about time, and involvement, and older kids
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 3:00:26 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< I think people should spend at least as much time with their kids as the
time
the kids would have been in school.<<<
Sandra,
I have a question about this. Maybe I have become an island, not sure. But
I'm wondering how I would fill 6 hours/day?? >>
What I mostly mean is that I hate it when people think they can just furnish
their kids a house and some books and then ignore them while they/kids
"unschool."
If parents think it will take less effort and involvement than
school-at-home, then it makes me want to tell them to put their kids back in
school.
Your description of your day sounds plenty involved!
<<I mean, my kids like to be on the computer chatting, or playing games...for
hours. But that doesn't include me, other than I ask them how its going and
such.
<<And they are involved in outside activities, but again, that doesn't
necessarily include me other than I support them and cheer for them and drive
them and pay for it.
<<And they like to watch movies, and I watch with them.>>
That's a lot. You're there, and they're doing lots of things with you
involved.
<<Is this what you mean when you say the above? Our lives sound very
"passively" involved though.>>
Maybe passive in that you didn't direct their activities yourself, but not
"uninvolved" as some parents seem to think unschooling parents can be.
The longer people go the deeper the parental involvement/knowledge/connection
becomes even when the kids aren't even physically present. It's hard to
describe. Maybe some of us should try!
I'll think about it and come back to this.
Because when I write "six hours" I really think inside "24 hours" but that
scares the peeweedles out of some newer unschoolers who maybe used to spend
four hours "doing school" at the table. (Or on the couch if they were really
liberal. <g>)
Sandra
We do talk a lot and share lots of information together too.
I know we do get in ruts sometimes though and I want to perk things up some
more here.
<< I think people should spend at least as much time with their kids as the
time
the kids would have been in school.<<<
Sandra,
I have a question about this. Maybe I have become an island, not sure. But
I'm wondering how I would fill 6 hours/day?? >>
What I mostly mean is that I hate it when people think they can just furnish
their kids a house and some books and then ignore them while they/kids
"unschool."
If parents think it will take less effort and involvement than
school-at-home, then it makes me want to tell them to put their kids back in
school.
Your description of your day sounds plenty involved!
<<I mean, my kids like to be on the computer chatting, or playing games...for
hours. But that doesn't include me, other than I ask them how its going and
such.
<<And they are involved in outside activities, but again, that doesn't
necessarily include me other than I support them and cheer for them and drive
them and pay for it.
<<And they like to watch movies, and I watch with them.>>
That's a lot. You're there, and they're doing lots of things with you
involved.
<<Is this what you mean when you say the above? Our lives sound very
"passively" involved though.>>
Maybe passive in that you didn't direct their activities yourself, but not
"uninvolved" as some parents seem to think unschooling parents can be.
The longer people go the deeper the parental involvement/knowledge/connection
becomes even when the kids aren't even physically present. It's hard to
describe. Maybe some of us should try!
I'll think about it and come back to this.
Because when I write "six hours" I really think inside "24 hours" but that
scares the peeweedles out of some newer unschoolers who maybe used to spend
four hours "doing school" at the table. (Or on the couch if they were really
liberal. <g>)
Sandra
We do talk a lot and share lots of information together too.
I know we do get in ruts sometimes though and I want to perk things up some
more here.
[email protected]
I have a question about this. Maybe I have become an island, not sure. But
I'm wondering how I would fill 6 hours/day?? >>
I also think it isn't 6 hours of hands on interaction with your child doing
things with them. It is more of time available. Where you are physically
near and mentally open to your child. You would stop what you are doing and
answer questions or take your child to the library if that is what they
needed.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm wondering how I would fill 6 hours/day?? >>
I also think it isn't 6 hours of hands on interaction with your child doing
things with them. It is more of time available. Where you are physically
near and mentally open to your child. You would stop what you are doing and
answer questions or take your child to the library if that is what they
needed.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
The longer people go the deeper the parental involvement/knowledge/connection
becomes even when the kids aren't even physically present. It's hard to
describe. Maybe some of us should try!
I'll think about it and come back to this.
Because when I write "six hours" I really think inside "24 hours" but that
scares the peeweedles out of some newer unschoolers who maybe used to spend
four hours "doing school" at the table. (Or on the couch if they were really
liberal. <g>)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I meant to respond to this and I deleted it by accident.
Thanks for the clarification on this. It makes much more sense I think. I hope you do come back to it. I'd like to hear more about what you have to think about this (and anyone else too).
I just can't help feeling like I'm not doing "enough". Do you ever feel like you're slacking off, even if your kids seem happy? Or maybe I'm just feeling guilty for not "teaching". (One of my avid joys is teaching others <grin>).
For example, my kids sometimes say that they are bored and thats why they are on the computer so much. Yet, when there ARE friends here, they are STILL on the computer playing the same games. I have to suggest to them that they have visitors and perhaps they should either share the game or go do something else.
So, I take it from that that they are not *really* bored or that boredom is not the reason they are playing those games. But what they say and what they do send confusing messages to me.
I'm an avid reader. I love to read. I explore most of my own interests through reading, online, in books, or on TV. I'm online a lot, or I used to be before 3 kids took it over <grin>. I used to feel guilty about enjoying tv movies, and online chat, but not anymore. I LOVE a good story.
The computer is my doorway to the whole wide world and I find it so exciting. When my kids are online chatting and calling friends from other states, etc...sometimes I worry that my example is hurting them. Are they spending *too* much time online...etc.
Somehow I feel like I'm not broadening their horizons enough. I'm very interested in the SCA, but I can't seem to get started...its a lot of information at once, or it seems like it is. (I think I need to contact the right person..I forget who it is but I'll double check). Maybe if I had one person who could walk me through the process....(sigh). I know my kids would probably love the SCA, at least my girls would. We have a Renaissance Fair here every year...and we've never been there. I hope to get there this year. They recently went to see the play Camelot with my mother.
And we are very involved in Girl Scouts which has helped a lot for my girls, but that doesn't help my son. He's into wiring, technical theater etc...I'm just not quite sure how to make the contacts and then the days get away from me and it seems like it slips away. Major guilt trip on mom here. Does that happen to you guys?
It seems like a tough balance to introduce new things and also to step back and wait for what they might show an interest in. Its also tought to "get on it" in the midst of an already busy life. How do you do it and maintain that healthy balance?
Kristen
becomes even when the kids aren't even physically present. It's hard to
describe. Maybe some of us should try!
I'll think about it and come back to this.
Because when I write "six hours" I really think inside "24 hours" but that
scares the peeweedles out of some newer unschoolers who maybe used to spend
four hours "doing school" at the table. (Or on the couch if they were really
liberal. <g>)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I meant to respond to this and I deleted it by accident.
Thanks for the clarification on this. It makes much more sense I think. I hope you do come back to it. I'd like to hear more about what you have to think about this (and anyone else too).
I just can't help feeling like I'm not doing "enough". Do you ever feel like you're slacking off, even if your kids seem happy? Or maybe I'm just feeling guilty for not "teaching". (One of my avid joys is teaching others <grin>).
For example, my kids sometimes say that they are bored and thats why they are on the computer so much. Yet, when there ARE friends here, they are STILL on the computer playing the same games. I have to suggest to them that they have visitors and perhaps they should either share the game or go do something else.
So, I take it from that that they are not *really* bored or that boredom is not the reason they are playing those games. But what they say and what they do send confusing messages to me.
I'm an avid reader. I love to read. I explore most of my own interests through reading, online, in books, or on TV. I'm online a lot, or I used to be before 3 kids took it over <grin>. I used to feel guilty about enjoying tv movies, and online chat, but not anymore. I LOVE a good story.
The computer is my doorway to the whole wide world and I find it so exciting. When my kids are online chatting and calling friends from other states, etc...sometimes I worry that my example is hurting them. Are they spending *too* much time online...etc.
Somehow I feel like I'm not broadening their horizons enough. I'm very interested in the SCA, but I can't seem to get started...its a lot of information at once, or it seems like it is. (I think I need to contact the right person..I forget who it is but I'll double check). Maybe if I had one person who could walk me through the process....(sigh). I know my kids would probably love the SCA, at least my girls would. We have a Renaissance Fair here every year...and we've never been there. I hope to get there this year. They recently went to see the play Camelot with my mother.
And we are very involved in Girl Scouts which has helped a lot for my girls, but that doesn't help my son. He's into wiring, technical theater etc...I'm just not quite sure how to make the contacts and then the days get away from me and it seems like it slips away. Major guilt trip on mom here. Does that happen to you guys?
It seems like a tough balance to introduce new things and also to step back and wait for what they might show an interest in. Its also tought to "get on it" in the midst of an already busy life. How do you do it and maintain that healthy balance?
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 5:28 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] about time, and involvement, and older kids
In a message dated 4/6/03 3:00:26 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< I think people should spend at least as much time with their kids as the
time
the kids would have been in school.<<<
Sandra,
I have a question about this. Maybe I have become an island, not sure. But
I'm wondering how I would fill 6 hours/day?? >>
What I mostly mean is that I hate it when people think they can just furnish
their kids a house and some books and then ignore them while they/kids
"unschool."
If parents think it will take less effort and involvement than
school-at-home, then it makes me want to tell them to put their kids back in
school.
Your description of your day sounds plenty involved!
<<I mean, my kids like to be on the computer chatting, or playing games...for
hours. But that doesn't include me, other than I ask them how its going and
such.
<<And they are involved in outside activities, but again, that doesn't
necessarily include me other than I support them and cheer for them and drive
them and pay for it.
<<And they like to watch movies, and I watch with them.>>
That's a lot. You're there, and they're doing lots of things with you
involved.
<<Is this what you mean when you say the above? Our lives sound very
"passively" involved though.>>
Maybe passive in that you didn't direct their activities yourself, but not
"uninvolved" as some parents seem to think unschooling parents can be.
The longer people go the deeper the parental involvement/knowledge/connection
becomes even when the kids aren't even physically present. It's hard to
describe. Maybe some of us should try!
I'll think about it and come back to this.
Because when I write "six hours" I really think inside "24 hours" but that
scares the peeweedles out of some newer unschoolers who maybe used to spend
four hours "doing school" at the table. (Or on the couch if they were really
liberal. <g>)
Sandra
We do talk a lot and share lots of information together too.
I know we do get in ruts sometimes though and I want to perk things up some
more here.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>I hope you do come back to it. I'd like to hear more about what you have to
> Thanks for the clarification on this. It makes much more sense I think.
think about this (and anyone else too).
>Me too.
> I just can't help feeling like I'm not doing "enough". Do you ever feellike you're slacking off, even if your kids seem happy? Or maybe I'm just
feeling guilty for not "teaching". (One of my avid joys is teaching others
<grin>).
My problem is a little different. I was way too hands-off when Lars was
younger. I thought you just set up a house with interesting stuff and the
kid eventually picked it up. Trouble is, I set up the house to be the
perfect unschooling house . . . for me. Lars never picked up any of those
books I left around. That's not how he learns. (I had still thought that
he would learn from books once he learned to read . . .not.)
So now it's much harder to "insert" myself back into his life. Being 15,
he's not all that keen for me to do that. <g>
>is not the reason they are playing those games. But what they say and what
>
> So, I take it from that that they are not *really* bored or that boredom
they do send confusing messages to me.
This is one that's familiar to me. Lars talks about wanting to do more
academic stuff, but I realize now that's his friends and society talking,
not him. He had said he wanted to go for a diploma through the program he's
registered with. I agreed to help him even though I don't think he needs
(or really wants) a diploma. Just the other day he finally admitted that
he'd like a diploma but doesn't want to sit down and do the work involved.
So now we're concentrating more on the kinds of things he might like to do
as he gets older and what the minimum requirements might be. For instance,
a lot of vocational programs at the community college here only have
requirements for certain courses, like a certain math level. I'm sure we
can find a way to document what he knows in those areas without his actually
taking a course in them. So we're making some progress.
>back and wait for what they might show an interest in. Its also tought to
> It seems like a tough balance to introduce new things and also to step
"get on it" in the midst of an already busy life. How do you do it and
maintain that healthy balance?
One of the things I have a hard time with is getting used to lots of time to
do my thing when he doesn't want my involvement, then making the switch to
helping him when I'm in the middle of something of my own. When he wants to
do something, he wants to do it now. I've put him off till later enough
times to know that he'll just lose interest in whatever it was by the time I
get around to it. So I have been working on getting around to it sooner.
It's not an easy balance for me. I do best at getting my own stuff
(writing, housework, etc.) done when it's part of a routine. When my
routine gets interrupted, it's hard for me to get back to it. But that's my
stuff.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Tia Leschke
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
something like 23 years. But *this* August we're almost certainly going
another direction. Assuming Lars makes the final cut, he'll be playing on
the Team BC fastball team at the Western Canada Summer Games in Manitoba
this August.
all that much longer so much as things I've read on this list that make me
want to give more value to the interruptions. But there *is* that.
Tia
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
> Are you crazy enough to want to drive all the way south from BC to theI *wish*! I'd love to just get down to California. I haven't been down in
> Sacramento conference in August? With Lars? (Or maybe the nearly broke
> airlines will offer dirt cheap fares?)
something like 23 years. But *this* August we're almost certainly going
another direction. Assuming Lars makes the final cut, he'll be playing on
the Team BC fastball team at the Western Canada Summer Games in Manitoba
this August.
>And your impression is right. Kinesthetic and oral, in that order.
> The keynote speaker is going to be Dr. Thomas Armstrong, whose "thing"
> is multiple intelligences. I also hear that the teen program is
> fabulous. And think about how much you can talk in an incredibly long
> and tiring car ride!
>
> (This isn't a total non-sequitur. I have the impression that Lars'
> learning style is mostly kinesthetic.)
>Actually, it wasn't sadness that he's pulling away and not going to be here
> Betsy
>
> **One of the things I have a hard time with is getting used to lots of
> time to do my thing when he doesn't want my involvement, then making the
> switch to helping him when I'm in the middle of something of my own.
> When he wants to do something, he wants to do it now. I've put him off
> till later enough times to know that he'll just lose interest in
> whatever it was by the time I get around to it.**
>
> Me, too! I guess if you start to feel sad that he's pulling away and
> not spending enough time with you then you give greater and greater
> value to the "interruptions".
all that much longer so much as things I've read on this list that make me
want to give more value to the interruptions. But there *is* that.
Tia
Betsy
**This is one that's familiar to me. Lars talks about wanting to do more
academic stuff, but I realize now that's his friends and society talking,
not him.**
Hi, Tia --
Are you crazy enough to want to drive all the way south from BC to the
Sacramento conference in August? With Lars? (Or maybe the nearly broke
airlines will offer dirt cheap fares?)
The keynote speaker is going to be Dr. Thomas Armstrong, whose "thing"
is multiple intelligences. I also hear that the teen program is
fabulous. And think about how much you can talk in an incredibly long
and tiring car ride!
(This isn't a total non-sequitur. I have the impression that Lars'
learning style is mostly kinesthetic.)
Betsy
**One of the things I have a hard time with is getting used to lots of
time to do my thing when he doesn't want my involvement, then making the
switch to helping him when I'm in the middle of something of my own.
When he wants to do something, he wants to do it now. I've put him off
till later enough times to know that he'll just lose interest in
whatever it was by the time I get around to it.**
Me, too! I guess if you start to feel sad that he's pulling away and
not spending enough time with you then you give greater and greater
value to the "interruptions".
academic stuff, but I realize now that's his friends and society talking,
not him.**
Hi, Tia --
Are you crazy enough to want to drive all the way south from BC to the
Sacramento conference in August? With Lars? (Or maybe the nearly broke
airlines will offer dirt cheap fares?)
The keynote speaker is going to be Dr. Thomas Armstrong, whose "thing"
is multiple intelligences. I also hear that the teen program is
fabulous. And think about how much you can talk in an incredibly long
and tiring car ride!
(This isn't a total non-sequitur. I have the impression that Lars'
learning style is mostly kinesthetic.)
Betsy
**One of the things I have a hard time with is getting used to lots of
time to do my thing when he doesn't want my involvement, then making the
switch to helping him when I'm in the middle of something of my own.
When he wants to do something, he wants to do it now. I've put him off
till later enough times to know that he'll just lose interest in
whatever it was by the time I get around to it.**
Me, too! I guess if you start to feel sad that he's pulling away and
not spending enough time with you then you give greater and greater
value to the "interruptions".
Pamela Sorooshian
On Monday, April 7, 2003, at 12:07 PM, Betsy wrote:
just fantastic - he'll make friends and have a total blast!!!
--pam
> Are you crazy enough to want to drive all the way south from BC to theOh TIA!!!! Please consider it. I'll be there and the teen program is
> Sacramento conference in August? With Lars? (Or maybe the nearly
> broke
> airlines will offer dirt cheap fares?)
just fantastic - he'll make friends and have a total blast!!!
--pam
Have a Nice Day!
SHoot.
I wish we could come. We are going to Woodward that weekend.
Kristen
I wish we could come. We are going to Woodward that weekend.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] about time, and involvement, and older kids
On Monday, April 7, 2003, at 12:07 PM, Betsy wrote:
> Are you crazy enough to want to drive all the way south from BC to the
> Sacramento conference in August? With Lars? (Or maybe the nearly
> broke
> airlines will offer dirt cheap fares?)
Oh TIA!!!! Please consider it. I'll be there and the teen program is
just fantastic - he'll make friends and have a total blast!!!
--pam
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>As unlikely as it is, what are the dates?
> > Are you crazy enough to want to drive all the way south from BC to the
> > Sacramento conference in August? With Lars? (Or maybe the nearly
> > broke
> > airlines will offer dirt cheap fares?)
>
> Oh TIA!!!! Please consider it. I'll be there and the teen program is
> just fantastic - he'll make friends and have a total blast!!!
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Amy Alexander
Just thought I would write a little about myself and
my kids, since I have been reading the messeges for
about a week now. I have two kids, ages 5 and 2. I
started homeschooling the oldest last year. He went
through the Kingergarden curriculum in a flash. (Some
of you might know or remember me from the messege
boards) When I tried to start some harder stuff with
him, he ended up hating the school activies. And part
of it was my fault of course. I probably pushed him
too hard and expected too much from him. So I have
dropped the school work for the rest of the year and
summer at least. I guess I will decide after that
what to do. I was planning on doing this virtual
charter school with him next year, but we will wait
and see. I do not know why I feel such a need to
'teach him'. It is not like he has any problems
learning on his own. He has pretty much taught
himself how to read. I bought the hooked on phonics
program, but that seemed to bore him and it wasn't
long before he was reading words not even on that at
his level. So lately I have been letting them both do
pretty much what they want. I do sometimes initiate
activities, but I never make either of them do
anything anymore. I hardest part for me has been me
not feeling bad because I feel like I am not doing
enough. Also, sometimes it is hard for me to get
involved in what they are doing. So I have been
trying to do one thing with them a day. Like play a
game or watch a movie or something like that. And
sometimes it is hard for me to pay attention to
everything the oldest is saying to me. He talks non
stop sometimes, but I am getting much better at
stopping what I am doing and looking at him and
responding to him. Anyway, I guess this has gotten
long enough. My main point being that this has been
as much of a learning experience to me as it has been
for them. And I think I am stating to relate better
with my oldest son.
Amy
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
my kids, since I have been reading the messeges for
about a week now. I have two kids, ages 5 and 2. I
started homeschooling the oldest last year. He went
through the Kingergarden curriculum in a flash. (Some
of you might know or remember me from the messege
boards) When I tried to start some harder stuff with
him, he ended up hating the school activies. And part
of it was my fault of course. I probably pushed him
too hard and expected too much from him. So I have
dropped the school work for the rest of the year and
summer at least. I guess I will decide after that
what to do. I was planning on doing this virtual
charter school with him next year, but we will wait
and see. I do not know why I feel such a need to
'teach him'. It is not like he has any problems
learning on his own. He has pretty much taught
himself how to read. I bought the hooked on phonics
program, but that seemed to bore him and it wasn't
long before he was reading words not even on that at
his level. So lately I have been letting them both do
pretty much what they want. I do sometimes initiate
activities, but I never make either of them do
anything anymore. I hardest part for me has been me
not feeling bad because I feel like I am not doing
enough. Also, sometimes it is hard for me to get
involved in what they are doing. So I have been
trying to do one thing with them a day. Like play a
game or watch a movie or something like that. And
sometimes it is hard for me to pay attention to
everything the oldest is saying to me. He talks non
stop sometimes, but I am getting much better at
stopping what I am doing and looking at him and
responding to him. Anyway, I guess this has gotten
long enough. My main point being that this has been
as much of a learning experience to me as it has been
for them. And I think I am stating to relate better
with my oldest son.
Amy
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
Betsy
**> Oh TIA!!!! Please consider it. I'll be there and the teen program is
Tia
**
Hi, Tia -
The HSC Home=Education Conference is smack in the middle of August,
starting the evening of Friday the 15th and continuing until about 5pm
on Sunday the 17th.
I won't actively ill-wish your son's sports team (honest!), but it would
be GREAT if you could come.
Betsy
> just fantastic - he'll make friends and have a total blast!!!As unlikely as it is, what are the dates?
Tia
**
Hi, Tia -
The HSC Home=Education Conference is smack in the middle of August,
starting the evening of Friday the 15th and continuing until about 5pm
on Sunday the 17th.
I won't actively ill-wish your son's sports team (honest!), but it would
be GREAT if you could come.
Betsy
Pamela Sorooshian
August 15-17th. In Sacramento.
The next weekend is in South Carolina!!
I'll be at both.
-pam
The next weekend is in South Carolina!!
I'll be at both.
-pam
On Monday, April 7, 2003, at 03:05 PM, Tia Leschke wrote:
>>
>>> Are you crazy enough to want to drive all the way south from BC to
>>> the
>>> Sacramento conference in August? With Lars? (Or maybe the nearly
>>> broke
>>> airlines will offer dirt cheap fares?)
>>
>> Oh TIA!!!! Please consider it. I'll be there and the teen program is
>> just fantastic - he'll make friends and have a total blast!!!
>
> As unlikely as it is, what are the dates?
> Tia
Tia Leschke
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
writers conference in the fall. And my car just blew a head gasket. It's
going to cost $1100 to fix that. Somehow I can't see any extra money being
available. But maybe I'll buy a lottery ticket or two. <g>
Tia
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
> The HSC Home=Education Conference is smack in the middle of August,Like I said, it's unlikely. Besides the games, I was hoping to go to a
> starting the evening of Friday the 15th and continuing until about 5pm
> on Sunday the 17th.
>
> I won't actively ill-wish your son's sports team (honest!), but it would
> be GREAT if you could come.
writers conference in the fall. And my car just blew a head gasket. It's
going to cost $1100 to fix that. Somehow I can't see any extra money being
available. But maybe I'll buy a lottery ticket or two. <g>
Tia