[email protected]

In a message dated 02/06/2000 6:28:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< From: "deejay" <deejay@...>
Subject: Re: Does our society overvalue socialization?

The type of socialization you mentioned is valuable in my opinion,
especially if the following are all you want your kids to be about: being
popular, egotistical, getting into the right college, driving an expensive
car, getting a high paying yes man job, marrying into the right family,
knowing all the right people, avoiding the wrong people like the plague,
keeping up with the Joneses and so on and so on until they retire right
before they die from the stress and then realize they don't have a clue who
they are and just spend the rest of their days in front of the TV set.

Not me, and not you guys, or you probably wouldn't be on this list :)

Sorry, it just came out! LOL
>>
Betsy,
Thankyou for sharing this, I got a real "kick" out of reading it! My ds
was in ps kindergarten for 6 weeks and he was constantly in trouble for
trying to socialize with the other students. I found it amusing that on the
day we pulled him out of school, his teacher said she would be really
concerned about his socialization!!!! Rofl!

Hugs,
Dena
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/HsMomsSupport
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

saida

hello to all, this is my first time writing here. i notice how many readers
we have. i love to read but can't find the time now that i home school. i
will read a little here and there but not like i use to. i can't finish a
book anymore. there are so many reading material that i would love to read.
i even thought about the bathroom move but it doesn't work here. i always
have someone knocking on the door. i barely could do what i have to do, (you
know what i mean). when the children were in public school i could read more
often. that's all gone. i love havng them here but i also love reading.
well, i thought that perhaps i could get some good ideas from you all. i'm
reading kid novels now. that's because the children read it to me. at least
they are nice too.
saida

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 6:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 404



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There are 23 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

1. Re: Concerned about property values?
From: "John O. Andersen" <andersen@...>
2. Re: running pneumonia
From: Natrlmama@...
3. Re: attachment parenting
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
4. Re: Gardening Zones
From: Natrlmama@...
5. Re: KnoK NEWS for 5 Feb. 2000
From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
6. Moving house, was Re: old timers
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
7. Re: Books
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
8. Re: Books
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
9. Re: Books
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
10. Does our society overvalue socialization?
From: "Beth Burnham" <beth2002@...>
11. Re: Does our society overvalue socialization?
From: "deejay" <deejay@...>
12. Re: Does our society overvalue socialization?
From: Marbleface@...
13. Re: Books
From: Tom & Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
14. Re:blue ribbon schools/social conformity
From: Thad Martin <tmartin@...>
15. Re: Re:blue ribbon schools/social conformity
From: "Beth Burnham" <beth2002@...>
16. Joshua
From: heathfam@...
17. Joshua
From: heathfam@...
18. Re: Joshua
From: Hsmotgo@...
19. RE: Gardening Zones
From: "Brynn" <panchot@...>
20. We Want Our Children to Be Suckers!
From: "John O. Andersen" <andersen@...>
21. Re: Gardening Zones
From: Natrlmama@...
22. thanks for the warm welcome
From: Androdite@...
23. Re: We Want Our Children to Be Suckers!
From: JENNIFE30@...


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Message: 1
Date: 5 Feb 2000 05:52:33 -0800
From: "John O. Andersen" <andersen@...>
Subject: Re: Concerned about property values?

Beth,

Thanks for the response.

> I agree totally about joining a museum did that out west in AZ and had
> learning adventures no amount of money could replace!

Volunteering is really the untapped education resource. Many people after
tiring of extortionate tuition bills may find their way to this free and
amazing resource which in some cases may be superior to sitting in class and
taking tests.

John Andersen
http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen




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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:26:29 EST
From: Natrlmama@...
Subject: Re: running pneumonia

In a message dated 02/04/2000 9:57:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Monkeycoop@... writes:

<< She said, "Do you mean walking pneumonia?", and he said,
"No, evidently she's immune to that."

**** Kim ****
runs with scissors >>

Oh, Kim, I really like you <gg>

Kathy


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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:16:42 -0000
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
Subject: Re: attachment parenting

me too, that's where I'm coming from :-)

Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: Natrlmama@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] attachment parenting


From: Natrlmama@...

In a message dated 02/03/2000 9:55:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jazballard@... writes:

<< So IS this what "we" are doing? Keeping the needs
of our children upfront and foremost..allowing them
to develop at their pace...providing quidance, love
support...I understand that some parents don't take
the role of a parent as seriously as I/we do..so does
that make me someone who can be labeled as one who
believes in "attachment parenting"? >>

Yes these all sound good! Most people when they speak
of attachment parenting, they are talking about a lifestyle term that
was coined by Dr. Bill and Martha Sears, pediatrician, La Leche
League Leader and parents to eight children. Many people think
of AP (attachment parenting) as natural parenting, and often this
type of parenting can be found in non-industrialized cultures and
considered the norm. Most Americans practicing AP start from
birth, looking to birth their children in the gentle environment,
breastfeeding and sleep sharing, and carrying your baby/child in
a sling or in arms. Crying it out and physical punishment
are not considered AP. You do not have to have done all of the
above practices to be AP I believe, (example; some women may not have had
all the correct information or support to breastfeed their child, but
practice
other attachment/bonding practices). In turn these practices help you and
your child become in tune with each other, so you can better parent etc.
There are tons of sites on the
web where you can learn more about this. Hope this helps! ps. I think
that
homeschooling/unschooling is a very natural progression from and early
APing lifestyle.
Kathy

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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:55:34 EST
From: Natrlmama@...
Subject: Re: Gardening Zones

In a message dated 02/03/2000 10:31:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
hooperck@... writes:

<<
All you gardening people, I stumbled into a great newsletter from
Organic Gardening. It is a newsletter for your zone. It's great. If
your interested, go to
http://www.OrganicGardening.com >>
Thank you for the info. I subscribed, but looking at the zone map, I had
a difficult time telling if I am in zone 8 or 9. I am in southern
California,
Riverside county/Corona specifically. Is anyone in this area who knows
there gardening zones? thanks!

Kathy


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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 13:48:18 -0500
From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
Subject: Re: KnoK NEWS for 5 Feb. 2000

Covert Family,
Our homeschool group in NC, USA, is looking for some pen pals. Are you
interested? If you are, I'll send more details.
Thanks,
Ann




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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 18:38:45 -0000
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
Subject: Moving house, was Re: old timers

I had to blink and read again when I saw this, cos I've gone through this
last year, I think I'm on the way over it, but it remains to be seem :-) I
knew moving would be difficult, since the house was not my choice and would
not have been my choice, but I was not prepared for the depths of depression
I went in last year, mostly, if not all, house-related. Took me a while to
figure out that I was grieving! Thanks for affirming my self-diagnosis!!

Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: Brown
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] old timers


From: Brown <mjcmbrwn@...>

Hi Sandi


> <cut> everyone seemed fine. Our discussions over the
> years have shown that it was much more traumatic than I realized for
them
> even though they adjusted okay.

Yes, already I have become faintly aware of this. Our 12yo who has wanted
for
always to move to the country, started exhibiting strange behaviour, and
it
emerged that although he loves living here, he was still going through a
major
grieving for all that has been his life until now, and has been left
behind. The
2 that weren't that keen on moving seem almost to be handling it better -
perhaps their low expectations enabled them to be pleasantly surprised!

> I had tried to keep them aware of all
> plans, choices, etc during the change, but they still felt they had no
> choice.

I do feel bad about this - children have so little choice really, in so
many
areas of their lives. Even when we, as individual families, allow our
children
choice, they soon become aware that other families don't work like that,
and
that their choice is only theirs by virtue of our choice to allow it.

> I always found life in general to be a balancing act. Home birth,
> attachment parenting, homeschooling, all of these things that grow
children
> so well, and have the potential to grow parents well, too, can also be
> draining if you don't find the balance that you need.

Yeah, and I've never been to good at balancing - I always did choose the
swing
rather than the seesaw at the playground <g>

Carol


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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 18:55:17 -0000
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Books

I have an Iain M Banks novel sitting on the office windowsill waiting to be
read :-) I bought it for Father's Day (or birthday, can't remember which
:-) ) last year, and dh loved it, but I've yet to read it :-) I need to
start reading breastfeeding and ap-type books again, since my LLL
application is getting a kick up the bottom now <g> I have a second-hand
copy of a book on gardening with mulch, rather than compost, which I like, I
think it's called the No Work Garden, or something like that! (On the side
topic of gardening, I got the phone number today of someone local who
supplies mushroom compost for gardens, will be phoning them on Monday...)
The last book I read was A Little Princess, I think, oh, hang on, no it was
a Terry Pratchett Discworld novel from the library! Anything else? Don't
think so! 99.9% of our books are packed up in boxes in the garage or at my
mother's since moving last year, so when I get them out again, I may be
reading some more. Will probably re-read Lord of the Rings before the first
film comes out. OK, that's me done (for now <g>)

Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Yates
To: Unschooling
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 4:28 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Books


From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>

I'm willing to bet that another thing we all have in common, is that we
are all avid readers. After the discussion of Amelia Peabody, I'd like
to hear more. What else do you like to read? Favorite authors ect..
I'm reading my first Amelia Peabody. Just started it. I can tell I'll
like it already.
Here are some of my favorites.
For mystery (my favorite) I love Ruth Rendell. She has an Inspector
Wexford series as well as others. I also like Martha Grimes. She too
has a series with the same characters. I also love to read the Emily
Pollifax series. Why can't I think of the author??
I think outside of mystery I really love May Sarton. I think she has
one called "Full Circle".
Right now I'm reading a book by the Dali Lama or rather a phd and him
called "The Art of Happiness". It is wonderful. I love his philosophy.

So, what are all of you reading?
Ann


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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 19:03:14 -0000
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Books

Another Anne McCaffrey fan! I have all the books on Pern, and a couple of
the Rowan series, can't remember the exact titles right now. I like David
Eddings' stuff too. Not a fantasy nut at all!!

Tracy

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom & Nanci Kuykendall
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Books


From: Tom & Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>


>>I'm willing to bet that another thing we all have in common, is that we
>>are all avid readers. After the discussion of Amelia Peabody, I'd like
>>to hear more. What else do you like to read?
>>Right now I'm reading a book by the Dali Lama or rather a phd and him
>>called "The Art of Happiness". It is wonderful. I love his philosophy.
>>
>>So, what are all of you reading?
>>Ann
>
>I LOOOOOOVE that book! DH and I read it together. I have the utmost
respect for him. I was fortunate enough to meet him in person and talk
with him, and he exudes such a magical aura. He has a presence that can
be
felt and really affects you when you are near him. He truly is "an
elightened being."
>
>Nanci K.

Oops! and I forgot! What books do I like to read. I really enjoy
fiction
as a way to de-stress and escape for me. I love Anne McCaffrey, David
Brin, Orson Scott Card, Anne Rice, Jean M. Auel, and R. A. Salvatore for
starters. Of course I am always Unschooling, so I read any number of
other
spiritual, parenting, psychology, comparative religious, and adoption
books
(just right now.)


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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 19:05:17 -0000
From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Books

I'd like to, but it's not big enough really. I'd like a bathroom big enough
to put an armchair in, too! I do like reading in the bath, but ours isn't
comfy enough :-(

Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: FUN (Billy & Nancy)
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Books


From: "FUN (Billy & Nancy)" <FUNLists@...>

Okay, how many of you read in the bathroom? We've got a book shelf in both
of our bathrooms! (I know it's not supposed to be the best thing to do,
but
the bathroom sure is a nice quiet reading placing!)

Nancy G.

Visit our Web Site!
http://www.FUN-Books.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom & Nanci Kuykendall [mailto:tn-k4of5@...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 12:28 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Books
>
>
> From: Tom & Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
>
>
> >>I'm willing to bet that another thing we all have in common, is that
we
> >>are all avid readers. After the discussion of Amelia Peabody, I'd
like
> >>to hear more. What else do you like to read?
>


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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:11:49 -0500
From: "Beth Burnham" <beth2002@...>
Subject: Does our society overvalue socialization?

I am on an anthropological quest as I am dealing with those negative folks
who worry about my kids missing out on all that "socialization" they get in
school.
Do you guys feel that our society over values or emphasizes this value to
an extreme degree not natural for all esp. in an institutional setting?
Up here in New England they are penalized for even being a minute late
getting in the classroom. I think we may always be late to things we just
don't enjoy but even getting to work on time is not something my DH is good
at even though he likes going to work most days. I look forward to not
having to be on time for school every morning. Am I teaching negative values
or just that being on time isn't as important as sense of self? Socializing
by being silent and still in a group setting as in the military is also
against my core beliefs. I am sure all cultures have their peer pressures. I
am happy that in this day and age we don't have to give in to any peer
pressure of any kind and really know freedom is there something wrong with
this that I am missing?
Beth


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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:54:54 -0500
From: "deejay" <deejay@...>
Subject: Re: Does our society overvalue socialization?

The type of socialization you mentioned is valuable in my opinion,
especially if the following are all you want your kids to be about: being
popular, egotisical, getting into the right college, driving an expensive
car, getting a high paying yes man job, marrying into the right family,
knowing all the right people, avoiding the wrong people like the plague,
keeping up with the Joneses and so on and so on until they retire right
before they die from the stress and then realize they don't have a clue who
they are and just spend the rest of their days in front of the TV set.

Not me, and not you guys, or you probably wouldn't be on this list :)

Sorry, it just came out! LOL

Betsy Wright

The Wright Way To Homeschool
http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/homeschoolingwrights/

Send email to: deejay@...
----- Original Message -----
From: Beth Burnham
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 2:11 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Does our society overvalue socialization?


From: "Beth Burnham" <beth2002@...>


I am on an anthropological quest as I am dealing with those negative folks
who worry about my kids missing out on all that "socialization" they get in
school.
Do you guys feel that our society over values or emphasizes this value to
an extreme degree not natural for all esp. in an institutional setting?
Up here in New England they are penalized for even being a minute late
getting in the classroom. I think we may always be late to things we just
don't enjoy but even getting to work on time is not something my DH is good
at even though he likes going to work most days. I look forward to not
having to be on time for school every morning. Am I teaching negative values
or just that being on time isn't as important as sense of self? Socializing
by being silent and still in a group setting as in the military is also
against my core beliefs. I am sure all cultures have their peer pressures. I
am happy that in this day and age we don't have to give in to any peer
pressure of any kind and really know freedom is there something wrong with
this that I am missing?
Beth

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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:04:03 EST
From: Marbleface@...
Subject: Re: Does our society overvalue socialization?

In a message dated 02/05/2000 7:14:29 PM !!!First Boot!!!, beth2002@...
writes:

<< I am on an anthropological quest as I am dealing with those negative
folks
who worry about my kids missing out on all that "socialization" they get in
school.
Do you guys feel that our society over values or emphasizes this value to
an extreme degree not natural for all esp. in an institutional setting? >>


I feel that this study would be severely biased if you are planning to
survey
this group. Like "preaching to the choir." Of course, most of us are going
to agree with you.

Nance


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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 16:29:21 -0700
From: Tom & Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
Subject: Re: Books

>Will probably re-read Lord of the Rings before the first film comes out.
OK, that's me done (for now <g>)

Tracy

Movie!?!?!

Nanci K.



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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:07:13 +0000
From: Thad Martin <tmartin@...>
Subject: Re:blue ribbon schools/social conformity

megates@... wrote:

> From: megates@...
>
> It seems a lot of people think a better school is more strict, "has
> higher standards". I met a mom who is very proud that her kids
> kindergarten class is so strict bc the children know what the rules
> are????

hi,

i went to a b-day party for a 4 yo recently, all the other kids there met
in
daycare, we were the only homeschoolers. i found the dynamic between the
parents and kids really distant, not without love but without closeness.
the
parent would stand back and say things like 'now uses your words' and the
kids would be fighting over the toys. it was odd to me (not the fighting
part:), the kids do their thing and the parents do theirs and 'never the
'twain shall meet' just bridged by a bit of vocalization. it made me think
that people keep themselves so busy so they don't have to see what's really
happening and if something bad happens they have a good excuse - they were
too busy.

i have a thing about controlling kids. boundaries are great but control is
a
different story. i didn't give birth to prove to the world i can spawn the
greatest person that ever lived (though rene' (4) informed me last night
that
he wants to become 'a legend' -i'm not completely convinced he clearly
understands what that is <lol>) or the most obedient or the kid with the
best
manners or any other of their silly accolades. i did gave birth to
experience the joy of watching a person develop and find happiness in their
everyday life and to be of whatever assistance i am able. i believe
compassion and good manners are very helpful but only if it is done with
sincerity not coercion. this is my problem with schools.

i would be interested in how others step out of the way of their kids and
not
pass on all the issue based in social conformity. from what i've seen some
of the greatest injustices perpetrated against kids is in the name of social
conformity. my son is out spoken - for the good or the bad - i make sure he
knows his voice carries weight. i also let him know when he's driving me
nuts with his incessant talking. i do not use the word 'incessant' lightly
- he will talk to anyone anytime for as long as they will sit there. i can
not even count the number of picnics of total strangers (more often than not
adult only) he has invited himself to. he just parks himself without ever
questioning whether he would be wanted, in his mind of course they would
want
to hear what he has to say:)

i am not embarrassed by anything he does. at first i was tempted to feel he
was a reflection of me and i would be judged by other because of his
behavior, but you know so what. i know people judge, their thoughts are
so 'loud' you can't help but know. what i've found is, trying to control
(the use of rules) kids or anyone, sets you up for a power struggle then
you
have to ask yourself 'is this really the kind of relationship i want?' and '
isn't this just what i have with my parents (or any other person trying to
have power of you)?' for me the answers are no and yes respectively. so i
accept that i'm breaking with all my 'role models' and that leaves me with
always (at least for now:) having to know why i do what i do and making
conscious choices so i don't fall back into repeating what was done to me
and
i must afford this right to my kids. now that i've been able to make the
transition i feel life doesn't need to be scheduled or planned or have a
curriculum to succeed and prosper and be happy but just conscious and
sincere
involvement is needed.

the other thing i wanted to touch on is that there has been a lot of
discussion about waldorf, which to be honest i only lightly touched on as
far
as reading the emails. it's not a big interest of mine though they do
provide nice products albeit a bit expensive but very good quality. i
looked into becoming a waldorf teacher when i lived in northern cal. but
backed away. for me it's too structured and imposes a reality on to the
environment rather than allowing one to develop of it's own accord. i'm
not
as well read on the specific differences between these philosophies because
i
make mine up as i go and find i'm much happier doing it that way. it's
hard
for me to conform to even the alternative methods and this is why i'm on
this
list because for me unschooling is more of a philosophical base and methods
such as waldorf are more of a structure you 'live' in. just some thoughts


<<
I also know two hs families who live right next to a school. They use
the playground after school hours. >>

LOL--same here!

Marcie

not only do we live across the street for an elementary school but beside
and
behind us is a daycare. funny how things happen :)

-susan

ps. someone was talking about other unschooling lists and said they missed
the philosophical topics found there. personal i would love to see those
kinds of topics grow here. so if anyone is so inclined i would join in
though i must admit i do get behind in the messages presently i've got
nearly
200 just from this group to read:0


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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:02:21 -0500
From: "Beth Burnham" <beth2002@...>
Subject: Re: Re:blue ribbon schools/social conformity

i looked into becoming a waldorf teacher when i lived in northern cal. but
backed away. for me it's too structured and imposes a reality on to the
environment rather than allowing one to develop of it's own accord. i'm
not as well read on the specific differences between these philosophies
because i make mine up as i go and find i'm much happier doing it that way.
it's hard for me to conform to even the alternative methods and this is why
i'm on this list because for me unschooling is more of a philosophical base
and methods such as waldorf are more of a structure you 'live' in. just
some thoughts

Susan I am in agreement with you too about the structure of the Waldorf way
I just like to borrow from what I have appreciated about them esp. their
books and art. I would have preferred to become a Waldorf teacher as opposed
to a regular elem. teacher in the olden days because I would have liked to
further develop that artist that I was ( I realize I still can blossom at
home along side my own children) I think lots of parents have trouble out
there in Waldorf land and still have to worry about the "waldorf police" who
have in some cases literally gone after them! I had a bad experience looking
into being a teacher at Antioch was totally dissed by the woman who ran the
program and I was over the age of 35 at the time I looked into it.
I have also gone to Hampshire College a great place for nonconforming
'unschoolers" if you can afford it. I think they give scholarships nowadays.
I had trouble with the drug culture that was there but hopefully those days
are gone.
Tell us more about your son he sounds so vibrant and full of self esteem!
Beth


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Message: 16
Date: 6 Feb 2000 01:31:58 -0000
From: heathfam@...
Subject: Joshua

Hi all....

( hey Lyn ;-))
I just want to introduce myself here....
My name is Joshua and I have two boys going on 6 and 8 who "unschool"
as near as I can tell. I am the "stay at home parent", as my wife works
full time. We withdrew our boys form school over the Christmas break, so we
are only a month into this.
Of course I have been going through questions about to what extent to
utilize curriculum materials etc. and how to structure our "schooldays". My
wife would be much happier I think if we created an in home replica of a
school classroom and followed a good curriculum, but it is just what I
desire for us. Intuitively I have always known learning didnt need to be
confined to "school."
I didn't know it was called "unschooling", but I am happy to find lots of
other people "out there" educationg their children at home by just living
full inquisitive lives.
I look forward to having such a lorge list of experienced people to glean
wisdome from through this list.
Cheers,

Joshua

Oh, are there any other stay-home dad's out there??


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Message: 17
Date: 6 Feb 2000 01:33:32 -0000
From: heathfam@...
Subject: Joshua

Hi all....

( hey Lyn ;-))
I just want to introduce myself here....
My name is Joshua and I have two boys going on 6 and 8 who "unschool"
as near as I can tell. I am the "stay at home parent", as my wife works
full time. We withdrew our boys form school over the Christmas break, so we
are only a month into this.
Of course I have been going through questions about to what extent to
utilize curriculum materials etc. and how to structure our "schooldays". My
wife would be much happier I think if we created an in home replica of a
school classroom and followed a good curriculum, but it is just what I
desire for us. Intuitively I have always known learning didnt need to be
confined to "school."
I didn't know it was called "unschooling", but I am happy to find lots of
other people "out there" educationg their children at home by just living
full inquisitive lives.
I look forward to having such a lorge list of experienced people to glean
wisdome from through this list.
Cheers,

Joshua

Oh, are there any other stay-home dad's out there??


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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:58:35 EST
From: Hsmotgo@...
Subject: Re: Joshua

Josh,
Welcome, and don't worry if there aren't any other stay home dads, this list
will support you to the max! take care and go for it!
Teresa


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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:00:49 -0800
From: "Brynn" <panchot@...>
Subject: RE: Gardening Zones

I cannot find the newsletter........help?

Brynn~
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best night and day
to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human
being can fight and never stop fighting."
--e.e. cummings



-----Original Message-----
From: Natrlmama@... [mailto:Natrlmama@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 9:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Gardening Zones


From: Natrlmama@...

In a message dated 02/03/2000 10:31:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
hooperck@... writes:

<<
All you gardening people, I stumbled into a great newsletter from
Organic Gardening. It is a newsletter for your zone. It's great. If
your interested, go to
http://www.OrganicGardening.com >>
Thank you for the info. I subscribed, but looking at the zone map, I had
a difficult time telling if I am in zone 8 or 9. I am in southern
California,
Riverside county/Corona specifically. Is anyone in this area who knows
there gardening zones? thanks!

Kathy

--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com




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Message: 20
Date: 5 Feb 2000 23:06:06 -0800
From: "John O. Andersen" <andersen@...>
Subject: We Want Our Children to Be Suckers!

We Want Our Children to Be Suckers!


Yes. That's right. We hope our children become real suckers. And we also
want them to be suck-sessful adults.

We derived our non-traditional definition of sucker from Henry David Thoreau
's words in his classic Walden. He wrote that he "...went to the woods to
live deliberately...to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life."

A sucker single-mindedly goes after that marrow. A sucker hungers for
knowledge. A sucker notes the changes of seasons, the migration of birds,
the budding of flowers, the artistry of the morning dew. A sucker is as
comfortable with the technology of the present as the wisdom of the ages. A
sucker is deeply moved in the face of human triumph or tragedy. A sucker is
all there, fully awake, completely embracing all that life has to offer.

Sound like a worthy goal for children? We think so. Here are three steps
to help children learn to be suckers:


Be a sucker yourself

Model a passion for learning. Be open-minded. Try new things all of the
time. Focus on stockpiling experiences rather than material objects.
Travel slowly, stopping and lingering along the way. Chat with the people
you meet. Savor your food. Don't jump to conclusions. Pick the minds of
people who know the ropes. Enjoy sunrises and sunsets. Become adept at
looking through telescopes, microscopes, and just under your nose. When
your children see how much fun you're having, nothing will stop them from
joining in.


Give children time and space

Overscheduling our children's lives may make them into "successes" in the
eyes of the world, but it won't help them to be suckers. For that you've got
to leave them alone. Let them build their play forts, play their street
games, and experiment in the kitchen. Encourage creativity. Expose them to
the very best in life and let them choose what they want. Give them the
tinder and matches, but let them light their own fires of passion. The
ability to suck the marrow out of life comes slowly over many years. So don
't expect immediate, quantifiable results.


Seek inspiration from other suckers

Mandy and I place our faith in the premise that "a sucker is born every
minute." We believe that everyone can be a sucker, but too many get lured
away from that. They may be led to believe that happiness has to do with
money, status, or position. Far too often those pursuits engulf lives, and
distract would-be suckers from the path.

On a positive note, you can find real suckers everywhere. They are the ones
who are involved and active. They are multi-faceted people, always
learning, always growing, always changing. Such people need to be your
lifelines. You can also read about great suckers in history; people who did
extraordinary things, who were committed to living each day to the fullest.


The lifelong quest

Suck-sess has to do with cutting through the veneer of life and getting at
its essence. It has to do with throwing out agendas and living
spontaneously. It's about bringing our exterior world in harmony with our
interior. It's about reducing our baggage. It's about getting wrapped up
in the ecstasy of the moment rather than postponing happiness for a later
date.

In a nutshell, suck-sess is the nectar of life. That's why we're so intent
on teaching our children how to be real suckers.



John Andersen is a professional "rug sucker" (carpet cleaner) in Portland,
Oregon. He writes, travels, assists his wife Mandy with the homeschooling
of their two children, and volunteers as a tour guide on a submarine at the
Oregon Museum of Science and Industry.

Copyright � 2000 John O. Andersen. All rights reserved.

For more essays along this line of thinking, go to:
http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen




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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST
From: Natrlmama@...
Subject: Re: Gardening Zones

In a message dated 02/05/2000 10:59:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
panchot@... writes:

<< I cannot find the newsletter........help? >>

ha ha I clicked on all the links read a bunch of articles until I finally
saw
the
one that said almanac 2000 with the pic of the (duh) United States on it!!
LOL
Took me quite a while, almost gave up.
Kathy


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Message: 22
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 04:05:16 EST
From: Androdite@...
Subject: thanks for the warm welcome

Let's see...

Once I read about unschooling in the "Homeschooling book of Answers"...I
knew
that was the route for us...It was kinda hard to imagine exactly what or how
to teach my children...in fact when I looked at the home idea of home
schooling, choosing curriculums, setting up 'academic learning' time...I
felt
kida overwhelmed...

Then I got into the Unschooling Handbook...what the author said makes so
much
sense...I already instill alot of trust in my boys to figure things out on
their own and to be able to make choices that further thier own interests...

Also I experienced a sense of relief with the idea that I didn't have to go
and buy a curriculum...I have made some plans to create a more learning
encouraged environment in my den/home office space...I keep my sewing
machine
there but soon that will be moved to my bedroom...(it was in my bedroom when
I lived in a two bedroom apt...) I am moving a sofa and loveseat to the den
and adding some bookshelves...and I wanted to get some books that are more
like reference books rite now...such as a basic math book...that can help me
and the boys understand what we are learning...not so much a text book...but
like a how to book...if that makes sense and I also want to get a book on
grammar that explains all the 'rules' so that we can understand them...I had
one a while back when I did alot of writing and aspired to be a sci fi and
fantasy author (I have some great ideas)...now I got the APA manual on how
to
write journal articles related to the medical and nursing fields (a
requirement for college) now I just want something basic that is easy to
understand that can answer on the spot questions...as for science and social
studies and other educational 'requirements'...well I don't feel that there
is any one book we should have so I plan on acquiring whatever seems
interesting at the time...there are some field trips planned in the near
future (especially around paydays) to several of the local
bookstores...(wink)

So far the hardest thing has been sharing my computer with the boys...but
since I have a laptop as well as a pc...that isn't as hard as I thought it
would be...

I am having fun and wish that I had gotten the inspiration for this desision
a year or so ago...but as I place my faith in God...God brings into our life
what we need when we need it...

This afternoon...the boys again asked..."When does homeschool start?" so I
asked
what is homeschool and we talked about all the things we did in the last few
days that helped us to learn something new and exciting...I happened to pick
up a couple of grade appropriate 'curriculum' work books at costco and let
them know that anytime they felt a need to sit down and do 'class work' they
were welcome to...we laughed at that...then they promptly went outside to
play with friends...it is so nice to have the wieght of ps off our
shoulders...and I feel like I am getting some quality time with them...I
always felt that I was competing with ps for thier time...


This letter must be all over the place...I am just excited about unschooling
and having a forum to share our experiences!!!

Lhiza


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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 04:50:21 EST
From: JENNIFE30@...
Subject: Re: We Want Our Children to Be Suckers!

John,,,,
that was great,,,a wonderful twist on 'sucker', and very true to what a
'true
sucker' is--one who puts the emphasis on what can i get out of this
experience, but not in a superficial way,,or in a me thing,,,,but in a very
deep need to know for the sake of knowing and nothing else kind of way. I
loved it. Thanks for touching that part.

Jennifer in calif


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