[email protected]

Hello
My name is Naticia and if you had asked me about homeschooling before 9:00 am
on Wednesday, May 12, I would have told you that I think it's great (I even
have friends that homeschool) but it's not for me. In fact, I had this very
conversation with another mom just down the hall from my son, Wesley's, 3rd
grade classroom. She and I were discussing how much the school had "gone
down hill" since all the political changes at headquarters started 2 years
ago (they want better test scores by the year 2000). And that because of
this test score thing homeschooling was looking like a good idea, but we
concluded that it wasn't for either one of us.

As you can tell by the title of this post, I am forever changed as we (my
son, husband, and I) have decided to join the ranks of homeschoolers
(definitely leaning towards unschooling). I am scared and I feel as though I
have taken a giant leap off a cliff and yet, I do not feel as though I am
falling (making the wrong decision). If you're interested in my story I'd
love to share it, but first I have a few questions:

-It is my understanding that kids at this age (9) usually need 3-6 months
"de-tox time". Has anyone been through this? What was your experience?
What did you do with your child during this time? How long did it take to
"get your child back"?

-Wesley is very good at math and he likes it a lot. My concern is that he
has learned to add in an unusual way. Instead of adding from the right and
carrying the numbers, he adds from the left. He gets the answers right, but
I feel compelled to show him another way. He is learning to multiply now and
you must work from the right when you multiply or the answer doesn't come out
right. I am open to suggestions and ideas.

-Wesley has a 2 year old sister (Very 2!). I have heard that one of the most
difficult times to homeschool is with a toddler in the house. What are your
experiences and how have you coped with having a toddler in the house?

-How do you find/make time for yourself if you are with the kids all the
time. I currently find it very challenging finding time just to pay the
bills let alone make time for myself without taking my daughter to someone
else's house.

If you are interested, here is our story:

I hated public school. My parents put me into Kindergarten when I was 4 yo
because I was very verbal. By 3rd grade I was reading at a middle school
level but couldn't get the math. I repeated 3rd grade and felt like a
failure in general because of this experience. Finally, when I was about 30
yo I took a college algebra class and aced it. My self esteem improved in
the math area but what a waste of 20 some odd years of self esteem.

My husband's experience was very positive during the grade school years. He
attended a magnet school much like the one we put Wes into before all the
political changes started happening. After that he went into the regular
system and didn't like it very much.

Because of our experiences my dh, Jeff and I found the most alternative grade
school in our school district and the most alternative teachers in that
school. We wanted our son's school experience to be a positive one.

I guess Wes started complaining 2 years ago. With the birth of his sister he
said that he wanted to stay home. I thought it was just because he wanted to
be home with us (I became a SAHM). He had been in daycare since he was 2 1/2
mo (no flames please). We really needed the money.

Anyway, I think it started at the end of first grade. Summer came and things
were better. Second grade started and he complained every now and then but
nothing to cause alarm or maybe I was too absorbed in baby duties to notice.
In October of his 3rd grade year I was in a car accident and so my otherwise
free time suddenly focused on getting treatment for my injurys. All this
school year he has become more and more vocal about not wanting to go to
school. He has also lost all interest in studying snakes and bugs like he
enjoyed in the past and he has become more obnoxious in general. It's been a
challenging year for all of us.

Wednesday, May 12, I had a Dr. appt. I had to drop Wes at school by 8:15,
drop Mara off at her baby-sitter's at 8:45 so I could make it to my appt. by
9:30. Well, Wes complained that he wanted to come with me, I said no and to
make a long story short his teacher had to physically hold him to keep him
from running out of the building. I took Mara to her baby-sitters and
canceled my appt. I went back and took Wes out for "coffee". I asked him
what was happening for him and he asked me for a piece of paper and a pen. I
obliged and he proceed to draw me pie charts to explain why he hated school
so much.

Although I had my listening face on, in my mind my jaw had dropped to the
floor and I realized that something just didn't make sense. Here is a nine
yo child telling me why he hates school using pie charts and fractions. Math
and PE got whole pies because he really likes those subjects. Art got only
1/8 of a pie. I decided that this was a good time to go look at other
schools.

I called another elementary school that 2 moms had recommended to see if we
could come visit. The receptionist said that we could but that it would be
better to wait until June because things would be more settled then.

I had heard about a place called the Home School Connections Center so I took
Wesley there. We walked in the building and Wes stayed in the lobby stating
that he didn't want to be homeschooled. I said "Fine, you can stay out here
but I'm going in cause I want to see what it's all about." He stayed in the
lobby for a few minutes and then was enticed in by the woman who is in
charge. She encouraged him to pick a computer game and have fun (he chose
Oregon Trail II). Meanwhile, I went in and was introduced to an Unschooling
mom. She encouraged me to read Dumbing Us Down, The Unschooling Handbook and
"anything by Holt". They invited me to their open house which was, by
chance, the next evening. I went and was really excited by what they had to
offer. The next morning Wesley told Jeff he wanted to be home schooled!

For two weeks I read and visited Wesley's classroom a different time each
day. I discovered that my son is basically bored and his teacher spends most
of her time doing crowd control over her class of 28. Although I really like
his teacher's philosophy I believe she is not allowed to teach the way she
wants. She has too many kids, no support, and mandates from up above to
improve test scores.

If you've made it this far, thank you for listening. I am open to anything
anyone wants to share. My biggest reason for not homeschooling in the past
was because I was afraid I'd "ruin" my child. After seeing and reading about
what's really going on I figure I can't do any worse than the public schools
so I'm gonna give it my best shot! So here I am a one week old convert who
has just taken a giant leap. Feeling rather scared and peaceful at the same
time.

Naticia
WA

Lois Hoover

>From: Cyberdoula@...
>>
>As you can tell by the title of this post, I am forever changed as we (my
>son, husband, and I) have decided to join the ranks of homeschoolers
>(definitely leaning towards unschooling). I am scared and I feel as
though I
>have taken a giant leap off a cliff and yet, I do not feel as though I am
>falling (making the wrong decision). If you're interested in my story I'd
>love to share it, but first I have a few questions:
>
Wow that sounds about as fast as the decision we made with my son. He was
bugging me, but I didn't think he and I would survive, then one day things
got ugly at school he came home and told me he didn't want to ever go back
and out of frustration at hearing this for months I remarked "Then don't"
He never went back and I had some real quick decisions to make to get us
approved as it was still the school year and we didn't have the permission
yet, so until I got everything together he was considered truant. I think
they finally took pity on me and didn't turn us in because there were only
really something like seven days left to the year and he hadn't missed much
school so he was marked absent.

We took those days (while his brother was still in school trying to decide
if this was for him too) to get to know each other. Granted we had to
figure out our objectives so it gave us time to talk about his past years
in school a little more level headed while we wrote these up. We had
lunches together and took walks to clear our heads ... But we grew much
closer during this time which was the turning point here. I'd suggest since
it's the end of the year anyway that you are starting. Take the summer to
heal as a family. Let the children suggest activities that they'd missed
doing (if you are up to it) if it helps carry a notepad to jot down the
things that you've discussed/done that would fit into the "subject areas"
if you were keeping track or had to for your district. That way you may
feel more comfortable with unschooling while at the same time you will all
be together learning about each other.

>-It is my understanding that kids at this age (9) usually need 3-6 months
>"de-tox time". Has anyone been through this? What was your experience?

Wow, mine was 10 and because of a horrible experience being labeled ADD and
being told he'd never make it in the real world he had no self esteem.. It
took him the entire first year home and then a couple more months. But once
he found that he wasn't stupid he perked right up and has been so happy.
Hopefully it won't take that long for you.

>What did you do with your child during this time? How long did it take to
>"get your child back"?
>
I have my son back, both of them actually. It didn't take as long with my
oldest as he was an honor student so the self esteem issues were different
than his brothers. What did we do? Well when Sept hit we tried school at
home, with workbooks and stuff. But by nov we were unschooling. so my time
was the summer vacation where we simply talked about what they wanted out
of our "school year". For my youngest who was 10, we simply knew we needed
a hands on approach for him to learn, but finding the right approach that
he would feel he was learning something without it being school or
something that he hated. My oldest finally started spending time with his
brother and learning that he really did like him. They spent hours in the
woods by our home tracking animals and drawing the prints they found to
keep a diary of, we started going bowling together a couple times a month
with hsers, we took lots of walks. the downside in the beginning was that
they were obsessed with tv and video games. I thought I was going to lose
it with the tv, but that ended as soon as they realized that they were
bored. My oldest simply wanted to have the time to watch all the shows that
he couldn't while in school, but then realized that to follow all these you
couldn't have a life. I don't think he's turned the tv on since Thurs.
night when we rented a movie.

>-Wesley is very good at math and he likes it a lot. My concern is that he
>has learned to add in an unusual way. Instead of adding from the right and
>carrying the numbers, he adds from the left. He gets the answers right, but
>I feel compelled to show him another way. He is learning to multiply now
and
>you must work from the right when you multiply or the answer doesn't come
out
>right. I am open to suggestions and ideas.
>
Let him have a calculator to check what he does. Actually my oldest says
that he sees the math in his head so what he shows on paper is completely
confusing to me. I don't even try to figure it out, it works for him and
that seems to be all that matters. If your son asks for help, then you can
show him the steps, but he might be on to something.

>-Wesley has a 2 year old sister (Very 2!). I have heard that one of the
most
>difficult times to homeschool is with a toddler in the house.

I don't have a toddler, so I can't help much, but what do you do during
summer vacations? I think that personally a toddler would only be a
hinderance if you were doing school at home where you needed the time to
sit at the table uninterrupted.


What are your
>experiences and how have you coped with having a toddler in the house?
>
When mine were small, (and before school) they spent a lot of time outside.
The younger one would play hours of basketball on the court so I'd find a
seat and let him play. During that time my oldest could ride his bike
around where I could see or could have my attention. We read a lot while
the younger one, supposedly playing basketball, actually listened. I
realized how much he was listening when last year I asked him if he wanted
me to read him Tom Sawyer as it was one of his brothers favorites. He told
me he remembered me reading it while he played basketball. I didn't really
believe he remembered the story, but just to prove the point he told me the
story mostly in order letting me know all his favorite parts. BTW his
favorite part was how Tom convinced the others to whitewash the fence. He
did ask what whitewash was, but he knew the story.

>-How do you find/make time for yourself if you are with the kids all the
>time.

It's different at each stage. I'm a single mother so I've never had time
away. When they were little, they had bedtimes so that was my time, when
they came home from school they were older so they didn't want a bedtime,
now my time is when they go out to play as they don't need me to follow
them around. You'll find your time, even if it's getting up a little
earlier for that one cup of tea before everyone wakes.


I currently find it very challenging finding time just to pay the
>bills let alone make time for myself without taking my daughter to someone
>else's house.

Your son could probably help pay the bills, my son loves putting together
the budget. He is a great help to me with that, and he never forgets any of
the little things that I tend to forget.

>

Andi Kaufman

welcome naticia,

you will love homeschooling. It is scary but it is fun and so much less
stressful once you relax.

>-It is my understanding that kids at this age (9) usually need 3-6 months
>"de-tox time". Has anyone been through this? What was your experience?
>What did you do with your child during this time? How long did it take to
>"get your child back"?

we pulled isaac out after 2nd grade adn he needed 3 mo to deschool. it was
hard but i gave him the time he needed and kept the lines of communication
open.

>-Wesley is very good at math and he likes it a lot. My concern is that he
>has learned to add in an unusual way. Instead of adding from the right and
>carrying the numbers, he adds from the left. He gets the answers right, but
>I feel compelled to show him another way. He is learning to multiply now and
>you must work from the right when you multiply or the answer doesn't come out
>right. I am open to suggestions and ideas.

if he gets it right and enjoys it does it matter if he does it the way the
school does.

>-How do you find/make time for yourself if you are with the kids all the
>time. I currently find it very challenging finding time just to pay the
>bills let alone make time for myself without taking my daughter to someone
>else's house.

I only havne so i dont know how it works with 2 but i can tell you that i
get more meaningful tome by myself now then i did with isaac in school. I
am relaxed now. we do something together and he plays or works on his own
too. I never thought i would say that. until hs he never even did anything
by himself.

I also make sure i get time with tom and time alone even if it means
sacfificing a family nite sometimes.

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

Lois Hoover

>From: Cyberdoula@...

>
>If you are interested, here is our story:
>
>Wednesday, May 12, I had a Dr. appt. I had to drop Wes at school by 8:15,
>drop Mara off at her baby-sitter's at 8:45 so I could make it to my appt. by
>9:30. Well, Wes complained that he wanted to come with me, I said no and to
>make a long story short his teacher had to physically hold him to keep him
>from running out of the building.

That would have been so hard for me too.

I took Mara to her baby-sitters and
>canceled my appt. I went back and took Wes out for "coffee".

That was a great idea.

I asked him
>what was happening for him and he asked me for a piece of paper and a pen.
I
>obliged and he proceed to draw me pie charts to explain why he hated school
>so much.
>
Your son is so smart! While there is no easy way to let sink in just how
unhappy a situation is for our child, Your son really gave this some
thought to make sure that he got his point across. Not many 9 yo would
have thought of the pie charts. Well at least you won't have to worry
about him being behind in math (sorry couldn't resist)


> Math
>and PE got whole pies because he really likes those subjects. Art got only
>1/8 of a pie.

Did you keep the pie charts? These could be really helpful to you in
realizing just what he would like to do each day. My son also liked PE the
most in school. So we made sure to have lots of physical things spread out
through the week. With art getting so little a section, maybe he just
needs to see real art. My children hated art at school. Each year they
made ceramics. they hated ceramics by the time they left. I have so many
bowls I don't know what to do with them. That's all they made, bowls. But
they saw me crocheting and asked me to show them how, they both did well
and enjoyed it. Cross stitching was harder and after asking, they decided
it wasn't for them. But we found that my youngest loves abstract art, so
we've made sure to expose him to as much as possible. He also enjoys
creating comics and characters. He will come to us and ask us to give him a
crazy name, he will go off and make up a complete personality and a drawing
to go with it. We've got entire sketch pads filled with these. So don't
worry too much about what he doesn't like now, he will refine those ideas
through the years.

>
>I called another elementary school that 2 moms had recommended to see if we
>could come visit. The receptionist said that we could but that it would be
>better to wait until June because things would be more settled then.
>
My first sign that that wouldn't be the place for us. I don't like anyplace
that wants me to wait until things settle down more.

>I had heard about a place called the Home School Connections Center so I
took
>Wesley there.

I wish we'd had something like that here. It would have helped me a great deal


>For two weeks I read and visited Wesley's classroom a different time each
>day. I discovered that my son is basically bored and his teacher spends
most
>of her time doing crowd control over her class of 28.

My children were bored too. Even my add child was more bored than add.

Although I really like
>his teacher's philosophy I believe she is not allowed to teach the way she
>wants. She has too many kids, no support, and mandates from up above to
>improve test scores.
>
True of most schools.

>If you've made it this far, thank you for listening. I am open to anything
>anyone wants to share. My biggest reason for not homeschooling in the past
>was because I was afraid I'd "ruin" my child.

For me I didn't know I could hs my children. Then I listened to
family/friends who reminded me that while I had my degree, I wasn't all
that good at math and wouldn't be able to teach them. I wish I would have
done it sooner, but then I think about the way this happened for us and
realized that while I can't change the past at least I listened to my
children and let them make the decision. Now at least I won't have to worry
about them coming back asking why I never let them go to school.

After seeing and reading about
>what's really going on I figure I can't do any worse than the public schools
>so I'm gonna give it my best shot!

You'll do great. You're already looking at your options but most
importantly you are listening to your son.


Lois

Laura Bush

> -Wesley is very good at math and he likes it a lot. My concern is that he
> has learned to add in an unusual way. Instead of adding from the right
and
> carrying the numbers, he adds from the left. He gets the answers right,
but
> I feel compelled to show him another way. He is learning to multiply now
and
> you must work from the right when you multiply or the answer doesn't come
out
> right. I am open to suggestions and ideas.

Is he having trouble with the multiplication, or are you anticipating? Our
conventions for adding, etc., are just that--conventions. I wouldn't
interfere if he's not having trouble. He sounds like he understands how the
numbers really work, what really happens with carrying, for instance, which
puts him well ahead of an awful lot of people who add conventionally but
don't really understand what they're doing and why it works.

> -Wesley has a 2 year old sister (Very 2!). I have heard that one of the
most
> difficult times to homeschool is with a toddler in the house. What are
your
> experiences and how have you coped with having a toddler in the house?

As long as you're not trying to replicate school at home, it's no harder to
homeschool with a toddler than it is to live with one, which may or may not
be reassuring! I have a 2 yo right now, and was homeschooling when the now-6
yo was 2. He's into stuff, which means we have to be careful where we leave
important or easily wrecked projects. He likes to do what the big kids are
doing, so I try to include him in whatever we're doing, only at his level.
And we take advantage of the fact that dh is around in the evening to corral
him while I'm reading to the older kids, if he's disruptive.

> -How do you find/make time for yourself if you are with the kids all the
> time. I currently find it very challenging finding time just to pay the
> bills let alone make time for myself without taking my daughter to someone
> else's house.
>

I'm one of those people who really craves alone time. I have three kids at
home, ages 10, 6, and 2. Frankly, having the older ones home makes life
easier for me, because a certain amount of the day the littlest is
entertained by the older ones. He also still naps, which is good down time
for me, unless the olders are wanting to do something special with me then.
I just grab the time I can--first thing in the a.m., many days; in the
afternoon during the littlest's nap time; whenever they're off playing
together. I don't spend the whole day intensely involved with my kids. They
spend a lot of every day at play--sometimes together, sometimes separately.
So I've not found getting my time alone to be all that hard. Also, dh is
always willing if I need an evening out or a Saturday morning out or
whatever.

Your daughter won't always be 2--it won't always be this way, promise.

Laura Bush
laura@...
http://www.honeypot-hollow.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/99 01:01:06 PM, Cyberdoula@... writes:

<< -It is my understanding that kids at this age (9) usually need 3-6 months
"de-tox time." Has anyone been through this? What was your experience?
What did you do with your child during this time? How long did it take to
"get your child back"? >>

It takes at least a year sometimes several years. This is what I've read and
experienced. My two oldest children (I have five) were in school until they
were 7 and 10. We, like you, had them in a "good" private school. We were
having problems with the school in various ways and my oldest (10 at the
time) wanted to be homeschooled. We definitely unschool. My children have
been out of school for three years and I think I've had them back for 1 maybe
1 1/2 years.

<< -Wesley has a 2 year old sister (Very 2!). I have heard that one of the
most
difficult times to homeschool is with a toddler in the house. What are your
experiences and how have you coped with having a toddler in the house? >>

I have an 18 month old but she is just part of things. The kids work
together on most things they do.

<< -How do you find/make time for yourself if you are with the kids all the
time? I currently find it very challenging finding time just to pay the
bills let alone make time for myself without taking my daughter to someone
else's house. >>

Boy, can I relate. I do things, like bills and cleaning either early in the
morning or late at night. Sometimes, although not often I will specifically
ask my older two to be in charge so I can run the checkbook or something. I
only do that if it's necessary. My husband and I go out one night a week. I
also go out once a month with a group of friends.

<< She encouraged me to read Dumbing Us Down, The Unschooling Handbook and
"anything by Holt". >>

These are great suggestions. I would also recommend subscribing to Growing
Without Schooling and Home Education Magazine. If there is a support group
in your area, find them. You are doing the right thing. You will not regret
this. Good Luck! Kimme

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/1999 12:33:15 PM, you wrote:

<<I had some real quick decisions to make to get us
approved as it was still the school year and we didn't have the permission
yet, so until I got everything together he was considered truant. >>

In New Mexico you have thirty days from the establishment of a homeschool in
which to file the papers, so in New Mexico you can just say "We're going to
homeschool" and it's legal from then and for 30 days. The school can do
whatever they would have done if you had moved out of state.

People forget that in the U.S. you do not NEED the school's permission, or
the state's. Unless you're on probation or on parole, you can start packing
right now and move to another state before the sun comes up tomorrow. You
don't even *have* to tell the phone company or the utilities guys, if you're
willing to go in arears, or to make your payments and disconnects from afar.

I hear people say "The school wouldn't let me take my child out." WHAT!?
Who are they bluffin'!? They can say "We won't give you credit for this
semester if you take your child out," and that's probably what they mean
if/when they say "can't," but once you start homeschooling you don't NEED
their stinkin' "credits."

Sandra

David Albert

Cyberdoula@... wrote:

> -Wesley is very good at math and he likes it a lot. My concern is
> that he
> has learned to add in an unusual way. Instead of adding from the
> right and
> carrying the numbers, he adds from the left. He gets the answers
> right, but
> I feel compelled to show him another way.

Well, don't! Anyone who is really quick at math that I know (including
myself) figured out very early that adding from the left is much, Much
easier. There are several books out now (I think one is called
"Mathwizards" which specifically recommends this approach. Don't assume
that how he adds has anything necessarily to do with how he multiplies.
What counts (pardon the pun) is what works.

David



> -----------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com