parenting/unschooling and little baby cries
Backstrom kelli
Hi everyone! Wow, getting through all of these emails is quite a job! I am exhausted and my head is spinning from the last couple of months of reading all of your great opinions and knowledge. Now, I must admit when I first came to your group I was totally floored and very skeptical about my own abilities to do this and about the nature of unschooling itself. So, here I am three months later still reading and still learning so much and I have to say that I am so glad that I stayed. So as I am going along now I think of you all often. I have noticed that it is really not in the "schooling" issues that I think of you all but in the "parenting" issues and I think that that is a good thing, I am redirecting my attention because I think the reality is that unschooling is a philosophy that works it's way into every faucet of family life. So, here are a couple of issues that my family is having and I am looking for some discussion on these issues with regard to personal experience and how they fit into the "unschooling" philosophy. Alright, my two year old has decided to destroy her 5 month old sister. From sun up till sundown she is on a mission. With every attempt I try to calmly explain to her that in this house nobody hurts anybody else, mommy doesn't hurt Sadie (the 2 year old) and Sadie shoudlnt hurt Nora (the baby). She often laughs at me and returns to the game of pummeling again soon after. I know this is probably just a stage but my inclination is to time her out and tell her no no and I am trying to look at it from a different lense. Maybe there is something here that she needs and I need to figure that out and work on that? Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the night. I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? My approach with Molly and Sadie was to let them kind of fuss themselves to sleep by now but tonight when I laid her down and she cried I just couldnt help but second guess myself and wonder if this was really the way to do it/ So I am looking for some advise there and lastly my 10 year old I have written about before. She is my dd from a previous relationship that ended pretty much at birth. It has been a stressful relationship ever since and he is dead set against homeschooling (never mind unschooling which I havent even mentioned) I am at a lose with her. I feel like if anyone could benefit from unschooling it would be her but I am afraid to lose custody of her and I am just afraid of the fight that will go along with pulling her out. Now when she comes home with poor grades my reactions are so different, she knows that I think school is a joke and so she is co0nfused and I just don't know what the best thing to do for her is! I am so sorry to post such a long post, but here it is! I look forward to hearing advise and experience from some great mothers and fathers out there! Kelli
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[email protected]
In a message dated 4/28/03 1:27:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? >>
My two year old doesn't.
I think for short term benefit for the parent, letting them fuss sounds
great. Long term health for the child means we put our own sleep needs on
hold for a few years if necessary and meet their needs.
I don't believe a child that is allowed to cry or fuss by themselves is going
to be as secure as a child that sleeps next to a warm body and gets their
needs met quickly.
Jalen still wakes up three or four times a night to nurse.
I was frustrated a while back, because he was getting up nearly every hour!!!
Insane for a toddler I thought.
But now he's settled into a nice pattern and is eating a lot of solids (I
guess we didn't miss that "window of opportunity" lol) and I know he's not
going to be doing this forever.
Looking back from our childrens teenhood, these few years where our children
need us intensely are going to seem so shortlived.
And our children will be so secure and happy throughout their lives, all
because we didn't ignore their desires and needs, even when it meant getting
up all night! :)
Ren
"They dined on mince, and slices of quince, Which they ate with a runcible
spoon;
And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand, they danced by the light of the
moon."
--The Owl and the Pussycat
Edward Lear
[email protected] writes:
<< Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? >>
My two year old doesn't.
I think for short term benefit for the parent, letting them fuss sounds
great. Long term health for the child means we put our own sleep needs on
hold for a few years if necessary and meet their needs.
I don't believe a child that is allowed to cry or fuss by themselves is going
to be as secure as a child that sleeps next to a warm body and gets their
needs met quickly.
Jalen still wakes up three or four times a night to nurse.
I was frustrated a while back, because he was getting up nearly every hour!!!
Insane for a toddler I thought.
But now he's settled into a nice pattern and is eating a lot of solids (I
guess we didn't miss that "window of opportunity" lol) and I know he's not
going to be doing this forever.
Looking back from our childrens teenhood, these few years where our children
need us intensely are going to seem so shortlived.
And our children will be so secure and happy throughout their lives, all
because we didn't ignore their desires and needs, even when it meant getting
up all night! :)
Ren
"They dined on mince, and slices of quince, Which they ate with a runcible
spoon;
And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand, they danced by the light of the
moon."
--The Owl and the Pussycat
Edward Lear
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/27/03 9:26:48 PM, kellibac@... writes:
<< Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? My approach with Molly and Sadie was
to let them kind of fuss themselves to sleep by now but tonight when I laid
her down and she cried I just couldnt help but second guess myself and wonder
if this was really the way to do it >>
About the baby, can you sleep with her? If she's nursing, she could nurse
when she wakes up and when you get used to that neither of you has to fully
wake up.
In the daytime, can you wear her in a sling or pack? Then the sister can't
torment her so easily?
I wouldn't say "unschooling" to the other dad. Just homeschooling, if
anything. And I would figure out a way to keep her home without him being
able to say no. If he wants a big say, make him pay big bucks, and give her
some directly for her mental anguish if she has to stay in school.
Sandra
<< Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? My approach with Molly and Sadie was
to let them kind of fuss themselves to sleep by now but tonight when I laid
her down and she cried I just couldnt help but second guess myself and wonder
if this was really the way to do it >>
About the baby, can you sleep with her? If she's nursing, she could nurse
when she wakes up and when you get used to that neither of you has to fully
wake up.
In the daytime, can you wear her in a sling or pack? Then the sister can't
torment her so easily?
I wouldn't say "unschooling" to the other dad. Just homeschooling, if
anything. And I would figure out a way to keep her home without him being
able to say no. If he wants a big say, make him pay big bucks, and give her
some directly for her mental anguish if she has to stay in school.
Sandra
Backstrom kelli
thanks for the advise Sandra:) I really appreciate it, I will use the sling more. I have one but frequently don't use it when I should be. I do nurse her during the night. I guess I get too caught up in "what she should be doing" ect without looking at my own instinct as a mother. About Molly, ugh, that's the hardest one. I will work on it. Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 4/27/03 9:26:48 PM, kellibac@... writes:
<< Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? My approach with Molly and Sadie was
to let them kind of fuss themselves to sleep by now but tonight when I laid
her down and she cried I just couldnt help but second guess myself and wonder
if this was really the way to do it >>
About the baby, can you sleep with her? If she's nursing, she could nurse
when she wakes up and when you get used to that neither of you has to fully
wake up.
In the daytime, can you wear her in a sling or pack? Then the sister can't
torment her so easily?
I wouldn't say "unschooling" to the other dad. Just homeschooling, if
anything. And I would figure out a way to keep her home without him being
able to say no. If he wants a big say, make him pay big bucks, and give her
some directly for her mental anguish if she has to stay in school.
Sandra
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SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 4/27/03 9:26:48 PM, kellibac@... writes:
<< Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? My approach with Molly and Sadie was
to let them kind of fuss themselves to sleep by now but tonight when I laid
her down and she cried I just couldnt help but second guess myself and wonder
if this was really the way to do it >>
About the baby, can you sleep with her? If she's nursing, she could nurse
when she wakes up and when you get used to that neither of you has to fully
wake up.
In the daytime, can you wear her in a sling or pack? Then the sister can't
torment her so easily?
I wouldn't say "unschooling" to the other dad. Just homeschooling, if
anything. And I would figure out a way to keep her home without him being
able to say no. If he wants a big say, make him pay big bucks, and give her
some directly for her mental anguish if she has to stay in school.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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Robin Clevenger
In a message dated 4/27/03 9:26:48 PM, kellibac@... writes:
<< Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the
night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? My approach with Molly and Sadie was
to let them kind of fuss themselves to sleep by now but tonight when I laid
her down and she cried I just couldnt help but second guess myself and
wonder
if this was really the way to do it >>
I don't think most 5 month olds will sleep through the night without some
amount of coercion. Personally, I'd rather snuggle up to sleep than cry
myself to sleep, and I'm sure that babies feel the same way. Sleeping with
babies is a good way to let them know we're there with them whenever they
need us, day or night. My son never slept through the night as a baby or
toddler. I even checked Ferber's book out of the library on sleep training
and read through all his assertions that babies *need* to learn how to go to
sleep on their own or they'll *never* learn (sound familiar in a schooled
society?). But I never could let my son cry it out, though he woke every
hour to nurse. Suddenly at age 2.5, he started sleeping through the night
and has done so ever since. Like everything, kids will do it when they're
developmentally ready. He's such a sound sleeper now you can't wake him up
for anything! So much for needing to be taught... I'd say just bring your
baby in bed with you and when she awakes, comfort or nurse her. She'll grow
out of it soon enough. Now that I have no babies in bed with me (and won't
until maybe grandchildren some day), I do miss it.
As for the 2 year old, I'd concentrate on finding ways to make the whole
situation safe. Obviously, she's not going to learn to not pummel her sister
for awhile, she's in that toddler developmental stage and time will
eventually change this. I found that my sling was really helpful when my
second baby was born - I kept her in it for a lot of the day so that she
could just be with me whatever I was doing with my son. It gave me a lot
more time and freedom to concentrate on doing things with him because she
was just right there with me and could nurse or whatever. She was also out
of harm's way, a definite side-benefit when you also have an active toddler!
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
<< Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the
night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? My approach with Molly and Sadie was
to let them kind of fuss themselves to sleep by now but tonight when I laid
her down and she cried I just couldnt help but second guess myself and
wonder
if this was really the way to do it >>
I don't think most 5 month olds will sleep through the night without some
amount of coercion. Personally, I'd rather snuggle up to sleep than cry
myself to sleep, and I'm sure that babies feel the same way. Sleeping with
babies is a good way to let them know we're there with them whenever they
need us, day or night. My son never slept through the night as a baby or
toddler. I even checked Ferber's book out of the library on sleep training
and read through all his assertions that babies *need* to learn how to go to
sleep on their own or they'll *never* learn (sound familiar in a schooled
society?). But I never could let my son cry it out, though he woke every
hour to nurse. Suddenly at age 2.5, he started sleeping through the night
and has done so ever since. Like everything, kids will do it when they're
developmentally ready. He's such a sound sleeper now you can't wake him up
for anything! So much for needing to be taught... I'd say just bring your
baby in bed with you and when she awakes, comfort or nurse her. She'll grow
out of it soon enough. Now that I have no babies in bed with me (and won't
until maybe grandchildren some day), I do miss it.
As for the 2 year old, I'd concentrate on finding ways to make the whole
situation safe. Obviously, she's not going to learn to not pummel her sister
for awhile, she's in that toddler developmental stage and time will
eventually change this. I found that my sling was really helpful when my
second baby was born - I kept her in it for a lot of the day so that she
could just be with me whatever I was doing with my son. It gave me a lot
more time and freedom to concentrate on doing things with him because she
was just right there with me and could nurse or whatever. She was also out
of harm's way, a definite side-benefit when you also have an active toddler!
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
Tia Leschke
> And our children will be so secure and happy throughout their lives, allgetting
> because we didn't ignore their desires and needs, even when it meant
> up all night! :)My daughter tries to remember this when the 2 1/2 year old and the 8 month
old tag team nurse all night. <g>
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? >>
My two year old doesn't.
And our four and a half year old doesn't. On the good nights he comes in
quietly with no crying, on the bad nights he screams and we get him. My
three and a half year old sleeps through just fine. I think each child is
different, it takes them longer to build that comfort level. Babies get
hungry, as do toddlers. Older ones have dreams or hear noises or just can't
sleep alone.
Soon enough they'll be on their own. I don't worry or complain most nights.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? >>
My two year old doesn't.
And our four and a half year old doesn't. On the good nights he comes in
quietly with no crying, on the bad nights he screams and we get him. My
three and a half year old sleeps through just fine. I think each child is
different, it takes them longer to build that comfort level. Babies get
hungry, as do toddlers. Older ones have dreams or hear noises or just can't
sleep alone.
Soon enough they'll be on their own. I don't worry or complain most nights.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rebecca DeLong
starsuncloud@... wrote:
<<<My two year old doesn't.>>>
My, almost 2yr old, doesn't either.
<<<Jalen still wakes up three or four times a night to nurse.
I was frustrated a while back, because he was getting up nearly every hour!!!
Insane for a toddler I thought.
But now he's settled into a nice pattern and is eating a lot of solids (I
guess we didn't miss that "window of opportunity" lol)>>>
Avery is the same way! Some nights I feel like a dairy cow ;-)
I have noticed that the days that he eats well and if he eats before going to bed he wakes up once, maybe twice, to nurce and then it's more for a quick snack. The days that he wont eat anything, I know that I'll be up all night, I try to take it a little easier that day and if I can, I catch a nap, that way I'm not dead on my feet the next day.
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<<My two year old doesn't.>>>
My, almost 2yr old, doesn't either.
<<<Jalen still wakes up three or four times a night to nurse.
I was frustrated a while back, because he was getting up nearly every hour!!!
Insane for a toddler I thought.
But now he's settled into a nice pattern and is eating a lot of solids (I
guess we didn't miss that "window of opportunity" lol)>>>
Avery is the same way! Some nights I feel like a dairy cow ;-)
I have noticed that the days that he eats well and if he eats before going to bed he wakes up once, maybe twice, to nurce and then it's more for a quick snack. The days that he wont eat anything, I know that I'll be up all night, I try to take it a little easier that day and if I can, I catch a nap, that way I'm not dead on my feet the next day.
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/28/03 10:42:03 AM, diamondair@... writes:
<< I don't think most 5 month olds will sleep through the night without some
amount of coercion. >>
I first saw "without some amount of cocain," which I did't think would help a
baby sleep.
Yikes!
I need to do something besides read for a while, maybe!
-=As for the 2 year old, I'd concentrate on finding ways to make the whole
situation safe. Obviously, she's not going to learn to not pummel her sister
for awhile, she's in that toddler developmental stage and time will
eventually change this. -=-
I remembered something I used to do in way of time out (sort of). When the
three were all "pre-school" (they're still pre-school, not counting Kirby
took driver's ed! <bwg>), if I didn't have time or patience or opportunity to
sort something out right that second I would tell one of them (Marty,
usually) "Come sit by me," or "Hold on to my shirt, Marty" or "Stand right by
me for now, Marty."
And with that kid in reach, other kids safely free to roam or escape, and me
being near enough to see and smell Marty (or the occasional other kid), I
calmed down sooner, he didn't feel punished, really, and we could talk softly.
Until I felt like he was calmed down (and I COULD "feel" whether he was calm
or not, because he was right there close) I wouldn't clear him for take-off.
But if he said "Can I go now?" I could say something like "Pretty soon, but I
LIKE having you here!" So the only way he could "get loose" was to be even
MORE sweet and nice.
Sandra
<< I don't think most 5 month olds will sleep through the night without some
amount of coercion. >>
I first saw "without some amount of cocain," which I did't think would help a
baby sleep.
Yikes!
I need to do something besides read for a while, maybe!
-=As for the 2 year old, I'd concentrate on finding ways to make the whole
situation safe. Obviously, she's not going to learn to not pummel her sister
for awhile, she's in that toddler developmental stage and time will
eventually change this. -=-
I remembered something I used to do in way of time out (sort of). When the
three were all "pre-school" (they're still pre-school, not counting Kirby
took driver's ed! <bwg>), if I didn't have time or patience or opportunity to
sort something out right that second I would tell one of them (Marty,
usually) "Come sit by me," or "Hold on to my shirt, Marty" or "Stand right by
me for now, Marty."
And with that kid in reach, other kids safely free to roam or escape, and me
being near enough to see and smell Marty (or the occasional other kid), I
calmed down sooner, he didn't feel punished, really, and we could talk softly.
Until I felt like he was calmed down (and I COULD "feel" whether he was calm
or not, because he was right there close) I wouldn't clear him for take-off.
But if he said "Can I go now?" I could say something like "Pretty soon, but I
LIKE having you here!" So the only way he could "get loose" was to be even
MORE sweet and nice.
Sandra
coyote's corner
heck, I don't sleep through the night - I'm 53.
Janis
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: ejcrewe@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] parenting/unschooling and little baby cries
Ok, issue number two is that my 5 month old won't sleep through the night.
I know,. I know, what 5 month old will? >>
My two year old doesn't.
And our four and a half year old doesn't. On the good nights he comes in
quietly with no crying, on the bad nights he screams and we get him. My
three and a half year old sleeps through just fine. I think each child is
different, it takes them longer to build that comfort level. Babies get
hungry, as do toddlers. Older ones have dreams or hear noises or just can't
sleep alone.
Soon enough they'll be on their own. I don't worry or complain most nights.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stephanie Elms
Just wanted to chime in on the babies sleeping all night...I noticed that my kids
sleep seemed to get consistent somewhere between 2.5 and 3 yo. I always wonder if
they told folks that (instead of the typical 10 weeks) how many people would
still choose to be parents!
I would have gone crazy if I had not had my youngest in bed with us. It is so easy
to just roll over! Plus I love how when he was little we would be in sync...I would
wake up just a minute or so before he did and was able to respond before he got
upset. SO much nicer that way then being jolted out a deep sleep by a crying baby!
Stephanie E.
sleep seemed to get consistent somewhere between 2.5 and 3 yo. I always wonder if
they told folks that (instead of the typical 10 weeks) how many people would
still choose to be parents!
I would have gone crazy if I had not had my youngest in bed with us. It is so easy
to just roll over! Plus I love how when he was little we would be in sync...I would
wake up just a minute or so before he did and was able to respond before he got
upset. SO much nicer that way then being jolted out a deep sleep by a crying baby!
Stephanie E.
Backstrom kelli
this is a wonderful suggestion! I love the thought of having her feel like I love having her around because after all, she was my baby for 2 1/2 years and this has been difficult for her. I will try this today! Thanks Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 4/28/03 10:42:03 AM, diamondair@... writes:
<< I don't think most 5 month olds will sleep through the night without some
amount of coercion. >>
I first saw "without some amount of cocain," which I did't think would help a
baby sleep.
Yikes!
I need to do something besides read for a while, maybe!
-=As for the 2 year old, I'd concentrate on finding ways to make the whole
situation safe. Obviously, she's not going to learn to not pummel her sister
for awhile, she's in that toddler developmental stage and time will
eventually change this. -=-
I remembered something I used to do in way of time out (sort of). When the
three were all "pre-school" (they're still pre-school, not counting Kirby
took driver's ed! <bwg>), if I didn't have time or patience or opportunity to
sort something out right that second I would tell one of them (Marty,
usually) "Come sit by me," or "Hold on to my shirt, Marty" or "Stand right by
me for now, Marty."
And with that kid in reach, other kids safely free to roam or escape, and me
being near enough to see and smell Marty (or the occasional other kid), I
calmed down sooner, he didn't feel punished, really, and we could talk softly.
Until I felt like he was calmed down (and I COULD "feel" whether he was calm
or not, because he was right there close) I wouldn't clear him for take-off.
But if he said "Can I go now?" I could say something like "Pretty soon, but I
LIKE having you here!" So the only way he could "get loose" was to be even
MORE sweet and nice.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 4/28/03 10:42:03 AM, diamondair@... writes:
<< I don't think most 5 month olds will sleep through the night without some
amount of coercion. >>
I first saw "without some amount of cocain," which I did't think would help a
baby sleep.
Yikes!
I need to do something besides read for a while, maybe!
-=As for the 2 year old, I'd concentrate on finding ways to make the whole
situation safe. Obviously, she's not going to learn to not pummel her sister
for awhile, she's in that toddler developmental stage and time will
eventually change this. -=-
I remembered something I used to do in way of time out (sort of). When the
three were all "pre-school" (they're still pre-school, not counting Kirby
took driver's ed! <bwg>), if I didn't have time or patience or opportunity to
sort something out right that second I would tell one of them (Marty,
usually) "Come sit by me," or "Hold on to my shirt, Marty" or "Stand right by
me for now, Marty."
And with that kid in reach, other kids safely free to roam or escape, and me
being near enough to see and smell Marty (or the occasional other kid), I
calmed down sooner, he didn't feel punished, really, and we could talk softly.
Until I felt like he was calmed down (and I COULD "feel" whether he was calm
or not, because he was right there close) I wouldn't clear him for take-off.
But if he said "Can I go now?" I could say something like "Pretty soon, but I
LIKE having you here!" So the only way he could "get loose" was to be even
MORE sweet and nice.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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