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In a message dated 5/1/03 8:00:48 AM, unolist@... writes:

<< This time I told her I am not going to engage in it anymore. So of course
she
let her room get totally trashed. I started getting impatient waiting for her
to take responsibility. I told her to keep the door shut, and she is so
forgetful, she doesn't. >>

The more you used to enforce it, the longer and farther the pendulum will
have to swing. She will show you the negative image of the positive image
you used to enforce on her first. So maybe, kind of in penance and as a
learning opportunity, just see that clearly and breathe through it.

Holly's room used to be a mess, but now she's 11, changed rooms, and that
room has not gotten messed up at all since she moved in six or seven months
ago. Kirby's was cleaned thoroughly a month and some ago and is in better
shape now than when it was first cleaned! Marty's is usually the neatest.
At the moment it's pretty messy (for Marty), and so I expect that one day in
a week or two he'll hole up in there and listen to music and clean, clean,
clean.

-=-I bitched her out and demanded she clean it. Over a book and towels
that really shouldn't matter. UGH! -=-

Destruction of property's not cool. I wouldn't want a book ruined.

But you could have gone in and picked up towels or other public stuff instead
of (kind of) entrapping her in destruction of property. (Or em-mildewing
<g>. Contributing to the em-mildewization of property.)

-=-Maybe I should offer to help? A lot of times in the past she would just
cry
and say she can't, and she needed help. She is used to me saying no. And I
have helped before, but then i take over and organize things to my liking,
and she doesn't want that either. -=-

Maybe you could help in spurts and bits. Neither the "If I help it will be
done my way" nor "It's your room, I'm touching nothing."

I will go in and get Kirby's laundry sometimes if I'm in a laundry mood and
his isn't down the hole (there's a laundry chute from the bathroom in the
hall, and laundry goes "down the hole," ideally). If I'm in there anyway
(to watch 24, or to hear a new song, or some other invitational social
reason) I'll take dirty dishes back out with me if there are any when I leave.

I do the same for my husband and the other kids.

-=-Middle ground, oh middle ground, where are you middle ground?

-=-I don't want to be dependant on the opinions of unschoolers for every
parenting concern, but some insight would be appreciated, until I can start
doing things that work like I was born with the knowledge, without second
guessing and re-living past mistakes. -=-

Ang, I would apologize to her. Somewhere besides in or around her room.
Outside the house, for a soda or a walk or at the grocery store, strolling
down an aisle where you don't really need anything. Tell her what you told
us, about wishing her dad hadn't said "spank," and other stuff. I would ask
her what would help. Maybe she would like to have a five minute assist every
day or two. Maybe not.

I think middle ground and getting over asking for help (which you don't have
to do; I still say "help" when I'm fritzed about something with a kid, not
always on this list, but there are places I do)....

Starting that sentence over.

I think middle ground comes from philosophy and priorities. If you can get
clear on what your goals and intentions are, THAT is where you go to check
what you should do. If you have priorities in your head, and if peace is
more important than neatness, then when that second comes when you're
deciding whether to yell or walk away, you think "peace or neatness."

It's easier to clean up a room that's been messy for a year than to clean up
a relationship that's been getting moldy for even a week.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

> It's easier to clean up a room that's been messy for a year than to clean
up
> a relationship that's been getting moldy for even a week.

Another great quote!
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...