Definition of unschooling, was; FLORIDA Intro
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/03 3:55:10 PM, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< It was, for us, an extension of the warm and fun things we had been doing
before Kirby was schoolage. But I never say "Yeah, I've been unschooling
since he was born." I know some people do. >>
But I thought unschooling was a way of life, a way of parenting, *as-well-as*
not forcing curriculum. So in that sense, wouldn't it make sense for someone
to say they've been unschooling since he was born (as in no TV/food/video
games/etc. restrictions) to make it understood how they've been parenting all
along? Lara.........
<< It was, for us, an extension of the warm and fun things we had been doing
before Kirby was schoolage. But I never say "Yeah, I've been unschooling
since he was born." I know some people do. >>
But I thought unschooling was a way of life, a way of parenting, *as-well-as*
not forcing curriculum. So in that sense, wouldn't it make sense for someone
to say they've been unschooling since he was born (as in no TV/food/video
games/etc. restrictions) to make it understood how they've been parenting all
along? Lara.........
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/03 12:26:20 PM, Laramike12@... writes:
<< So in that sense, wouldn't it make sense for someone
to say they've been unschooling since he was born (as in no TV/food/video
games/etc. restrictions) >>
I don't think so.
The TV & food stuff is not unschooling. If so, someone could have a kid in
school, but not restrict food and games, and say they were unschooling all
except for one thing.
For me, unschooling is how the family is dealing with laws about compulsory
education.
From the INSIDE of unschooling there are lots of things to know and consider,
but from the outside, what it is from the outside, is not having kids in
school and also not using a curriculum nor school-style teaching.
If someone does all the kinds of things we're talking about with a two year
old, well! THEY SHOULD! And if someone does all these things until a child
is five and then sends him to school, I don't even NEARLY see it as "we
unschooled until he was five." They just provided him a wonderful
pre-school experience.
Others feel differently, but without the necessary move and courage of saying
no when compulsory school-age comes, I don't consider any treatment of an
under-five-year-old to be unschooling (personally, myself) no matter what
their neighbors or sisters were doing with THEIR two and four year olds.
If someone has an eight year old who has never been to school and says "We've
homeschooled for three years," I'll count that as three years. If someone
has a three year old and says "we've homeschooled for three years" I'll
discount it entirely. We still don't know if two years hence that kid will
be in school.
Sandra
<< So in that sense, wouldn't it make sense for someone
to say they've been unschooling since he was born (as in no TV/food/video
games/etc. restrictions) >>
I don't think so.
The TV & food stuff is not unschooling. If so, someone could have a kid in
school, but not restrict food and games, and say they were unschooling all
except for one thing.
For me, unschooling is how the family is dealing with laws about compulsory
education.
From the INSIDE of unschooling there are lots of things to know and consider,
but from the outside, what it is from the outside, is not having kids in
school and also not using a curriculum nor school-style teaching.
If someone does all the kinds of things we're talking about with a two year
old, well! THEY SHOULD! And if someone does all these things until a child
is five and then sends him to school, I don't even NEARLY see it as "we
unschooled until he was five." They just provided him a wonderful
pre-school experience.
Others feel differently, but without the necessary move and courage of saying
no when compulsory school-age comes, I don't consider any treatment of an
under-five-year-old to be unschooling (personally, myself) no matter what
their neighbors or sisters were doing with THEIR two and four year olds.
If someone has an eight year old who has never been to school and says "We've
homeschooled for three years," I'll count that as three years. If someone
has a three year old and says "we've homeschooled for three years" I'll
discount it entirely. We still don't know if two years hence that kid will
be in school.
Sandra
laralarahun
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
<< For me, unschooling is how the family is dealing with laws about
compulsory education. >>
Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. Lara......
Tia Leschke
>year
> If someone does all the kinds of things we're talking about with a two
> old, well! THEY SHOULD! And if someone does all these things until achild
> is five and then sends him to school, I don't even NEARLY see it as "weI think there's a *huge* difference between someone saying, "We unschooled
> unschooled until he was five." They just provided him a wonderful
> pre-school experience.
him until he was five," and someone saying, "We've unschooled our ten year
old since he was born." In the first case, there's a huge change at school
age. In the other case there isn't. It seems to me that the *principles*
of unschooling work no matter what the age.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/03 3:05:42 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< It seems to me that the *principles*
of unschooling work no matter what the age. >>
The principles of raising toddlers in a peaceful, loving, nurturing
environment (and their learning like crazy) work at any age. That's why
unschooling works.
When attachment parenting and the facilitation of natural learning don't end
when schoolage comes, that is called unschooling.
If there were no such thing as compulsory education laws, I guess it could
just be called "continuing attachment parenting" (which is pretty much what
it is!)
When someone with a one year old says "unschooling" the question is "as
opposed to what?"
Sandra
<< It seems to me that the *principles*
of unschooling work no matter what the age. >>
The principles of raising toddlers in a peaceful, loving, nurturing
environment (and their learning like crazy) work at any age. That's why
unschooling works.
When attachment parenting and the facilitation of natural learning don't end
when schoolage comes, that is called unschooling.
If there were no such thing as compulsory education laws, I guess it could
just be called "continuing attachment parenting" (which is pretty much what
it is!)
When someone with a one year old says "unschooling" the question is "as
opposed to what?"
Sandra
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
>When someone with a one year old says "unschooling" the question is "asI'd have to say, as opposed enrolling the kid in my next door neighbor's
>opposed to what?"
licensed-for-12-we-do-activities-at-10am and
3pm-and-structure-everything-else-too day care. She's practically got a
preschool running over there, complete with 'everyone sit down and glue the
pom-poms on the xerox'd picture of a rabbit for easter' and "everyone sing
the alphabet song!"
Kids start their 'schooling' around here WAY before they hit
kindergarten. Back in the days when I was doing day care (10 years ago
now), parents had me driving their kids to 'enrichment' courses so they
wouldn't be behind when they got to kindergarten. It was a serious concern
of theirs, no matter what I thought of it. (I ran a very non-academic,
muddy, messy, yummy child care. How are they going to learn their ABC's
from that?)
In my opinion, unschooling can start from year one, if they've made the
conscious decision to not push their child in a schoolish way during their
'preschool career' or to prep for kindergarten.
The whole parenting/education competition gets pretty crazy in this neck of
the woods sometimes.
HeidiWD
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake. Jeannette Rankin
Tia Leschke
> When attachment parenting and the facilitation of natural learning don'tend
> when schoolage comes, that is called unschooling.what
>
> If there were no such thing as compulsory education laws, I guess it could
> just be called "continuing attachment parenting" (which is pretty much
> it is!)Well that's just because a word that has "school" in it ended up getting
>
> When someone with a one year old says "unschooling" the question is "as
> opposed to what?"
used. So it's being defined by what it's not. I'd rather see it defined by
what it is, but the word unschooling has stuck. If it's a philosophy of
helping kids learn about their world in their way, then it's just a
continuation of what was happening before the kids hit some age that's not
even the same in every state and province.
I do understand the frustration with people who "unschool" until school age,
but I also understand that people who get what unschooling is don't really
change anything at that magic school age. For instance, I can't see any
difference between what my daughter does with her 8 year old compared to the
2 year old and the baby, except that the 8 year old already understands a
lot more about her world than the younger ones. But she learned it all the
same way the younger ones are learning about it.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Sorcha
>"as
> When someone with a one year old says "unschooling" the question is
> opposed to what?"As opposed to this:
http://fepecho.com/infant/infant.htm and this:
http://www.kiddiekornercdc.org/incur.html (This one even teaches sitting
up, crawling, and walking!)
As opposed to the moms who stay home and have a timer so the baby gets
15 minutes of "tummy time" followed by reading a book, then a sensory
activity, a fine motor skill, a gross motor skill, a bottle, a nap ...
as opposed to the people who call talking to children "Language
Development" and have a schedule for bottles, naps, bath and bedtime.
Sorcha
I also came across a website a few days ago that I can't seem to find
now because I don't remember exactly what my search words were. But the
"homeschooling mom" had one child, he was ten months old, and she'd been
"homeschooling" since before he was born. She was a former teacher and
she had an eight hour a day curriculum that she began by reading out
loud while she was pregnant. As soon as his eyes could focus, it was
four hours a day of flash cards, plus her reading books and reciting the
times tables and states and capitals. She had her whole house covered
with educational posters at just the height that when he starts to walk,
that's all he'll see on every wall.
I saw a couple on Oprah a few years ago who had a whole house full of
educational stuff for their infant. I'm talking globes and
encyclopedias. If it wasn't educational, she wasn't allowed to play
with it. She couldn't even talk yet and they were "quizzing" her on
types of birds. They had flash cards and told her to point to the one
that was a cardinal. The sad thing is, the people doing these bizarre
things honestly think they're doing the best thing for their children.
The parents will probably burn out and send the kids to boarding school.
Sorcha
now because I don't remember exactly what my search words were. But the
"homeschooling mom" had one child, he was ten months old, and she'd been
"homeschooling" since before he was born. She was a former teacher and
she had an eight hour a day curriculum that she began by reading out
loud while she was pregnant. As soon as his eyes could focus, it was
four hours a day of flash cards, plus her reading books and reciting the
times tables and states and capitals. She had her whole house covered
with educational posters at just the height that when he starts to walk,
that's all he'll see on every wall.
I saw a couple on Oprah a few years ago who had a whole house full of
educational stuff for their infant. I'm talking globes and
encyclopedias. If it wasn't educational, she wasn't allowed to play
with it. She couldn't even talk yet and they were "quizzing" her on
types of birds. They had flash cards and told her to point to the one
that was a cardinal. The sad thing is, the people doing these bizarre
things honestly think they're doing the best thing for their children.
The parents will probably burn out and send the kids to boarding school.
Sorcha
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/19/03 7:56:42 PM, sorcha-aisling@... writes:
<< If it wasn't educational, she wasn't allowed to play with it. >>
Hey, I'm like that with MY kids! Only I consider rocks and dirt and water
and The Rolling Stones and The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and Muddy Waters
educational!
<<They had flash cards and told her to point to the one
that was a cardinal. The sad thing is, the people doing these bizarre
things honestly think they're doing the best thing for their children.
The parents will probably burn out and send the kids to boarding school.
it do a child in New Mexico to identify a cardinal, unless just for fun?
Strange, strange people.
Sandra
<< If it wasn't educational, she wasn't allowed to play with it. >>
Hey, I'm like that with MY kids! Only I consider rocks and dirt and water
and The Rolling Stones and The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and Muddy Waters
educational!
<<They had flash cards and told her to point to the one
that was a cardinal. The sad thing is, the people doing these bizarre
things honestly think they're doing the best thing for their children.
The parents will probably burn out and send the kids to boarding school.
>>Weird. What good does it do for a baby to identify birds? What good would
it do a child in New Mexico to identify a cardinal, unless just for fun?
Strange, strange people.
Sandra
coyote's corner
Good Morning,
I find that in some areas of Providence, this mentality applies.. When I was first awarded placement of Brianna, I searched for day care. (I was finishing a degree program and working.) The competition for some of the 'pre-school enrichment & learning centers' was fierce!!
The state was helping me pay for this, so I thought that with the state money and what I could afford, Brianna would be in a great day care program.
My college courses were 4 days per week. 9AM-11:45AM. I found a day care that was seemingly okay. They concentrated on organized activities. They promised "learning adventures" This day care was one of the most desired in the area!
I would drop her off at around 8:20 AM and usually I was there by noon. I must say that the day care required payment for a full day (7AM-5:30PM).
One day, due to a major traffic problem, I arrived there at approx 12:45 PM. I had called the office and explained the traffic situation. The office person put me on hold. The director came on and asked me when I would be there. I honestly couldn't give an answer. I was in traffic, it was beyond my control. She informed me that our agreement was that I pick Brianna up around noon. I pointed out that the center was getting paid for full time day care and had been, in fact, providing part time day care, I also said that this was very unusual for me to be late and that I really didn't see the problem.
When I arrived, Brianna was sitting out by the double locked doors - by herself- with her little school bag and jacket. She was frightened. Just a few feet away - in her classroom, the kids were playing.
When the secretary came to open the door for me, I was pissed! I wanted to speak to the administrator, but was told she was busy. I could see the office, the woman was eating a salad & reading Cosmo.
I picked Brianna up and walked into the administrators office. I fired them.
Not only did I pull Brianna out, I put a stop payment on the check and had this daycare stricken from the state rolls so the state wouldn't pay for them anymore.
Looking back, this action of theirs was part & parcel of training the kids. The administrator told me that Brianna needed to be disciplined, trained - that she was spoiled. (At this time, Brianna had seen goddess knows what while in custody of her bio-mom who was an iv drug user.) Brianna was & remains a rather quiet kid. Back then, she was very quiet. kids used to take her snacks, her toys and she would say & do nothing. I couldn't understand what this cosmos reading woman was talking about!!
For the rest of the semester, Brianna went into another day care that was so much better, however, it was serendipitous that I got her in there!! It was also over $100.00 per week more!! (thank goddess for the state help!)
For a long time after the experience w/ the first day care, Brianna was very wary of doing ANYTHING!!! w/o asking! She would get visibly upset over "being wrong" in writing, etc.
all in all - it was terrible for Brianna.
Janis
I find that in some areas of Providence, this mentality applies.. When I was first awarded placement of Brianna, I searched for day care. (I was finishing a degree program and working.) The competition for some of the 'pre-school enrichment & learning centers' was fierce!!
The state was helping me pay for this, so I thought that with the state money and what I could afford, Brianna would be in a great day care program.
My college courses were 4 days per week. 9AM-11:45AM. I found a day care that was seemingly okay. They concentrated on organized activities. They promised "learning adventures" This day care was one of the most desired in the area!
I would drop her off at around 8:20 AM and usually I was there by noon. I must say that the day care required payment for a full day (7AM-5:30PM).
One day, due to a major traffic problem, I arrived there at approx 12:45 PM. I had called the office and explained the traffic situation. The office person put me on hold. The director came on and asked me when I would be there. I honestly couldn't give an answer. I was in traffic, it was beyond my control. She informed me that our agreement was that I pick Brianna up around noon. I pointed out that the center was getting paid for full time day care and had been, in fact, providing part time day care, I also said that this was very unusual for me to be late and that I really didn't see the problem.
When I arrived, Brianna was sitting out by the double locked doors - by herself- with her little school bag and jacket. She was frightened. Just a few feet away - in her classroom, the kids were playing.
When the secretary came to open the door for me, I was pissed! I wanted to speak to the administrator, but was told she was busy. I could see the office, the woman was eating a salad & reading Cosmo.
I picked Brianna up and walked into the administrators office. I fired them.
Not only did I pull Brianna out, I put a stop payment on the check and had this daycare stricken from the state rolls so the state wouldn't pay for them anymore.
Looking back, this action of theirs was part & parcel of training the kids. The administrator told me that Brianna needed to be disciplined, trained - that she was spoiled. (At this time, Brianna had seen goddess knows what while in custody of her bio-mom who was an iv drug user.) Brianna was & remains a rather quiet kid. Back then, she was very quiet. kids used to take her snacks, her toys and she would say & do nothing. I couldn't understand what this cosmos reading woman was talking about!!
For the rest of the semester, Brianna went into another day care that was so much better, however, it was serendipitous that I got her in there!! It was also over $100.00 per week more!! (thank goddess for the state help!)
For a long time after the experience w/ the first day care, Brianna was very wary of doing ANYTHING!!! w/o asking! She would get visibly upset over "being wrong" in writing, etc.
all in all - it was terrible for Brianna.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Definition of unschooling, was; FLORIDA Intro
>When someone with a one year old says "unschooling" the question is "as
>opposed to what?"
I'd have to say, as opposed enrolling the kid in my next door neighbor's
licensed-for-12-we-do-activities-at-10am and
3pm-and-structure-everything-else-too day care. She's practically got a
preschool running over there, complete with 'everyone sit down and glue the
pom-poms on the xerox'd picture of a rabbit for easter' and "everyone sing
the alphabet song!"
Kids start their 'schooling' around here WAY before they hit
kindergarten. Back in the days when I was doing day care (10 years ago
now), parents had me driving their kids to 'enrichment' courses so they
wouldn't be behind when they got to kindergarten. It was a serious concern
of theirs, no matter what I thought of it. (I ran a very non-academic,
muddy, messy, yummy child care. How are they going to learn their ABC's
from that?)
In my opinion, unschooling can start from year one, if they've made the
conscious decision to not push their child in a schoolish way during their
'preschool career' or to prep for kindergarten.
The whole parenting/education competition gets pretty crazy in this neck of
the woods sometimes.
HeidiWD
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake." -Jeannette Rankin
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