new member intro.
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/5/03 12:38:38 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< We are just starting out on the home/un schooling path, although it
feels like we've been doing this all along anyway. We are in NW
Florida, and thankfully have already met one other unschooling family
(and hope to meet more soon). >>
What part of NW Florida?
I run an inclusive group in Pensacola. Welcome.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< We are just starting out on the home/un schooling path, although it
feels like we've been doing this all along anyway. We are in NW
Florida, and thankfully have already met one other unschooling family
(and hope to meet more soon). >>
What part of NW Florida?
I run an inclusive group in Pensacola. Welcome.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/5/03 12:38:38 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
Ren, other Floridians--- at what age is a child required to be registered in
FL? Until then, relax and enjoy his learning! >>
Not until they turn six by Feb.
So Sierra, turning six this month, won't need to be registered until this
fall.
I agree with you...four is all about PLAY (and by the time they're older
you'll see that play is the best way for ALL humans to learn)
But I figured if Sunny came to our group she'd be surrounded by a bunch of
relaxed types and maybe we could influence her that way!!! :)_
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<<
Ren, other Floridians--- at what age is a child required to be registered in
FL? Until then, relax and enjoy his learning! >>
Not until they turn six by Feb.
So Sierra, turning six this month, won't need to be registered until this
fall.
I agree with you...four is all about PLAY (and by the time they're older
you'll see that play is the best way for ALL humans to learn)
But I figured if Sunny came to our group she'd be surrounded by a bunch of
relaxed types and maybe we could influence her that way!!! :)_
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
Sunshyne Powell
We in Pensacola, over by Navy Blvd and Barrancas (Warrington area). Is
your group the Pensacola Unschooling group, or are you part of another
one?
Sunny Powell
-----Original Message-----
From: starsuncloud@...
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] new member intro.
What part of NW Florida?
I run an inclusive group in Pensacola. Welcome.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
your group the Pensacola Unschooling group, or are you part of another
one?
Sunny Powell
-----Original Message-----
From: starsuncloud@...
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] new member intro.
What part of NW Florida?
I run an inclusive group in Pensacola. Welcome.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle~ms65442
I joined the list about a month ago and � wow! � I�ve discovered a new
way to look at things. For a few weeks I was lurking and feeling
hostile (like you guys were being �mean�), but still reading, and then I
started to really �get� it and see the wisdom in what everyone was
writing. The TV and food discussions were particularly meaningful to
me.
I really, truly believe that kids will do what�s best for them at that
moment. And that�s pretty easy for me right now � my son is 11 months.
I�ll probably need some pep-talks by the time he�s school age and I�m
getting pressure from family/SO. Anyway, I�m really trying to create an
open, welcome environment for Rory in my home. He is basically allowed
to wander about at will. He eats when hungry, never on a schedule. I
really �pick my battles� with him � there are things that my SO feels he
shouldn�t do that I think are ok.
And therein lies the problem. He�s exploring his world and I feel that
when he�s reprimanded by his dad for something like making too much
noise banging spoons in the bathtub, or slapping the fish tank or some
other such non-dangerous activity, that if he continues to be
�corrected� or warned or reprimanded it will eventually curb his natural
enthusiasm and joy and sense of exploration. His dad is a great guy, he
just thinks a big part of parenting is teaching Rory how to behave. I
think Rory will learn by our modeling of appropriate behavior.
I�m probably getting myself too worked up about this. But I really want
to foster that trust in my son that so many of you have with your
children. And I want our environment to be one of unschooling from the
beginning. How would you deal with the unnecessary overcorrecting and
instruction? Or am I just thinking way too far into this whole issue,
seeing as Rory is still so young?
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
way to look at things. For a few weeks I was lurking and feeling
hostile (like you guys were being �mean�), but still reading, and then I
started to really �get� it and see the wisdom in what everyone was
writing. The TV and food discussions were particularly meaningful to
me.
I really, truly believe that kids will do what�s best for them at that
moment. And that�s pretty easy for me right now � my son is 11 months.
I�ll probably need some pep-talks by the time he�s school age and I�m
getting pressure from family/SO. Anyway, I�m really trying to create an
open, welcome environment for Rory in my home. He is basically allowed
to wander about at will. He eats when hungry, never on a schedule. I
really �pick my battles� with him � there are things that my SO feels he
shouldn�t do that I think are ok.
And therein lies the problem. He�s exploring his world and I feel that
when he�s reprimanded by his dad for something like making too much
noise banging spoons in the bathtub, or slapping the fish tank or some
other such non-dangerous activity, that if he continues to be
�corrected� or warned or reprimanded it will eventually curb his natural
enthusiasm and joy and sense of exploration. His dad is a great guy, he
just thinks a big part of parenting is teaching Rory how to behave. I
think Rory will learn by our modeling of appropriate behavior.
I�m probably getting myself too worked up about this. But I really want
to foster that trust in my son that so many of you have with your
children. And I want our environment to be one of unschooling from the
beginning. How would you deal with the unnecessary overcorrecting and
instruction? Or am I just thinking way too far into this whole issue,
seeing as Rory is still so young?
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorcha
Ask his dad to come up with one or two definite "no"s and let the rest
go. Like hitting the fish tank might be a definite no because for one
thing it could break and for another thing it sounds like the end of the
world to the poor fish. But making too much noise in the bathtub
shouldn't be a problem unless there are grumpy neighbors trying to sleep
on the other side of the bathroom wall.
We had one big "no" for our son (who just turned two yesterday). That
was hitting the TV. There are kids who have gotten injured or killed
when TVs fell on them, so when my son would get over-excited and hit it,
that was his only no. When he was getting into the cat litter, we found
another place to put the litter box. When he was writing on the walls,
we kept telling him we'd rather he write on paper and providing paper.
I can't think of any other issues we've had with him, because really,
what does a baby do that's "bad"? Most of the issues can be stopped by
the parents changing the environment a little. Like kids used to stick
things in outlets and now you can buy 12 outlet covers for $1.
Also, when my husband starts getting all authoritarian and making
arbitrary rules, I tease him about being "1950s dad" and he gets the
point without getting into an argument.
Sorcha
go. Like hitting the fish tank might be a definite no because for one
thing it could break and for another thing it sounds like the end of the
world to the poor fish. But making too much noise in the bathtub
shouldn't be a problem unless there are grumpy neighbors trying to sleep
on the other side of the bathroom wall.
We had one big "no" for our son (who just turned two yesterday). That
was hitting the TV. There are kids who have gotten injured or killed
when TVs fell on them, so when my son would get over-excited and hit it,
that was his only no. When he was getting into the cat litter, we found
another place to put the litter box. When he was writing on the walls,
we kept telling him we'd rather he write on paper and providing paper.
I can't think of any other issues we've had with him, because really,
what does a baby do that's "bad"? Most of the issues can be stopped by
the parents changing the environment a little. Like kids used to stick
things in outlets and now you can buy 12 outlet covers for $1.
Also, when my husband starts getting all authoritarian and making
arbitrary rules, I tease him about being "1950s dad" and he gets the
point without getting into an argument.
Sorcha
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/2003 7:29:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:
downtown in Belleville, Illinois. He VERY rarely heard "no". But if Ben or I
yelled, "NO!", Cameron would immediately drop and sit. And it's an
ear-splitting, scary, shake-you-to-the-core "NO!". My dogs react the same
way. <g> It's for serious offenses.
My mother would sing, "no-no-noooo-ooo". <poodle voice-poodle voice-poodle
voice!> Who listens to THAT?
My "NO!" will stop you in your tracks. And we used it for a reason.
I wouldn't allow the fish to be disturbed---that's just unkind. Our "NO!" was
to prevent harm to Cameron or to others, fish included.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sorcha-aisling@... writes:
> I can't think of any other issues we've had with him, because really,Running into a busy street. When Cameron was a toddler, we lived right
> what does a baby do that's "bad"?
downtown in Belleville, Illinois. He VERY rarely heard "no". But if Ben or I
yelled, "NO!", Cameron would immediately drop and sit. And it's an
ear-splitting, scary, shake-you-to-the-core "NO!". My dogs react the same
way. <g> It's for serious offenses.
My mother would sing, "no-no-noooo-ooo". <poodle voice-poodle voice-poodle
voice!> Who listens to THAT?
My "NO!" will stop you in your tracks. And we used it for a reason.
I wouldn't allow the fish to be disturbed---that's just unkind. Our "NO!" was
to prevent harm to Cameron or to others, fish included.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorcha
>>>My mother would sing, "no-no-noooo-ooo". <poodle voice-poodlevoice-poodle
voice!> Who listens to THAT?<<<
Oooh, that sounds like nails on a chalkboard even in email. My mom does
that too. I have no idea why. When I see her with my kids, I see that
she's not actually interacting with them at all and it's as though she
thinks small children are complete idiots.
>>>My "NO!" will stop you in your tracks. And we used it for areason.<<<
Exactly. Kids learn to tune out the constant "no"s, so parents need to
sit down and agree on the big "NO"s and then avoid the word "no" if it
isn't a "NO". My mom loves to tell people about how when I was two I
used to go through the house saying, "No, no, no, no, no" all day long.
She thinks it's the funniest thing. My husband and I both cringe when
she tells that (apparently her only memory of me being two) because if I
really said it in the tone of voice that she tells it in, then I must
have picked it up from hearing an adult say it that very way.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
. " I don't believe in the complete
structure that seems to go hand in hand with homeschooling, but complete
unschooling would not fit my family's situation either. "
And that's ok....that's what my family did before we went to total, radical
unschooling.
But you've got to remember, THIS list is about unschooling and how to get
there the best/fastest way.
Just because someone decides it won't work for them doesn't mean the list
should change to include all ideas. So I suppose people are going to feel
criticized when we all question them, but that isn't the point at all.
No one is critcizing you, just breaking down the IDEAS being discussed.
Anyhoo....if you haven't been to our group, it's run with unschooling
philosophies, but it IS inclusive. So we have radical unschoolers, school at
home types and some that are somewhere in between.
So I hope you don't feel funny about joining up with us sometime.
If you ask advice it WILL be with unschooling in mind, but we don't push
anything that somebody doesn't ask for. :)
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
structure that seems to go hand in hand with homeschooling, but complete
unschooling would not fit my family's situation either. "
And that's ok....that's what my family did before we went to total, radical
unschooling.
But you've got to remember, THIS list is about unschooling and how to get
there the best/fastest way.
Just because someone decides it won't work for them doesn't mean the list
should change to include all ideas. So I suppose people are going to feel
criticized when we all question them, but that isn't the point at all.
No one is critcizing you, just breaking down the IDEAS being discussed.
Anyhoo....if you haven't been to our group, it's run with unschooling
philosophies, but it IS inclusive. So we have radical unschoolers, school at
home types and some that are somewhere in between.
So I hope you don't feel funny about joining up with us sometime.
If you ask advice it WILL be with unschooling in mind, but we don't push
anything that somebody doesn't ask for. :)
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 4:10:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ms65442@... writes:
about the child's age. For him it is age appropriate behavior. He IS
behaving, like an 11 month old. Sometimes it is hard for adults to see that,
and sometimes all it takes are a few reminders.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ms65442@... writes:
> His dad is a great guy, heWhen I hear other people talking about these things I try to remind them
> just thinks a big part of parenting is teaching Rory how to behave.
about the child's age. For him it is age appropriate behavior. He IS
behaving, like an 11 month old. Sometimes it is hard for adults to see that,
and sometimes all it takes are a few reminders.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 2:10:48 AM, ms65442@... writes:
<< And therein lies the problem. He’s exploring his world and I feel that
when he’s reprimanded by his dad for something like making too much
noise banging spoons in the bathtub, or slapping the fish tank or some
other such non-dangerous activity, that if he continues to be
“corrected” or warned or reprimanded it will eventually curb his natural
enthusiasm and joy and sense of exploration. >>
Can you give him softer tub toys and distract him when he's slapping the fish
tank? Just coming up behind him and reminding him it will break and holding
his hands while you talk about fish? That kind of thing? Then you're not
saying "no" or "bad," you're just preventing the noisy and offensive (to his
dad, and the fish) action but still not shaming or removing him as is the
usual response of many, with babies.
<<His dad is a great guy, he
just thinks a big part of parenting is teaching Rory how to behave. I
think Rory will learn by our modeling of appropriate behavior.>>
He's right, and you're right, and Rory's right to be wanting to touch and
bang and try stuff out!
My mom used to throw away any noisy toy anyone gave us. I think it was
terrible. Instead of figuring out a way for us to be noisy, she just
prevented it, often, by removing the means. When Kirby was little I made up
to myself and the universe for that by purposely finding and encouraging
noisy stuff, but we went with a "good time!" and "not now" system so he got
to be really loud when it was a good time.
<< How would you deal with the unnecessary overcorrecting and
instruction? Or am I just thinking way too far into this whole issue,
seeing as Rory is still so young?>>
I think you could talk to your husband about replacing an object or activity
instead of forbidding one. And about saying "Yes, sometime" or "yes,
tomorrow" or "yes, but not on THIS bed, on the old bed" or "Yes, when you're
this tall" instead of no, no, no, no.
Sandra
<< And therein lies the problem. He’s exploring his world and I feel that
when he’s reprimanded by his dad for something like making too much
noise banging spoons in the bathtub, or slapping the fish tank or some
other such non-dangerous activity, that if he continues to be
“corrected” or warned or reprimanded it will eventually curb his natural
enthusiasm and joy and sense of exploration. >>
Can you give him softer tub toys and distract him when he's slapping the fish
tank? Just coming up behind him and reminding him it will break and holding
his hands while you talk about fish? That kind of thing? Then you're not
saying "no" or "bad," you're just preventing the noisy and offensive (to his
dad, and the fish) action but still not shaming or removing him as is the
usual response of many, with babies.
<<His dad is a great guy, he
just thinks a big part of parenting is teaching Rory how to behave. I
think Rory will learn by our modeling of appropriate behavior.>>
He's right, and you're right, and Rory's right to be wanting to touch and
bang and try stuff out!
My mom used to throw away any noisy toy anyone gave us. I think it was
terrible. Instead of figuring out a way for us to be noisy, she just
prevented it, often, by removing the means. When Kirby was little I made up
to myself and the universe for that by purposely finding and encouraging
noisy stuff, but we went with a "good time!" and "not now" system so he got
to be really loud when it was a good time.
<< How would you deal with the unnecessary overcorrecting and
instruction? Or am I just thinking way too far into this whole issue,
seeing as Rory is still so young?>>
I think you could talk to your husband about replacing an object or activity
instead of forbidding one. And about saying "Yes, sometime" or "yes,
tomorrow" or "yes, but not on THIS bed, on the old bed" or "Yes, when you're
this tall" instead of no, no, no, no.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 1:10:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ms65442@... writes:
<<
I’m probably getting myself too worked up about this. But I really want
to foster that trust in my son that so many of you have with your
children. And I want our environment to be one of unschooling from the
beginning. How would you deal with the unnecessary overcorrecting and
instruction? Or am I just thinking way too far into this whole issue,
seeing as Rory is still so young?
www.naturalchild.org,
lots of good articles on respecting children, attachment parenting etc. Also
great reads about where your child is developmentally (I found this sooooo
helpful when I was at my wits end how to respond to certain but totally age
appropriate behaviors) where the books titled "Your One Year Old", "Your
Two Year Old", etc. by the Giselle Institute. Since my first child was 1 yo
I knew that we would unschool, and I found that there was really no
transition for
me when they reached "school age" because we had spent those early years
developing relationships and respecting our children.
Kathy
ms65442@... writes:
<<
I’m probably getting myself too worked up about this. But I really want
to foster that trust in my son that so many of you have with your
children. And I want our environment to be one of unschooling from the
beginning. How would you deal with the unnecessary overcorrecting and
instruction? Or am I just thinking way too far into this whole issue,
seeing as Rory is still so young?
>>When my kids were little I found most helpful websites like
www.naturalchild.org,
lots of good articles on respecting children, attachment parenting etc. Also
great reads about where your child is developmentally (I found this sooooo
helpful when I was at my wits end how to respond to certain but totally age
appropriate behaviors) where the books titled "Your One Year Old", "Your
Two Year Old", etc. by the Giselle Institute. Since my first child was 1 yo
I knew that we would unschool, and I found that there was really no
transition for
me when they reached "school age" because we had spent those early years
developing relationships and respecting our children.
Kathy
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 12:21:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Okay so you are listening and learning and that's what this list is about.
I
understand where some people are not ready to unschool, I think it's fear
really. >>
Gee, there's an article in HEM's March/April issue about this VERY topic.
(imagine that) :)
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< Okay so you are listening and learning and that's what this list is about.
I
understand where some people are not ready to unschool, I think it's fear
really. >>
Gee, there's an article in HEM's March/April issue about this VERY topic.
(imagine that) :)
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 12:21:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< That is a REALLY good idea and I bet Grace Llewelyn would be interested
in somebody actually doing that! It would be really useful in and of
itself, but great advertising for her, for her book. Mutually
beneficial results. If there was a national organization devoted to
promoting unschooling - it would be a REALLY wonderful service for them
to provide. >>
There is an unschooling teen here in Pensacola that plans to do just that.
She wants to start an unschooling zine based mainly on Graces' book, to
educate people about unschooling and help them see into the lives of
unschoolers and show there ARE choices. Her goal is to spread it around
locally to reach the general public. Brave soul!
She's written Graces secretary to ask permission, I don't know if she'll hear
back.
I think it's a really great thing and I hope she comes up with something
really phenomenol!
Maybe she'd do a brochure too.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< That is a REALLY good idea and I bet Grace Llewelyn would be interested
in somebody actually doing that! It would be really useful in and of
itself, but great advertising for her, for her book. Mutually
beneficial results. If there was a national organization devoted to
promoting unschooling - it would be a REALLY wonderful service for them
to provide. >>
There is an unschooling teen here in Pensacola that plans to do just that.
She wants to start an unschooling zine based mainly on Graces' book, to
educate people about unschooling and help them see into the lives of
unschoolers and show there ARE choices. Her goal is to spread it around
locally to reach the general public. Brave soul!
She's written Graces secretary to ask permission, I don't know if she'll hear
back.
I think it's a really great thing and I hope she comes up with something
really phenomenol!
Maybe she'd do a brochure too.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 1:20:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I really want to unschool. And I believe we will get there. When WE are
ready. Does that mean it isn't ok for me to talk about the process except
for when we are stepping forward? It just doesn't make sense. >>
Sure.
But if you're going to argue against the very things we're offering, or feel
attacked when UNschooling advice is offered, it's probably just better to
read for a while.
It just disrupts the list unecessarily.
Because at this point unschooling is not being discussed....posting styles
are.
And we go through this every couple of months, it gets old.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< I really want to unschool. And I believe we will get there. When WE are
ready. Does that mean it isn't ok for me to talk about the process except
for when we are stepping forward? It just doesn't make sense. >>
Sure.
But if you're going to argue against the very things we're offering, or feel
attacked when UNschooling advice is offered, it's probably just better to
read for a while.
It just disrupts the list unecessarily.
Because at this point unschooling is not being discussed....posting styles
are.
And we go through this every couple of months, it gets old.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 3:01:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I can see exactly what you all are talking about now. Kind of a lightbulb
moment I guess. >>
No, I don't think you're really understanding it at all Glena.
I can see why you think that, but what we're TRYING so hard to explain is
that it is all about unschooling and helping people avoid anything that isn't
unschooling.
It's not just for die hard unschoolers, how else would I have learned and
learned and learned until I "got it"?
The point is, DON'T defend what is NOT unschooling on an unschooling list.
Your ideas will be torn apart. Not you, not you personally at all. Your IDEAS.
If people want to learn, they ask, others answer and you take what you like
from the answers.
If you want to defend things that are NOT unschooling, it isn't going to fly
here. That's all.
It's totally about helping people get to unschooling.
But they aren't going to get to unschooling by holding on to SCHOOL!!!
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< I can see exactly what you all are talking about now. Kind of a lightbulb
moment I guess. >>
No, I don't think you're really understanding it at all Glena.
I can see why you think that, but what we're TRYING so hard to explain is
that it is all about unschooling and helping people avoid anything that isn't
unschooling.
It's not just for die hard unschoolers, how else would I have learned and
learned and learned until I "got it"?
The point is, DON'T defend what is NOT unschooling on an unschooling list.
Your ideas will be torn apart. Not you, not you personally at all. Your IDEAS.
If people want to learn, they ask, others answer and you take what you like
from the answers.
If you want to defend things that are NOT unschooling, it isn't going to fly
here. That's all.
It's totally about helping people get to unschooling.
But they aren't going to get to unschooling by holding on to SCHOOL!!!
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 4:06:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< <<In what ways are we to influence our children? At all? >> >>
YES! Of course we do, just by how we live every day of our lives.
A parent that is very curious about the world around them, interested in
whatever comes along, passionate about their own interests, passionate about
learning in general is the best kind of unschooler in my opinion.
My own attitude about learning is a huge factor.
I often start projects that interest me and in only moments I have four
smaller people asking "what are you doing Mom?" "how does that work?" and
such.
I believe it is our job, our duty, to expose children to as much of the
world/people/ideas/beliefs as possible.
How can they find their passions if they don't even know what is out there?
If you have a math phobia or any other wall in your learning due to pressure
from school (or any other bad experience) I think it is your job to get over
it.
To find ways to make that topic joyful to you. Explore things with the
abandon of a toddler, with ZEAL! That has made the biggest difference in our
own household...MY attitude about learning and exploring the whole wide world.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< <<In what ways are we to influence our children? At all? >> >>
YES! Of course we do, just by how we live every day of our lives.
A parent that is very curious about the world around them, interested in
whatever comes along, passionate about their own interests, passionate about
learning in general is the best kind of unschooler in my opinion.
My own attitude about learning is a huge factor.
I often start projects that interest me and in only moments I have four
smaller people asking "what are you doing Mom?" "how does that work?" and
such.
I believe it is our job, our duty, to expose children to as much of the
world/people/ideas/beliefs as possible.
How can they find their passions if they don't even know what is out there?
If you have a math phobia or any other wall in your learning due to pressure
from school (or any other bad experience) I think it is your job to get over
it.
To find ways to make that topic joyful to you. Explore things with the
abandon of a toddler, with ZEAL! That has made the biggest difference in our
own household...MY attitude about learning and exploring the whole wide world.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
Sorcha
Try to think of it this way: suppose you're about to have a baby and you
join a breastfeeding list. In the intro, you announce how excited you
are and that you plan to do a combination of breastfeeding and
bottlefeeding, because you know breastfeeding is wonderful but it's not
quite right for your family and your husband wants to feed the baby too,
etc etc. So your plan is to breastfeed during the day while your
husband is at work and then when he gets home, you plan to spend some
time to yourself while he watches and feeds the baby, and at night
you'll alternate. One night you'll breastfeed and the next night you'll
let your husband get up and bottlefeed the baby.
Now imagine what the breastfeeding mothers are likely to say. That you
can't introduce any other type of nipple if your goal is breastfeeding,
that you won't build up your milk supply if you use formula, that it
will be harmful to the breastfeeding relationship to breastfeed one
night and let your husband bottlefeed the next (not to mention how much
your breasts will hurt when you wake up after the second night!).
You could go on and on about how they have no right to judge your
choices and that you know what's right for your family and that there
are lots of people who use a combination of breast and bottle. And
they'll still tell you that what you're planning to do is dangerous to
the breastfeeding relationship, will probably fail, and within six weeks
or sooner you're going to be saying breastfeeding didn't work for you
and you're completely bottlefeeding. That's what's going on with this
list. Alternating between curriculum and unschooling is as damaging to
unschooling as alternating between formula and breastmilk is to
breastfeeding. And having that curriculum "just in case unschooling
doesn't work" is as damaging as having bottles filled with formula "just
in case you don't make enough milk".
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
join a breastfeeding list. In the intro, you announce how excited you
are and that you plan to do a combination of breastfeeding and
bottlefeeding, because you know breastfeeding is wonderful but it's not
quite right for your family and your husband wants to feed the baby too,
etc etc. So your plan is to breastfeed during the day while your
husband is at work and then when he gets home, you plan to spend some
time to yourself while he watches and feeds the baby, and at night
you'll alternate. One night you'll breastfeed and the next night you'll
let your husband get up and bottlefeed the baby.
Now imagine what the breastfeeding mothers are likely to say. That you
can't introduce any other type of nipple if your goal is breastfeeding,
that you won't build up your milk supply if you use formula, that it
will be harmful to the breastfeeding relationship to breastfeed one
night and let your husband bottlefeed the next (not to mention how much
your breasts will hurt when you wake up after the second night!).
You could go on and on about how they have no right to judge your
choices and that you know what's right for your family and that there
are lots of people who use a combination of breast and bottle. And
they'll still tell you that what you're planning to do is dangerous to
the breastfeeding relationship, will probably fail, and within six weeks
or sooner you're going to be saying breastfeeding didn't work for you
and you're completely bottlefeeding. That's what's going on with this
list. Alternating between curriculum and unschooling is as damaging to
unschooling as alternating between formula and breastmilk is to
breastfeeding. And having that curriculum "just in case unschooling
doesn't work" is as damaging as having bottles filled with formula "just
in case you don't make enough milk".
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
She'll hear - it'll probably take quite a while, tell her to be patient.
-pam
-pam
On Sunday, April 6, 2003, at 05:10 PM, starsuncloud@... wrote:
> She's written Graces secretary to ask permission, I don't know if
> she'll hear
> back.
Michelle~ms65442
This was a great analogy Sorcha, thank you!
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: Sorcha [mailto:sorcha-aisling@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 6:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] new member intro.
<< Alternating between curriculum and unschooling is as damaging to
unschooling as alternating between formula and breastmilk is to
breastfeeding. And having that curriculum "just in case unschooling
doesn't work" is as damaging as having bottles filled with formula "just
in case you don't make enough milk".>>
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: Sorcha [mailto:sorcha-aisling@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 6:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] new member intro.
<< Alternating between curriculum and unschooling is as damaging to
unschooling as alternating between formula and breastmilk is to
breastfeeding. And having that curriculum "just in case unschooling
doesn't work" is as damaging as having bottles filled with formula "just
in case you don't make enough milk".>>
Michelle~ms65442
Yes, I agree that most things can be solved by a change in the
environment, and that’s what I generally try to do.
I like the idea of having a few definite “no’s” for Dan to work with. I
don’t want to undermine him as a parent completely and at the same time
I want Rory to feel welcome to explore and learn about his world. Thank
you!
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: Sorcha [mailto:sorcha-aisling@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 4:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<<Ask his dad to come up with one or two definite "no"s and let the rest
go. >>
environment, and that’s what I generally try to do.
I like the idea of having a few definite “no’s” for Dan to work with. I
don’t want to undermine him as a parent completely and at the same time
I want Rory to feel welcome to explore and learn about his world. Thank
you!
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: Sorcha [mailto:sorcha-aisling@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 4:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<<Ask his dad to come up with one or two definite "no"s and let the rest
go. >>
Michelle~ms65442
What did you use to get his attention in situations where it wasn’t
immediately dangerous but was still something you had to stop him from?
Right now I’m using redirection most of the time, but still find myself
repeating “No” way too many times a day. I’m making a conscious effort
to eliminate things in our home I have to say “no” to and I still find
it’s too common a word in my vocabulary.
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 4:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<< Our "NO!" was
to prevent harm to Cameron or to others, fish included.
~Kelly>>
immediately dangerous but was still something you had to stop him from?
Right now I’m using redirection most of the time, but still find myself
repeating “No” way too many times a day. I’m making a conscious effort
to eliminate things in our home I have to say “no” to and I still find
it’s too common a word in my vocabulary.
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 4:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<< Our "NO!" was
to prevent harm to Cameron or to others, fish included.
~Kelly>>
Michelle~ms65442
Hmmm… It won’t work to give him softer tub toys – he gets things from
the rest of the house and takes them to the bathroom to drop in or bang
on the side of the tub. If he starts doing that I could replace the
loud toy with a softer one, but I’m certain that would lead to a
meltdown. I can’t keep the bathroom closed because that’s where the cat
litter is.
And with the fish tank he SCREAMS if you try to hold his hands. But I
could pick him up and hold him a few feet away, he’d probably be ok with
that if I remained standing while we talked about the fish.
But theses were just a few examples, there are many more that I can
incorporate your idea of a compromise with. And that would probably be
the best solution here.
Thank you for saying, “He's right, and you're right, and Rory's right to
be wanting to touch and
bang and try stuff out!” I often find myself on a quest to be “right”
and forget that if Dan is right it doesn’t necessarily mean I’m wrong!
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<<I think you could talk to your husband about replacing an object or
activity
instead of forbidding one. And about saying "Yes, sometime" or "yes,
tomorrow" or "yes, but not on THIS bed, on the old bed" or "Yes, when
you're
this tall" instead of no, no, no, no.>>
the rest of the house and takes them to the bathroom to drop in or bang
on the side of the tub. If he starts doing that I could replace the
loud toy with a softer one, but I’m certain that would lead to a
meltdown. I can’t keep the bathroom closed because that’s where the cat
litter is.
And with the fish tank he SCREAMS if you try to hold his hands. But I
could pick him up and hold him a few feet away, he’d probably be ok with
that if I remained standing while we talked about the fish.
But theses were just a few examples, there are many more that I can
incorporate your idea of a compromise with. And that would probably be
the best solution here.
Thank you for saying, “He's right, and you're right, and Rory's right to
be wanting to touch and
bang and try stuff out!” I often find myself on a quest to be “right”
and forget that if Dan is right it doesn’t necessarily mean I’m wrong!
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<<I think you could talk to your husband about replacing an object or
activity
instead of forbidding one. And about saying "Yes, sometime" or "yes,
tomorrow" or "yes, but not on THIS bed, on the old bed" or "Yes, when
you're
this tall" instead of no, no, no, no.>>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/03 11:09:14 PM, ms65442@... writes:
<< If he starts doing that I could replace the
loud toy with a softer one, but I’m certain that would lead to a
meltdown. >>
If the thing you hold out is attractive, he'll drop what he has to reach for
what you have.
That's the best baby-trick I ever learned. If a baby has a knife or scissors
or something, don't grab the thing or his hand. Offer him something new and
more colorful or squeaky or whatever, and he will gently let go of the ice
pick or gun without another thought to take the rubber duck.
Or whatever.
Sandra
<< If he starts doing that I could replace the
loud toy with a softer one, but I’m certain that would lead to a
meltdown. >>
If the thing you hold out is attractive, he'll drop what he has to reach for
what you have.
That's the best baby-trick I ever learned. If a baby has a knife or scissors
or something, don't grab the thing or his hand. Offer him something new and
more colorful or squeaky or whatever, and he will gently let go of the ice
pick or gun without another thought to take the rubber duck.
Or whatever.
Sandra
MARK and JULIE SOLICH
If you have a math phobia or any other wall in your learning due to pressure
from school (or any other bad experience) I think it is your job to get
over
it.
To find ways to make that topic joyful to you.
Ren
I have always had a fear of math. I realized that this was not going to be
helpful to my kids so I have been rediscovering math and it has been
FANTASTIC! Now the house is full of puzzles and pattern blocks and
interesting math books, that I am enjoying! Now that my fear has gone, I
feel completely free to let my kids discover math their own way and in their
own time because they will without all the hang ups and fear of failing.
You can't trust when you are full of fear.
Julie
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
from school (or any other bad experience) I think it is your job to get
over
it.
To find ways to make that topic joyful to you.
Ren
I have always had a fear of math. I realized that this was not going to be
helpful to my kids so I have been rediscovering math and it has been
FANTASTIC! Now the house is full of puzzles and pattern blocks and
interesting math books, that I am enjoying! Now that my fear has gone, I
feel completely free to let my kids discover math their own way and in their
own time because they will without all the hang ups and fear of failing.
You can't trust when you are full of fear.
Julie
>the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>email to:
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sunday, April 6, 2003, at 10:46 PM, MARK and JULIE SOLICH wrote:
math?
Where did the fear come from in the first place?
I'm SO excited to hear this, Julie. GOOD NEWS about this subject for a
change!!!
-pam
> I have always had a fear of math. I realized that this was not goingHow did you get yourself over the hump of even trying to rediscover
> to be
> helpful to my kids so I have been rediscovering math and it has been
> FANTASTIC! Now the house is full of puzzles and pattern blocks and
> interesting math books, that I am enjoying! Now that my fear has gone,
> I
> feel completely free to let my kids discover math their own way and in
> their
> own time because they will without all the hang ups and fear of
> failing.
> You can't trust when you are full of fear.
>
math?
Where did the fear come from in the first place?
I'm SO excited to hear this, Julie. GOOD NEWS about this subject for a
change!!!
-pam
Mary
From: "Michelle~ms65442" <ms65442@...>
<<What did you use to get his attention in situations where it wasn’t
immediately dangerous but was still something you had to stop him from?
Right now I’m using redirection most of the time, but still find myself
repeating “No” way too many times a day. I’m making a conscious effort
to eliminate things in our home I have to say “no” to and I still find
it’s too common a word in my vocabulary.>>
For some people it's real hard not to automatically say no when you see a
child do something that you want them to stop. Probably most of us grew up
with no's and hear it from so many others every day. Ever go to the grocery
store after school hours and see the moms with their kids??!!
One way I got myself out of automatically doing it was to talk about what
the child was doing. Instead of just saying no and then give an explanation.
Like oh sweetie are you looking at the fish and trying to get their
attention? Are you playing drums on the fishy tank today? Anything so you
get your childs attention without a no. Then maybe you can put some fish
flakes in the lid of the container and help your son feed the fish. Then you
could hug him while you watch them eat and he can't bang on the tank. Which
could lead you to asking him if he's hungry or he could come and help you
make something because now you are hungry too. Or how about seeing some
other fish and go find a book or plastic fish to play with. Kids are pretty
easily distracted at a young age. And kids listen so much better when they
don't hear no all the time.
Mary B
<<What did you use to get his attention in situations where it wasn’t
immediately dangerous but was still something you had to stop him from?
Right now I’m using redirection most of the time, but still find myself
repeating “No” way too many times a day. I’m making a conscious effort
to eliminate things in our home I have to say “no” to and I still find
it’s too common a word in my vocabulary.>>
For some people it's real hard not to automatically say no when you see a
child do something that you want them to stop. Probably most of us grew up
with no's and hear it from so many others every day. Ever go to the grocery
store after school hours and see the moms with their kids??!!
One way I got myself out of automatically doing it was to talk about what
the child was doing. Instead of just saying no and then give an explanation.
Like oh sweetie are you looking at the fish and trying to get their
attention? Are you playing drums on the fishy tank today? Anything so you
get your childs attention without a no. Then maybe you can put some fish
flakes in the lid of the container and help your son feed the fish. Then you
could hug him while you watch them eat and he can't bang on the tank. Which
could lead you to asking him if he's hungry or he could come and help you
make something because now you are hungry too. Or how about seeing some
other fish and go find a book or plastic fish to play with. Kids are pretty
easily distracted at a young age. And kids listen so much better when they
don't hear no all the time.
Mary B
Michelle~ms65442
I know! I’ll offer him food! Food ALWAYS wins around here. ☺
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 10:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an infant
<<Offer him something new and
more colorful or squeaky or whatever, and he will gently let go of the ice
pick or gun without another thought to take the rubber duck.
Or whatever.>>
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 10:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an infant
<<Offer him something new and
more colorful or squeaky or whatever, and he will gently let go of the ice
pick or gun without another thought to take the rubber duck.
Or whatever.>>
Michelle~ms65442
Ah, yes, if I'm *already* having a running narrative/conversation I
won't just break out into "NO! No! No!" as it would be unnatural,
conversationally. Very good idea, thank you Mary.
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary [mailto:mummy124@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 11:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<<One way I got myself out of automatically doing it was to talk about
what
the child was doing. Instead of just saying no and then give an
explanation.
Like oh sweetie are you looking at the fish and trying to get their
attention? Are you playing drums on the fishy tank today? Anything so
you
get your childs attention without a no. Then maybe you can put some fish
flakes in the lid of the container and help your son feed the fish. Then
you
could hug him while you watch them eat and he can't bang on the tank.
Which
could lead you to asking him if he's hungry or he could come and help
you
make something because now you are hungry too. Or how about seeing some
other fish and go find a book or plastic fish to play with. Kids are
pretty
easily distracted at a young age. And kids listen so much better when
they
don't hear no all the time.>>
won't just break out into "NO! No! No!" as it would be unnatural,
conversationally. Very good idea, thank you Mary.
Michelle, SF Bay Area
Mommy to the bright-eyed Rory Daniel, 5.3.02
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary [mailto:mummy124@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 11:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<<One way I got myself out of automatically doing it was to talk about
what
the child was doing. Instead of just saying no and then give an
explanation.
Like oh sweetie are you looking at the fish and trying to get their
attention? Are you playing drums on the fishy tank today? Anything so
you
get your childs attention without a no. Then maybe you can put some fish
flakes in the lid of the container and help your son feed the fish. Then
you
could hug him while you watch them eat and he can't bang on the tank.
Which
could lead you to asking him if he's hungry or he could come and help
you
make something because now you are hungry too. Or how about seeing some
other fish and go find a book or plastic fish to play with. Kids are
pretty
easily distracted at a young age. And kids listen so much better when
they
don't hear no all the time.>>
Michelle~ms65442
The link made it to my bookmarks, thank you Kathy. And I really liked
your description of how the transition to unschooling not being one at
all. I feel a bit silly at times looking into all this when Rory is
still so young, but I’d rather start now than later.
Michelle
-----Original Message-----
From: Natrlmama@... [mailto:Natrlmama@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 3:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<< Since my first child was 1 yo
I knew that we would unschool, and I found that there was really no
transition for
me when they reached "school age" because we had spent those early years
developing relationships and respecting our children>>
your description of how the transition to unschooling not being one at
all. I feel a bit silly at times looking into all this when Rory is
still so young, but I’d rather start now than later.
Michelle
-----Original Message-----
From: Natrlmama@... [mailto:Natrlmama@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 3:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Overcorrection/instruction with an
infant
<< Since my first child was 1 yo
I knew that we would unschool, and I found that there was really no
transition for
me when they reached "school age" because we had spent those early years
developing relationships and respecting our children>>
Bronwen
> From: "Michelle~ms65442" <ms65442@...>I was so trying to lurk! but here it goes :-)
>
> <<What did you use to get his attention in situations where it wasn’t
> immediately dangerous but was still something you had to stop him from?
> Right now I’m using redirection most of the time, but still find myself
> repeating “No” way too many times a day. I’m making a conscious effort
> to eliminate things in our home I have to say “no” to and I still find
> it’s too common a word in my vocabulary.>>
>
We (a radical unschooling family) have a rule- if it is out- it is FAIR
GAME.
We didnt/dont say no to my baby. The trust thing that everyone is always
talking about on this list works for babies too. You might be surprized to
know my baby even explored knives and scissors. And just tonight was
cutting up a bunch of hard boiled eggs with a seven inch steel knife (he is
2.5 now). They care even more for their safety than you do- and they are
ALWAYS with themselves! They also can know themselves and their abilities
and interests WAY WAY more than this society gives them credit for.
(we can train this awareness out of them - we pretty much "school" (direct,
coerse, control, "teach", mistrust, etc.) our babies in this society).
about the fish tank- you can try all the distraction techniques - or you can
just pay no attention and when he has learned enough from it, he will stop-
almost ALWAYS quicker than trying to coerce him to stop.
However, you might be dealing with him knowing he gets negative (NO NO) or
positive ( look at this sweety!) attention from the behavior, in which case,
it will take him banging on the fish tank and looking to you, and you
showing no response (just pleasantly minding your own business), and him
banging MORE, and looking to you, and you still minding your own business
(thinking to yourself "this shock is nothing compared to bringing them home
from the fish store", and maybe him banging more, until he starts to
experience it without thinking of you- and then he will stop. he will move
on to new things to learn about.
I wish I had more time to write..
OH! you might enjoy the book:
"The Continuum Concept" Jean Liedloff
it really is an unschooling book too! oh and there is a web site and e-mail
list for it too that you might enjoy-- lots of people there learning to
trust their babies!
http://www.continuum-concept.org/
OK- I might as well sound really crazy and send you to a link where you can
learn about babies who don't wear diapers!
http://www.natural-wisdom.com/
Show and tell girl,
Bronwen
dd (5-23-88)
ds (8-16-92)
ds (9-22-00)