Heather Woodward

Thank you all for the wealth of info on the conference. I
I have currently been within an environment in our church which has , in my opinion become very Child Unfriendly. I am not surprised actually by the responses that I got about bringing children. I know some of the other homeschooling conferences allow older children, or nursing babies. We are in the very busy stage of development (the always moving stage!)

When I first began my homeschool journey I was given lots of magazines ( the teaching Home) with the lovely family on the front and all the girls are dressed alike, or they are sitting very nicely dressed at the kitchen table while Mom puts away the dishes, smiling. Made me crazy! My family was certainly NOT this way - nor did I want it to be. It has been very refreshing to see a group which is down to earth, and real.

In any case, I did a lot of reading about Waldorf, Charlotte Mason and eventually found "How children Learn" by John Holt at a library sale.

I have since grown a lot in my feeling about children and acceptable behavior. I have been since battling "rules" within our church ( which I grew up and have loved) and have often found there to be a separation of parents/children. Often children aren't welcome because they make too much noise, are rowdy(especially after LOTS of sugary snacks which are provided) and are just excited to be together. I find that wonderful about them.( Their excitement and zest - not their reaction to sugary snacks ;-) Others are not so amused and find them interfering.

I have been reading here for over a year. This year I have been unschooling - but sometimes I still stand on the fence - and get very nervous when I look at Math books I purchased that have gone unused. I can see my children learning, have had wonderful days with them - but still I doubt myself because I worry that my kids will grow up to be undisciplined adults that lack self-control, etc. From reading much of what you all speak about with your children, it appears just the opposite. I am really hoping to see this in person. Part of me wonders if it is just that you are just particularly good parents -) I sometimes wish I was parented the way I see some of you coming across as parents to your children.

Unschooling is scary for me! I think it puts MORE pressure on me than having a curriculum.( I never did have a packaged one - but did do unit studies and math) One afternoon, my kids found frog eggs out in the stream - and I bet you can imagine what that turned into - a whole afternoon of looking up whether they were frog eggs or toad eggs - what they eat, etc. it was wonderful. Sometimes after about 5 minutes they decide they don't want to do whatever it is we started. It certainly keeps me on my toes!

Well - sorry I have gone on so long. If all goes well, we may all take the ride - We are in CT. I have a couple of Free plane tickets I could use - and was thinking that would work for my husband and I , but don't know if I could scrape up the rest for 3 more plane tickets. However - it would be an adventure. We do travel to Maryland as I assist a Professor at University of Maryland a couple times a year - but that is only 7 hrs. and we drive through the night. I hate long car rides - but I may have to suffer through it ;-) One of those car video things is sounding pretty good ;-)

Hope to see you all there!

Heather
Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Unschooling Conference in SC- Question


In a message dated 4/27/2003 6:51:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
marji@... writes:
> I just want to point out
> that there is ample loving space at this conference for the most
> nonconformist, individualistic, can't-tell-'em-what-to-do kinds of kids.
>
> Marji (who wishes the world in general were more like the SOS Live and
> Learn Unschoolers' Conference)

And YOU can start writing the ads, Marji!

Thanks!

~Kelly


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kbolden

>>>>Heather wrote: but still I doubt myself because I worry that my kids will grow up to be undisciplined adults that lack self-control, etc. From reading much of what you all speak about with your children, it appears just the opposite.

Can I add my thanks as well? :-p This is the biggest criticism I get from my family ... that my son is/will be undisciplined. But I notice that their kids, who are controlled in every tiny move of their lives, including going to the bathroom (Asking a 6yo do you have to go? NO! Yes you do! No I don't. YES you do -- go right now or you're in time out!), become wild and unruly as soon as they are free of their parents. My son's behavior is pretty much the same, whether I'm supervising him or not -- energetic, certainly, but not wild. I see this as vindication! Proof that he is developing internal control.

Thanks to all you vets who keep sharing your stories.

Kay

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[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/03 6:44:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bacwoodz@... writes:

> but that is only 7 hrs. and we drive through the night. I hate long car
> rides - but I may have to suffer through it ;-) One of those car video
> things is sounding pretty good ;-)
>
>

Marji, weren't you and someone else forming a caravan of sorts to the SC
Unschooling Revival. Heather, you could join the caravan and make the travel
a little more tolerable.
Pam G.


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Heidi

>When I first began my homeschool journey I was given lots of
>magazines ( the teaching Home) with the lovely family on the front
>and all the girls are dressed alike, or they are sitting very nicely
>dressed at the kitchen table while Mom puts away the dishes,
>smiling. Made me crazy! My family was certainly NOT this way - nor
>did I want it to be. It has been very refreshing to see a group
>which is down to earth, and real.

Those magazines and the pictures on the flyers for homeschool
curriculum, with books spread out all over the table, and a glass of
milk and plate of cookies...LOL

But actually, this is something I thought of today. When we started,
I made up an extra room for "the classroom" with a very nifty
timeline on the wall, and a world map on the wall, and a desk for
each kid...and we "did school" in there about twice! We just
naturally gravitated to the kitchen table. Putting it off in a
separate room was SO foreign and unnatural, right from the beginning.

So, extrapolating that observation across the spectrum of learning,
why should I think that they are going to learn something just
because I put them down in front of it and tell it to them? John Holt
was an amazing author, whose "How Children Learn" blew all my
theories out of the water. That, and researching the private school
in MA(???) "Sudbury" where kids follow their own inclinations every
day, with caring adults there to model all kinds of things.

Sudbury, Holt, and Gatto, along with recollections of my own
learning, and observations of my kids, convince me that real learning
isn't something that can be forced. Yeah, they'll learn how to spit
out the right answers, and pass the tests, but they won't own the
knowledge, unless it's something they really dig. Making a kid who is
interested in chemistry, to read through Julius Caesar, when he
highly dislikes literature, just so he can display an official
diploma...nah. That's unnatural. Jumping through the hoops is for
trained animals, not human beings.

HeidiC

Heidi

--- In [email protected], "treegoddess@c..."
<treegoddess@c...> wrote:
> Heidi wrote:
>
> >Jumping through the hoops is for trained animals, not human beings.
> >
>
> Not even for them -- it's unnatural for them too and they don't
want to
> do it either! :)
>
> TreeGoddess

Oh man, how true! Shame on me, who much prefers seeing animals in
their natural habitat to circuses...

thanks for pointing that out, Goddess!

heidiC

marji

At 06:23 4/28/03 -0400, you wrote:
>Heidi wrote:
>
> >Jumping through the hoops is for trained animals, not human beings.
> >
>
>Not even for them -- it's unnatural for them too and they don't want to
>do it either! :)
>
>TreeGoddess

Yeah!! Imagine a world where people try only to control themSELVES, not
their kids, not their spouses, not their companion animals, and not the
natural, wild world around them. What would *that* look like, I
wonder. We only need to control ourselves.

Well, I can dream, right?

Marji


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Heidi

well, I think there's a place in the world for well-behaved pets. If
they're naturally mellow and obedient, not much needs be done. If
they are strong-willed, or inclined to be skittish/snappish/surly,
then some big time training needs to take place, so they don't hurt
someone. So, there would have to be us controlling animals, for their
benefit as much as anything else.

peace, Heidi who never could get her big black dog to stay out of the
road :( who wishes she'd got the chain on his neck that last night of
his life :(


--- In [email protected], marji <marji@g...> wrote:
> At 06:23 4/28/03 -0400, you wrote:
> >Heidi wrote:
> >
> > >Jumping through the hoops is for trained animals, not human
beings.
> > >
> >
> >Not even for them -- it's unnatural for them too and they don't
want to
> >do it either! :)
> >
> >TreeGoddess
>
> Yeah!! Imagine a world where people try only to control
themSELVES, not
> their kids, not their spouses, not their companion animals, and not
the
> natural, wild world around them. What would *that* look like, I
> wonder. We only need to control ourselves.
>
> Well, I can dream, right?
>
> Marji
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/28/2003 2:46:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
> well, I think there's a place in the world for well-behaved pets. If
> they're naturally mellow and obedient, not much needs be done. If
> they are strong-willed, or inclined to be skittish/snappish/surly,
> then some big time training needs to take place, so they don't hurt
> someone. So, there would have to be us controlling animals, for their
> benefit as much as anything else.

Putting more effort into picking out the RIGHT one for yourself &/or your
family would be the first step! It's hard, but not impossible to work against
nature/instinct. Why make it harder on yourself? Get the right breed for YOU.
That helps a lot!

~Kelly


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Heidi

Yeah, if I'd known how strong-willed and territorial an Akita could
be, I wouldn't have taken Wookie home from the vet. He was too much
for us, and our poor Critter doggy, who's just a roll-over-and-get-
the belly-scratched Mutt...he was completely subdued and brow beaten.

Heidi


--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/28/2003 2:46:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bunsofaluminum60@h... writes:
> > well, I think there's a place in the world for well-behaved pets.
If
> > they're naturally mellow and obedient, not much needs be done. If
> > they are strong-willed, or inclined to be
skittish/snappish/surly,
> > then some big time training needs to take place, so they don't
hurt
> > someone. So, there would have to be us controlling animals, for
their
> > benefit as much as anything else.
>
> Putting more effort into picking out the RIGHT one for yourself
&/or your
> family would be the first step! It's hard, but not impossible to
work against
> nature/instinct. Why make it harder on yourself? Get the right
breed for YOU.
> That helps a lot!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>


<< Yeah, if I'd known how strong-willed and territorial an Akita could be,
I wouldn't have taken Wookie home from the vet. He was too much
for us, and our poor Critter doggy, who's just a roll-over-and-get- the
belly-scratched Mutt...he was completely subdued and brow beaten.>>


Still have him??? I'll trade you one Bullmastiff and a little Beagle for the
Akita!!! Okay, only half kidding here. Sometimes more or less than half
kidding. But we use to have an Akita, and unfortunately built a family of
more children and pets after her. It didn't work. We're done having children
and pets for awhile. I would get another Akita now in a heartbeat if we
didn't have the other two dogs now.

Mary B

Heidi

--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
> From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@h...>
>
>
> << Yeah, if I'd known how strong-willed and territorial an Akita
could be,
> I wouldn't have taken Wookie home from the vet. He was too much
> for us, and our poor Critter doggy, who's just a roll-over-and-get-
the
> belly-scratched Mutt...he was completely subdued and brow beaten.>>
>
>
> Still have him??? I'll trade you one Bullmastiff and a little
Beagle for the
> Akita!!! Okay, only half kidding here. Sometimes more or less than
half
> kidding. But we use to have an Akita, and unfortunately built a
family of
> more children and pets after her. It didn't work. We're done having
children
> and pets for awhile. I would get another Akita now in a heartbeat
if we
> didn't have the other two dogs now.
>
> Mary B


No, Wookie was a nighttime wanderer, though he was fixed. We usually
managed to get him on a chain before dark, but one Saturday night, I
got involved in something and when I looked up, it was already dark
and Wookie was already roaming, and he was not on the front porch the
next morning. Dead, up the road a piece. :(

Most likely, if he were still with us, I'd have been more than
willing for you to have him, though. He was a really beautiful dog.
And only two when he got hit. He'd be four this year.

Why do you say "unfortunately"?

HeidiC

Mary

From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>

<< Most likely, if he were still with us, I'd have been more than willing
for you to have him, though. He was a really beautiful dog. And only two
when he got hit. He'd be four this year.

Why do you say "unfortunately"? >>


Wow, that did sound a bit harsh didn't it??? I meant unfortunate for the
dog. She just couldn't handle all the new kids and animals that came after
her. We knew that of course there could be a problem when we got her but we
had no idea we would be expanding like we did. It wasn't unfortunate for us
at all, just poor Miko.

Mary B

Heidi

I wondered if that weren't it. Wookie was most definitely the Boss
Dog, which put poor Critter five feet under, and I declare, he had a
stronger will than ME. L He really needed one strong person to be
with him all the time and put a lot of effort into his training. It's
sort of an "unfortunate" for Wookie, too.

Ah, well. Something to add to my "Everything I Ever Learned" List:
research the breed before getting a dog.

HeidiC


--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
> From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@h...>
>
> << Most likely, if he were still with us, I'd have been more than
willing
> for you to have him, though. He was a really beautiful dog. And
only two
> when he got hit. He'd be four this year.
>
> Why do you say "unfortunately"? >>
>
>
> Wow, that did sound a bit harsh didn't it??? I meant unfortunate
for the
> dog. She just couldn't handle all the new kids and animals that
came after
> her. We knew that of course there could be a problem when we got
her but we
> had no idea we would be expanding like we did. It wasn't
unfortunate for us
> at all, just poor Miko.
>
> Mary B

Heidi

I wondered if that weren't it. Wookie was most definitely the Boss
Dog, which put poor Critter five feet under, and I declare, he had a
stronger will than ME. L He really needed one strong person to be
with him all the time and put a lot of effort into his training. It's
sort of an "unfortunate" for Wookie, too.

Ah, well. Something to add to my "Everything I Ever Learned" List:
research the breed before getting a dog.

HeidiC


--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
> From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@h...>
>
> << Most likely, if he were still with us, I'd have been more than
willing
> for you to have him, though. He was a really beautiful dog. And
only two
> when he got hit. He'd be four this year.
>
> Why do you say "unfortunately"? >>
>
>
> Wow, that did sound a bit harsh didn't it??? I meant unfortunate
for the
> dog. She just couldn't handle all the new kids and animals that
came after
> her. We knew that of course there could be a problem when we got
her but we
> had no idea we would be expanding like we did. It wasn't
unfortunate for us
> at all, just poor Miko.
>
> Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/28/2003 5:11:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> I'll trade you one Bullmastiff

I'd take your Bullmastiff. :)

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: <tuckervill@...>

<<I'd take your Bullmastiff. :)

Tuck>>


LOL!!!! Okay it's a package deal. The bully comes with the Beagle and then
the Ozzy (the bully) comes with my husband as it's his dog and then Kelly
(the Beagle) comes with our daughter Sierra as that's her dog. Still want
them all??!!!

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2003 12:08:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:

>
> LOL!!!! Okay it's a package deal. The bully comes with the Beagle and then
> the Ozzy (the bully) comes with my husband as it's his dog and then Kelly
> (the Beagle) comes with our daughter Sierra as that's her dog. Still want
> them all??!!!
>

:::never mind::: :)

T.


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