concerns, doubts, questioning myself
sevenhavei
We've been unschooling with curriculum for four years. (My oldest
just turned 12 and has been home since the end of second grade in
ps.) We have the books, etc. and she is free to use or not use them
as she desires. There are times when she pours through them for
days then she may drop them for months only to pour through them
again, etc. As with any child, adult, human, etc....she has
strenghts and weaknesses, for lack of a better term.
I have been quite confident in her and myself for the past few
years, but now, for some reason, I find my fears and doubts
swallowing me. My husband is pushing for her to return to ps, which
has her mind racing with the idea. She rarely brings up returning,
but when she does, I find myself nervous. She is extremely mature,
responsible and bright, however she is behind in certain areas, as
far as ps standards go. Just in the past six months, I have watched
her flourish as a writer, take responsibility for and set her own
daily rhythm and become quite a young lady.
As the oldest of seven, with the next in line being 5 years younger,
she has struggled with her relationship with her siblings, often
feeling left out because they are all so young. With the birth of
our last child 6 months ago, to whom she has a strong bond, she has
blossomed as the big sister....I often catch her reading them books,
teaching them to read or count...or just loving them in the sweetest
of ways. When most children her age are heading into the often
dreaded teen years, our daughter has become an absolute pleasure to
be around. It pains me to think of losing these daily moments with
her.
At this point, I am not facing the struggle of letting her go to ps,
but the older she gets, the more leary my husband becomes of
homeschooling. He is fine with the elementary years but thinks the
peer relationships of ps are so important...no matter how I explain
my views, he butts heads with me.
I'm not sure where I am going with this and apologize for the
length. I guess I am looking for reassurance or direction? It is
so easy to relax when they are ahead and flying, but I don't often
hear about those who fall behind here or there. I've been online
all night trying to find some gem of information but I am coming up
emtpy. I suppose my biggest fear is the day she really does want to
go back to ps (if that day comes) and the thought of having to tell
her she isn't on grade level in some areas and in others she would
face the possibility of boredom.
I look forward to your thoughts.
Warm Wishes,
Jennifer
just turned 12 and has been home since the end of second grade in
ps.) We have the books, etc. and she is free to use or not use them
as she desires. There are times when she pours through them for
days then she may drop them for months only to pour through them
again, etc. As with any child, adult, human, etc....she has
strenghts and weaknesses, for lack of a better term.
I have been quite confident in her and myself for the past few
years, but now, for some reason, I find my fears and doubts
swallowing me. My husband is pushing for her to return to ps, which
has her mind racing with the idea. She rarely brings up returning,
but when she does, I find myself nervous. She is extremely mature,
responsible and bright, however she is behind in certain areas, as
far as ps standards go. Just in the past six months, I have watched
her flourish as a writer, take responsibility for and set her own
daily rhythm and become quite a young lady.
As the oldest of seven, with the next in line being 5 years younger,
she has struggled with her relationship with her siblings, often
feeling left out because they are all so young. With the birth of
our last child 6 months ago, to whom she has a strong bond, she has
blossomed as the big sister....I often catch her reading them books,
teaching them to read or count...or just loving them in the sweetest
of ways. When most children her age are heading into the often
dreaded teen years, our daughter has become an absolute pleasure to
be around. It pains me to think of losing these daily moments with
her.
At this point, I am not facing the struggle of letting her go to ps,
but the older she gets, the more leary my husband becomes of
homeschooling. He is fine with the elementary years but thinks the
peer relationships of ps are so important...no matter how I explain
my views, he butts heads with me.
I'm not sure where I am going with this and apologize for the
length. I guess I am looking for reassurance or direction? It is
so easy to relax when they are ahead and flying, but I don't often
hear about those who fall behind here or there. I've been online
all night trying to find some gem of information but I am coming up
emtpy. I suppose my biggest fear is the day she really does want to
go back to ps (if that day comes) and the thought of having to tell
her she isn't on grade level in some areas and in others she would
face the possibility of boredom.
I look forward to your thoughts.
Warm Wishes,
Jennifer
Pamela Sorooshian
On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 11:25 PM, sevenhavei wrote:
Most kids are not on "grade level" - don't worry so much about it. I
know quite a few kids who have gone to high school after unschooling
for all their younger years. They have varied reasons for it. Most are
kids whose parents thought they were "behind" grade level. Sometimes
the first year - they weren't ready for the most advanced stuff. But,
when kids enter high school - there is lots of variation in kids'
abilities - little retention - and they teach the same stuff over that
the kids had already been taught in earlier grades.
There are sometimes some funny things that the previously-unschooled
kids don't 'get" at first - but they catch on very quickly. For
example, one kid I know had to do a paper for her combination
history/english class - it was to be a diary entry as if she was a girl
traveling in a wagon train. They couldn't type it because "they didn't
have typewriters then." She turned her paper in and the teacher
returned it because it was not stapled - she was told to staple it and
turn it in the next day (marked down for being one day late). The girl
said, "But they didn't have staples then," and got marked down extra
for insubordination. The hardest thing about going to school, for these
kids, is that kind of nonsense and not being able to speak directly to
adults without it being called insubordination.
-pam
> I suppose my biggest fear is the day she really does want toJennifer ---
> go back to ps (if that day comes) and the thought of having to tell
> her she isn't on grade level in some areas and in others she would
> face the possibility of boredom.
Most kids are not on "grade level" - don't worry so much about it. I
know quite a few kids who have gone to high school after unschooling
for all their younger years. They have varied reasons for it. Most are
kids whose parents thought they were "behind" grade level. Sometimes
the first year - they weren't ready for the most advanced stuff. But,
when kids enter high school - there is lots of variation in kids'
abilities - little retention - and they teach the same stuff over that
the kids had already been taught in earlier grades.
There are sometimes some funny things that the previously-unschooled
kids don't 'get" at first - but they catch on very quickly. For
example, one kid I know had to do a paper for her combination
history/english class - it was to be a diary entry as if she was a girl
traveling in a wagon train. They couldn't type it because "they didn't
have typewriters then." She turned her paper in and the teacher
returned it because it was not stapled - she was told to staple it and
turn it in the next day (marked down for being one day late). The girl
said, "But they didn't have staples then," and got marked down extra
for insubordination. The hardest thing about going to school, for these
kids, is that kind of nonsense and not being able to speak directly to
adults without it being called insubordination.
-pam
athom
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
<<>>On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 11:25 PM, sevenhavei wrote:
I suppose my biggest fear is the day she really does want to
go back to ps (if that day comes) and the thought of having to tell
her she isn't on grade level in some areas and in others she would
face the possibility of boredom.
<> Most kids are not on "grade level" - don't worry so much about
it. -Pam<>
Jennifer:
Let me ditto Pam's reply. I am doing some contract work right now
for an educational testing company, scoring proficiency tests for
different states. What an eye opener! Lately we've been doing 8th
and 10th grade tests. If you think your child is not on "grade
level" you should see what I am seeing, every day, about 900 to 1500
times a day, from all over the country. There are very, very few who
actually are working up to the level set out by institutionalized
learning "experts."
And just what does that mean anyway? The rubrics that we must use to
score many of these questions actually punish the creative or out-of-
the-box thinker. Bill Gates or Einstein would not have done well on
many parts of these tests. Time and again we lowly test-scorers ask
why we have to score a zero for a kid when we can clearly see that
this child's answer is well-written, logical, appropriate, but does
not fit the pre-determined rubric set by the person who wrote the
question and the committee he or she used to refine the rubric for
exactly what they want the child to answer, not what might be an
equally good response. No leeway. The test scorers are constantly
being tested themselves and called on the carpet for any variation
from the percentages that the test designers want.
I'm not allowed to say much more due to contractual secrecy, but you
will find much of the same type of information in the book, THE BIG
TEST: THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN MERITOCRACY by Nicholas
Lemann. Here's a web site where you can read more about this book
(read an excerpt, reviews, even take a test):
http://www.the-big-test.com/
After I read this book I chose to accept a temporary contract job in
this field. I'm a true unschooler myself, wanting to learn hands-on
whenever possible. Wanted to see from the inside what was really
going on, since so many put so much credence in testing. Believe me,
my eyes have been opened.
The most important eye-opener was what I experienced while training
for this job. We have to learn these rubrics and are tested, over
and over again, to be sure we have learned them the way the state
wants them learned. I quickly felt the elation that comes with a 90%
or 100% score on these tests. I was thoroughly programmed for this
and surprised that it never leaves you once the programming takes, no
matter how much we intellectually disagree with it. And then came
the depression, self-doubt and loss of self-confidence that comes
when I found myself scoring 40%, 50% or 60% on some of these
rubrics. I quickly realized that if this could happen to me in less
than one hour, then think of the cumulative impact it must have on
all the poor kids who are forced to do this, who spend every day and
every week being "graded," being told how good they are, or how bad
they are, at everything they do. This is the real poison of all
testing and of setting up parameters for "grade level work."
My advice: stay away from anything that tries to put your child in a
box. There is so much more to learning than some make-believe grade
level created by some ego-maniacal academic, or group of academics.
Norma
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
<<>>On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 11:25 PM, sevenhavei wrote:
I suppose my biggest fear is the day she really does want to
go back to ps (if that day comes) and the thought of having to tell
her she isn't on grade level in some areas and in others she would
face the possibility of boredom.
<> Most kids are not on "grade level" - don't worry so much about
it. -Pam<>
Jennifer:
Let me ditto Pam's reply. I am doing some contract work right now
for an educational testing company, scoring proficiency tests for
different states. What an eye opener! Lately we've been doing 8th
and 10th grade tests. If you think your child is not on "grade
level" you should see what I am seeing, every day, about 900 to 1500
times a day, from all over the country. There are very, very few who
actually are working up to the level set out by institutionalized
learning "experts."
And just what does that mean anyway? The rubrics that we must use to
score many of these questions actually punish the creative or out-of-
the-box thinker. Bill Gates or Einstein would not have done well on
many parts of these tests. Time and again we lowly test-scorers ask
why we have to score a zero for a kid when we can clearly see that
this child's answer is well-written, logical, appropriate, but does
not fit the pre-determined rubric set by the person who wrote the
question and the committee he or she used to refine the rubric for
exactly what they want the child to answer, not what might be an
equally good response. No leeway. The test scorers are constantly
being tested themselves and called on the carpet for any variation
from the percentages that the test designers want.
I'm not allowed to say much more due to contractual secrecy, but you
will find much of the same type of information in the book, THE BIG
TEST: THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN MERITOCRACY by Nicholas
Lemann. Here's a web site where you can read more about this book
(read an excerpt, reviews, even take a test):
http://www.the-big-test.com/
After I read this book I chose to accept a temporary contract job in
this field. I'm a true unschooler myself, wanting to learn hands-on
whenever possible. Wanted to see from the inside what was really
going on, since so many put so much credence in testing. Believe me,
my eyes have been opened.
The most important eye-opener was what I experienced while training
for this job. We have to learn these rubrics and are tested, over
and over again, to be sure we have learned them the way the state
wants them learned. I quickly felt the elation that comes with a 90%
or 100% score on these tests. I was thoroughly programmed for this
and surprised that it never leaves you once the programming takes, no
matter how much we intellectually disagree with it. And then came
the depression, self-doubt and loss of self-confidence that comes
when I found myself scoring 40%, 50% or 60% on some of these
rubrics. I quickly realized that if this could happen to me in less
than one hour, then think of the cumulative impact it must have on
all the poor kids who are forced to do this, who spend every day and
every week being "graded," being told how good they are, or how bad
they are, at everything they do. This is the real poison of all
testing and of setting up parameters for "grade level work."
My advice: stay away from anything that tries to put your child in a
box. There is so much more to learning than some make-believe grade
level created by some ego-maniacal academic, or group of academics.
Norma
Pamela Sorooshian
This was really interesting, Norma. Thanks for posting about your
experience - especially about the impact on you, personally, when you
were scored, yourself, on how well your score the test. Fascinating!!!
It is really something to remember, how POWERFUL that experience can be.
-pam
experience - especially about the impact on you, personally, when you
were scored, yourself, on how well your score the test. Fascinating!!!
It is really something to remember, how POWERFUL that experience can be.
-pam
On Sunday, April 6, 2003, at 04:50 AM, athom wrote:
> My advice: stay away from anything that tries to put your child in a
> box. There is so much more to learning than some make-believe grade
> level created by some ego-maniacal academic, or group of academics.
Tia Leschke
>I hope you let her know how much you appreciate her presence and the way she
> As the oldest of seven, with the next in line being 5 years younger,
> she has struggled with her relationship with her siblings, often
> feeling left out because they are all so young. With the birth of
> our last child 6 months ago, to whom she has a strong bond, she has
> blossomed as the big sister....I often catch her reading them books,
> teaching them to read or count...or just loving them in the sweetest
> of ways. When most children her age are heading into the often
> dreaded teen years, our daughter has become an absolute pleasure to
> be around. It pains me to think of losing these daily moments with
> her.
is so kind to her siblings.
>Maybe instead of arguing with him about it, you could ask him exactly what
> At this point, I am not facing the struggle of letting her go to ps,
> but the older she gets, the more leary my husband becomes of
> homeschooling. He is fine with the elementary years but thinks the
> peer relationships of ps are so important...no matter how I explain
> my views, he butts heads with me.
he means by peer relationships and how that gets fostered in school. On one
list, somebody posted that they had decided their kids need socialization so
they took them into the bathroom once a week and beat them up for their
lunch money. <g>
Seriously, he probably hasn't thought about what he means by peer
relationships. (I'm assuming your daughter has at least *some* peer
relationships.) People mean such different things when they ask about
socialization. To some it means learning to follow rules, which
homeschoolers also do. To some it means having friendships, which
homeschoolers also do. To some it means learning to sit down, shut up, and
do what you're told without thinking. I doubt this is what your husband
wants for her, but she *would* learn it (or learn to completely rebel
against it) in school. You might also ask him how many friends he's still
in touch with from high school. From what I can tell, most people haven't
kept many or even some of those friendships unless they grew up in a small
town and stayed there.
>Well you've probably heard here about my son who only learned to read when
> I'm not sure where I am going with this and apologize for the
> length. I guess I am looking for reassurance or direction? It is
> so easy to relax when they are ahead and flying, but I don't often
> hear about those who fall behind here or there.
he was 12.
I've been online
> all night trying to find some gem of information but I am coming upI asked a teacher once how many kids in the average grade 4 class (what my
> emtpy. I suppose my biggest fear is the day she really does want to
> go back to ps (if that day comes) and the thought of having to tell
> her she isn't on grade level in some areas and in others she would
> face the possibility of boredom.
son would have been in at the time if he went to school) were at grade level
in all subjects. His answer was none. Some would be ahead in everything.
Some would be behind in everything. And the others would be ahead in some
things and behind in others.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
jmcseals SEALS
>I hope you let her know how much you appreciate her presence and the >wayOh absolutely! As a matter of fact, I often have to restrain my gushing
>she
>is so kind to her siblings.
because it drives her crazy! BG!
>Maybe instead of arguing with him about it, you could ask him exactly >whatHere's the tricky part. I *try* not to butt heads because what he says just
>he means by peer relationships and how that gets fostered in school.
makes me insane and since I need every ounce of sanity I can muster on a
daily basis >snicker< I usually don't argue. Besides, I think he is
beginning to enjoy the clash. He thinks she needs to be around bad
situations to learn how to deal with them. He isn't concerned about
fostering friendships (at least from what I can glean from his spoutings,
because she does have close friendships). He is concerned about her being
faced with drug use, bullying, etc. and not being able to handle it. He
thinks she SHOULD be faced with those things! I take a completely different
road. My goodness, she is only 12! I *was* faced with those things at 12
and I can tell you no good came from those experiences. I'd give anything
had I had more guidance and protection! He doesn't have ONE friend from
school anymore and often tells me how much he hated school...how he joined
co-op to avoid it. Occasionaly I may hear how she needs to be able to be a
cheerleader or join band or just have 800 kids to choose friends from. Last
night it was the 'on level' thing. Those arguements aren't even worth
starting because he won't even listen to HER when she says she isn't
interested in those things! Cheerleading is the last interest on her list
and she is a self taught guitar player...not even possible in ps here
anyway.
My husband and I were raised in abusive homes. We saw and were exposed to
just about all of it. I came out wanting nothing remotely like that for my
children, he came out feeling like there's always someone worse off. I
digress...
Ususally, I am able to appease his *concerns* (sorry if the emphasis of that
was rude) by nodding my head and keeping quiet, but now that she is getting
older and finding her niche in different areas (she loves skateboarding and
punk music) he thinks she needs to be in the masses. I keep my eyes wide
open and censor, which he also thinks is rediculous. He thinks she is smart
enough to avoid or ignore bad things, I, on the other hand feel as if she is
constantly exposed, she will become desensitized and find it easier to go
with the crowd. She has always been a silent leader in negative situations,
she doesn't join in, but she won't leave or speak out either, which concerns
me. I feel like we are still in the stage of laying down our morals and
beliefs and I see my cousins, who are in ps, being sooo influenced by their
peers. In a homeschool setting, I am able to monitor situations more
closely and gently offer my guidance without being overbearing or nosy.
From what I have experienced myself, and seen in others, it is near
impossible to do that when your child is away 9 hours a day.
>Well you've probably heard here about my son who only learned to read >whenI actually just joined the group last night, so I hadn't read this yet, but
>he was 12.
I have heard similar stories and it does help to ease my anxiety and fears.
>I asked a teacher once how many kids in the average grade 4 class >(what myThat is inspiring! Just goes to show that the *system* isn't always right.
>son would have been in at the time if he went to school) were at grade
> >level
>in all subjects. His answer was none. Some would be ahead in >everything.
>Some would be behind in everything. And the others would be ahead in >some
>things and behind in others.
>Tia
I suppose I knew this, but it is so easy to forget. I come from a family
with many teachers and the pressure can really be overwhelming at times. I
muster up all my strength and hold my head high because I also hear my
family tell me how well behaved my children are, how much they love to
learn, etc. My grandmother came by Thursday to go with us to park day with
our local support group. It was raining and no one was there, so she asked
the kids if they wanted to go to McD's and play inside. Not one did. THey
wanted to go to the book store instead. She said she'd never heard a child
(much less 6..little one is too young to speak up) refuse McDonalds play for
a book! As a mother, as a life learner, those words were priceless. :)
Thank you for all of your wisdom, I have a hard time shutting up but this
has sparked my fires!
Warmly,
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**He thinks she needs to be around bad
situations to learn how to deal with them. He isn't concerned about
fostering friendships (at least from what I can glean from his
spoutings,
because she does have close friendships). He is concerned about her
being
faced with drug use, bullying, etc. and not being able to handle it. He
thinks she SHOULD be faced with those things! I take a completely
different
road. My goodness, she is only 12! I *was* faced with those things at
12
and I can tell you no good came from those experiences.**
Get him alone, in a good mood, give him a glass of wine and get him to
recount to you his stories about what valuable interpersonal lessons he
feels he learned in junior high school and high school. Keep the topic
off of your daughter and just focus on his experiences and how *what
they mean* to him.
I was pulling weeds for a long time yesterday and it really reminds me
that you have to slowly and patiently pull until you get the entire
root. ;-)
Betsy
situations to learn how to deal with them. He isn't concerned about
fostering friendships (at least from what I can glean from his
spoutings,
because she does have close friendships). He is concerned about her
being
faced with drug use, bullying, etc. and not being able to handle it. He
thinks she SHOULD be faced with those things! I take a completely
different
road. My goodness, she is only 12! I *was* faced with those things at
12
and I can tell you no good came from those experiences.**
Get him alone, in a good mood, give him a glass of wine and get him to
recount to you his stories about what valuable interpersonal lessons he
feels he learned in junior high school and high school. Keep the topic
off of your daughter and just focus on his experiences and how *what
they mean* to him.
I was pulling weeds for a long time yesterday and it really reminds me
that you have to slowly and patiently pull until you get the entire
root. ;-)
Betsy
Have a Nice Day!
This is not meant as harshly as it sounds, but I've heard this so many times I wonder if a wake up call isn't in order.
How far does he want to go to "expose" her to bad things so she can deal with them.
Jail exists. And *maybe* she'll land in jail and will have to learn to deal with it someday.
Would he send her to jail in order to learn how to cope with it? (She would learn all about the things he is concerned about there too). But is it a good idea? Of course not.
Kristen
How far does he want to go to "expose" her to bad things so she can deal with them.
Jail exists. And *maybe* she'll land in jail and will have to learn to deal with it someday.
Would he send her to jail in order to learn how to cope with it? (She would learn all about the things he is concerned about there too). But is it a good idea? Of course not.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Betsy
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] concerns, doubts, questioning myself
**He thinks she needs to be around bad
situations to learn how to deal with them. He isn't concerned about
fostering friendships (at least from what I can glean from his
spoutings,
because she does have close friendships). He is concerned about her
being
faced with drug use, bullying, etc. and not being able to handle it. He
thinks she SHOULD be faced with those things! I take a completely
different
road. My goodness, she is only 12! I *was* faced with those things at
12
and I can tell you no good came from those experiences.**
Get him alone, in a good mood, give him a glass of wine and get him to
recount to you his stories about what valuable interpersonal lessons he
feels he learned in junior high school and high school. Keep the topic
off of your daughter and just focus on his experiences and how *what
they mean* to him.
I was pulling weeds for a long time yesterday and it really reminds me
that you have to slowly and patiently pull until you get the entire
root. ;-)
Betsy
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jmcseals Seals
Wow Kristen, you must be a fly on my wall! I feel the same way! It IS harsh, and in my opinion, quite crazy! I think I'll heed Betsy's advice and try to get stories out of him of *his* childhood in ps.
Thanks so much, I'm loving this list already!
Jennifer
This is not meant as harshly as it sounds, but I've heard this so many times I wonder if a wake up call isn't in order.
How far does he want to go to "expose" her to bad things so she can deal with them.
Jail exists. And *maybe* she'll land in jail and will have to learn to deal with it someday.
Would he send her to jail in order to learn how to cope with it? (She would learn all about the things he is concerned about there too). But is it a good idea? Of course not.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks so much, I'm loving this list already!
Jennifer
This is not meant as harshly as it sounds, but I've heard this so many times I wonder if a wake up call isn't in order.
How far does he want to go to "expose" her to bad things so she can deal with them.
Jail exists. And *maybe* she'll land in jail and will have to learn to deal with it someday.
Would he send her to jail in order to learn how to cope with it? (She would learn all about the things he is concerned about there too). But is it a good idea? Of course not.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
LOL, Well....ok I guess <grin>
Kristen
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: jmcseals Seals
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] concerns, doubts, questioning myself
Wow Kristen, you must be a fly on my wall! I feel the same way! It IS harsh, and in my opinion, quite crazy! I think I'll heed Betsy's advice and try to get stories out of him of *his* childhood in ps.
Thanks so much, I'm loving this list already!
Jennifer
This is not meant as harshly as it sounds, but I've heard this so many times I wonder if a wake up call isn't in order.
How far does he want to go to "expose" her to bad things so she can deal with them.
Jail exists. And *maybe* she'll land in jail and will have to learn to deal with it someday.
Would he send her to jail in order to learn how to cope with it? (She would learn all about the things he is concerned about there too). But is it a good idea? Of course not.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]