Punished by Rewards
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/30/03 1:35:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I've heard this suggested quite a few times though. Paying a child to do
something no one else wants to do. Or paying a child to do something they
really don't want to do but you want them to. So if it's isn't a good tool,
why suggest it?? >>
I've never heard anybody here suggest paying a child to do something they
don't want to, just to get them to do it.
I have heard many people mention paying a child to do something you'd
willingly pay someone to do anyway!! Why NOT pay your own child for a job
you're willing to pay for?
That's hiring someone. Not bribing.
It's still their choice to accept the job or not. If they don't agree with
your level of pay, they can refuse it.
My dh is coming up with a list of yard chores he's more than willing to pay
someone to do. The kids will be able to look at it and take on a job or two
if they wish.
He'd be willing to hire a perfect stranger to do some of the work, why not
our kids?
It's not bribery at all.
Ren
"They dined on mince, and slices of quince, Which they ate with a runcible
spoon;
And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand, they danced by the light of the
moon."
--The Owl and the Pussycat
Edward Lear
[email protected] writes:
<< I've heard this suggested quite a few times though. Paying a child to do
something no one else wants to do. Or paying a child to do something they
really don't want to do but you want them to. So if it's isn't a good tool,
why suggest it?? >>
I've never heard anybody here suggest paying a child to do something they
don't want to, just to get them to do it.
I have heard many people mention paying a child to do something you'd
willingly pay someone to do anyway!! Why NOT pay your own child for a job
you're willing to pay for?
That's hiring someone. Not bribing.
It's still their choice to accept the job or not. If they don't agree with
your level of pay, they can refuse it.
My dh is coming up with a list of yard chores he's more than willing to pay
someone to do. The kids will be able to look at it and take on a job or two
if they wish.
He'd be willing to hire a perfect stranger to do some of the work, why not
our kids?
It's not bribery at all.
Ren
"They dined on mince, and slices of quince, Which they ate with a runcible
spoon;
And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand, they danced by the light of the
moon."
--The Owl and the Pussycat
Edward Lear
Mary
From: <starsuncloud@...>
<< I've never heard anybody here suggest paying a child to do something they
don't want to, just to get them to do it.>>
I have heard many people mention paying a child to do something you'd
willingly pay someone to do anyway!! Why NOT pay your own child for a job
you're willing to pay for?
That's hiring someone. Not bribing.
It's still their choice to accept the job or not. If they don't agree with
your level of pay, they can refuse it.>>
Someone complained about their child not showering and someone else made a
statement of paying him to do so. Whatever it took to have him smell nice.
I also remember someone mentioning to pay the child to clean their room.
That's not something that I would figure most people would be able to have
someone else come and do. Most.
I personally don't have a problem with it, I was just asking why mentioning
to pay someone to do something they don't want to do is okay and then say
bribery doesn't have a place.
Mary B
<< I've never heard anybody here suggest paying a child to do something they
don't want to, just to get them to do it.>>
I have heard many people mention paying a child to do something you'd
willingly pay someone to do anyway!! Why NOT pay your own child for a job
you're willing to pay for?
That's hiring someone. Not bribing.
It's still their choice to accept the job or not. If they don't agree with
your level of pay, they can refuse it.>>
Someone complained about their child not showering and someone else made a
statement of paying him to do so. Whatever it took to have him smell nice.
I also remember someone mentioning to pay the child to clean their room.
That's not something that I would figure most people would be able to have
someone else come and do. Most.
I personally don't have a problem with it, I was just asking why mentioning
to pay someone to do something they don't want to do is okay and then say
bribery doesn't have a place.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/30/03 5:22:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Someone complained about their child not showering and someone else made a
statement of paying him to do so. Whatever it took to have him smell nice >>
Ah, but instead of the parent trying to assert their authority over a child
that has different priorities, they are offereing pay for something that
would help them function better.
It's recognizing that the shower does NOT matter to the child, but it is
important to the parent.
It was offered as one alternative to being forceful and domineering.
So bribery depends, just like a lot of things, on the situation.
It's not the best way to get someone to learn something....doesn't work very
well.
Ren
"They dined on mince, and slices of quince, Which they ate with a runcible
spoon;
And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand, they danced by the light of the
moon."
--The Owl and the Pussycat
Edward Lear
[email protected] writes:
<< Someone complained about their child not showering and someone else made a
statement of paying him to do so. Whatever it took to have him smell nice >>
Ah, but instead of the parent trying to assert their authority over a child
that has different priorities, they are offereing pay for something that
would help them function better.
It's recognizing that the shower does NOT matter to the child, but it is
important to the parent.
It was offered as one alternative to being forceful and domineering.
So bribery depends, just like a lot of things, on the situation.
It's not the best way to get someone to learn something....doesn't work very
well.
Ren
"They dined on mince, and slices of quince, Which they ate with a runcible
spoon;
And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand, they danced by the light of the
moon."
--The Owl and the Pussycat
Edward Lear
Mary
From: <starsuncloud@...>
<<So bribery depends, just like a lot of things, on the situation.
It's not the best way to get someone to learn something....doesn't work
very
well.>>
The point is it does work sometimes and why say it's not a good tool when
sometimes it is?
Mary B
<<So bribery depends, just like a lot of things, on the situation.
It's not the best way to get someone to learn something....doesn't work
very
well.>>
The point is it does work sometimes and why say it's not a good tool when
sometimes it is?
Mary B
Tia Leschke
>It might be a good tool for some things, but it's not a good tool for
> <<So bribery depends, just like a lot of things, on the situation.
> It's not the best way to get someone to learn something....doesn't work
> very
> well.>>
>
>
> The point is it does work sometimes and why say it's not a good tool when
> sometimes it is?
getting someone to learn something.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Tim and Maureen
I know personally that money is a low level motivator. Worse, if it's a "reward" for doing something I don't want to do I despise the person offering it because they are disguising their controlling me. What am I a rat you can manipulate with a morsel!!? Little people are in touch with this feeling too. They do the action, but hate it and you. So you have to up the ante over and over. One gold star, two, three, a book, a bike, a car, a sports car. On and on.
On the other hand, if we unschool, we open the world to what they want to do naturally. Intrinsic motivation. It works in business too and in management. A friend (and unschooler) has transformed a bank branch in a small town into Western Canada's top producer with intrinsic motivation - let them do what comes naturally and all HQ-Toronto manipulative "contests" and bribes never make it into his branch. The staff was relieved!!!! We can focus on what we do well and give customers service they deserve and no unnatural pushy behaviour to get the gold star. I've met these people. Wow! They rock! Still, HQ wants it to stop. Dangerous!
So, no, a job is not a bribe. But a gold star is a bribe and a manipulation. It can be subtle, but to the victim, it's as clear as crystal!
My thots,
Tim Thomas
On the other hand, if we unschool, we open the world to what they want to do naturally. Intrinsic motivation. It works in business too and in management. A friend (and unschooler) has transformed a bank branch in a small town into Western Canada's top producer with intrinsic motivation - let them do what comes naturally and all HQ-Toronto manipulative "contests" and bribes never make it into his branch. The staff was relieved!!!! We can focus on what we do well and give customers service they deserve and no unnatural pushy behaviour to get the gold star. I've met these people. Wow! They rock! Still, HQ wants it to stop. Dangerous!
So, no, a job is not a bribe. But a gold star is a bribe and a manipulation. It can be subtle, but to the victim, it's as clear as crystal!
My thots,
Tim Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Punished by Rewards
>
> <<So bribery depends, just like a lot of things, on the situation.
> It's not the best way to get someone to learn something....doesn't work
> very
> well.>>
>
>
> The point is it does work sometimes and why say it's not a good tool when
> sometimes it is?
It might be a good tool for some things, but it's not a good tool for
getting someone to learn something.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
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nellebelle
I offered to pay my 7 yod to move her clothes from her big sister's room
into her own room. (The pay wasn't to do the job, it was to let me do it.)
She got really excited and suggested $12 a week. I told her I had a one
time payment in mind. She said no.
I am still trying to figure out how to accomplish this. Big sis would love
to not have little sis's clothes strewn all over her room. I do help pick
them up, but it's hard to keep up with someone who changes multiple times
throughout the day.
I was discussing it with my mom and she suggested not allowing her to change
clothes. Get dressed for the day and that's it. I would rather have the
strewn clothes.
Mary Ellen
into her own room. (The pay wasn't to do the job, it was to let me do it.)
She got really excited and suggested $12 a week. I told her I had a one
time payment in mind. She said no.
I am still trying to figure out how to accomplish this. Big sis would love
to not have little sis's clothes strewn all over her room. I do help pick
them up, but it's hard to keep up with someone who changes multiple times
throughout the day.
I was discussing it with my mom and she suggested not allowing her to change
clothes. Get dressed for the day and that's it. I would rather have the
strewn clothes.
Mary Ellen