Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Christian Atheletic Association
[email protected]
Sandra Said:
about what parents 'want" for their kids, its about what kids want for
themselves. Mary has said over and over that her kids love the camp. They
WANT to be there, they enjoy it. Its wholesome and fun and accepting. Even
if Mary were a strict Atheist, but her children wanted to go to the Christian
Camp, wouldnt it be their choice?
I won't direct this to anyone specifically.. But, if anyone here who does not
like "Christian environments" child had the opportunity to go to a sports
camp ( or heck, ANY kind of group doing something they likes) and it was
"Christian", would you let them go?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I wouldn't want my kids thereI'm sorry, but I must have missed something.. .I thought unschooling was not
about what parents 'want" for their kids, its about what kids want for
themselves. Mary has said over and over that her kids love the camp. They
WANT to be there, they enjoy it. Its wholesome and fun and accepting. Even
if Mary were a strict Atheist, but her children wanted to go to the Christian
Camp, wouldnt it be their choice?
I won't direct this to anyone specifically.. But, if anyone here who does not
like "Christian environments" child had the opportunity to go to a sports
camp ( or heck, ANY kind of group doing something they likes) and it was
"Christian", would you let them go?
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 10:58 AM, grlynbl@... wrote:
in a vacuum.
What parents think about a situation matters, of course. If my kids
wanted sports enough to put up with the praying and giving up goals for
Jesus - I would help them make it work as best i could. That doesn't
mean I'd WANT my kids in that situation.
up, at first, as an example of a Christian group that was very open to
and comfortable for nonChristians - and was questioned about what that
meant. As we've discovered, it means they are fine with nonChristians
as long as the nonChristians are okay with being part of prayer circles
and giving up goals for Jesus. Sandra and I both said that wouldn't
feel welcoming to us and we wouldn't want our kids involved. It IS,
however, more inclusive than requiring a statement of faith and less
inclusive than, say, an Interfaith sports league which is less
inclusive than a sports league that is just SPORTS and doesn't involve
religion at all. This was all a perfectly civil discussion and I think
Mary answered the questions really nicely and we all learned something.
Some people may not have thought about that in some areas kids who
homeschool, but are not Christians, get left out of things or don't
feel welcome - sometimes things that it doesn't seem there is any
reason to have religion involved, like sports or homeschool ice skating
or homeschool 4H clubs. It is good if more people are a little more
aware of that.
don't find it very welcoming, though, to show up for, say, a dance
lesson and then be treated to an hour of nonstop Christian-only music.
We go to things at people's churches frequently. Sometimes we go to
Christmas Eve or Easter services at other people's churches. We are
guests there and we enjoy it very much. That is different than being a
"member" of an organization that is Christian, though. It is also
different than being exposed on a regular basis to child evangelism. If
my kids NOW wanted to go, of course - they are 12, 15, and 18 - I'd be
curious about what they thought and we'd talk about it, I'm sure,
because they would want to. But "let them?" of course. I took mine out
of something that became very obviously intended as a vehicle to
pressure them to become Christian, when the older two were 2 and 5
years old. It had begun to seem very sneaky to me and it wasn't like
they couldn't have dance lessons somewhere else.
We were at a family get-together once - my sister's in-law family - and
they all stood in a big circle - maybe 50 of us - and went around the
circle praying to Jesus, one after the other. It came to one of my
little kids - maybe 8 years old - who promptly recited a little Baha'i
verse; "Oh God, Guide me. Protect me. Illumine the lamp of my heart and
make me a brilliant star." That was it - a sweet little few lines. They
were scandalized - horrified.
-pam
>Unschooling isn't about leaving kids on their own to make all decisions
> Sandra Said:
>> I wouldn't want my kids there
>
> I'm sorry, but I must have missed something.. .I thought unschooling
> was not
> about what parents 'want" for their kids, its about what kids want for
> themselves.
in a vacuum.
What parents think about a situation matters, of course. If my kids
wanted sports enough to put up with the praying and giving up goals for
Jesus - I would help them make it work as best i could. That doesn't
mean I'd WANT my kids in that situation.
> Mary has said over and over that her kids love the camp. TheyPeople were VERY careful not to criticize Mary's choice. Mary held it
> WANT to be there, they enjoy it. Its wholesome and fun and accepting.
> Even
> if Mary were a strict Atheist, but her children wanted to go to the
> Christian
> Camp, wouldnt it be their choice?
>
up, at first, as an example of a Christian group that was very open to
and comfortable for nonChristians - and was questioned about what that
meant. As we've discovered, it means they are fine with nonChristians
as long as the nonChristians are okay with being part of prayer circles
and giving up goals for Jesus. Sandra and I both said that wouldn't
feel welcoming to us and we wouldn't want our kids involved. It IS,
however, more inclusive than requiring a statement of faith and less
inclusive than, say, an Interfaith sports league which is less
inclusive than a sports league that is just SPORTS and doesn't involve
religion at all. This was all a perfectly civil discussion and I think
Mary answered the questions really nicely and we all learned something.
Some people may not have thought about that in some areas kids who
homeschool, but are not Christians, get left out of things or don't
feel welcome - sometimes things that it doesn't seem there is any
reason to have religion involved, like sports or homeschool ice skating
or homeschool 4H clubs. It is good if more people are a little more
aware of that.
> I won't direct this to anyone specifically.. But, if anyone here whoI don't have any objection to Christian environments, in general. I
> does not
> like "Christian environments" child had the opportunity to go to a
> sports
> camp ( or heck, ANY kind of group doing something they likes) and it
> was
> "Christian", would you let them go?
>
don't find it very welcoming, though, to show up for, say, a dance
lesson and then be treated to an hour of nonstop Christian-only music.
We go to things at people's churches frequently. Sometimes we go to
Christmas Eve or Easter services at other people's churches. We are
guests there and we enjoy it very much. That is different than being a
"member" of an organization that is Christian, though. It is also
different than being exposed on a regular basis to child evangelism. If
my kids NOW wanted to go, of course - they are 12, 15, and 18 - I'd be
curious about what they thought and we'd talk about it, I'm sure,
because they would want to. But "let them?" of course. I took mine out
of something that became very obviously intended as a vehicle to
pressure them to become Christian, when the older two were 2 and 5
years old. It had begun to seem very sneaky to me and it wasn't like
they couldn't have dance lessons somewhere else.
We were at a family get-together once - my sister's in-law family - and
they all stood in a big circle - maybe 50 of us - and went around the
circle praying to Jesus, one after the other. It came to one of my
little kids - maybe 8 years old - who promptly recited a little Baha'i
verse; "Oh God, Guide me. Protect me. Illumine the lamp of my heart and
make me a brilliant star." That was it - a sweet little few lines. They
were scandalized - horrified.
-pam
> Teresa
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/13/03 2:33:12 PM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< I'm sorry, but I must have missed something.. .I thought unschooling was
not
about what parents 'want" for their kids, its about what kids want for
themselves. >>
I'm sorry, but try not to be snarky.
<< Even
if Mary were a strict Atheist, but her children wanted to go to the Christian
Camp, wouldnt it be their choice? >>
Wouldn't her input be important since they can't drive?
Would you let your kids go just ANYWHERE they wanted to go? Skinhead rally?
Cock-fights? My kids have never gone anywhere without talking to me about it
first, and darned if they don't care about my opinion.
And saying "I wouldn't want my children to go" is NOT the same as saying "I
would not let my children go."
<<I won't direct this to anyone specifically.. But, if anyone here who does
not
like "Christian environments" child had the opportunity to go to a sports
camp ( or heck, ANY kind of group doing something they likes) and it was
"Christian", would you let them go?>>
If my kids wanted to go, absolutely yes. Holly likes to go to church. She
doesn't believe in God, having asked questions of several people and not
liked the answers enough to be convinced, but she likes the music, and she
likes the atmosphere. We talked last night about maybe going on Easter, to a
church near here. Lutheran. She's undecided.
Sandra
<< I'm sorry, but I must have missed something.. .I thought unschooling was
not
about what parents 'want" for their kids, its about what kids want for
themselves. >>
I'm sorry, but try not to be snarky.
<< Even
if Mary were a strict Atheist, but her children wanted to go to the Christian
Camp, wouldnt it be their choice? >>
Wouldn't her input be important since they can't drive?
Would you let your kids go just ANYWHERE they wanted to go? Skinhead rally?
Cock-fights? My kids have never gone anywhere without talking to me about it
first, and darned if they don't care about my opinion.
And saying "I wouldn't want my children to go" is NOT the same as saying "I
would not let my children go."
<<I won't direct this to anyone specifically.. But, if anyone here who does
not
like "Christian environments" child had the opportunity to go to a sports
camp ( or heck, ANY kind of group doing something they likes) and it was
"Christian", would you let them go?>>
If my kids wanted to go, absolutely yes. Holly likes to go to church. She
doesn't believe in God, having asked questions of several people and not
liked the answers enough to be convinced, but she likes the music, and she
likes the atmosphere. We talked last night about maybe going on Easter, to a
church near here. Lutheran. She's undecided.
Sandra
Mary
From: "Pamela Sorooshian" <pamsoroosh@...>
<<If my kids wanted sports enough to put up with the praying and giving up
goals for
Jesus - I would help them make it work as best i could. That doesn't
mean I'd WANT my kids in that situation.>>
When I first heard about it, (the sports camp) I was thinking I wasn't sure
either. Joe and I had been to a Christian Homeschoolers Parent support group
and got a real bad taste in our mouth. No we didn't feel comfortable or
welcomed their at all. It was just like being in church and nothing like
homeschooling. Actually it was like school in church!!!!!
So I figured it was at least worth the orientation day as most from my local
support group raved about the coach. (not all christians either) Well after
one short hour of being there and seeing my kids so unconcerned about where
I was and having so much fun, I figured why not. It was pay as you can, come
when you want stop when you want. So I went from being not sure to how can I
possibly say no to this?
<< People were VERY careful not to criticize Mary's choice. Mary held it
up, at first, as an example of a Christian group that was very open to
and comfortable for nonChristians - and was questioned about what that
meant.>>
Actually I first spoke about it when the subject of Christian Homeschoolers
being all spanking no respecting children came up. I was saying how this
group which calls themselves Christian Homeschoolers isn't like that.
<<Sandra and I both said that wouldn't
feel welcoming to us and we wouldn't want our kids involved. It IS,
however, more inclusive than requiring a statement of faith and less
inclusive than, say, an Interfaith sports league which is less
inclusive than a sports league that is just SPORTS and doesn't involve
religion at all.>>
I guess if I looked at it from a religious point of view only, I could see
where it wouldn't be welcoming. But I looked at it from my children's point
of view. Joseph has since joining come to terms with his need to win
attitude and Sierra has managed nicely around a group of kids her own age.
(she was very shy and he was extremely competitive) Both helpful things for
them both. But mostly, it's just fun for them. Joseph was involved with a
non religious T-ball group and by the time season was up, he hated it. With
this group he counts the days until Friday from Sat. They've made lots of
friends and so have I. I don't look at the christian talk as anything to be
annoyed with or upset about because it doesn't include everyone possible. I
look at it as a great opportunity for my children to learn and have fun with
people different from them.
I got flack one time because I let Tara go to summer swims at the local
freshwater beach. The people there were different. They looked different,
they spoke different and listened to different music. Tara and her friend
were literally the only ones there not like everyone else. Tara had a blast
and went all summer long. If I were uncomfortable about any of the things
that the other people were, Tara would have missed out on making great
friends and having a good time. "I" consider sports camp the same thing.
<< I don't have any objection to Christian environments, in general. I
don't find it very welcoming, though, to show up for, say, a dance lesson
and then be treated to an hour of nonstop Christian-only music. We go to
things at people's churches frequently. Sometimes we go to Christmas Eve or
Easter services at other people's churches. We are
guests there and we enjoy it very much. That is different than being a
"member" of an organization that is Christian, though. It is also different
than being exposed on a regular basis to child evangelism>>
I agree with you also on the first part. Now if my child were older and
obviously getting into the religion as in wanting to participate, I wouldn't
have a problem with that. And if my children were coming home saying that
coach said they need to pray and coach said that God says this and that, I
would have a problem with that.
Mary B
<<If my kids wanted sports enough to put up with the praying and giving up
goals for
Jesus - I would help them make it work as best i could. That doesn't
mean I'd WANT my kids in that situation.>>
When I first heard about it, (the sports camp) I was thinking I wasn't sure
either. Joe and I had been to a Christian Homeschoolers Parent support group
and got a real bad taste in our mouth. No we didn't feel comfortable or
welcomed their at all. It was just like being in church and nothing like
homeschooling. Actually it was like school in church!!!!!
So I figured it was at least worth the orientation day as most from my local
support group raved about the coach. (not all christians either) Well after
one short hour of being there and seeing my kids so unconcerned about where
I was and having so much fun, I figured why not. It was pay as you can, come
when you want stop when you want. So I went from being not sure to how can I
possibly say no to this?
<< People were VERY careful not to criticize Mary's choice. Mary held it
up, at first, as an example of a Christian group that was very open to
and comfortable for nonChristians - and was questioned about what that
meant.>>
Actually I first spoke about it when the subject of Christian Homeschoolers
being all spanking no respecting children came up. I was saying how this
group which calls themselves Christian Homeschoolers isn't like that.
<<Sandra and I both said that wouldn't
feel welcoming to us and we wouldn't want our kids involved. It IS,
however, more inclusive than requiring a statement of faith and less
inclusive than, say, an Interfaith sports league which is less
inclusive than a sports league that is just SPORTS and doesn't involve
religion at all.>>
I guess if I looked at it from a religious point of view only, I could see
where it wouldn't be welcoming. But I looked at it from my children's point
of view. Joseph has since joining come to terms with his need to win
attitude and Sierra has managed nicely around a group of kids her own age.
(she was very shy and he was extremely competitive) Both helpful things for
them both. But mostly, it's just fun for them. Joseph was involved with a
non religious T-ball group and by the time season was up, he hated it. With
this group he counts the days until Friday from Sat. They've made lots of
friends and so have I. I don't look at the christian talk as anything to be
annoyed with or upset about because it doesn't include everyone possible. I
look at it as a great opportunity for my children to learn and have fun with
people different from them.
I got flack one time because I let Tara go to summer swims at the local
freshwater beach. The people there were different. They looked different,
they spoke different and listened to different music. Tara and her friend
were literally the only ones there not like everyone else. Tara had a blast
and went all summer long. If I were uncomfortable about any of the things
that the other people were, Tara would have missed out on making great
friends and having a good time. "I" consider sports camp the same thing.
<< I don't have any objection to Christian environments, in general. I
don't find it very welcoming, though, to show up for, say, a dance lesson
and then be treated to an hour of nonstop Christian-only music. We go to
things at people's churches frequently. Sometimes we go to Christmas Eve or
Easter services at other people's churches. We are
guests there and we enjoy it very much. That is different than being a
"member" of an organization that is Christian, though. It is also different
than being exposed on a regular basis to child evangelism>>
I agree with you also on the first part. Now if my child were older and
obviously getting into the religion as in wanting to participate, I wouldn't
have a problem with that. And if my children were coming home saying that
coach said they need to pray and coach said that God says this and that, I
would have a problem with that.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/13/03 7:12:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
intend the question that way. Oh, and btw, I looked in the Websters
Dictionary for "snarky", it was not listed, so I also googled it. Here's
what I got from an urban dictionary. I'm guessing you didnt mean snarky as
in either of the last two definitions. But, if you meant it like the first
one.. THANKS! :-)
Teresa
snarky "snark-ee"
10/9/02 02:16:45 PM
Snarky "snar-kee"
2/24/03 07:17:14 AM
Snarky "snar-kee"
2/27/03 05:38:52 PM
Snarky "snar-kee" Click once to rate this definition: (votes: 6)
SandraDodd@... writes:
> If my kids wanted to go, absolutely yes. Holly likes to go to church. SheThis is really all I was asking. My apologies for being "snarky" I didn't
> doesn't believe in God, having asked questions of several people and not
> liked the answers enough to be convinced, but she likes the music, and she
> likes the atmosphere. We talked last night about maybe going on Easter, to
> a
> church near here. Lutheran. She's undecided.
>
> Sandra
>
intend the question that way. Oh, and btw, I looked in the Websters
Dictionary for "snarky", it was not listed, so I also googled it. Here's
what I got from an urban dictionary. I'm guessing you didnt mean snarky as
in either of the last two definitions. But, if you meant it like the first
one.. THANKS! :-)
Teresa
snarky "snark-ee"
> (adjective) describes a witty mannerism, personality, or behavior that is aSource: <A HREF="http://www.urbandictionary.com/author.php?author=A+Gianotto+%28snipe%29">A Gianotto (snipe)</A>
> combination of sarcasm and cynicism. Usually accepted as a complimentary
> term. Snark is sometimes mistaken for a snotty or arrogant attitude.Her
> snarky remarks had half the room on the floor laughing and the other half
> ready to walk out. Recommend for deletion
10/9/02 02:16:45 PM
Snarky "snar-kee"
> <A HREF="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Informal">Informal</A> touchy, short-tempered, irritable, etc.Source: <A HREF="http://www.urbandictionary.com/author.php?author=MDX">MDX</A>
> I am a little snarky when some pisses on my floor. Recommend for deletion
2/24/03 07:17:14 AM
Snarky "snar-kee"
> a person often described as a rufus, a sexual term in ways, but mostlySource: <A HREF="http://www.urbandictionary.com/author.php?author=hihe">hihe</A>
> rufus, as in awesome! cool! bastardacious!Yo man that was snarkilicious!
> Recommend for deletion
2/27/03 05:38:52 PM
Snarky "snar-kee" Click once to rate this definition: (votes: 6)
> A small, spider-like creature with one eye that is often used in combat[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> situations as a biological weapon. Snarks or snarky's devour oponents and
> are incredibly hard to kill.Holy shit! He's got snarks! Run away!
Rebecca DeLong
grlynbl@... wrote:
<<<I won't direct this to anyone specifically.. But, if anyone here who does not
like "Christian environments" child had the opportunity to go to a sports
camp ( or heck, ANY kind of group doing something they likes) and it was
"Christian", would you let them go?>>>
Honestly, I would try to find a non-religious option, if I couldn't then I would have to think real hard about letting my kids go.
My reasons are this. We are not christian and have no problem with christians, our best friend is christian and so are most of the members of my family, but I find that most of the christians that I know make it their mission to bring my children in their fold. They have not respected my wishes to leave my kids alone. My kids are young and it is not any bodies job to preach to my kids, they are not old enough to not take the things that have been said to them to heart.
I want to say that this is my opinion bases on my pesonal experiences.<g>
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<<I won't direct this to anyone specifically.. But, if anyone here who does not
like "Christian environments" child had the opportunity to go to a sports
camp ( or heck, ANY kind of group doing something they likes) and it was
"Christian", would you let them go?>>>
Honestly, I would try to find a non-religious option, if I couldn't then I would have to think real hard about letting my kids go.
My reasons are this. We are not christian and have no problem with christians, our best friend is christian and so are most of the members of my family, but I find that most of the christians that I know make it their mission to bring my children in their fold. They have not respected my wishes to leave my kids alone. My kids are young and it is not any bodies job to preach to my kids, they are not old enough to not take the things that have been said to them to heart.
I want to say that this is my opinion bases on my pesonal experiences.<g>
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Well, Brianna is my grand daughter. Her bio-mom has a jail record. Here, in Rhode Island, there's a private non-profit called Rhode Islanders Supporting Education. It's for "at-risk" kids. They offer
$3,000 per year for tuition
Money for books & uniforms
Mentor.
Now, I was going to take advantage of this. However, the great schools (at least the ones I thought were great!) started at around $11,000 plus per year.
The only schools I could get her into for that amount of money were small parochial schools.
She didn't go.
Janis
$3,000 per year for tuition
Money for books & uniforms
Mentor.
Now, I was going to take advantage of this. However, the great schools (at least the ones I thought were great!) started at around $11,000 plus per year.
The only schools I could get her into for that amount of money were small parochial schools.
She didn't go.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Rebecca DeLong
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Christian Atheletic Association
grlynbl@... wrote:
<<<I won't direct this to anyone specifically.. But, if anyone here who does not
like "Christian environments" child had the opportunity to go to a sports
camp ( or heck, ANY kind of group doing something they likes) and it was
"Christian", would you let them go?>>>
Honestly, I would try to find a non-religious option, if I couldn't then I would have to think real hard about letting my kids go.
My reasons are this. We are not christian and have no problem with christians, our best friend is christian and so are most of the members of my family, but I find that most of the christians that I know make it their mission to bring my children in their fold. They have not respected my wishes to leave my kids alone. My kids are young and it is not any bodies job to preach to my kids, they are not old enough to not take the things that have been said to them to heart.
I want to say that this is my opinion bases on my pesonal experiences.<g>
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/14/03 1:55:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
elfmama@... writes:
or pressured you or your children. I can totally relate... Sometimes that
kind of environment can feel like you are at a big old Amway convention..
LOL. and you dont want no Amway. :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
elfmama@... writes:
> I want to say that this is my opinion bases on my pesonal experiences.<g>I understand that. And I regret that others have made you feel uncomfortable
>
> Rebecca
>
or pressured you or your children. I can totally relate... Sometimes that
kind of environment can feel like you are at a big old Amway convention..
LOL. and you dont want no Amway. :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**When I first heard about it, (the sports camp) I was thinking I wasn't sure
either. Joe and I had been to a Christian Homeschoolers Parent support group
and got a real bad taste in our mouth. No we didn't feel comfortable or
welcomed their at all. It was just like being in church and nothing like
homeschooling. Actually it was like school in church!!!!!
**
With some of the stories about these hardline Fundamentalist
Homeschoolers it sounds like a school, within a church, within a prison.
Betsy
either. Joe and I had been to a Christian Homeschoolers Parent support group
and got a real bad taste in our mouth. No we didn't feel comfortable or
welcomed their at all. It was just like being in church and nothing like
homeschooling. Actually it was like school in church!!!!!
**
With some of the stories about these hardline Fundamentalist
Homeschoolers it sounds like a school, within a church, within a prison.
Betsy