make-up on kids, especially boys, LONG!
[email protected]
Ok List, I have one for you. First, I'll give you a little background. My son
(who the Q is about) is 8, and has two sisters, 5 and almost 2. I've always
(as in my whole life) thought it was beyond ridiculous that there were (for
instance) toys that boys were "supposed" to play with, and toys girls were
"supposed" to play with. Needless to say (or maybe not since you don't know
me), I've ****never**** uttered one iota about any toy being for a specific
person. So, Ashlen (my son) has dolls and barbies (among lots of other
stuff!!), and my daughters have cars and action figures (among lots of other
stuff!!). If anyone ever (no one has so far) comes up to them and says that a
toy they're playing with is really for a girl/boy (whatever the case may be),
they'd look at them un utter confusment, with a look of "are you from mars or
something". And this is a whole philosophy (not just something about toys),
that whatever interests you, interests you! Has nothing to do with gender
around here. My square, old fashion in-laws, have never said anything, but I
could always "read their minds" when my son got a big ole doll for his
birthday, or when my daughter asked them for a huge Rescue Hero station for
Christmas. (Etc, etc.....) (Something that's been very eye-opening to me is
that my son loves the *boy* toys way more often than the *girl* toys, and my
daughters -even the baby- like the *girl* toys way more often then the *boy*
toys! And many other so-called "boy" and "girl" things!! All without any
utterance from anyone. There's a ***** definite ***** genetic thing going on
here!) Anyhooooooo, my son, in the last year or so has *noticed* that his
sisters have dresses and skirts, and he doesn't, so I've explained that girls
usually wear them, and not boys. It was a bit strange to him to hear that the
first time, because there had never before been anything that one sex was
supposed to do and not the other. Luckily, he really didn't care (meaning he
didn't ask for one). And I explained to him that even though it's silly, s
ociety has a tradition that some things are for boys, and some for girls. We
just agreed it was silly. Also, he has long hair, and only just recently, did
someone call him a girl (to his face), and he realized that long hair is
usually a *girl* thing. Anyway, I'm getting to my question, I really am!!
Just want you to know where we're all coming from! The kids wear make up
around the house whenever they feel like it (it's not very often though).
They have their own stash, and dress up "fancy" sometimes, with make up and
frilly play clothes. They've asked before if they could wear make up "out"
too, because that's what I do. But they didn't insist, and when I asked them
if it was ok if they'd please just wait till we got home, and then they
could, they said yea, and it was dropped. My son just asked again today. So
my question is; Should I just lump it (the looks and snares and maybe even
some comments that I'll get taking them into public), and just say "OK" the
next time I'm asked, or; Do I keep doing what I'm doing, since he/they really
aren't putting up a fight anyway about it, and say "how about not, let's just
wait till we get home"? AND is your answer different if it comes to him/them
**really** wanting to do it? AND is your answer different for my son than my
daughter? SORRY so looooong!!!! Thanks, Lara........
(who the Q is about) is 8, and has two sisters, 5 and almost 2. I've always
(as in my whole life) thought it was beyond ridiculous that there were (for
instance) toys that boys were "supposed" to play with, and toys girls were
"supposed" to play with. Needless to say (or maybe not since you don't know
me), I've ****never**** uttered one iota about any toy being for a specific
person. So, Ashlen (my son) has dolls and barbies (among lots of other
stuff!!), and my daughters have cars and action figures (among lots of other
stuff!!). If anyone ever (no one has so far) comes up to them and says that a
toy they're playing with is really for a girl/boy (whatever the case may be),
they'd look at them un utter confusment, with a look of "are you from mars or
something". And this is a whole philosophy (not just something about toys),
that whatever interests you, interests you! Has nothing to do with gender
around here. My square, old fashion in-laws, have never said anything, but I
could always "read their minds" when my son got a big ole doll for his
birthday, or when my daughter asked them for a huge Rescue Hero station for
Christmas. (Etc, etc.....) (Something that's been very eye-opening to me is
that my son loves the *boy* toys way more often than the *girl* toys, and my
daughters -even the baby- like the *girl* toys way more often then the *boy*
toys! And many other so-called "boy" and "girl" things!! All without any
utterance from anyone. There's a ***** definite ***** genetic thing going on
here!) Anyhooooooo, my son, in the last year or so has *noticed* that his
sisters have dresses and skirts, and he doesn't, so I've explained that girls
usually wear them, and not boys. It was a bit strange to him to hear that the
first time, because there had never before been anything that one sex was
supposed to do and not the other. Luckily, he really didn't care (meaning he
didn't ask for one). And I explained to him that even though it's silly, s
ociety has a tradition that some things are for boys, and some for girls. We
just agreed it was silly. Also, he has long hair, and only just recently, did
someone call him a girl (to his face), and he realized that long hair is
usually a *girl* thing. Anyway, I'm getting to my question, I really am!!
Just want you to know where we're all coming from! The kids wear make up
around the house whenever they feel like it (it's not very often though).
They have their own stash, and dress up "fancy" sometimes, with make up and
frilly play clothes. They've asked before if they could wear make up "out"
too, because that's what I do. But they didn't insist, and when I asked them
if it was ok if they'd please just wait till we got home, and then they
could, they said yea, and it was dropped. My son just asked again today. So
my question is; Should I just lump it (the looks and snares and maybe even
some comments that I'll get taking them into public), and just say "OK" the
next time I'm asked, or; Do I keep doing what I'm doing, since he/they really
aren't putting up a fight anyway about it, and say "how about not, let's just
wait till we get home"? AND is your answer different if it comes to him/them
**really** wanting to do it? AND is your answer different for my son than my
daughter? SORRY so looooong!!!! Thanks, Lara........
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/12/03 8:57:07 PM, Laramike12@... writes:
<< Should I just lump it (the looks and snares and maybe even
some comments that I'll get taking them into public), and just say "OK" the
next time I'm asked, or; Do I keep doing what I'm doing, since he/they really
aren't putting up a fight anyway about it, and say "how about not, let's just
wait till we get home"? AND is your answer different if it comes to him/them
**really** wanting to do it? AND is your answer different for my son than my
daughter? >>
I'm going to answer my own Q, and tell me if I'm way off!! If he *really*
wants to, then yes, lump it. We lump lots of other things that society
doesn't like, why should this be any different? Lara...........
<< Should I just lump it (the looks and snares and maybe even
some comments that I'll get taking them into public), and just say "OK" the
next time I'm asked, or; Do I keep doing what I'm doing, since he/they really
aren't putting up a fight anyway about it, and say "how about not, let's just
wait till we get home"? AND is your answer different if it comes to him/them
**really** wanting to do it? AND is your answer different for my son than my
daughter? >>
I'm going to answer my own Q, and tell me if I'm way off!! If he *really*
wants to, then yes, lump it. We lump lots of other things that society
doesn't like, why should this be any different? Lara...........
Bronwen
>the
> In a message dated 4/12/03 8:57:07 PM, Laramike12@... writes:
>
> << Should I just lump it (the looks and snares and maybe even
> some comments that I'll get taking them into public), and just say "OK"
> next time I'm asked, or; Do I keep doing what I'm doing, since he/theyreally
> aren't putting up a fight anyway about it, and say "how about not, let'sjust
> wait till we get home"? AND is your answer different if it comes tohim/them
> **really** wanting to do it? AND is your answer different for my son thanmy
> daughter? >>*really*
>
> I'm going to answer my own Q, and tell me if I'm way off!! If he
> wants to, then yes, lump it. We lump lots of other things that societyI agree with you. I might give information maybe about our societies views
> doesn't like, why should this be any different? Lara...........
>
about men's "make up" - about other culture's views - lots of tribes wear
men's "make up", this convo could go on as long as he wants, it is awefully
interesting. Then like always- no matter what everyone else says, let them
do what they really want to.
My son spent maybe three whole years being COVERED with marker marks. every
inch of him. his whole face everything- all multi colored - like that Mensh
book um..about the incredible indelible pens or what ever.
You get used to the stares- :-)
Love,
Bronwen
Fetteroll
on 4/12/03 4:55 PM, Laramike12@... at Laramike12@... wrote:
people tend to make comments about things that they find unusual. You don't
need to portray it as a negative, scary thing so much as an interesting
observation on the rest of society just so he isn't making the decision in a
vacuum.
You may want to add to it that, just for interests sake, there are some boys
who do wear makeup like actors. And punks, goths. Historically there have
been times and places when it was common.
There are undoubtedly sexist reasons for insisting women must wear skirts,
but I'm thinking that originally skirts were more practical for going to the
bathroom for girls. If one had to wear something that is.
Though I happen to have a girl who's always liked boy toys more than girl
toys ;-)
Joyce
> Should I just lump it (the looks and snares and maybe evenI guess I would point out that it isn't common for boys to wear makeup and
> some comments that I'll get taking them into public), and just say "OK" the
> next time I'm asked
people tend to make comments about things that they find unusual. You don't
need to portray it as a negative, scary thing so much as an interesting
observation on the rest of society just so he isn't making the decision in a
vacuum.
You may want to add to it that, just for interests sake, there are some boys
who do wear makeup like actors. And punks, goths. Historically there have
been times and places when it was common.
> Anyhooooooo, my son, in the last year or so has *noticed* that hisYou could ask him if he can think of a reason why.
> sisters have dresses and skirts, and he doesn't, so I've explained that girls
> usually wear them, and not boys. It was a bit strange to him to hear that the
> first time, because there had never before been anything that one sex was
> supposed to do and not the other.
There are undoubtedly sexist reasons for insisting women must wear skirts,
but I'm thinking that originally skirts were more practical for going to the
bathroom for girls. If one had to wear something that is.
> Something that's been very eye-opening to me isVery definitely. The differences in the sexes isn't just sexist stuff.
> that my son loves the *boy* toys way more often than the *girl* toys, and my
> daughters -even the baby- like the *girl* toys way more often then the *boy*
> toys!
Though I happen to have a girl who's always liked boy toys more than girl
toys ;-)
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/12/03 3:30:59 PM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< There are undoubtedly sexist reasons for insisting women must wear skirts,
but I'm thinking that originally skirts were more practical for going to the
bathroom for girls. If one had to wear something that is. >>
In some other cultures, women wear pants of some sort and men wear "skirts."
It seems random overall.
What I would personally do and what you want to do could likely be two WAY
different sets of things, but I would casually and gradually find him things
with men in makeup. Rock'n'roll concerts of David Bowie, Keith Richards
<bwg>/Mick Jagger, Prince. I would bring along To Wong Foo; Priscilla,
Queen of the Desert; and my current amazement, the Eddie Izzard special.
He's wearing make-up but it has nothing to do with anything, he just likes
to.
But then I think... my kids have seen all that stuff and the boys haven't
ever worn make-up. But because of those things, if your son comes over
wearing make-up they're not going to act like simian rednecks, either!
Holly likes to wear makeup and she doesn't always, but when she does it
ranges from subtle and tasteful to long purple Halloween fake eyelashes (two
weeks ago, for the Harry Potter tournament), stick-on jewels, three-tone nail
polish... I just let it go.
A couple of times I have reminded her that some families don't think young
girls should wear make-up and that I don't mind her wearing it, but if a
conservative family seems disturbed, that's why. And a couple of times I've
done a little more careful reminding of being careful for men and cars and
such, when she goes out dressed looking older than she is. That, too, is
occasional and doesn't seem to be on purpose. She has a huge range of
styles, but a couple of times she has randomized up a set that comes on as "a
little too sexy." Once I just said "That needs a Levi jacket if you're going
out in a very public place." She understood.
It's a shame there are perverts and nasty guys, but unfortunately there are.
And if she dressed as modestly as the local Mennonites, there would still be
perverts and nasty guys. If all women wearing grey could prevent perversion,
that would be EASY!
Once again, I have gone afield. <g>
Answers to all questions: "It depends."
Sandra
<< There are undoubtedly sexist reasons for insisting women must wear skirts,
but I'm thinking that originally skirts were more practical for going to the
bathroom for girls. If one had to wear something that is. >>
In some other cultures, women wear pants of some sort and men wear "skirts."
It seems random overall.
What I would personally do and what you want to do could likely be two WAY
different sets of things, but I would casually and gradually find him things
with men in makeup. Rock'n'roll concerts of David Bowie, Keith Richards
<bwg>/Mick Jagger, Prince. I would bring along To Wong Foo; Priscilla,
Queen of the Desert; and my current amazement, the Eddie Izzard special.
He's wearing make-up but it has nothing to do with anything, he just likes
to.
But then I think... my kids have seen all that stuff and the boys haven't
ever worn make-up. But because of those things, if your son comes over
wearing make-up they're not going to act like simian rednecks, either!
Holly likes to wear makeup and she doesn't always, but when she does it
ranges from subtle and tasteful to long purple Halloween fake eyelashes (two
weeks ago, for the Harry Potter tournament), stick-on jewels, three-tone nail
polish... I just let it go.
A couple of times I have reminded her that some families don't think young
girls should wear make-up and that I don't mind her wearing it, but if a
conservative family seems disturbed, that's why. And a couple of times I've
done a little more careful reminding of being careful for men and cars and
such, when she goes out dressed looking older than she is. That, too, is
occasional and doesn't seem to be on purpose. She has a huge range of
styles, but a couple of times she has randomized up a set that comes on as "a
little too sexy." Once I just said "That needs a Levi jacket if you're going
out in a very public place." She understood.
It's a shame there are perverts and nasty guys, but unfortunately there are.
And if she dressed as modestly as the local Mennonites, there would still be
perverts and nasty guys. If all women wearing grey could prevent perversion,
that would be EASY!
Once again, I have gone afield. <g>
Answers to all questions: "It depends."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/12/2003 5:19:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
felesina@... writes:
Permanent markers EVERY where! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
felesina@... writes:
> My son spent maybe three whole years being COVERED with marker marks. everyYeah---Cameron was a tiger or a dalmation or a jaguar or a giraffe or.....
> inch of him. his whole face everything- all multi colored - like that
> Mensh
> book um..about the incredible indelible pens or what ever.
> You get used to the stares- :-)
Permanent markers EVERY where! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> > Something that's been very eye-opening to me isand my
> > that my son loves the *boy* toys way more often than the *girl* toys,
> > daughters -even the baby- like the *girl* toys way more often then the*boy*
> > toys!My daughter had a wide variety of toys to play with, dolls, cars, trucks,
play jewelry, etc. She just played with the "girl" stuff. When her little
brother started crawling, the first thing he did was crawl over to a little
car and start pushing it, making motor noises. Yeah, some of it's *got* to
be genetic.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Fetteroll
on 4/17/03 8:22 AM, coyote's corner at jana@... wrote:
hunk of fur around you.
Pants are relatively complex to make. There must have been a driving need to
create something more complex. So what was it?
Joyce
> Originally - no one wore "pants"Skirts and dresses are just the next step up in complexity from wrapping a
hunk of fur around you.
Pants are relatively complex to make. There must have been a driving need to
create something more complex. So what was it?
Joyce
Sorcha
>>>Pants are relatively complex to make. There must have been a drivingneed to
create something more complex. So what was it?<<<
Horseback riding.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachel Ann
Warmth? How hard are they to make really? I mean loose, unfitted kind. More
like a skirt with a seam down the middle. When did they first make their
appearance? Wasn't the ice man wearing some sort of pant?
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, April 13, 2003 09:40:02
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] make-up on kids, especially boys, LONG!
create something more complex. So what was it?<<<
Horseback riding.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
like a skirt with a seam down the middle. When did they first make their
appearance? Wasn't the ice man wearing some sort of pant?
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, April 13, 2003 09:40:02
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] make-up on kids, especially boys, LONG!
>>>Pants are relatively complex to make. There must have been a drivingneed to
create something more complex. So what was it?<<<
Horseback riding.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/13/2003 8:43:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
~Kelly, guessing
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> Pants are relatively complex to make. There must have been a driving need toHorses?
> create something more complex. So what was it?
~Kelly, guessing
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/13/03 9:39:37 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< > Pants are relatively complex to make. There must have been a driving
need to
Sand in the desert?
That's where lots of women wear pants traditionally. Nomadic tribes.
Men's pants in northwestern Europe/Britain/Scandinavia were for a long time,
1000 years and some ago separate leggings before they had a crotch. They
were tied to a belt. So there were two pants legs but no "pair of pants."
Women didn't wear them. They also weren't in a sandy desert.
Sandra
<< > Pants are relatively complex to make. There must have been a driving
need to
> create something more complex. So what was it?Horses? >>
Sand in the desert?
That's where lots of women wear pants traditionally. Nomadic tribes.
Men's pants in northwestern Europe/Britain/Scandinavia were for a long time,
1000 years and some ago separate leggings before they had a crotch. They
were tied to a belt. So there were two pants legs but no "pair of pants."
Women didn't wear them. They also weren't in a sandy desert.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/13/03 6:43:08 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< Skirts and dresses are just the next step up in complexity from wrapping a
hunk of fur around you. >>
Some cultures are fur based (and their clothing styles even now reflect that)
and some are cloth based (and ditto).
One of the coolest books ever is a little pamphlet, basically, from The Royal
Ontario Museum called Cut My Cote. The museum didn't have it listed for
sale. Some other places did but I'm not bringing a link because their
descriptions (two I read) were off the mark. But if any of you come across
it used, it's worth getting for sure. I has 38 pages, it has a
screen-printed style cover, white on black.
Sandra
<< Skirts and dresses are just the next step up in complexity from wrapping a
hunk of fur around you. >>
Some cultures are fur based (and their clothing styles even now reflect that)
and some are cloth based (and ditto).
One of the coolest books ever is a little pamphlet, basically, from The Royal
Ontario Museum called Cut My Cote. The museum didn't have it listed for
sale. Some other places did but I'm not bringing a link because their
descriptions (two I read) were off the mark. But if any of you come across
it used, it's worth getting for sure. I has 38 pages, it has a
screen-printed style cover, white on black.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/13/03 8:11:04 AM, hindar@... writes:
<< Warmth? How hard are they to make really? I mean loose, unfitted kind.
More
like a skirt with a seam down the middle. When did they first make their
appearance? Wasn't the ice man wearing some sort of pant? >>
European evolution of pants started with one crotch wrap and then leg wraps.
They're more complicated than a skirt with a seam, for sure.
On really interesting traditional pants style in India has a GIANT crotch
section, and tight legs to the knees. They look like a big arch three feet
wide at the top when laid out flat.
Japanese hakama are interesting, too--LOTS of cloth, pleated, tied in such a
way as to give a lot of flexibility.
Pants are interesting, but not simple.
I found this and it has something about traditional Middle Eastern makeup. I
haven't followed many links, but there are LOTS. It's the site of an SCA
costumer, I think at a glance, but the background and title art on the page
are so great that even without the make-up tie in, it's worth a look.
Sandra
<A HREF="http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/links-ME-costume.html">Near and Middle
Eastern Costume Sites Worth See…</A>
<< Warmth? How hard are they to make really? I mean loose, unfitted kind.
More
like a skirt with a seam down the middle. When did they first make their
appearance? Wasn't the ice man wearing some sort of pant? >>
European evolution of pants started with one crotch wrap and then leg wraps.
They're more complicated than a skirt with a seam, for sure.
On really interesting traditional pants style in India has a GIANT crotch
section, and tight legs to the knees. They look like a big arch three feet
wide at the top when laid out flat.
Japanese hakama are interesting, too--LOTS of cloth, pleated, tied in such a
way as to give a lot of flexibility.
Pants are interesting, but not simple.
I found this and it has something about traditional Middle Eastern makeup. I
haven't followed many links, but there are LOTS. It's the site of an SCA
costumer, I think at a glance, but the background and title art on the page
are so great that even without the make-up tie in, it's worth a look.
Sandra
<A HREF="http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/links-ME-costume.html">Near and Middle
Eastern Costume Sites Worth See…</A>
Mary
From: "Fetteroll" <fetteroll@...>
<<Pants are relatively complex to make. There must have been a driving need
to
create something more complex. So what was it?>>
Swinging genitals??
Mary B
<<Pants are relatively complex to make. There must have been a driving need
to
create something more complex. So what was it?>>
Swinging genitals??
Mary B
Robyn Coburn
Mosaics from ancient Rome show women entertainers in bikini underwear -
strophium and pagne.
Reliefs from the 2nd century AD show Roman soldiers clearly in some type
of pant - like pedal pushers - right beside their skirted counterparts.
Long pants were worn by women and men in the Byzantine time under the
long and short tunics, an influence from Persian pantaloons and Iranian
costumes.
Pants are shown in a fresco from 3rd century BC and the text of my book
(20000 years of Fashion - Francios Boucher) says they came from the
mountain dwellers of the Steppes of Central Asia. The book calls the
trousers "an innovation of capital importance" and "indissolubly linked
with the use of the horse in the Steppes".
It is also suggested that trousers were the garb of the affluent - which
makes sense from the complexity of the construction in comparison to a
tunic type of garment.
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
strophium and pagne.
Reliefs from the 2nd century AD show Roman soldiers clearly in some type
of pant - like pedal pushers - right beside their skirted counterparts.
Long pants were worn by women and men in the Byzantine time under the
long and short tunics, an influence from Persian pantaloons and Iranian
costumes.
Pants are shown in a fresco from 3rd century BC and the text of my book
(20000 years of Fashion - Francios Boucher) says they came from the
mountain dwellers of the Steppes of Central Asia. The book calls the
trousers "an innovation of capital importance" and "indissolubly linked
with the use of the horse in the Steppes".
It is also suggested that trousers were the garb of the affluent - which
makes sense from the complexity of the construction in comparison to a
tunic type of garment.
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Originally - no one wore "pants"
Janis
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] make-up on kids, especially boys, LONG!
on 4/12/03 4:55 PM, Laramike12@... at Laramike12@... wrote:
> Should I just lump it (the looks and snares and maybe even
> some comments that I'll get taking them into public), and just say "OK" the
> next time I'm asked
I guess I would point out that it isn't common for boys to wear makeup and
people tend to make comments about things that they find unusual. You don't
need to portray it as a negative, scary thing so much as an interesting
observation on the rest of society just so he isn't making the decision in a
vacuum.
You may want to add to it that, just for interests sake, there are some boys
who do wear makeup like actors. And punks, goths. Historically there have
been times and places when it was common.
> Anyhooooooo, my son, in the last year or so has *noticed* that his
> sisters have dresses and skirts, and he doesn't, so I've explained that girls
> usually wear them, and not boys. It was a bit strange to him to hear that the
> first time, because there had never before been anything that one sex was
> supposed to do and not the other.
You could ask him if he can think of a reason why.
There are undoubtedly sexist reasons for insisting women must wear skirts,
but I'm thinking that originally skirts were more practical for going to the
bathroom for girls. If one had to wear something that is.
> Something that's been very eye-opening to me is
> that my son loves the *boy* toys way more often than the *girl* toys, and my
> daughters -even the baby- like the *girl* toys way more often then the *boy*
> toys!
Very definitely. The differences in the sexes isn't just sexist stuff.
Though I happen to have a girl who's always liked boy toys more than girl
toys ;-)
Joyce
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