Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] new member intro my last thoughts on the matter
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/7/2003 1:12:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:
parent on this list, nor are they asking to be treated with kids gloves.
BUT when someone makes an introduction telling us about her children, where
they have come from educationally, where they are now in their learning style
and where they hope to be sooner than later that is not looking for
validation as a parent. It is what is requested in an introduction.
It is done not for validation but to introduce one's self to a list that is
posting and they are reading, so as to avoid that "peeking tom" syndrome of
sorts.
What started this entire thread was a new person stating that they expected
criticism because they KNEW they weren't doing everything right yet and then
someone else added they don't feel this is a safe place to ask questions that
are VALID to them.
Maybe some of the exact same advice should to like well, if you don't like
the fact that a new family isn't completely doing the unschooling your way,
be quiet and READ, wait for them to post, WAIT for them to ASK a question,
get to know what they NEED from you as a part of the group, THEN offer your
advice on unschooling.
An introduction is hardly the place for someone to be shot down with "nope
you are NOT unschooling".
I guess the whole thing started because others must have felt it was a harsh
response and I totally get the idea we are under NO obligation to be polite,
molly coddle or hand hold with anyone. But to some who haven't been around
it does seem very harsh to someone just starting out on the journey to just
flat out tell them they aren't doing it right, in fact they aren't "doing it"
at all.
That's sorta like shooting a dream I guess. We all aspire to be good parents
and do the absolute best for our child, I think that is the bottom line.
Now here's my point we are getting no where with this thread. So we know
that some people can "appear" to be rough, short and hateful, doesn't mean
they really are.
Some people can appear to be unschooling, doesn't really mean they are.
Either we get thick skins and when someone appears to criticize from either
point of view we ignore it, delete it or walk away or we just accept that is
how some people are and we get on with the process of being the best
unschooling family we can possibly be.
Nothing about this thread is going to change anything about anyone. I've
questioned and thought and pondered trying to come up with the exact dynamics
that will make this group work for me, and me work for this group, because
after all we do have to fit in our environment, even one we've entered
willingly. I have no answers. It's the same as it was last week, it's the
same as it as last month, it's the same as it will be next week and next
month and next year.
The only thing I've figured out is forget it, don't talk about it, ask a
specific question take the answer or don't. Don't expect it the answer to
sound kind and loving because no one is owed kindness or loving or maybe you
are just "reading" the words too hatefully your own self.
Like it or leave it, this is it. There are mothers here who know the deal,
they've lived it, they've proved it works their way and there is only one
true way to unschool and they can show you that way but only if you are
willing to do what they say and forget all your preconceived notions about
what unschooling might mean to you. It doesn't work any other way.
There are many brilliant ideas, many things I've never even thought of, many
things I have that didn't have a name for now do.
The list is what it is and I accept it for what it is, I was never trying to
"change" anything, just figure out how to adapt and adjust and I think I've
learned the way.
Thanks again for all the useful info and I think this thread was helpful too.
It helped explore the dynamics and gave a glimpse into human nature and how
it works.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummy124@... writes:
> That's the problem here. I haven't seen where anyone here has not beenFirst, I don't think anyone is looking for their validation as a loving
> treated with consideration and respect. What I've seen as problems with a
> few of you is that you want to be validated as loving parents and treated
> with kids gloves until you are all "ready to unschool." It's been explained
> here that there really isn't the time or need of the majority for that kind
> of list.
>
parent on this list, nor are they asking to be treated with kids gloves.
BUT when someone makes an introduction telling us about her children, where
they have come from educationally, where they are now in their learning style
and where they hope to be sooner than later that is not looking for
validation as a parent. It is what is requested in an introduction.
It is done not for validation but to introduce one's self to a list that is
posting and they are reading, so as to avoid that "peeking tom" syndrome of
sorts.
What started this entire thread was a new person stating that they expected
criticism because they KNEW they weren't doing everything right yet and then
someone else added they don't feel this is a safe place to ask questions that
are VALID to them.
Maybe some of the exact same advice should to like well, if you don't like
the fact that a new family isn't completely doing the unschooling your way,
be quiet and READ, wait for them to post, WAIT for them to ASK a question,
get to know what they NEED from you as a part of the group, THEN offer your
advice on unschooling.
An introduction is hardly the place for someone to be shot down with "nope
you are NOT unschooling".
I guess the whole thing started because others must have felt it was a harsh
response and I totally get the idea we are under NO obligation to be polite,
molly coddle or hand hold with anyone. But to some who haven't been around
it does seem very harsh to someone just starting out on the journey to just
flat out tell them they aren't doing it right, in fact they aren't "doing it"
at all.
That's sorta like shooting a dream I guess. We all aspire to be good parents
and do the absolute best for our child, I think that is the bottom line.
Now here's my point we are getting no where with this thread. So we know
that some people can "appear" to be rough, short and hateful, doesn't mean
they really are.
Some people can appear to be unschooling, doesn't really mean they are.
Either we get thick skins and when someone appears to criticize from either
point of view we ignore it, delete it or walk away or we just accept that is
how some people are and we get on with the process of being the best
unschooling family we can possibly be.
Nothing about this thread is going to change anything about anyone. I've
questioned and thought and pondered trying to come up with the exact dynamics
that will make this group work for me, and me work for this group, because
after all we do have to fit in our environment, even one we've entered
willingly. I have no answers. It's the same as it was last week, it's the
same as it as last month, it's the same as it will be next week and next
month and next year.
The only thing I've figured out is forget it, don't talk about it, ask a
specific question take the answer or don't. Don't expect it the answer to
sound kind and loving because no one is owed kindness or loving or maybe you
are just "reading" the words too hatefully your own self.
Like it or leave it, this is it. There are mothers here who know the deal,
they've lived it, they've proved it works their way and there is only one
true way to unschool and they can show you that way but only if you are
willing to do what they say and forget all your preconceived notions about
what unschooling might mean to you. It doesn't work any other way.
There are many brilliant ideas, many things I've never even thought of, many
things I have that didn't have a name for now do.
The list is what it is and I accept it for what it is, I was never trying to
"change" anything, just figure out how to adapt and adjust and I think I've
learned the way.
Thanks again for all the useful info and I think this thread was helpful too.
It helped explore the dynamics and gave a glimpse into human nature and how
it works.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/7/2003 8:22:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
the fact IS that it may have been JUST what someone else needed to hear.
THAT's why this list works. Maybe not for you and maybe not for the next guy,
but it might have reached a dozen or so folks that will come around in a week
or month---or tomorrow! And the light bulb is now LIT!
Another thing it does is to help folks who "get" unschooling, but who haven't
quite been able to put it into words. This (although tiresome for those that
do it 7-8 times a year!) can be what helps those people be able to articulate
unschooling to friends and relatives---and husbands! <G>
As we've all learned with unschooling, often what we learn isn't what we
expected to learn! <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
> Nothing about this thread is going to change anything about anyone. I'veThat's probably NOT true. It might not make any difference in YOUR world, but
> questioned and thought and pondered trying to come up with the exact
> dynamics
> that will make this group work for me, and me work for this group, because
> after all we do have to fit in our environment, even one we've entered
> willingly. I have no answers. It's the same as it was last week, it's the
> same as it as last month, it's the same as it will be next week and next
> month and next year.
the fact IS that it may have been JUST what someone else needed to hear.
THAT's why this list works. Maybe not for you and maybe not for the next guy,
but it might have reached a dozen or so folks that will come around in a week
or month---or tomorrow! And the light bulb is now LIT!
Another thing it does is to help folks who "get" unschooling, but who haven't
quite been able to put it into words. This (although tiresome for those that
do it 7-8 times a year!) can be what helps those people be able to articulate
unschooling to friends and relatives---and husbands! <G>
As we've all learned with unschooling, often what we learn isn't what we
expected to learn! <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/7/03 6:22:00 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< It is what is requested in an introduction. >>
I don't think a list with 1100 people even needs introductions.
On some lists I've been on, people have gotten huffy if they didn't get a
dozen "Welcome to the list!" messages, and when they leave they want to stay
on long enough for people to say nice things.
This isn't that kind of a list.
Yes, sure, people can announce their comings and goings, but it's not a
teaparty. It's a huge impersonal sort of list.
If you go hear Billy Graham (bad example, but I'll leave it) you don't say
"Hi!" (from row 203) "I'm here!" and wait for everyone to say "Hi!"
This is a list where lurking is fine. Nobody will go down the member list
and draw people out saying, "Hi, and who are YOU? Never saw an introduction
from you."
<<It is done not for validation but to introduce one's self to a list that is
posting and they are reading, so as to avoid that "peeking tom" syndrome of
sorts.>>
Not applicable to a list this large. I assume five or ten people come and go
each day, and if they all said hi and bye and got responses that would be ALL
the list was about.
-=-Maybe some of the exact same advice should to like well, if you don't like
the fact that a new family isn't completely doing the unschooling your way,
be quiet and READ, wait for them to post, WAIT for them to ASK a question,
get to know what they NEED from you as a part of the group, THEN offer your
advice on unschooling.-=-
-=Maybe some of the exact same advice should to like well,-=-
I have advice. Proofread.
Take your time and think and proofread if you feel that this list just can't
survive without your continuing input.
And my other advice is to get over the false idea that you know more about
how this list needs to be than those who have been involved for years.
-=-Now here's my point we are getting no where with this thread. -=-
Joyce, could you please consider putting rubyprincess on moderated status?
Please don't let any more of these time-wasting posts through for a while.
-=-Nothing about this thread is going to change anything about anyone. -=-
TOO BAD.
-=-I've
questioned and thought and pondered trying to come up with the exact dynamics
that will make this group work for me-=-
This group is not about you.
It's about unschooling.
If an unschooling group can't work for you, scoot.
-=-The only thing I've figured out is forget it, don't talk about it, ask a
specific question take the answer or don't. -=-
You obviously haven't learned that at all.
-=The list is what it is and I accept it for what it is, I was never trying
to
"change" anything-=-
That was one inch from your just having written "-=-I've
questioned and thought and pondered trying to come up with the exact dynamics
that will make this group work for me-=-"
Joyce, make it stop.
Sandra
<< It is what is requested in an introduction. >>
I don't think a list with 1100 people even needs introductions.
On some lists I've been on, people have gotten huffy if they didn't get a
dozen "Welcome to the list!" messages, and when they leave they want to stay
on long enough for people to say nice things.
This isn't that kind of a list.
Yes, sure, people can announce their comings and goings, but it's not a
teaparty. It's a huge impersonal sort of list.
If you go hear Billy Graham (bad example, but I'll leave it) you don't say
"Hi!" (from row 203) "I'm here!" and wait for everyone to say "Hi!"
This is a list where lurking is fine. Nobody will go down the member list
and draw people out saying, "Hi, and who are YOU? Never saw an introduction
from you."
<<It is done not for validation but to introduce one's self to a list that is
posting and they are reading, so as to avoid that "peeking tom" syndrome of
sorts.>>
Not applicable to a list this large. I assume five or ten people come and go
each day, and if they all said hi and bye and got responses that would be ALL
the list was about.
-=-Maybe some of the exact same advice should to like well, if you don't like
the fact that a new family isn't completely doing the unschooling your way,
be quiet and READ, wait for them to post, WAIT for them to ASK a question,
get to know what they NEED from you as a part of the group, THEN offer your
advice on unschooling.-=-
-=Maybe some of the exact same advice should to like well,-=-
I have advice. Proofread.
Take your time and think and proofread if you feel that this list just can't
survive without your continuing input.
And my other advice is to get over the false idea that you know more about
how this list needs to be than those who have been involved for years.
-=-Now here's my point we are getting no where with this thread. -=-
Joyce, could you please consider putting rubyprincess on moderated status?
Please don't let any more of these time-wasting posts through for a while.
-=-Nothing about this thread is going to change anything about anyone. -=-
TOO BAD.
-=-I've
questioned and thought and pondered trying to come up with the exact dynamics
that will make this group work for me-=-
This group is not about you.
It's about unschooling.
If an unschooling group can't work for you, scoot.
-=-The only thing I've figured out is forget it, don't talk about it, ask a
specific question take the answer or don't. -=-
You obviously haven't learned that at all.
-=The list is what it is and I accept it for what it is, I was never trying
to
"change" anything-=-
That was one inch from your just having written "-=-I've
questioned and thought and pondered trying to come up with the exact dynamics
that will make this group work for me-=-"
Joyce, make it stop.
Sandra