Intro and big thanks!!
24hrmom
I did take the list intro to heart and have been reading here for a few months, so the shock has worn off! <g> My husband and I have three great kids: Joseph (11), Alyssa (almost 9), and Michael (5). I would like to thank, from the bottom of my heart, all the long-time participants on this list for their wonderful insights and thoughtful discussions. Many of the discussions (and repeat discussions!) over the past few months have really resonated with me: TV/video games; special needs; bedtimes; sibling fighting; chores; food; not to mention learning! And I have been checking out many of the book recommendations . if the library staff ever look over the list of books I have out at any given time, I'm sure they'd be rather bewildered!
My husband and I have been making this journey on our own, albeit slowly, since our first child was born. It started with not believing "the experts" who said eating and sleeping schedules are good, that meltdowns are about control, that he was just manipulating me, etc. I brushed them aside, but school and work outside the home were a-given, just permanent features of the landscape to be worked around. But, what is it they say, if things don't seem to be working as you expect, check your premises? (Actually, I picked that up from Atlas Shrugged many years ago and it has served me well so far <g>). So, I ditched work three years ago, and school last year . or more rightly I told the kids I found out there was this thing called homeschooling and they all jumped at the offer to stay home! I may *think* I'm driving, though truly, since they were born they have been dragging me through this journey, but I just love being along for the ride!
They left school March 2002 - they just didn't return after March Break. For weeks they deschooled and I read about homeschooling. I did try to introduce a bit of structure (unit studies, math & spelling workbooks) somewhere around May, but that didn't last more than 3-4 weeks. Can you believe it?? They flatly refused to stop their own learning activities to humour me! LOL! So began the next leg of my journey into unschooling, which thankfully brought me here.
And, once I'd begun to trust the kids more and more to take control of their learning, I couldn't help but realize they could be trusted to take control of other aspects of their lives . TV, video games, sleeping, food etc. You guys have helped me so much to stretch that last bit. It hasn't been a "big" change for us, just a bit more loosening of the reins. Early on I subscribed to the "pick your battles" mantra and I was *very* selective. I could often understand why they were behaving in certain ways, that they were reactions to outside situations/forces, so our "battles" were relatively few and it just meant redrawing a few lines (or more rightly, erasing them). There was no need for an "announcement" of a new lifestyle to the kids, just a bit of surprise on their part when they nudged a line and it was no longer there; just an honest discussion with Mom or Dad. We realized that for us it really comes down to principles, not rules (and a good chunk of deschooling on our part!).
So there's a bit of background for my intro. I hope to share many of the interesting stories and insights I have gathered over the past year on the various topics of "radical" unschooling as I try to contribute more in the discussions.
And thanks again to everyone for taking the time and effort to participate on this wonderful list!
Pam L.
I guess I'll use my last initial to help distinguish between the various Pams here. Funny, I've never had that problem before!
PS I'm planning a family road trip in August for the conference. I've already MapBlast-ed it ... 13hrs 41mins to the hotel ... no problem! Here's hoping I can pull all the details together.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My husband and I have been making this journey on our own, albeit slowly, since our first child was born. It started with not believing "the experts" who said eating and sleeping schedules are good, that meltdowns are about control, that he was just manipulating me, etc. I brushed them aside, but school and work outside the home were a-given, just permanent features of the landscape to be worked around. But, what is it they say, if things don't seem to be working as you expect, check your premises? (Actually, I picked that up from Atlas Shrugged many years ago and it has served me well so far <g>). So, I ditched work three years ago, and school last year . or more rightly I told the kids I found out there was this thing called homeschooling and they all jumped at the offer to stay home! I may *think* I'm driving, though truly, since they were born they have been dragging me through this journey, but I just love being along for the ride!
They left school March 2002 - they just didn't return after March Break. For weeks they deschooled and I read about homeschooling. I did try to introduce a bit of structure (unit studies, math & spelling workbooks) somewhere around May, but that didn't last more than 3-4 weeks. Can you believe it?? They flatly refused to stop their own learning activities to humour me! LOL! So began the next leg of my journey into unschooling, which thankfully brought me here.
And, once I'd begun to trust the kids more and more to take control of their learning, I couldn't help but realize they could be trusted to take control of other aspects of their lives . TV, video games, sleeping, food etc. You guys have helped me so much to stretch that last bit. It hasn't been a "big" change for us, just a bit more loosening of the reins. Early on I subscribed to the "pick your battles" mantra and I was *very* selective. I could often understand why they were behaving in certain ways, that they were reactions to outside situations/forces, so our "battles" were relatively few and it just meant redrawing a few lines (or more rightly, erasing them). There was no need for an "announcement" of a new lifestyle to the kids, just a bit of surprise on their part when they nudged a line and it was no longer there; just an honest discussion with Mom or Dad. We realized that for us it really comes down to principles, not rules (and a good chunk of deschooling on our part!).
So there's a bit of background for my intro. I hope to share many of the interesting stories and insights I have gathered over the past year on the various topics of "radical" unschooling as I try to contribute more in the discussions.
And thanks again to everyone for taking the time and effort to participate on this wonderful list!
Pam L.
I guess I'll use my last initial to help distinguish between the various Pams here. Funny, I've never had that problem before!
PS I'm planning a family road trip in August for the conference. I've already MapBlast-ed it ... 13hrs 41mins to the hotel ... no problem! Here's hoping I can pull all the details together.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/4/2003 9:13:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
24hrmom@... writes:
I'm really happy for you---and I'm glad the "shock" has worn off!
Welcome to the"tribe", Pam L!
And I'm SO excited you'll be joining us in August! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
24hrmom@... writes:
> And, once I'd begun to trust the kids more and more to take control of theirWhole post, major cool! Just the "pick-me-up" I needed to hear today!
> learning, I couldn't help but realize they could be trusted to take control
> of other aspects of their lives . TV, video games, sleeping, food etc. You
> guys have helped me so much to stretch that last bit. It hasn't been a
> "big" change for us, just a bit more loosening of the reins. Early on I
> subscribed to the "pick your battles" mantra and I was *very* selective. I
> could often understand why they were behaving in certain ways, that they
> were reactions to outside situations/forces, so our "battles" were
> relatively few and it just meant redrawing a few lines (or more rightly,
> erasing them). There was no need for an "announcement" of a new lifestyle
> to the kids, just a bit of surprise on their part when they nudged a line
> and it was no longer there; just an honest discussion with Mom or Dad. We
> realized that for us it really comes down to principles, not rules (and a
> good chunk of deschooling on our part!).
>
I'm really happy for you---and I'm glad the "shock" has worn off!
Welcome to the"tribe", Pam L!
And I'm SO excited you'll be joining us in August! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/4/03 9:13:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
24hrmom@... writes:
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
24hrmom@... writes:
> And thanks again to everyone for taking the time and effort to participateYEA!!...another unschooling Pam, welcome to the list.
> on this wonderful list!
>
>
>
> Pam L.
>
> I guess I'll use my last initial to help distinguish between the various
> Pams here. Funny, I've never had that problem before!
>
>
>
>
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/4/03 7:13:00 AM, 24hrmom@... writes:
<< But, what is it they say, if things don't seem to be working as you
expect, check your premises? (Actually, I picked that up from Atlas Shrugged
many years ago and it has served me well so far <g>). >>
WOW!!
That is the first time I've ever known anyone to use anything from Atlas
Shrugged to make them better parents! That was a hard thing to accomplish,
given the characters and philosophy of that book, and I commend you heartily!!
Sandra the Liberal, who had to read and analyze that book for a class in high
school (but we also read Siddhartha, so I recovered nicely)
<< But, what is it they say, if things don't seem to be working as you
expect, check your premises? (Actually, I picked that up from Atlas Shrugged
many years ago and it has served me well so far <g>). >>
WOW!!
That is the first time I've ever known anyone to use anything from Atlas
Shrugged to make them better parents! That was a hard thing to accomplish,
given the characters and philosophy of that book, and I commend you heartily!!
Sandra the Liberal, who had to read and analyze that book for a class in high
school (but we also read Siddhartha, so I recovered nicely)
24hrmom
LOL!!
I don't know if you recall, but there is a brief passage in Altas Shrugged about a homschooling mother with two young sons - she has chosen raising a family as her "career":
"They did not have the look she had seen in the children of the outer world - a look of fear, half-secretive, half-sneering, the look of a child's defense against an adult, the look of a being in the process of discovering that he is hearing lies and of learning to feel hatred. The two boys had the open, joyous, friendly confidence of kittens who do not expect to get hurt, they had an innocently natural, non-boastful sense of their own value and as innocent a trust in any stranger's ability to recognize it, they had the eager curiousity that would venture anywhere with the certainty that life held nothing unworthy of or closed to discovery, and they looked as if, should they encounter malevolence, they would reject it contemptuously, not as dangerous, but as stupid, they would not accept it in bruised resignation as the law of existence."
I was given a copy by my father to read the summer I was 14, presented as kind of a right of passage. I didn't have to analyze it in school, so I surely may have interpreted it differently! <g> I have read it a few times, but it's fresh in my mind since my husband, who does not like reading, just listened to it on CD. I find the message I take from it positive (though I know people who find the book depressing), a reminder to think for myself, not to follow blindly what society says is "right", and to always work to the best of my ability, no matter what task I undertake.
And I have a couple Thich Nhat Hanh books out from the library, thanks to recommendations on this list!
Pam.
I don't know if you recall, but there is a brief passage in Altas Shrugged about a homschooling mother with two young sons - she has chosen raising a family as her "career":
"They did not have the look she had seen in the children of the outer world - a look of fear, half-secretive, half-sneering, the look of a child's defense against an adult, the look of a being in the process of discovering that he is hearing lies and of learning to feel hatred. The two boys had the open, joyous, friendly confidence of kittens who do not expect to get hurt, they had an innocently natural, non-boastful sense of their own value and as innocent a trust in any stranger's ability to recognize it, they had the eager curiousity that would venture anywhere with the certainty that life held nothing unworthy of or closed to discovery, and they looked as if, should they encounter malevolence, they would reject it contemptuously, not as dangerous, but as stupid, they would not accept it in bruised resignation as the law of existence."
I was given a copy by my father to read the summer I was 14, presented as kind of a right of passage. I didn't have to analyze it in school, so I surely may have interpreted it differently! <g> I have read it a few times, but it's fresh in my mind since my husband, who does not like reading, just listened to it on CD. I find the message I take from it positive (though I know people who find the book depressing), a reminder to think for myself, not to follow blindly what society says is "right", and to always work to the best of my ability, no matter what task I undertake.
And I have a couple Thich Nhat Hanh books out from the library, thanks to recommendations on this list!
Pam.
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Intro and big thanks!!
In a message dated 4/4/03 7:13:00 AM, 24hrmom@... writes:
<< But, what is it they say, if things don't seem to be working as you
expect, check your premises? (Actually, I picked that up from Atlas Shrugged
many years ago and it has served me well so far <g>). >>
WOW!!
That is the first time I've ever known anyone to use anything from Atlas
Shrugged to make them better parents! That was a hard thing to accomplish,
given the characters and philosophy of that book, and I commend you heartily!!
Sandra the Liberal, who had to read and analyze that book for a class in high
school (but we also read Siddhartha, so I recovered nicely)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
LOL -- I agree. Although I think what Ayn Rand's books gave me was also
a strong internal sense that I am MAKING choices - that I do have
choices. I think lots of people don't really feel that way. Gee, maybe
it is 13 years of schooling in which the only way to be content and
happy was to NOT strain against the many rules and to accept it that
much of life means not having any choices. Most people seem to have
gotten that message loud and clear - what is really interesting is that
some of us did not.
-pam
a strong internal sense that I am MAKING choices - that I do have
choices. I think lots of people don't really feel that way. Gee, maybe
it is 13 years of schooling in which the only way to be content and
happy was to NOT strain against the many rules and to accept it that
much of life means not having any choices. Most people seem to have
gotten that message loud and clear - what is really interesting is that
some of us did not.
-pam
On Friday, April 4, 2003, at 08:37 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
> That is the first time I've ever known anyone to use anything from
> Atlas
> Shrugged to make them better parents! That was a hard thing to
> accomplish,
> given the characters and philosophy of that book, and I commend you
> heartily!!
[email protected]
what a great intro and inspiration!
Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma *
Hi Pam L. and welcome. I loved your whole post describing your journey to
where you are now. I look forward to meeting you in August!
Life is good.
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."
~ Thich Nhat Hanh
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
where you are now. I look forward to meeting you in August!
Life is good.
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."
~ Thich Nhat Hanh
>From: "24hrmom" <24hrmom@...>_________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Intro and big thanks!!
>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:08:13 -0500
>
>I did take the list intro to heart and have been reading here for a few
>months, so the shock has worn off! <g> My husband and I have three great
>kids: Joseph (11), Alyssa (almost 9), and Michael (5). I would like to
>thank, from the bottom of my heart, all the long-time participants on this
>list for their wonderful insights and thoughtful discussions. Many of the
>discussions (and repeat discussions!) over the past few months have really
>resonated with me: TV/video games; special needs; bedtimes; sibling
>fighting; chores; food; not to mention learning! And I have been checking
>out many of the book recommendations . if the library staff ever look over
>the list of books I have out at any given time, I'm sure they'd be rather
>bewildered!
>
>
>
>My husband and I have been making this journey on our own, albeit slowly,
>since our first child was born. It started with not believing "the experts"
>who said eating and sleeping schedules are good, that meltdowns are about
>control, that he was just manipulating me, etc. I brushed them aside, but
>school and work outside the home were a-given, just permanent features of
>the landscape to be worked around. But, what is it they say, if things
>don't seem to be working as you expect, check your premises? (Actually, I
>picked that up from Atlas Shrugged many years ago and it has served me well
>so far <g>). So, I ditched work three years ago, and school last year . or
>more rightly I told the kids I found out there was this thing called
>homeschooling and they all jumped at the offer to stay home! I may *think*
>I'm driving, though truly, since they were born they have been dragging me
>through this journey, but I just love being along for the ride!
>
>
>
>They left school March 2002 - they just didn't return after March Break.
>For weeks they deschooled and I read about homeschooling. I did try to
>introduce a bit of structure (unit studies, math & spelling workbooks)
>somewhere around May, but that didn't last more than 3-4 weeks. Can you
>believe it?? They flatly refused to stop their own learning activities to
>humour me! LOL! So began the next leg of my journey into unschooling,
>which thankfully brought me here.
>
>
>
>And, once I'd begun to trust the kids more and more to take control of
>their learning, I couldn't help but realize they could be trusted to take
>control of other aspects of their lives . TV, video games, sleeping, food
>etc. You guys have helped me so much to stretch that last bit. It hasn't
>been a "big" change for us, just a bit more loosening of the reins. Early
>on I subscribed to the "pick your battles" mantra and I was *very*
>selective. I could often understand why they were behaving in certain
>ways, that they were reactions to outside situations/forces, so our
>"battles" were relatively few and it just meant redrawing a few lines (or
>more rightly, erasing them). There was no need for an "announcement" of a
>new lifestyle to the kids, just a bit of surprise on their part when they
>nudged a line and it was no longer there; just an honest discussion with
>Mom or Dad. We realized that for us it really comes down to principles, not
>rules (and a good chunk of deschooling on our part!).
>
>
>
>So there's a bit of background for my intro. I hope to share many of the
>interesting stories and insights I have gathered over the past year on the
>various topics of "radical" unschooling as I try to contribute more in the
>discussions.
>
>
>
>And thanks again to everyone for taking the time and effort to participate
>on this wonderful list!
>
>
>
>Pam L.
>
>I guess I'll use my last initial to help distinguish between the various
>Pams here. Funny, I've never had that problem before!
>
>
>
>PS I'm planning a family road trip in August for the conference. I've
>already MapBlast-ed it ... 13hrs 41mins to the hotel ... no problem! Here's
>hoping I can pull all the details together.
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
>If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
>the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list
>owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
>email to:
>[email protected]
>
>Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Mary
From: "24hrmom" <24hrmom@...>
<<So there's a bit of background for my intro. I hope to share many of the
interesting stories and insights I have gathered over the past year on the
various topics of "radical" unschooling as I try to contribute more in the
discussions.>>
Welocme Pam L. I really enjoyed reading your intro. I like how you put it
all down. Looking forward to hearing from you again.
It's funny, your post caught me right away. We also have a Joseph and
Alyssa. The other two are Tara and Sierra. If Sierra or Alyssa were a boy,
it would have been Michael. It was the only other boy named I picked that
Joe liked!!!
Mary B
<<So there's a bit of background for my intro. I hope to share many of the
interesting stories and insights I have gathered over the past year on the
various topics of "radical" unschooling as I try to contribute more in the
discussions.>>
Welocme Pam L. I really enjoyed reading your intro. I like how you put it
all down. Looking forward to hearing from you again.
It's funny, your post caught me right away. We also have a Joseph and
Alyssa. The other two are Tara and Sierra. If Sierra or Alyssa were a boy,
it would have been Michael. It was the only other boy named I picked that
Joe liked!!!
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/4/03 10:44:20 AM, 24hrmom@... writes:
<< I don't know if you recall, but there is a brief passage in Altas Shrugged
about a homschooling mother with two young sons - she has chosen raising a
family as her "career": >>
No! I didn't notice or remember that in those long-ago times.
Thank you VERY much for quoting it, because I'm not reading that book again.
My husband was reading it a while back, and it was on the windowsill in our
bathroom. I would eye it in peripheral vision like it was a little bit
dangerous and might jump down on my while my pants were down.
Sandra
<< I don't know if you recall, but there is a brief passage in Altas Shrugged
about a homschooling mother with two young sons - she has chosen raising a
family as her "career": >>
No! I didn't notice or remember that in those long-ago times.
Thank you VERY much for quoting it, because I'm not reading that book again.
My husband was reading it a while back, and it was on the windowsill in our
bathroom. I would eye it in peripheral vision like it was a little bit
dangerous and might jump down on my while my pants were down.
Sandra