[email protected]

**Again, the question I was asking was whether I was doing enough by just

basically ignoring math and being OK with it to Cait as to whether she

learned it or not, or if as a parent there is a responsibility to find a cool

fun way to expose them to EVERYTHING.**

Sometimes when we ask questions and find out that the answers aren't helpful,
maybe we're asking the wrong questions.

You've settled on *one*thing that might stand in her way and are obsessing
over (NOT ignoring it but worrying over it) while dismissing ideas as "too
involved" that might actually help the child to get an idea of whether being
a doctor is actually truly something she might be interested in in real life
not just in imagination.

**That sounds way more involved than buying software and letting her know
it's

there if she wants it or buying a book and leaving it around.**

It probably is. Our responsibility as unschoolers of providing opportunities
and resources extends to far more than providing software and books. Real
life is more than that. Providing resources also means giving them access to
opportunities and people and places. Buying stuff is easy by comparison.

**Nice clean

cadavers are much preferable to stinky squashed animals and there will be

time for that when and if she gets to medical school or if she still wants to

do that. After all I doubt you get any extra consideration because your mom

brought roadkill home for you.**

It's not about getting consideration for getting into medical school. It's
about having opportunities right now to explore whether or not this is
actually something the child is interested in. For most people, finding out
in medical school that having to deal with real bleeding sick bodies is NOT
what they want to do is WAY TOO LATE. They've already invested so much time
and money and energy in the pursuit of being "a doctor" that they just can't
bring themselves to quit at that point.

It doesn't have to be roadkill, but the point is that "getting ready for med
school" should be more about exploring the idea of being a doctor at this
point, and less about specific requirements. When a child has had opportunity
to really see what a specific career is about and wants to pursue it they
usually have motivation to do whatever they need to do to get there.

On the other hand, often kids settle on saying "doctor" or "lawyer" or
"teacher" when asked about career goals because they know those answers will
be "good enough" to satisfy the questioner and they won't have to answer a
lot more questions about the matter, where "historian" or "gamer" or "writer"
will get them questions and comments about practicality etc. Especially if
they live in families where at least one of their parents believes that the
only possibilities are college on the one hand and living at home forever on
the other hand. :)

Sorry, meant to write more, and softer. Maybe later. :)

Deborah in IL

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/2003 2:04:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dacunefare@... writes:

> Especially if
> they live in families where at least one of their parents believes that the
>
> only possibilities are college on the one hand and living at home forever
> on
> the other hand. :)
>

That's not the case here, there is an entire gamut of possibilities, limited
only by my child's own choices and she's well aware of them.

Cait has spent a day in a clinic with a doctor friend of the family. She's
seen some pretty sad things. This same doctor has been "many" things as a
doctor and is currently an Internist but he's been a missionary doctor in
Africa, a soccer player in England, oh the list goes on and on and he's very
willing to share with Cait his experiences and allow her the freedom of
exploring his world.

There are other equally good resources I am sure. I personally think he
desire stems from her spending a good portion of her toddler years in and out
of the hospital and becoming so familiar with the surroundings and procedures
and medical staff. But I might be wrong, I'm never sure I'm right about what
drives a young mind to anything in particular.

I think those that have posted about just ignoring the math until she decides
she HAS to do it or not are very helpful. They've reinforced to me my
thoughts that it's not bad to NOT have any math at a particular time, there
is always more time, well almost always anyway.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions regarding what is really MY issue and
what to do.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorcha

The NASCO Science catalog has dead animals you can dissect. It also has
owl poop you can look at for evidence of what the owl ate. These things
are like roadkill and poop in your yard, except they come in the mail
and they're labeled "science". Maybe an animal pumped full of
formaldehyde is somehow less "icky" than roadkill. (personally, I don't
dissect things. even in college biology, I protested that it was
against my deeply held spiritual beliefs, and since I wasn't a science
major, they let it go).

Sorcha



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/2003 2:22:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:

> The NASCO Science catalog has dead animals you can dissect. It also has
> owl poop you can look at for evidence of what the owl ate. These things
> are like roadkill and poop in your yard, except they come in the mail
> and they're labeled "science". Maybe an animal pumped full of
> formaldehyde is somehow less "icky" than roadkill. (personally, I don't
> dissect things. even in college biology, I protested that it was
> against my deeply held spiritual beliefs, and since I wasn't a science
> major, they let it go).
>
> Sorcha
>
Thanks for the information, if she decides she wants to do this, at least
I'll have a place to find it. I barely made it through the fetal pig
dissection when I was in college, it was just too cute and soo smelly at the
same time. But I have to say we did learn a lot about organs and organ
systems. Guess it was a good place to begin.

Thanks again for the information.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have a Nice Day!

About roadkills:

THey are not all smashed up. We take roadkill deer home ALL THE TIME and butcher and freeze it to eat later.

It is a fantastic anatomy lesson that I've used for my own kids.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: dacunefare@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 2:02 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: pre med etc


**Again, the question I was asking was whether I was doing enough by just

basically ignoring math and being OK with it to Cait as to whether she

learned it or not, or if as a parent there is a responsibility to find a cool

fun way to expose them to EVERYTHING.**

Sometimes when we ask questions and find out that the answers aren't helpful,
maybe we're asking the wrong questions.

You've settled on *one*thing that might stand in her way and are obsessing
over (NOT ignoring it but worrying over it) while dismissing ideas as "too
involved" that might actually help the child to get an idea of whether being
a doctor is actually truly something she might be interested in in real life
not just in imagination.

**That sounds way more involved than buying software and letting her know
it's

there if she wants it or buying a book and leaving it around.**

It probably is. Our responsibility as unschoolers of providing opportunities
and resources extends to far more than providing software and books. Real
life is more than that. Providing resources also means giving them access to
opportunities and people and places. Buying stuff is easy by comparison.

**Nice clean

cadavers are much preferable to stinky squashed animals and there will be

time for that when and if she gets to medical school or if she still wants to

do that. After all I doubt you get any extra consideration because your mom

brought roadkill home for you.**

It's not about getting consideration for getting into medical school. It's
about having opportunities right now to explore whether or not this is
actually something the child is interested in. For most people, finding out
in medical school that having to deal with real bleeding sick bodies is NOT
what they want to do is WAY TOO LATE. They've already invested so much time
and money and energy in the pursuit of being "a doctor" that they just can't
bring themselves to quit at that point.

It doesn't have to be roadkill, but the point is that "getting ready for med
school" should be more about exploring the idea of being a doctor at this
point, and less about specific requirements. When a child has had opportunity
to really see what a specific career is about and wants to pursue it they
usually have motivation to do whatever they need to do to get there.

On the other hand, often kids settle on saying "doctor" or "lawyer" or
"teacher" when asked about career goals because they know those answers will
be "good enough" to satisfy the questioner and they won't have to answer a
lot more questions about the matter, where "historian" or "gamer" or "writer"
will get them questions and comments about practicality etc. Especially if
they live in families where at least one of their parents believes that the
only possibilities are college on the one hand and living at home forever on
the other hand. :)

Sorry, meant to write more, and softer. Maybe later. :)

Deborah in IL

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

> >
> Thanks for the information, if she decides she wants to do this, at least
> I'll have a place to find it. I barely made it through the fetal pig
> dissection when I was in college, it was just too cute and soo smelly at
the
> same time. But I have to say we did learn a lot about organs and organ
> systems. Guess it was a good place to begin.

There are virtual frog dissections online. I wouldn't be surprised if there
were others. There's also the Visible Human or something like that.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Mary

From: "Sorcha" <sorcha-aisling@...>

<<The NASCO Science catalog has dead animals you can dissect. It also has
owl poop you can look at for evidence of what the owl ate. These things
are like roadkill and poop in your yard, except they come in the mail
and they're labeled "science". Maybe an animal pumped full of
formaldehyde is somehow less "icky" than roadkill. (personally, I don't
dissect things. even in college biology, I protested that it was
against my deeply held spiritual beliefs, and since I wasn't a science
major, they let it go).>>


Personally I think the formaldehyde makes it worse. As far as the smell
goes.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/2003 2:22:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:
> Maybe an animal pumped full of
> formaldehyde is somehow less "icky" than roadkill. (personally, I don't
> dissect things. even in college biology, I protested that it was
> against my deeply held spiritual beliefs, and since I wasn't a science
> major, they let it go).

I find formaldehyde icky---the way it smells and feels. Road kill smells and
feels "earthy". We take the heads off mostly for the skulls.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/03 2:22:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:

> The NASCO Science catalog has dead animals you can dissect

Also, <A HREF="www.carolina.com">www.carolina.com</A>

The web site for Carolina Biological Supply.

We order dead things from here for discection.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

zenmomma *

>>I barely made it through the fetal pig dissection when I was in college,
>>it was just too cute and soo smelly at the same time. But I have to say we
>>did learn a lot about organs and organ systems. Guess it was a good place
>>to begin.>>

Check out this site. It's a virtual frog dissection. VERY cool.

http://www.froguts.com/

Life is good.
~Mary

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."

~ Thich Nhat Hanh



_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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zenmomma *

>>It also has owl poop you can look at for evidence of what the owl ate.>>

Do you mean owl pellets? That's the stuff they regurgitate after they eat.
It's all dry and not disgusting and is full of feathers and bones. The stuff
the owl doesn't digest. I don't do real dissections, but the owl pellets
were cool!

Life is good.
~Mary

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."

~ Thich Nhat Hanh






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[email protected]

about having opportunities right now to explore whether or not this is
actually something the child is interested in.

This is kind of a tangent here, but did anyone else see the Bill Moyer's
series on Chinese Americans? One of the women he interviewed extensively got
into Berkeley and was planning on being a doctor. She described the college
interviewer asking why being a doctor would make her happy. She thought it
was the most ridiculous question anyone could have asked. What did her
interests, her happiness have to do with it? She was always going to be a
doctor.

She eventually rebelled and found her calling as a writer. Causing great
stress in her family, but being true to herself. It's much easier to be true
all along, I think.

I just thought it was an interesting comment on the cult of a pre-med
discipline we faced growing up and children are still facing today. Also, it
was interesting to see how strongly cultures can push their children to
succeed to a standard the children might not own.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/03 8:28:51 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< Do you mean owl pellets? That's the stuff they regurgitate after they eat.
It's all dry and not disgusting and is full of feathers and bones. The stuff
the owl doesn't digest. I don't do real dissections, but the owl pellets
were cool! >>

It's like a hairball, kind of.

We've looked in hairballs the cats hoik up. The cats always seem to be dying
if you catch them hoiking a hairball. We've found a grasshopper and a cock
roach. They're gross.

Owl pellets are not so fresh and so seem more sanitary.

Sandra

Pamela Sorooshian

On Tuesday, April 8, 2003, at 08:56 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:

> Owl pellets are not so fresh and so seem more sanitary.
>
Somebody told me once that the ones you buy have actually been
sanitized in some way. Is that true?

-pamS

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/2003 12:06:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

> Somebody told me once that the ones you buy have actually been
> sanitized in some way. Is that true?

Would it make you feel better? <G>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Tuesday, April 8, 2003, at 09:07 AM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:

>> Somebody told me once that the ones you buy have actually been
>> sanitized in some way. Is that true?
>
> Would it make you feel better? <G>

Well - I'd still wash my hands after, but .... and SANDRA - hair balls?

Okay - we once happened upon a pile of bear poop - we were picking
berries. Aside from the fact that it was fresh and therefore was proof
that there was an actual bear IN the area, it was interesting to poke
through it. WITH A STICK, of course! Went home and dug out that sweet
little kids book about the human mom and her child picking berries and
the bear mom and her cub picking berries and the child and the cub
accidentally switch moms - to everyone's surprise. Blueberry Hill?
Something like that. An old old book - that all my kids love.

-pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/2003 10:48:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ejcrewe@... writes:

> I just thought it was an interesting comment on the cult of a pre-med
> discipline we faced growing up and children are still facing today. Also,
> it
> was interesting to see how strongly cultures can push their children to
> succeed to a standard the children might not own.
>

Frankly if you talk to any practicing doctor today there is little reason to
encourage your child to even THINK about being a doctor. It's a constant
game with insurance companies and trying to get paid, lots and LOTS of hours,
huge students loans, unless of course you get scholarships.

If you as a parent were to examine the idea of what to "encourage" your child
to be to earn the most money and have the most prestige it wouldn't be to
become a doctor for sure!

It would BE... A PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE!!!! But then of course that is
considering they have any talent in that area, but as for anything else, I
guess you would have to have some kind aptitude for whatever you do.

I have an older son who is an apprentice to a master carpenter. He's doing
what he loves. He doesn't make much money, is often cold and wet while
working or sunburned beyond belief but it makes him happy and isn't that all
that matters? Well mostly in this world anyway.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa M. C. Bentley

> Blueberry Hill?
> Something like that. An old old book - that all my kids love.

"Blueberries for Sal" by Robert McCloskey
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/014050169X/qid=1049824018/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2114173-6285426?v=glance&s=books

Very, very sweet book. We really like "One Morning in Maine" by the
same author/illustrator. You get to see Sal a few years older losing
her first tooth (she now has a baby sister, too). Very sweet.

-Lisa in AZ

Tia Leschke

>
> Okay - we once happened upon a pile of bear poop - we were picking
> berries. Aside from the fact that it was fresh and therefore was proof
> that there was an actual bear IN the area, it was interesting to poke
> through it. WITH A STICK, of course! Went home and dug out that sweet
> little kids book about the human mom and her child picking berries and
> the bear mom and her cub picking berries and the child and the cub
> accidentally switch moms - to everyone's surprise. Blueberry Hill?
> Something like that. An old old book - that all my kids love.

Kaplink, Kaplank, Kaplunk
Blueberries for Sal by Robert McClosky (sp?), once my granddaughter's all
time favourite book. And she even used to look just like Sal.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Fetteroll

on 4/8/03 1:54 PM, Lisa M. C. Bentley at cottrellbentley@... wrote:

> We really like "One Morning in Maine" by the
> same author/illustrator. You get to see Sal a few years older losing
> her first tooth (she now has a baby sister, too). Very sweet.

And it's a really real place she visits, North Brookfield. We had stayed at
a bed and breakfast for many years right across the street from the gas
station and store before I realized it. (He took some liberties with the
illustrations. The store and gas station aren't right across from the water.
There are houses between them and the water and the water is about 100 yards
from the road.)

The town is pretty much the same. The gas station looks *exactly* the same
and the store is still a store but sort of a upscape country store for the
yachters that anchor in the harbor during the summer.

Joyce

Fetteroll

on 4/8/03 6:14 PM, Fetteroll at fetteroll@... wrote:

> North Brookfield

Oops. South Brookville!

Joyce

Dave and Shannon

My son Connor is 6 and he informs me today that he NEEDS to learn math.
Fine. All day he has been telling me what X + X is etc. Then he asks if I
can make some math homework for him to learn math. I told him he doesn't
need "homework" to learn math. If he keeps doing what he's doing, he'll
learn. Now, Connor has never been to school a day in his life and never
wanted to go for that matter. :o) The only "school" he's ever seen is on
tv. So my question is, what can I tell him to make him realize that
"homework" is not necessary?

Shannon Buckley
Mom to Connor 3-15-97, Carsten born at home 4-27-99/5-19-00 and Quinn born
at home 8-08-02



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Tuesday, April 8, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Dave and Shannon wrote:

> If he keeps doing what he's doing, he'll
> learn. Now, Connor has never been to school a day in his life and
> never
> wanted to go for that matter. :o) The only "school" he's ever seen
> is on
> tv. So my question is, what can I tell him to make him realize that
> "homework" is not necessary?

He just wants you do give him a way to practice - so do it.

One fun way is to hold up both hands, with, let's say, 3 finders up,
the rest down. Then put your hands behind your back and bring them back
out with, say, 7 fingers up. Have him say how many you now have up and
how many MORE you have up than you did before (7 up and 4 more). Or if
he gets good at that, do it in reverse - hold up 7 fingers, then put
your hands behind your back and bring them back out with only 3 held
up. He should say how many disappeared.

BUT - he might be wanting paper and pencil practice - so either write
him up some, or find an internet site that creates practice pages that
he can type the answers right in online or whatever.

I think he pushed some of your buttons, calling it homework, but
remember it doesn't mean anything to him other than he wants you to
give him some practice pages.

Nothing wrong with practice. If he wanted to practice hitting a
baseball, you'd help him with that, right? Have the same attitude. Have
fun with it.


-pam

Dave and Shannon

Will Do!

Shannon Buckley
Mom to Connor 3-15-97, Carsten born at home 4-27-99/5-19-00 and Quinn born
at home 8-08-02

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela



Nothing wrong with practice. If he wanted to practice hitting a
baseball, you'd help him with that, right? Have the same attitude. Have
fun with it.


-pam




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dave and Shannon

Funny! I thought he had forgotten about it. But he just came in and asked
for his math homework. So I quickly printed out a couple of worksheets. He
wanted three sheets. So we'll see what happens from here. Thanks for all
the input.

Shannon Buckley
Mom to Connor 3-15-97, Carsten born at home 4-27-99/5-19-00 and Quinn born
at home 8-08-02

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Sorooshian [mailto:pamsoroosh@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 5:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Question


On Tuesday, April 8, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Dave and Shannon wrote:

> If he keeps doing what he's doing, he'll
> learn. Now, Connor has never been to school a day in his life and
> never
> wanted to go for that matter. :o) The only "school" he's ever seen
> is on
> tv. So my question is, what can I tell him to make him realize that
> "homework" is not necessary?

He just wants you do give him a way to practice - so do it.

One fun way is to hold up both hands, with, let's say, 3 finders up,
the rest down. Then put your hands behind your back and bring them back
out with, say, 7 fingers up. Have him say how many you now have up and
how many MORE you have up than you did before (7 up and 4 more). Or if
he gets good at that, do it in reverse - hold up 7 fingers, then put
your hands behind your back and bring them back out with only 3 held
up. He should say how many disappeared.

BUT - he might be wanting paper and pencil practice - so either write
him up some, or find an internet site that creates practice pages that
he can type the answers right in online or whatever.

I think he pushed some of your buttons, calling it homework, but
remember it doesn't mean anything to him other than he wants you to
give him some practice pages.

Nothing wrong with practice. If he wanted to practice hitting a
baseball, you'd help him with that, right? Have the same attitude. Have
fun with it.


-pam




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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081972:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?camp=556&l
ineid=3083889?=egroupweb&pos=HM>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]