home education
Magazine last spring.
How Holly Takes the World for Granted
There is a photo of me, with a column I wrote, in the November/December issue
of HEM. Holly, at nine, took the photo. She took lots of me, with a
disposable camera, in a little wooded place of her choosing. She picked her
favorites, and we sent
them in.
So I took the just-arrived issue to her and showed her the cover, and
then page 56, and said "Look! They used one of
the pictures you took!"
She looked at it, looked at me, smiled (somewhere
between wanly and half-heartedly) and said "Cool!
Thanks for showing me that." And she went back to
the pattern-puzzle she was working in her lap (one
of those with the cars, I think—Rush Hour) and
the to TV show she was watching.
Okay then.
Being published in an international magazine
doesn't thrill her. It still thrills me when my
name's in the fine print in a regional newsletter,
so maybe I know how big the world is and she (at
nine) doesn't. Or maybe I'm more easily thrilled.
But I think Holly takes the world for granted.
And why not? The world is hers.
The world wasn't mine when I was little. It
belonged to grownups, and I was told how to sit,
what to say, what to eat and how to hold the
spoon. I was told where to play, who with, and
how long. If I got dirty or tore my clothes I was
in trouble. I was told what was good and what was
bad.
Holly takes the world for granted, and I'm
thrilled about that.
One of my online friends, Anne Ohman, wrote this and gave me permission to
quote it: "I know that when I sat in a Catholic church and the priest asked
me to repeat, "Lord, I am not Worthy to Receive You..." I knew it wasn't My
Truth. I HAD to believe I was worthy...even though this was the message I was
receiving everywhere...home, school, church...I just HAD to hold onto the
tiniest glimmer of Hope that I WAS worthy of the beautiful gifts of Life."
I remember once I was a teenager, walking with several friends of mine, going
north on Lower San Pedro Road, which parallels the Rio Grande in Espanola.
We were walking slowly, playing with sticks and rocks. I don't remember what
the subject matter was, but I said "I wonder how they do it in the REAL
world." One of them said "This IS the real world."
I didn't quite believe it.
There I was with Jon Tsosie, from Santa Clara Pueblo, across the river; and
DiAna Trujillo, whose dad was in the Bataan death march (yet living up the
road); and I think John DePaula was there that day, whose dad was from
Queens, NY, and whose mom was from Trinidad, Colorado. Maybe another kid or
two. I thought the real world was far from us. That we were spectators and
marginal not-even characters.
Maybe I thought that if you were good in school, you could grow up and become
a real adult with job. And if you were good in New Mexico, you could grow up
and move to a more real place. But somehow I had the idea that "real" was
elsewhere. And "important" was not me.
In the years since then I've slowly grown to have a much different point of
view. But in Holly, when I showed her that picture, I saw that she doesn't
worship "elsewhere" and she doesn't envy "other." She feels as real and as
right as rain. "As right as rain." A natural, worthwhile, real part of
everything around her.
My friend Mark grew up in North Dakota, and his relatives were of German
farming families. They were Lutheran. There was no nonsense. The way that
Mark was put in his small place was that he was told "You are full of
yourself." It wasn't said in a positive or a good way. It was intended to
be a deflating insult. Mark doesn't have children, but we've talked a lot
about being and having children. He likes that my children are full of
themselves, and full of the whole world.
Sometimes I'm jealous. Sometimes I think that it's a bad thing that Holly
wasn't thrilled about being published. Then I think that maybe the main
reason I am giddy at the idea of having my words in print is that it is
evidence of reality. It means I am up and out of school, and I am no longer
just in New Mexico. And then that awareness brings me full circle. Holly
will not have to overcome the fear that she is unworthy.
I remember one of the icons of hippiedom, the Desiderata. It said "You are a
child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars." That was a
radical thought in the 1960's, for some people. Belonging naturally to all
that's around you. Being as solid and as real as a tree.
This is what unschooling, though, has done for Holly. She is not a student.
She is Holly. She is not a fourth grader. She is Holly Dodd. She has been
since birth, and she will be until or unless she decides to go by another
name, but that will be her decision. The world is hers in a way that the
world has never been mine, not even now as an adult. Sometimes I see myself
as a messy amalgamation of experiences, certificates, test scores and labels,
just come lately into the real world.
I see my children living full, real lives today, right now. I don't see them
as students in preparation for life, who after a number of years and lessons
might be considered "completed" or "graduated." It was a long way to come,
and I never even had to move. I just had to look at what I considered to be
real.
The Desiderata was written by Max Erhmann, and for those who missed it then
or had it then and have missed it since, here it is:
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in
silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all
persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly and listen to others, even the
dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexations to the spirit. If you
compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter, for always
there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your
achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession
in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue
there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of
heroism.
Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about
love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as
the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of
youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do
not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and
loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You
have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the
universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive God to be; and whatever
your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with
your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful
world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
by Max Erhmann, 1927
<< And I think it makes them stronger to have to do things for themselves
sometimes (play quietly in their room, play the keyboard/guitar without an
audience sometimes, etc) rather than knowing "Oh boy! The world really DOES
revolve around me!" I'm afraid if it still did, they'd get a very rude
awakening later in life. :(
>>How far back do you take that rationale, though? To infancy? Did you make
them cry it out or feed them on a schedule so they wouldn't believe the world
revolved around them?
Some people do.
And the world DOES revolve around an infant. He knows no world except his
own.
Here's something I realized, when I was looking for it, isn't online. This
might not be the finally edited version, either, but it was in Home education
Magazine last spring.
How Holly Takes the World for Granted
There is a photo of me, with a column I wrote, in the November/December issue
of HEM. Holly, at nine, took the photo. She took lots of me, with a
disposable camera, in a little wooded place of her choosing. She picked her
favorites, and we sent
them in.
So I took the just-arrived issue to her and showed her the cover, and
then page 56, and said "Look! They used one of
the pictures you took!"
She looked at it, looked at me, smiled (somewhere
between wanly and half-heartedly) and said "Cool!
Thanks for showing me that." And she went back to
the pattern-puzzle she was working in her lap (one
of those with the cars, I think—Rush Hour) and
the to TV show she was watching.
Okay then.
Being published in an international magazine
doesn't thrill her. It still thrills me when my
name's in the fine print in a regional newsletter,
so maybe I know how big the world is and she (at
nine) doesn't. Or maybe I'm more easily thrilled.
But I think Holly takes the world for granted.
And why not? The world is hers.
The world wasn't mine when I was little. It
belonged to grownups, and I was told how to sit,
what to say, what to eat and how to hold the
spoon. I was told where to play, who with, and
how long. If I got dirty or tore my clothes I was
in trouble. I was told what was good and what was
bad.
Holly takes the world for granted, and I'm
thrilled about that.
One of my online friends, Anne Ohman, wrote this and gave me permission to
quote it: "I know that when I sat in a Catholic church and the priest asked
me to repeat, "Lord, I am not Worthy to Receive You..." I knew it wasn't My
Truth. I HAD to believe I was worthy...even though this was the message I was
receiving everywhere...home, school, church...I just HAD to hold onto the
tiniest glimmer of Hope that I WAS worthy of the beautiful gifts of Life."
I remember once I was a teenager, walking with several friends of mine, going
north on Lower San Pedro Road, which parallels the Rio Grande in Espanola.
We were walking slowly, playing with sticks and rocks. I don't remember what
the subject matter was, but I said "I wonder how they do it in the REAL
world." One of them said "This IS the real world."
I didn't quite believe it.
There I was with Jon Tsosie, from Santa Clara Pueblo, across the river; and
DiAna Trujillo, whose dad was in the Bataan death march (yet living up the
road); and I think John DePaula was there that day, whose dad was from
Queens, NY, and whose mom was from Trinidad, Colorado. Maybe another kid or
two. I thought the real world was far from us. That we were spectators and
marginal not-even characters.
Maybe I thought that if you were good in school, you could grow up and become
a real adult with job. And if you were good in New Mexico, you could grow up
and move to a more real place. But somehow I had the idea that "real" was
elsewhere. And "important" was not me.
In the years since then I've slowly grown to have a much different point of
view. But in Holly, when I showed her that picture, I saw that she doesn't
worship "elsewhere" and she doesn't envy "other." She feels as real and as
right as rain. "As right as rain." A natural, worthwhile, real part of
everything around her.
My friend Mark grew up in North Dakota, and his relatives were of German
farming families. They were Lutheran. There was no nonsense. The way that
Mark was put in his small place was that he was told "You are full of
yourself." It wasn't said in a positive or a good way. It was intended to
be a deflating insult. Mark doesn't have children, but we've talked a lot
about being and having children. He likes that my children are full of
themselves, and full of the whole world.
Sometimes I'm jealous. Sometimes I think that it's a bad thing that Holly
wasn't thrilled about being published. Then I think that maybe the main
reason I am giddy at the idea of having my words in print is that it is
evidence of reality. It means I am up and out of school, and I am no longer
just in New Mexico. And then that awareness brings me full circle. Holly
will not have to overcome the fear that she is unworthy.
I remember one of the icons of hippiedom, the Desiderata. It said "You are a
child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars." That was a
radical thought in the 1960's, for some people. Belonging naturally to all
that's around you. Being as solid and as real as a tree.
This is what unschooling, though, has done for Holly. She is not a student.
She is Holly. She is not a fourth grader. She is Holly Dodd. She has been
since birth, and she will be until or unless she decides to go by another
name, but that will be her decision. The world is hers in a way that the
world has never been mine, not even now as an adult. Sometimes I see myself
as a messy amalgamation of experiences, certificates, test scores and labels,
just come lately into the real world.
I see my children living full, real lives today, right now. I don't see them
as students in preparation for life, who after a number of years and lessons
might be considered "completed" or "graduated." It was a long way to come,
and I never even had to move. I just had to look at what I considered to be
real.
The Desiderata was written by Max Erhmann, and for those who missed it then
or had it then and have missed it since, here it is:
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in
silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all
persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly and listen to others, even the
dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexations to the spirit. If you
compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter, for always
there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your
achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession
in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue
there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of
heroism.
Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about
love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as
the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of
youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do
not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and
loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You
have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the
universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive God to be; and whatever
your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with
your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful
world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
by Max Erhmann, 1927
Kelli Traaseth
Sandra,
This is so wonderful. I hadn't read that before, your article or The
Desiderata. Coming from the same type of background as Mark in your
article, I can relate. It brings tears to my eyes.
Thanks,
Kelli
This is so wonderful. I hadn't read that before, your article or The
Desiderata. Coming from the same type of background as Mark in your
article, I can relate. It brings tears to my eyes.
Thanks,
Kelli
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:18 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] children & the universe (was Re: moms doing
what they want)
>
> In a message dated 4/30/03 5:41:26 PM, melindav98@... writes:
>
> << And I think it makes them stronger to have to do things for themselves
> sometimes (play quietly in their room, play the keyboard/guitar without an
> audience sometimes, etc) rather than knowing "Oh boy! The world really
DOES
> revolve around me!" I'm afraid if it still did, they'd get a very rude
> awakening later in life. :(
> >>
>
> How far back do you take that rationale, though? To infancy? Did you
make
> them cry it out or feed them on a schedule so they wouldn't believe the
world
> revolved around them?
>
> Some people do.
>
> And the world DOES revolve around an infant. He knows no world except his
> own.
>
> Here's something I realized, when I was looking for it, isn't online.
This
> might not be the finally edited version, either, but it was in Home
education
> Magazine last spring.
>
>
> How Holly Takes the World for Granted
>
>
>
> There is a photo of me, with a column I wrote, in the November/December
issue
> of HEM. Holly, at nine, took the photo. She took lots of me, with a
> disposable camera, in a little wooded place of her choosing. She picked
her
> favorites, and we sent
> them in.
>
> So I took the just-arrived issue to her and showed her the cover, and
> then page 56, and said "Look! They used one of
> the pictures you took!"
>
> She looked at it, looked at me, smiled (somewhere
> between wanly and half-heartedly) and said "Cool!
> Thanks for showing me that." And she went back to
> the pattern-puzzle she was working in her lap (one
> of those with the cars, I think—Rush Hour) and
> the to TV show she was watching.
>
> Okay then.
>
> Being published in an international magazine
> doesn't thrill her. It still thrills me when my
> name's in the fine print in a regional newsletter,
> so maybe I know how big the world is and she (at
> nine) doesn't. Or maybe I'm more easily thrilled.
>
> But I think Holly takes the world for granted.
> And why not? The world is hers.
>
> The world wasn't mine when I was little. It
> belonged to grownups, and I was told how to sit,
> what to say, what to eat and how to hold the
> spoon. I was told where to play, who with, and
> how long. If I got dirty or tore my clothes I was
> in trouble. I was told what was good and what was
> bad.
>
> Holly takes the world for granted, and I'm
> thrilled about that.
>
> One of my online friends, Anne Ohman, wrote this and gave me permission to
> quote it: "I know that when I sat in a Catholic church and the priest
asked
> me to repeat, "Lord, I am not Worthy to Receive You..." I knew it wasn't
My
> Truth. I HAD to believe I was worthy...even though this was the message I
was
> receiving everywhere...home, school, church...I just HAD to hold onto the
> tiniest glimmer of Hope that I WAS worthy of the beautiful gifts of Life."
>
> I remember once I was a teenager, walking with several friends of mine,
going
> north on Lower San Pedro Road, which parallels the Rio Grande in Espanola.
> We were walking slowly, playing with sticks and rocks. I don't remember
what
> the subject matter was, but I said "I wonder how they do it in the REAL
> world." One of them said "This IS the real world."
>
> I didn't quite believe it.
>
> There I was with Jon Tsosie, from Santa Clara Pueblo, across the river;
and
> DiAna Trujillo, whose dad was in the Bataan death march (yet living up the
> road); and I think John DePaula was there that day, whose dad was from
> Queens, NY, and whose mom was from Trinidad, Colorado. Maybe another kid
or
> two. I thought the real world was far from us. That we were spectators
and
> marginal not-even characters.
>
> Maybe I thought that if you were good in school, you could grow up and
become
> a real adult with job. And if you were good in New Mexico, you could grow
up
> and move to a more real place. But somehow I had the idea that "real" was
> elsewhere. And "important" was not me.
>
> In the years since then I've slowly grown to have a much different point
of
> view. But in Holly, when I showed her that picture, I saw that she
doesn't
> worship "elsewhere" and she doesn't envy "other." She feels as real and
as
> right as rain. "As right as rain." A natural, worthwhile, real part of
> everything around her.
>
> My friend Mark grew up in North Dakota, and his relatives were of German
> farming families. They were Lutheran. There was no nonsense. The way
that
> Mark was put in his small place was that he was told "You are full of
> yourself." It wasn't said in a positive or a good way. It was intended
to
> be a deflating insult. Mark doesn't have children, but we've talked a lot
> about being and having children. He likes that my children are full of
> themselves, and full of the whole world.
>
> Sometimes I'm jealous. Sometimes I think that it's a bad thing that Holly
> wasn't thrilled about being published. Then I think that maybe the main
> reason I am giddy at the idea of having my words in print is that it is
> evidence of reality. It means I am up and out of school, and I am no
longer
> just in New Mexico. And then that awareness brings me full circle. Holly
> will not have to overcome the fear that she is unworthy.
>
> I remember one of the icons of hippiedom, the Desiderata. It said "You
are a
> child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars." That was a
> radical thought in the 1960's, for some people. Belonging naturally to
all
> that's around you. Being as solid and as real as a tree.
>
> This is what unschooling, though, has done for Holly. She is not a
student.
> She is Holly. She is not a fourth grader. She is Holly Dodd. She has
been
> since birth, and she will be until or unless she decides to go by another
> name, but that will be her decision. The world is hers in a way that the
> world has never been mine, not even now as an adult. Sometimes I see
myself
> as a messy amalgamation of experiences, certificates, test scores and
labels,
> just come lately into the real world.
>
> I see my children living full, real lives today, right now. I don't see
them
> as students in preparation for life, who after a number of years and
lessons
> might be considered "completed" or "graduated." It was a long way to
come,
> and I never even had to move. I just had to look at what I considered to
be
> real.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Desiderata was written by Max Erhmann, and for those who missed it
then
> or had it then and have missed it since, here it is:
>
> Desiderata
>
>
> Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be
in
> silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all
> persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly and listen to others, even
the
> dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
>
> Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexations to the spirit. If
you
> compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter, for always
> there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your
> achievements as well as your plans.
>
> Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real
possession
> in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business
affairs,
> for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what
virtue
> there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full
of
> heroism.
>
> Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about
> love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as
> the grass.
>
> Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things
of
> youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But
do
> not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and
> loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
>
> You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You
> have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt
the
> universe is unfolding as it should.
>
> Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive God to be; and
whatever
> your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace
with
> your soul.
>
> With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful
> world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
>
> by Max Erhmann, 1927
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Melinda
"How far back do you take that rationale, though? To infancy? Did you make
them cry it out or feed them on a schedule so they wouldn't believe the world
revolved around them?"
Not at all. But there is a time when everyone has to "grow up" - even slowly - and learn that they need to be independent at times.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
them cry it out or feed them on a schedule so they wouldn't believe the world
revolved around them?"
Not at all. But there is a time when everyone has to "grow up" - even slowly - and learn that they need to be independent at times.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melinda
And yes, I made a typo in my last post. Please no one tell me I shouldn't be teaching my son if I can't spell!! LOL It's just one of those brain-overload days...so tired I can't even think, much less type. :(
----- Original Message -----
From: Melinda
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] children & the universe (was Re: moms doing what they want)
"How far back do you take that rationale, though? To infancy? Did you make
them cry it out or feed them on a schedule so they wouldn't believe the world
revolved around them?"
Not at all. But there is a time when everyone has to "grow up" - even slowly - and learn that they need to be independent at times.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]