[email protected]

In a message dated 4/28/03 3:37:39 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<< Regular homeschool
curriculum conferences have a ready, built-in market. They'll ALL sell TONS
of merchandise---guaranteed. That's one of the main reasons for attendees to
GO! >>

Even worse, and those of you to whom this structure and religious
homeschooling stuff is new, brace yourselves:

There are many people who go to a conference and pay a special fee which ONLY
gives them access to the vendor room. Sometimes it's as little as $10. I
heard a couple of days ago of one charging something like $60 to get in to
see vendors.

They don't even go to one single talk or presentation or workshop. They're
not there to meet other homeschoolers. Some of them fear to meet other
homeschoolers. Their mission is clear, and their path is narrow and upright.
They buy what they're told to buy, browse the extra stuff, spend their
year's worth of money, and go back home.

Does anyone have a good estimate on what an upper-range amount would be for a
full curriculum and some recommended "literature" or "historical fiction"
would be in such cases?

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/28/2003 8:05:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> Does anyone have a good estimate on what an upper-range amount would be for
> a
> full curriculum and some recommended "literature" or "historical fiction"
> would be in such cases?

Too much?

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

***Does anyone have a good estimate on what an upper-range amount would be
for a full curriculum and some recommended "literature" or "historical
fiction" would be in such cases?*****

Me! Me! I know! How about upwards of $1,000 for Sonlight? Hack, hack.
They *tell* you how wonderful they are in allowing you to purchase their
book recommendations at used bookstores or through the library. What they
don't point out well enough is that many of their books are self-published.
Even books you may find elsewhere. They use *specific* books, ie. copyright
dates, etc., so what they don't make fully clear is that their manuals are
geared by page numbers. [Lesson 1: read lines 17-35 on page 26 in so and
so.]So if you bought the exact same book by the exact same author but if it
is in big print, by a different publisher or a different copyright date, the
manuals will have your head spinning.

The whole thing is set up so that you have to work 90 million times harder
to save yourself some money. And they aren't in the slightest bit ashamed
of that fact! They are more than proud to admit it! Shameful, if you ask
me.

Grrrr,
Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

Hey, I was right! I checked into Sonlight for giggles and chose 6th grade,
since it's right in the middle. For their comprehensive package, icluding
everything you need??? $1,090.71!!! HOLY SMOLY!!!

Can you IMAGINE all you could do for ONE child with that much money??
**Season** tickets to museums, zoos, amusement parks, the theater, the
opera, a PS2 WITH games, a shopping spree at a used book store, rec center
classes...ohmagosh! It is stupifying!

Jennifer


>From: "jmcseals SEALS" <jmcseals@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] vendors at conferences
>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:21:13 -0500
>
right

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/28/03 6:40:25 PM, jmcseals@... writes:

<< Can you IMAGINE all you could do for ONE child with that much money??
**Season** tickets to museums, zoos, amusement parks, the theater, the
opera, a PS2 WITH games, a shopping spree at a used book store, rec center
classes...ohmagosh! It is stupifying! >>

tsk tsk tsk...

No. Sonlight is carefully engineered.

Those wild places have false religion taught as truth (beware the "dinosaur"
museum)
primates with penises
gambling booths
glorification of humanist relationships, murder, extra-marital, pre-marital,
post-marital sex (theatre & opera)
PS2 just evil
used bookstores with SECULAR books?

Sonlight has what money can't buy.

Oh, no, wait.
You can buy it.

Sandra

Tammy

I learned about that one (sonlight) the hard way.. I spent about 98 percent
of the time organizing and re-organizing just to have it "fit" us until we
gave it up and just read the books..lol. I recently went through my "we
need structure" episode and almost bought the Oak Meadow which would end up
costing us around 1200. Yikes! The more I "listen" to this group, the more
I realize my need for structure isn't mine at all.. it's just to satisfy
others (relatives, community, etc.). I love this list. :)
Tammy



****The whole thing is set up so that you have to work 90 million times
harder to save yourself some money. And they aren't in the slightest bit
ashamed of that fact! They are more than proud to admit it! Shameful, if
you ask me.

Grrrr,
Jennifer***




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

• Do you need a computer at home? Nationally, 83.7% of homeschooled students
use a computer.

I was looking for price ranges of school at home, but instead found an
interesting and entirely unqualified statement. .7! 83.7.

Since nobody knows how many people homeschool and the counting would be
vastly different from state to state even if we COULD count (the definition
changes)... that count is based on something very limited. But it was
presented as a carefully counted fact. Not "over 80%" nor even "83%," but
83.7%

I'm amused and offended.

Sandra

Heidi

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/28/03 6:40:25 PM, jmcseals@m... writes:
>
> << Can you IMAGINE all you could do for ONE child with that much
money??
> **Season** tickets to museums, zoos, amusement parks, the theater,
the
> opera, a PS2 WITH games, a shopping spree at a used book store, rec
center
> classes...ohmagosh! It is stupifying! >>
>
> tsk tsk tsk...
>
> No. Sonlight is carefully engineered.
>
> Those wild places have false religion taught as truth (beware
the "dinosaur"
> museum)
> primates with penises
> gambling booths
> glorification of humanist relationships, murder, extra-marital, pre-
marital,
> post-marital sex (theatre & opera)
> PS2 just evil
> used bookstores with SECULAR books?

LOL Sandra! L

I've never seen Sonlight, though I've heard of it (no glowing
reports, mostly bad reports) but I do know that the Alpha-Omega
curriculum, which is PURELY fill in the blank workbooks for every
subject, cost more than $600, ten years ago. More than $600 for a
passel of cheap newsprint workbooks, for the kids to sit and fill in
the FREAKING blanks? Even before I started homeschooling, I knew that
was a bunch of malarky.


> Sonlight has what money can't buy.
>
> Oh, no, wait.
> You can buy it.

well, someone certainly figured out there was a market out there,
didn't they?

peace, HeidiC who never has used a boughten curriculum
p.s. I'm appalled at the cost of Sonlight. It's nearly as much as K12
which price includes paints and clay and plasticene and art paper and
tissue and all the books...ugh. Getting a sick stomach

Tammy

************I've never seen Sonlight, though I've heard of it (no glowing
reports, mostly bad reports) but I do know that the Alpha-Omega
curriculum, which is PURELY fill in the blank workbooks for every
subject, cost more than $600, ten years ago. More than $600 for a
passel of cheap newsprint workbooks, for the kids to sit and fill in
the FREAKING blanks? Even before I started homeschooling, I knew that
was a bunch of malarky.*********

Geesh..you are absolutely on the mark there...we tried Alpha Omega too, the
workbooks for one and the cds for another... fill in the blanks for sure!
what's the point?
Tammy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 4/28/03 9:32 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:

> Since nobody knows how many people homeschool and the counting would be
> vastly different from state to state even if we COULD count (the definition
> changes)... that count is based on something very limited. But it was
> presented as a carefully counted fact. Not "over 80%" nor even "83%," but
> 83.7%

School math. What's important is getting a precise and accurate answer from
the numbers you're can find to work with.

I had a *really* tough time grasping the concept in engineering that you
can't have greater accuracy than your least accurate piece of data. It just
went against 12 years of indoctrination that the more decimal places you had
the better your answer was. ;-)

Joyce

Fetteroll

on 4/28/03 10:54 PM, Heidi at bunsofaluminum60@... wrote:

> I've never seen Sonlight, though I've heard of it (no glowing
> reports, mostly bad reports)

Sonlight? Are you sure?

Most of the expense of Sonlight is for the books. Real books. Good books.
Usborne. DK. Good literature. They do have a curriculum to guide people
through the books but it isn't a major portion of the expense. And they
encourage you to get the books from your library or other sources.

Here's the 6-9 curriculum for Social Science:

* 6A01: The Golden Goblet - $6.99
* 6A02: The Westing Game - $5.99
* 6A04: Banner in the Sky - $5.99
* 6A05: Otto of the Silver Hand - $8.95
* 6A06: The Trojan War - $5.95
* 6A08: The Endless Steppe - $5.99
* 6A10: God's Smuggler - $12.99
* 6A11: Master Cornhill - $8.95
* 6A14: Favorite Poems Old and New - $24.95
* 6A15: I, Juan de Pareja - $5.95
* 6A19: Eagle of the Ninth - $5.95
* 6A20: The Second Mrs. Giaconda - $4.99
* 6A21: Anna and the King - $4.95
* 6A22: Number the Stars - $5.99
* 6B01: International Children's Bible Handbook - $12.99
* 6H03: George Washington's World - $15.95
* 6H04: Usborne History of the 20th Century - $10.95
* 6H12: The Kingdom Strikes Back - $1.95
* 6H32: Sonlight "6" Time Line Figures - $4.75
* 6H35: Augustus Caesar's World - $15.95
* 6H38: The World of Columbus and Sons - $15.95
* 6R03: North to Freedom - $6.00
* 6R05: The Samurai's Tale - $6.95
* 6R07: The Bronze Bow - $6.95
* 6R09: Adam of the Road - $5.99
* 6R14: Shakespeare Stealer - $5.99
* 6R15: Snow Treasure - $4.50
* 6R17: Escape from Warsaw - $4.99
* 6R24: In Search of Honor - $6.49
* 6R25: Shadow of a Bull - $4.99
* 6R27: The Phantom Tollbooth - $5.99
* 6R28: The Great & Terrible Quest - $9.95
* 6R32: It's a Jungle Out There! - $7.95
* 6R34: Mara, Daughter of the Nile - $5.99
* 6R35: The Beduins' Gazelle - $5.99
* 6R37: Martin Luther: Hero of Faith - $8.99
* 6R39: D'Aulaire's Book of Greek Myths - $19.95
* 6R40: The Mystery of the Roman Ransom - $6.00
* 6R41: Leonardo Da Vinci - Landmark - $9.95
* 6R42: Hittite Warrior - $13.95
* 6R43: Archimedes and the Door of Science - $13.95
* 6R44: The Ides of April - $11.95
* 6R45: Mary, Bloody Mary - $6.00
* 6R46: Betty Greene: Wings to Serve... - $6.99
* 6TBW: Core "6" Instructor's Guide - $35.95

*I* want to read a lot of those books! ;-) In fact I have read some of them.

They are fundamentalist Christians so the choices reflect that, but they
have a page explaining why they recommend fantasy and other things that many
fundamentalists shun.

I don't know anything about the Instructor's Guide but I like what I read at
the site and got their catalog for many years. I've read their philosophy
and admire it even if it isn't my philosophy. I've recommended them often
when Christian non-unschoolers are trying to decide between Abeka and Bob
Jones :-P

Joyce

coyote's corner

the indian word for these people is
washichu

fat eaters
those who must take everything
----- Original Message -----
From: jmcseals SEALS
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] vendors at conferences


***Does anyone have a good estimate on what an upper-range amount would be
for a full curriculum and some recommended "literature" or "historical
fiction" would be in such cases?*****

Me! Me! I know! How about upwards of $1,000 for Sonlight? Hack, hack.
They *tell* you how wonderful they are in allowing you to purchase their
book recommendations at used bookstores or through the library. What they
don't point out well enough is that many of their books are self-published.
Even books you may find elsewhere. They use *specific* books, ie. copyright
dates, etc., so what they don't make fully clear is that their manuals are
geared by page numbers. [Lesson 1: read lines 17-35 on page 26 in so and
so.]So if you bought the exact same book by the exact same author but if it
is in big print, by a different publisher or a different copyright date, the
manuals will have your head spinning.

The whole thing is set up so that you have to work 90 million times harder
to save yourself some money. And they aren't in the slightest bit ashamed
of that fact! They are more than proud to admit it! Shameful, if you ask
me.

Grrrr,
Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

coyote's corner

That is one of the reasons the Protestant Revolution came about - folks buying heaven!!

Seems like it's still going on.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] vendors at conferences



In a message dated 4/28/03 6:40:25 PM, jmcseals@... writes:

<< Can you IMAGINE all you could do for ONE child with that much money??
**Season** tickets to museums, zoos, amusement parks, the theater, the
opera, a PS2 WITH games, a shopping spree at a used book store, rec center
classes...ohmagosh! It is stupifying! >>

tsk tsk tsk...

No. Sonlight is carefully engineered.

Those wild places have false religion taught as truth (beware the "dinosaur"
museum)
primates with penises
gambling booths
glorification of humanist relationships, murder, extra-marital, pre-marital,
post-marital sex (theatre & opera)
PS2 just evil
used bookstores with SECULAR books?

Sonlight has what money can't buy.

Oh, no, wait.
You can buy it.

Sandra

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

What I've heard about Sonlight is that it's really hard to implement
in a real life. Don't think I've heard one way or the other about the
content. That booklist DOES look juicy! but seems to me, the
frustrating things I've heard about have to do with making it work.

make sense? But I've never bought a curriculum, besides a KONOS book.
so I'm not a judge of what is good and what isn't.

HeidiC


--- In [email protected], Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...>
wrote:
> on 4/28/03 10:54 PM, Heidi at bunsofaluminum60@h... wrote:
>
> > I've never seen Sonlight, though I've heard of it (no glowing
> > reports, mostly bad reports)
>
> Sonlight? Are you sure?
>
> Most of the expense of Sonlight is for the books. Real books. Good
books.
> Usborne. DK. Good literature.

Tammy

*******I'm marketing a new series of Unschooling curriculum, just $1243 per
year per
child. I anticipate that 83.47% of Unschoolers will choose to use this
curriculum, which consists of newsprint workbooks -- of blank pages.
Let me know how many you want to order.
Kathryn*********

rofl....oo lemme think... hehehe
thanks.. i'm pasting this on my desk for the next time I have curriculum
withdrawals... :)
tammy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nellebelle

Are these consumable? Does your price include the parent's manual? Do you
have some kind of a test so I know which level to buy for each child? Do
you have a pre-unschool version so that my 3 year old can pretend to
unschool while the older children are doing their unschool work? <g>

Mary Ellen

----- snip----- > I'm marketing a new series of Unschooling curriculum, just
$1243 per year per
> child. I anticipate that 83.47% of Unschoolers will choose to use this
> curriculum, which consists of newsprint workbooks -- of blank pages.

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/03 8:30:12 AM, qpwithcheese@... writes:

<< *******I'm marketing a new series of Unschooling curriculum, just $1243 per
year per
child. I anticipate that 83.47% of Unschoolers will choose to use this
curriculum, which consists of newsprint workbooks -- of blank pages.
Let me know how many you want to order.
Kathryn*********
>>

My kids each still own the spiral notebooks I bought them when we first moved
to this house. I had told them that if they filled the whole book up with
writing, single sides, any writing, copying from comics or anything, and that
I would buy that kid a video game cartridge of his or her choice.

Not one of them did it. Holly's has lots of drawings. Marty's has notes for
a video game. Kirby's is lost (he looked for it when he took driver's ed,
said he had seen it when they cleaned his room the week before).

Notebooks last a long time here! <bwg>

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/03 10:48:30 AM, nellebelle@... writes:

<< Are these consumable? Does your price include the parent's manual? Do you

have some kind of a test so I know which level to buy for each child? Do

you have a pre-unschool version so that my 3 year old can pretend to

unschool while the older children are doing their unschool work? <g> >>

I wonder if any families have ever ACTUALLY made their kids consume their
learning materials? Shredded, chopped and added like wheat germ, I could
probably down a page a day, myself. Or could chew it like gum, maybe.
Dipped in flavoring of some sort. And there would be one last bit that
didn't dissolve, I suppose. Those could be thrown at the ceiling. Or
sculpted gradually, one stuck on a day, into a papier maché (LITERALLY
machéd) sculpture.

Oh sorry, I daydreaming. Back to work.

Sandra

Heidi

Another good use for this curriculum would be origami practice, paper
airplanes, mulching the garden, sketching.

as for consuming them...hamburger stretcher' thinly cut strips, put
in with spaghetti just before serving could make a pound of pasta go
further L

I like the wads on the ceiling thing.

HEidiC

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/29/03 10:48:30 AM, nellebelle@c... writes:
>
> << Are these consumable? Does your price include the parent's
manual? Do you
>
> have some kind of a test so I know which level to buy for each
child? Do
>
> you have a pre-unschool version so that my 3 year old can pretend to
>
> unschool while the older children are doing their unschool work?
<g> >>
>
> I wonder if any families have ever ACTUALLY made their kids consume
their
> learning materials? Shredded, chopped and added like wheat germ, I
could
> probably down a page a day, myself. Or could chew it like gum,
maybe.
> Dipped in flavoring of some sort. And there would be one last bit
that
> didn't dissolve, I suppose. Those could be thrown at the ceiling.
Or
> sculpted gradually, one stuck on a day, into a papier maché
(LITERALLY
> machéd) sculpture.
>
> Oh sorry, I daydreaming. Back to work.
>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2003 7:12:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:


> Here's the 6-9 curriculum for Social Science:
>
> * 6A01: The Golden Goblet - $6.99
> * 6A02: The Westing Game - $5.99
> * 6A04: Banner in the Sky - $5.99
> * 6A05: Otto of the Silver Hand - $8.95
> * 6A06: The Trojan War - $5.95
> * 6A08: The Endless Steppe - $5.99
> * 6A10: God's Smuggler - $12.99
> * 6A11: Master Cornhill - $8.95
> * 6A14: Favorite Poems Old and New - $24.95
> * 6A15: I, Juan de Pareja - $5.95
> * 6A19: Eagle of the Ninth - $5.95
> * 6A20: The Second Mrs. Giaconda - $4.99
> * 6A21: Anna and the King - $4.95
> * 6A22: Number the Stars - $5.99
> * 6B01: International Children's Bible Handbook - $12.99
> * 6H03: George Washington's World - $15.95
> * 6H04: Usborne History of the 20th Century - $10.95
> * 6H12: The Kingdom Strikes Back - $1.95
> * 6H32: Sonlight "6" Time Line Figures - $4.75
> * 6H35: Augustus Caesar's World - $15.95
> * 6H38: The World of Columbus and Sons - $15.95
> * 6R03: North to Freedom - $6.00
> * 6R05: The Samurai's Tale - $6.95
> * 6R07: The Bronze Bow - $6.95
> * 6R09: Adam of the Road - $5.99
> * 6R14: Shakespeare Stealer - $5.99
> * 6R15: Snow Treasure - $4.50
> * 6R17: Escape from Warsaw - $4.99
> * 6R24: In Search of Honor - $6.49
> * 6R25: Shadow of a Bull - $4.99
> * 6R27: The Phantom Tollbooth - $5.99
> * 6R28: The Great & Terrible Quest - $9.95
> * 6R32: It's a Jungle Out There! - $7.95
> * 6R34: Mara, Daughter of the Nile - $5.99
> * 6R35: The Beduins' Gazelle - $5.99
> * 6R37: Martin Luther: Hero of Faith - $8.99
> * 6R39: D'Aulaire's Book of Greek Myths - $19.95
> * 6R40: The Mystery of the Roman Ransom - $6.00
> * 6R41: Leonardo Da Vinci - Landmark - $9.95
> * 6R42: Hittite Warrior - $13.95
> * 6R43: Archimedes and the Door of Science - $13.95
> * 6R44: The Ides of April - $11.95
> * 6R45: Mary, Bloody Mary - $6.00
> * 6R46: Betty Greene: Wings to Serve... - $6.99
> * 6TBW: Core "6" Instructor's Guide - $35.95
>

Joyce, this is 4 years' worth of reading? You said 6-9. And for JUST the
Social Science "class"? Cameron would have flunked 6th-9th!

~kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

> >
>
> I'm marketing a new series of Unschooling curriculum, just $1243 per year
per
> child. I anticipate that 83.47% of Unschoolers will choose to use this
> curriculum, which consists of newsprint workbooks -- of blank pages.

Nah. Too many unschooling kids are doers rather than readers and writers.
My estimate would be closer to 71.635%
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...