relaxhsmomof3

help. I need advice> We unschool our three children, ten, seven and 22months. In the last few days we have been approached by my folks wanting to move in with us. They are getting up in years and recently my father lost his job. They are concerned for their future. I understand where they are coming from. Has anyone had to explain to their families how they unschool? They know we homeschool and have only said they hope I know what I'm doing! But they have never been around enough as of yet to view how we learn and play. Since we have only been doing this for less than a year I thought I'd cross that bridge later. Well it seems later is now. Any suggestions would be great. Also has anyone had to deschool their children? I've heard it can take up to a year? Any comments? Thanks, kimberly

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/26/2003 10:55:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kdl45@...
writes:

> Well it seems later is now. Any suggestions would be great. Also has anyone
> had to deschool their children? I've heard it can take up to a year? Any
> comments? Thanks, kimberly

When they arrive, you *could* just say that you're taking the "three month
summer break" NOW. That way they could see the learning that happens during
"break" (and be sure to casually point it out every day!). Then when the
three months are "up", you could begin to explain unschooling and how they DO
learn every day.

Deschooling can last longer than a year. I think it depends on the child: how
long he was in school, how demanding school (and YOU!) were, and how
sensitive he is. Cameron is extremely sensitive, was 8 years in a demanding
private school, and was pushed by us to "perform". He took over a
year---almost 18 months, I guess, to deschool. Sleeping, watching TV, staring
at the ceiling a lot, thinking deeply, and "veging out". He's still scarred,
but he's back to his old (passionate-about-learning five-year-old-like) self.

I think a "tough" child with fewer years in a "less demanding" school, with
parents that never really worried about his "progress" can probably deschool
quickly and easily.

The "rule of thumb" is one month per year in school---mileage varies.

Good luck with the grands!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hi,

I have a question.
Remember no question is a dumb question : /

Unschooling and Deschooling. When my son left school I deschooled right
away, now we Unschool. Someone please tell me if I have one of the
definitions wrong because to me they are the same?


Laura



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/2003 9:18:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
> Unschooling and Deschooling. When my son left school I deschooled right
> away, now we Unschool. Someone please tell me if I have one of the
> definitions wrong because to me they are the same?

What are your definitions?

Mine:
DEschooling is the "down time"---the veging out period to "detox" from the
effects of school. May be short or long depending on the amount of damage
that was done to the child in the school system (the adult, too---many adults
have a harder/longer time deschooling to get to unschooling!). Not much
learning is "visible" as the child is learning to love learning again.

UNschooling is when the freedom takes hold and the learning starts. It's when
the peace and wholeness and joy are visible again---when you can see that
spark in their eyes that all five year olds have! It's when they start asking
questions again and enjoying life again. It's beautiful!

I have one that had to deschool and one that will never see a school. Both
are amazing to watch. Duncan will always love to learn, but it was lovely to
watch the fire come back in to Cameron (I just wish it had never left)--but I
can say I WATCHED it happen! It's gradual, but obvious.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

Kelly

Cameron is extremely sensitive, was 8 years in a demanding
> private school, and was pushed by us to "perform". He took over a
> year---almost 18 months, I guess, to deschool. Sleeping, watching
TV, staring
> at the ceiling a lot, thinking deeply, and "veging out". He's still
scarred,
> but he's back to his old (passionate-about-learning five-year-old-
like) self.


Were you ever nervous about him not coming around to that "passionate
about life" place? 18 months...I'd be chomping at the bit.

also, do you (or anyone else on the board) feel that you, the
parents, having a passion for things, is needed in order for the kids
to prosper? I've just been feeling like a bit of a dullard lately,
and wonder if my kids would be happier if dh & I had a broader scope
of interests ourselves.

HeidiC

[email protected]

thank you for writing this.. My son is ten and was pulled out less than a
year ago. I sometimes forget it takes time to deschool and your note reminded
me not to push. It is really hard at times. Thanks for the reminder,Kimberly

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/2003 10:09:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

> Were you ever nervous about him not coming around to that "passionate
> about life" place? 18 months...I'd be chomping at the bit.

Yes. And I nagged. You CANNOT count the time as DEschooling UNTIL you quite
nagging. If you are going smoothly for 3-4 weeks and then nag that couldn't
he pick up a book or DO *some*thing?, you need to start counting
again---'cause you've "renigged" on that trust thing! Deschooling starts
AFTER the nagging stops. Be patient. Yes, I DID wang out right regularly, but
I was seeing tiny sparks of it working---and I was GLUED to unschooling.com's
message boards. That helped A LOT! I had to MAKE myself STOP many
times!---Deep breaths and busy myself somewhere else. Almost forget he was
there. I played "hard to get" <g>---in a good way. I waited until he came to
ME.

> also, do you (or anyone else on the board) feel that you, the
> parents, having a passion for things, is needed in order for the kids
> to prosper? I've just been feeling like a bit of a dullard lately,
> and wonder if my kids would be happier if dh & I had a broader scope
> of interests ourselves.

Well, seeing as I have about a dozen passions and am bit of a nut, there's
not a problem with their seeing me BUSY! I'm often doing three or four things
at a time! They NEED to see me veg out! <G> Which usually does happen after a
huge, long burst of activity---I may lie around for two or three days.

Yes, I think deschooling YOURself and find your own passions would definitely
be a BIG step! They learn a lot by example: so let them see you pursue a
passion or two---something you've never done before ---or that is hard or
intricate. Let them see you struggle a bit. And let them see you totally IN
LOVE with what you're doing!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

If you are unschooling, and have been, what need is there to deschool?

If your parents are going to move in with you, I think you need to create
*very* firm boundries about your parenting decisions. Unschooling is one of
them. If we are unashamed, we have nothing to hide. If they, being
whomever not your parents, don't like it, TOUGH! (I;ve learned that the
hard way.) If you bring them into your home, they MUST respect your
decisions. I wouldn't have it any other way!

Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/2003 11:36:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jmcseals@... writes:

> If you bring them into your home, they MUST respect your
> decisions. I wouldn't have it any other way!

YEAH! You're living under MY roof, and this is the way it's going to BE! <G>

See how they like THAT! <G>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

Oh Kelly, you are cracking me UP! I have had the MOST insane day today, so
I'm a little touchy about family freakishness right now. I guess I was
being a teeny bit rigid, huh? LOL!

Jennifer




> If you bring them into your home, they MUST respect your decisions. I
>wouldn't have it any other way!

YEAH! You're living under MY roof, and this is the way it's going to BE! <G>

See how they like THAT! <G>

~Kelly


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/2003 10:09:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

>
>
> also, do you (or anyone else on the board) feel that you, the
> parents, having a passion for things, is needed in order for the kids
> to prosper? I've just been feeling like a bit of a dullard lately,
> and wonder if my kids would be happier if dh &I had a broader scope
> of interests ourselves.

YES, thats my biggest personal issue.

Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/03 8:09:54 AM, bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

<< also, do you (or anyone else on the board) feel that you, the

parents, having a passion for things, is needed in order for the kids

to prosper? >>

I do.

<<I've just been feeling like a bit of a dullard lately,

and wonder if my kids would be happier if dh & I had a broader scope

of interests ourselves. >>

Fallow phases are common, but if you're feeling like a long-term dullard with
no plans to perk up, that could be problematical.

Whether your kids would be happier or not, if you and your husband don't have
a broad scope of interests, will the kids suffer from lack of modelling?
Genetics? When you don't do things, do you also say negative things like,
"Well that stuff is boring" or "...stupid" or "...for snobs"? (thinking back
to things MY mother said about things she didn't want to bestir herself to do
or take me to do).

I think my kids have a multi-faceted view of the world because they see me
and my husband and other adult friends of ours doing things just for fun,
doing hard things they don't have to do, getting excited about something
they've learned.

To say parents HAVE to have passionate interests is saying too much, but I've
seen families where the parents want to do nothing but clean house, go to
work, watch TV and sleep, but somehow they expect their children to involve
themselves in sports, music, art, research, volunteer work, and feats of
engineering wonder. If that doesn't happen, they stretch and yawn and say
unschooling isn't working.

I seriously doubt you're one of those, Heidi. Maybe you're just cocooning.
Seems sometimes when things get still in a person, and quiet, and then a calm
restlessness or sense of impending *something* comes, and then they blossom
out again, some new project, some new ideas, something notable starts to
happen.

There's a big range between being quiet and not super-busy and being
paralyzed and negative. Some people exude negativity about other people's
hobbies and interests too. THAT can be a black hole in a family, teaching
everybody that if they DO feel enthusiasm for something, not to express it.

Sandra

Fetteroll

on 4/27/03 12:02 PM, jmcseals SEALS at jmcseals@... wrote:

> Oh Kelly, you are cracking me UP! I have had the MOST insane day today, so
> I'm a little touchy about family freakishness right now. I guess I was
> being a teeny bit rigid, huh? LOL!

No, I think you were right on! Well, the wording could be a little more
friendly ;-) but establishing clear boundaries right at the beginning will
save huge headaches in the future.

Joyce

Betsy

**If your parents are going to move in with you, I think you need to
create
*very* firm boundries about your parenting decisions. Unschooling is
one of them. If we are unashamed, we have nothing to hide.**

I agree about the firm boundaries!

Can you have a point by point discussion with your parents about ways
you ARE willing to change your life and ways that you AREN'T? (Then the
glass isn't just "half empty".)

For instance, maybe you are willing (if they move in) to buy the foods
your parents like at the grocery store and cook around their dietary
restrictions, but you aren't willing to let them bug your kids about
what they chose to eat. Maybe you are willing to have everyone in the
house be quiet from 9pm onwards every night, but maybe you also want
everyone in the house to try to be quiet until 1pm the next day. Maybe
you aren't willing for them to comment about what time other people
choose to get up. (These are just hypothetical, I'm not suggesting that
these are the right rules for you.)

I know it would be extremely stressful for me to incorporate other
adults into my home, at least the ones that I'm related, to.

This is a major decision that requires a lot of thought, and maybe a
trial visit as a source of information and a reality check. (It's hard
to make a good decision based on unreality. How much time have your
parents spent in contact with children in their natural habitat? <g>)

If my parents wanted help and were willing to move, I would probably
want a solution that had them living about 5 minutes away from my house,
but not living with me.

Betsy

Heidi

Thank you Kelly

The more I think about it, the more I realize, my whole entire life
has been spent either at school or thinking "school" was the best way
to educate, so deschooling for REAL is the way to go. I'm much better
now than I have been, but somehow just burst out with a "NO! read
this book instead!" once in awhile! L

Just can't contain meself! L

But maybe accepting myself includes accepting how we do things as a
family, which will lead to lots of interests and passions based on
HOW WE DO THINGS and WHAT WE ALREADY ENJOY. Which, to be honest, the
bread baking has led to so many cool, interesting mornings. So maybe
we already have a bit of a handle on some of it.

thanks again. I'm getting there!

HeidiC


--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/27/2003 10:09:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bunsofaluminum60@h... writes:
>
> > Were you ever nervous about him not coming around to
that "passionate
> > about life" place? 18 months...I'd be chomping at the bit.
>
> Yes. And I nagged. You CANNOT count the time as DEschooling UNTIL
you quite
> nagging. If you are going smoothly for 3-4 weeks and then nag that
couldn't
> he pick up a book or DO *some*thing?, you need to start counting
> again---'cause you've "renigged" on that trust thing! Deschooling
starts
> AFTER the nagging stops. Be patient. Yes, I DID wang out right
regularly, but
> I was seeing tiny sparks of it working---and I was GLUED to
unschooling.com's
> message boards. That helped A LOT! I had to MAKE myself STOP many
> times!---Deep breaths and busy myself somewhere else. Almost forget
he was
> there. I played "hard to get" <g>---in a good way. I waited until
he came to
> ME.
>
> > also, do you (or anyone else on the board) feel that you, the
> > parents, having a passion for things, is needed in order for the
kids
> > to prosper? I've just been feeling like a bit of a dullard
lately,
> > and wonder if my kids would be happier if dh & I had a broader
scope
> > of interests ourselves.
>
> Well, seeing as I have about a dozen passions and am bit of a nut,
there's
> not a problem with their seeing me BUSY! I'm often doing three or
four things
> at a time! They NEED to see me veg out! <G> Which usually does
happen after a
> huge, long burst of activity---I may lie around for two or three
days.
>
> Yes, I think deschooling YOURself and find your own passions would
definitely
> be a BIG step! They learn a lot by example: so let them see you
pursue a
> passion or two---something you've never done before ---or that is
hard or
> intricate. Let them see you struggle a bit. And let them see you
totally IN
> LOVE with what you're doing!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

Hi Sandra. Thanks for the reply
>
> Fallow phases are common, but if you're feeling like a long-term
dullard with
> no plans to perk up, that could be problematical.

It's just been a really stressful winter for me, with many different
facets of my life, and homeschooling being a large part of it. The
awakening that came from ditching the strict scheduled curriculum,
and then reading Gatto and Holt!!! whew, but with that awakening, the
doubts. Along with some social stresses and a very tight money
situation...and being prone to melancholy and introspection, and
coming out of winter. But we do have "some plans to perk up" (I like
that phrase ;) like a garden and chickens and swimming when the pool
opens. Hiking, birding, outdoor cooking, and bagel baking.

When you don't do things, do you also say negative things like,
> "Well that stuff is boring" or "...stupid" or "...for snobs"?
(thinking back
> to things MY mother said about things she didn't want to bestir
herself to do
> or take me to do).

No, we never do that, though there might be some "I just don't have
it in me right now," a bit more than usual at this time. guess I'm
just coming to a place where I can be contented in my own style of
doing things for fun or interest or even for responsibility or duty
and not necessarily because of a passion for them.

Our 15 year old has lots of interests and we cart her here and there
for many different things. As for our own interests, money is a big
factor, but it's more my hubby than me. "How can we do (fill in the
blank)? No money!" With a little bit of imagination and some work,
there's fun things to do for free. My desire has been for us to find
a family vision, or at least for us parents, or even for just ME, to
find a passion.

If that doesn't happen, they stretch and yawn and say
> unschooling isn't working.
> I seriously doubt you're one of those, Heidi.

yeah, I don't see us as doing that, either.

Maybe you're just cocooning.
> Seems sometimes when things get still in a person, and quiet, and
then a calm
> restlessness or sense of impending *something* comes, and then they
blossom
> out again, some new project, some new ideas, something notable
starts to
> happen.
>
> There's a big range between being quiet and not super-busy and
being
> paralyzed and negative. Some people exude negativity about other
people's
> hobbies and interests too. THAT can be a black hole in a family,
teaching
> everybody that if they DO feel enthusiasm for something, not to
express it.
>
> Sandra

thanks for the terrific input, sandra

***HeidiC

joanna514

<<You CANNOT count the time as DEschooling UNTIL you quit
> nagging. If you are going smoothly for 3-4 weeks and then nag that
couldn't
> he pick up a book or DO *some*thing?, you need to start counting
> again---'cause you've "renigged" on that trust thing! Deschooling
starts
> AFTER the nagging stops.>>>>


I remember reading something similiar to this and it was an "ah ha!"
moment for me. I think it was put in terms of, damaging our
relationship every time I lost faith, and all the progress up until
that time (of weakness/fear/stupidity).
I vowed after that "ah ha" post to NEVER do it again. (nag or show
my fear, that is).
You put it very well and I hope a few "ah ha's" came from it.
Joanna

Tammy

||||||||<<You CANNOT count the time as DEschooling UNTIL you quit
> nagging. If you are going smoothly for 3-4 weeks and then nag that couldn
t > he pick up a book or DO *some*thing?, you need to start counting >
again---'cause you've "renigged" on that trust thing! Deschooling
starts > AFTER the nagging stops.>>>>


I remember reading something similiar to this and it was an "ah ha!"
moment for me. I think it was put in terms of, damaging our
relationship every time I lost faith, and all the progress up until
that time (of weakness/fear/stupidity).
I vowed after that "ah ha" post to NEVER do it again. (nag or show
my fear, that is).
You put it very well and I hope a few "ah ha's" came from it.
Joanna||||||||||||||||||
-----------------
definately an "ah ha" over here..
Tammy





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rebecca DeLong

kbcdlovejo@... wrote:

<<<Yes, I think deschooling YOURself and find your own passions would definitely
be a BIG step! They learn a lot by example: so let them see you pursue a
passion or two---something you've never done before ---or that is hard or
intricate. Let them see you struggle a bit. And let them see you totally IN
LOVE with what you're doing!>>>


I find that I'm having a hard time with this, finding my own passion isn't the hard part, but giving myself permission to follow them. I often hear my parents and teachers voices in my head telling me that my interests are pointless and will never amount to anything so why bother.

It's hard to get past all that. I tend to get very interested in something, then start wondering if it will 'lead anyware productive' and get depressed and never follow through.

I'm glad that I'm getting a chance to come to terms with all of this and I hope to find a way through it, so that Jaiden and Avery don't see me never finishing anything.

Rebecca





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

**I find that I'm having a hard time with this, finding my own passion
isn't the hard part, but giving myself permission to follow them. I
often hear my parents and teachers voices in my head telling me that my
interests are pointless and will never amount to anything so why bother.
**

Hi, Rebecca --


This is a tough problem. I hope you can throw off their attitudes and
start to spend your time is ways that are pleasing to you, whether or
not they improve the world or generate income or look good to others.

I lean in the direction of being a couch potato, and am pretty good at
making those Puritan work ethic voices, the ones that say every moment
should be productive, go away.

Betsy

Heidi

Hi Rebecca
> It's hard to get past all that. I tend to get very interested in
something, then start wondering if it will 'lead anyware productive'
and get depressed and never follow through.

This is me to a T, especially since money is very tight right now. I
find myself wishing the things I'm into were "productive" as in, of
monetary value, and then throw up my hands and say phooey on it.

But this deschooling thing, somewhere I read, a month for every year
I was in school, plus a month for every year that I have considered
school the only way to learn or "did school at home" with the kids
(which would be 12 + 8=20 months, or two years, for me! ack) but it
makes sense, especially after reading Gatto, who points out over and
over again, and very aptly, the damage that institutionalization does
to human beings. Get away from the institutional mindset.

well, anyway, I'm thinking aloud again.

HeidiC

>
> Rebecca
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tammy

<<<<<<<<<<<It's hard to get past all that. I tend to get very interested in
something, then start wondering if it will 'lead anyware productive' and get
depressed and never follow through. >>>>>

I can relate. I asked myself: what is 'productive' anyway? For whom is it
productive? them? me? If I am enjoying it, then it IS productive. It's
making me happy and fulfilled. When and if I stop enjoying it, is ok too.
But it belongs to me and only me, because no one can feel my feelings. That
helped me..now I tend to have too many projects going at once..lol. :-)
Tammy







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/28/03 10:31:19 AM, elfmama@... writes:

<< I'm glad that I'm getting a chance to come to terms with all of this and I
hope to find a way through it, so that Jaiden and Avery don't see me never
finishing anything. >>

Maybe you've already seen this, but maybe this will help:

http://sandradodd.com/empowerment



CERTIFICATE OF EMPOWERMENT

As bearer of this certificate you are no longer required to depend on the
advice of experts. You may step back and view the entire world-not just your
home, neighborhood or town, but the whole Earth-as a learning experience, a
laboratory containing languages (and native speakers thereof), plants,
animals, history, geology, weather (real live weather, in the sky, not in a
book), music, art , mathematics, physics, engineering, foods, human dynamics,
and ideas without end. Although collections of these treasures have been
located in museums for your convenience, they are to be found everywhere
else, too.
This authorizes you to experiment; to trust and enjoy your kids; to rejoice
when your children surpass you in skill, knowledge or wisdom; to make
mistakes, and to say "I don't know." Furthermore, you may allow your children
to experience boredom without taking full responsibility for finding them
something to do.
Henceforth you shall neither be required nor expected to finish everything
you start. Projects, books, experiments and plans may be discontinued as soon
as something more interesting comes along (or for any other reason) without
penalty, and picked up again at any time in the future (or never).
You may reclaim control of your family's daily life, and take what steps you
feel necessary to protect your children from physical, emotional or social
harm.
You have leave to think your own thoughts, and to encourage your children to
think theirs.
Each person who reads and understands this is authorized to extend these
privileges to others, by reproducing and distributing this certificate or by
creating another of his/her own design. Those who don't feel the need to
obtain approval to experiment, to think, or to do things they've never seen
others do are exempt, as they didn't need permission in the first place.


Sandra Dodd


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephanie Elms

> <<<<<<<<<<<It's hard to get past all that. I tend to get very
> interested in
> something, then start wondering if it will 'lead anyware
> productive' and get
> depressed and never follow through. >>>>>

I remember talking with my mom one time. She said that she was relating how I had
been playing with the boys in the sandbox and she had been thinking that I should
be out there weeding or something...with them but doing something "productive".
She had an aha moment when my aunt happened to say how wonderful it was that I
enjoyed playing with the boys and what a wonderful way to spend an afternoon.
My mom had never really looked at it that way but rather had just seen all the
stuff I was *not* doing...

Stephanie E.