Physical force
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/11/03 9:42:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, EBA7009@...
writes:
physical force would be used to detain them. So no, it's not okay for
civilians to duke it out over a disagreement, but a figure of authority
sometimes uses necessary force. Why is it okay for adults in authority over
other adults? But not for adults in authority over kids? I don't like
spanking. I don't even like it as a last resort. My dh feels differently.
When he threatens the kids with spanking, I get on him. He loves and
respects his mother more than anyone on earth, and she spanked him
occasionally, for serious offenses. I still say parent from love, not from
fear. Spanking instills fear. Any insight?
Ang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Hitting teaches the child that physical force is ok.If an adult and broke the law, they would be punished, if they resisted,
>
physical force would be used to detain them. So no, it's not okay for
civilians to duke it out over a disagreement, but a figure of authority
sometimes uses necessary force. Why is it okay for adults in authority over
other adults? But not for adults in authority over kids? I don't like
spanking. I don't even like it as a last resort. My dh feels differently.
When he threatens the kids with spanking, I get on him. He loves and
respects his mother more than anyone on earth, and she spanked him
occasionally, for serious offenses. I still say parent from love, not from
fear. Spanking instills fear. Any insight?
Ang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/11/2003 12:31:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
unolist@... writes:
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unolist@... writes:
> If an adult and broke the law, they would be punished, if they resisted,Learned behavior from BOTH sides?
> physical force would be used to detain them. So no, it's not okay for
> civilians to duke it out over a disagreement, but a figure of authority
> sometimes uses necessary force. Why is it okay for adults in authority over
>
> other adults?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
No insight here.
My husband and I were both spanked. It taught me to resent my parents who were hypocrites at the time.
My husband says he learned to respect his mother (and he *did* respect her) bec. of the spankings. But then she was no hypocrite either.
He thinks I'm not making the kids work hard enough for what I give them. I tell him what I give them is part of their education. He says he didn't have those things. I say he had those opportunities in school.
So, I don't have any answers.
My husband and I were both spanked. It taught me to resent my parents who were hypocrites at the time.
My husband says he learned to respect his mother (and he *did* respect her) bec. of the spankings. But then she was no hypocrite either.
He thinks I'm not making the kids work hard enough for what I give them. I tell him what I give them is part of their education. He says he didn't have those things. I say he had those opportunities in school.
So, I don't have any answers.
----- Original Message -----
From: unolist@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 12:30 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Physical force
In a message dated 4/11/03 9:42:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, EBA7009@...
writes:
> Hitting teaches the child that physical force is ok.
>
If an adult and broke the law, they would be punished, if they resisted,
physical force would be used to detain them. So no, it's not okay for
civilians to duke it out over a disagreement, but a figure of authority
sometimes uses necessary force. Why is it okay for adults in authority over
other adults? But not for adults in authority over kids? I don't like
spanking. I don't even like it as a last resort. My dh feels differently.
When he threatens the kids with spanking, I get on him. He loves and
respects his mother more than anyone on earth, and she spanked him
occasionally, for serious offenses. I still say parent from love, not from
fear. Spanking instills fear. Any insight?
Ang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> If an adult and broke the law, they would be punished, if they resisted,over
> physical force would be used to detain them. So no, it's not okay for
> civilians to duke it out over a disagreement, but a figure of authority
> sometimes uses necessary force. Why is it okay for adults in authority
> other adults? But not for adults in authority over kids?The cops aren't *supposed* to use more force than is needed to accomplish an
arrest. The jails aren't supposed to use corporal punishment as far as I
know.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/11/03 12:31:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, unolist@...
writes:
over them. When I was spanked as a child I was never told that it OK for my
mother to spank me but not any other adult. I was led to believe that all
adults had authority over me. My grandmother could spank me, the neighbors
if I were doing something considered inappropriate, etc. I always want my
boys to question authority.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> So no, it's not okay forI don't want my children to get the idea that all adults are in authority
> civilians to duke it out over a disagreement, but a figure of authority
> sometimes uses necessary force. Why is it okay for adults in authority over
>
> other adults? But not for adults in authority over kids?
over them. When I was spanked as a child I was never told that it OK for my
mother to spank me but not any other adult. I was led to believe that all
adults had authority over me. My grandmother could spank me, the neighbors
if I were doing something considered inappropriate, etc. I always want my
boys to question authority.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/11/03 12:51:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
being spanked he learned to respect his mother, but as a child did he respect
or fear her?
I feared my mother. My heart would pound if I heard her footsteps on the
stairs etc.
At my dad's funeral we flew home from Germany, my mother had passed the year
before, we slept in my old room. And my brother and his family slept across
the hall in his old room. Everytime I heard one of them coming up the stairs
my heart would pound like I was a child again. Pavlov all over.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> My husband says he learned to respect his mother (and he *did* respect her)I was just curious about this. I know it is easy to say, as an adult, that
> bec. of the spankings. But then she was no hypocrite either.
>
>
being spanked he learned to respect his mother, but as a child did he respect
or fear her?
I feared my mother. My heart would pound if I heard her footsteps on the
stairs etc.
At my dad's funeral we flew home from Germany, my mother had passed the year
before, we slept in my old room. And my brother and his family slept across
the hall in his old room. Everytime I heard one of them coming up the stairs
my heart would pound like I was a child again. Pavlov all over.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/11/03 12:51:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
she was doing the best she could at the time with the information she had.
Had she know a different way I believe she would have chosen it. She had so
many other great qualities about her.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> My husband says he learned to respect his mother (and he *did* respect her)I guess I learned to respect my mother despite how she spanked me. I believe
> bec. of the spankings. But then she was no hypocrite either
she was doing the best she could at the time with the information she had.
Had she know a different way I believe she would have chosen it. She had so
many other great qualities about her.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/11/2003 3:33:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
genant2@... writes:
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
genant2@... writes:
> At my dad's funeral we flew home from Germany, my mother had passed the yearOh, Pam! I'm SO sorry!
>
> before, we slept in my old room. And my brother and his family slept
> across
> the hall in his old room. Everytime I heard one of them coming up the
> stairs
> my heart would pound like I was a child again. Pavlov all over.
> Pam G.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-=-I feared my mother. My heart would pound if I heard her footsteps on the
stairs etc.
-=-
Pam, that is so sad.
I'm glad you're able to heal from that, in part, by how you treat and feel
about your children.
Thanks for sharing that even the sounds of others on those stairs brought
back the feeling.
Sandra
stairs etc.
-=-
Pam, that is so sad.
I'm glad you're able to heal from that, in part, by how you treat and feel
about your children.
Thanks for sharing that even the sounds of others on those stairs brought
back the feeling.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/11/03 3:51:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
term.
I also have discussed this with my boys. How I was raised, why I think my
Mom did the things she did, why I choose not to. How that made me feel
etc,etc. I think in that way we grow as individuals. Even though my Mom was
not around to know my boys I tell them all about her, good and not so good.
I guess I want them to know that parenting is a choice like a lot of other
things in life. I wear a pin that says "parenting by choice." You can make
changes and choices for yourself. You don't have to do things because that
is the way you were raised or because society says you should etc. And with
unschooling you are choosing something great that not many other people have
discovered. I am making a choice to do better than my parents.
Anyway too long
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I'm glad you're able to heal from that, in part, by how you treat and feelI do feel that people don't realize the effect spanking has on a child long
> about your children.
>
>
term.
I also have discussed this with my boys. How I was raised, why I think my
Mom did the things she did, why I choose not to. How that made me feel
etc,etc. I think in that way we grow as individuals. Even though my Mom was
not around to know my boys I tell them all about her, good and not so good.
I guess I want them to know that parenting is a choice like a lot of other
things in life. I wear a pin that says "parenting by choice." You can make
changes and choices for yourself. You don't have to do things because that
is the way you were raised or because society says you should etc. And with
unschooling you are choosing something great that not many other people have
discovered. I am making a choice to do better than my parents.
Anyway too long
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa M. C. Bentley
> > If an adult and broke the law, they would be punished, if they resisted,Physical force for detainment is completely different than physical
> > physical force would be used to detain them. So no, it's not okay for
> > civilians to duke it out over a disagreement, but a figure of authority
> > sometimes uses necessary force. Why is it okay for adults in authority over
> > other adults?
force of beating and hitting. There are many police officers who _DO_
go too far! That is NOT fine. We, as citizens, should help enforce
that when a cop hurts a person that the cop is accountable for their
actions. Of course, they should be able to defend themselves when
needed. We ALL should, and I've taken lots of training to ensure that
*I* could if I needed to.
I have physically restrained my children. I don't like it. However,
when we are in a crowded parking lot with cars going way too fast
everywhere and my little child wants to run around, I pick them up and
hold them. I don't do this harshly or in a mean manner and I usually
say something along the lines of, "There are cars everywhere and you are
too little for them to see you, I need to hold you." Sometimes that has
been fine, sometimes they've screamed, "No!" Either way, I remain calm
and talk (sometimes whisper) to them about how this situation is no fun,
so let's hurry and get out of it. And, the biggest solution for not
ever doing this type of physical restraint ever is to avoid these
situations with toddlers that don't quite get it yet. :) I do a lot of
internet shopping.
Just now, my 2.5 yo showed me another way in which I have been and will
continue to be physical with her: She was yanking on her older sister's
neck hurting her and not realizing it, but nevertheless trapping here
sister and causing pain. I swooped in, picked her up, exclaimed that we
don't hurt Zoe, then took her to sit with me instead (she is now
breastfeeding while I type one handed). That was very much an authority
coming in and doing a physical action. This is fine, actually good. If
I hadn't stepped in, she would have learned that she could hurt her
sister and her sister would have learned that I wouldn't be there to
stop it.
THIS IS NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL AS SPANKING! Police interaction shouldn't
be, either.
-Lisa in AZ