re: plug in drug
[email protected]
>>>>>> I agree with Jana. I sure don't look down on those who dowatch, but I think it makes my job harder. They turn into little
zombies and I can't get anyones attention.
What is your job that is made harder by having tv in your home? "Little zombies" is a pretty disrespectful term. I think what you mean is they are interested and absorbed. I don't watch much tv, but I do spend a fair amount of time on the computer, and if the conversation is good I might appear totally absorbed in the screen. I'd be highly offended if my husband got rid of my computer and then announced that he had to do it because it turned his wife into a "little zombie."
Would you feel the same way if you had a child who loved to read and got so absorbed in his/her book that you couldn't get his/her attention easily? Would you feel that you had to get rid of all reading material so their attention was always easily gotten?
Patti
[email protected]
***I don't know how many times I've been playing outside with them, and I
wanted to head home so I'd try to bribe them by saying we could watch a
special video or TV show. It has never worked.***
Yesterday my children had some friends over and they were playing Manhunt outside. My three year old wanted to join them, which meant that I needed to go out also to monitor him near the street. After dinner they wanted to go right back out and I actually *pleaded* with them to please watch tv or a movie or play one of the video games that I had just rented for them at blockbuster.
Nope. They wanted to play outside.
If tv and video games were hoarded and doled out sparingly or otherwise treated like a big deal- or if they were absent and forbidden altogether- they'd have much more power over my kids than they do right now.
Patti
wanted to head home so I'd try to bribe them by saying we could watch a
special video or TV show. It has never worked.***
Yesterday my children had some friends over and they were playing Manhunt outside. My three year old wanted to join them, which meant that I needed to go out also to monitor him near the street. After dinner they wanted to go right back out and I actually *pleaded* with them to please watch tv or a movie or play one of the video games that I had just rented for them at blockbuster.
Nope. They wanted to play outside.
If tv and video games were hoarded and doled out sparingly or otherwise treated like a big deal- or if they were absent and forbidden altogether- they'd have much more power over my kids than they do right now.
Patti
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 10:35:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:
I am in was asking about TV. I had said that I don't restrict it. The usual
comment: "my children would sit all day and do nothing but watch TV". I try
to explain that at first they might, if it has been restricted. But if they
have total freedom and no threat that it will be taken away they will move
away from it and it will be another tool in your house.
They so don't get it. The come back is always "but I know my children and
they would not move away from it." There seems to be no way to help them to
see things a little different. But maybe they really weren't interested in
the topic to begin with. Some people are so sure they are right. And how do
you counter when they say "I know my children." They are right there. I
don't know their children. I can say I have seen mother's that have said the
same thing until they tried it.
I guess some people don't get it and I am not the kind of person to preach
the topic. I don't try to convert people.
Anyway enough rambling.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
patti.schmidt2@... writes:
> If tv and video games were hoarded and doled out sparingly or otherwiseIt is so hard to explain that to other people. One Mom in the support group
> treated like a big deal- or if they were absent and forbidden altogether-
> they'd have much more power over my kids than they do right now
I am in was asking about TV. I had said that I don't restrict it. The usual
comment: "my children would sit all day and do nothing but watch TV". I try
to explain that at first they might, if it has been restricted. But if they
have total freedom and no threat that it will be taken away they will move
away from it and it will be another tool in your house.
They so don't get it. The come back is always "but I know my children and
they would not move away from it." There seems to be no way to help them to
see things a little different. But maybe they really weren't interested in
the topic to begin with. Some people are so sure they are right. And how do
you counter when they say "I know my children." They are right there. I
don't know their children. I can say I have seen mother's that have said the
same thing until they tried it.
I guess some people don't get it and I am not the kind of person to preach
the topic. I don't try to convert people.
Anyway enough rambling.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 8:35:19 AM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:
<< After dinner they wanted to go right back out and I actually *pleaded*
with them to please watch tv or a movie or play one of the video games that I
had just rented for them at blockbuster.
Nope. They wanted to play outside. >>
Oh, I've had that happen too!!!
I can't bribe them with the offer of the rental of anything they want
sometimes. They want me to take them somewhere, or they want to walk up to
the park with their friends.
We can't bribe them with food or candy, either, since they've always had it
when they wanted it and so it's nothing valuable.
I have tried and failed on numerous occasions to talk a kid into wanting to
eat out with me, when we were out shopping and *I* wanted to go to a
restaurant. Both Marty and Holly tend to say "That's too expensive. Let's
just go home and eat."
WHAT!?
I never knew those would be the side effects of freedom, that they would
choose all kinds of things my parents used to force me to do.
Sandra
<< After dinner they wanted to go right back out and I actually *pleaded*
with them to please watch tv or a movie or play one of the video games that I
had just rented for them at blockbuster.
Nope. They wanted to play outside. >>
Oh, I've had that happen too!!!
I can't bribe them with the offer of the rental of anything they want
sometimes. They want me to take them somewhere, or they want to walk up to
the park with their friends.
We can't bribe them with food or candy, either, since they've always had it
when they wanted it and so it's nothing valuable.
I have tried and failed on numerous occasions to talk a kid into wanting to
eat out with me, when we were out shopping and *I* wanted to go to a
restaurant. Both Marty and Holly tend to say "That's too expensive. Let's
just go home and eat."
WHAT!?
I never knew those would be the side effects of freedom, that they would
choose all kinds of things my parents used to force me to do.
Sandra
Mary
From: patti.schmidt2@...
<<Would you feel the same way if you had a child who loved to read and got so absorbed in his/her book that you couldn't get his/her attention easily? Would you feel that you had to get rid of all reading material so their attention was always easily gotten?>>
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. There are times when the kids are watching tv and I call them from right there, and there is no response. They aren't tuning me out, they are just really tuned into what they are watching. And it could be Pokemon, The Wiggles, or something on Animal Planet. Does that mean it's worthless because they are intested in it? Sometimes they do the exact same thing when they are reading a book, drawing, playing a game or just having a conversation with each other. I don't see where they are zombies just because they are interested and don't respond right away when I call them or ask a question. Maybe that's the real problem. Not responding to a parent when a parent "thinks" the child should be.
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<Would you feel the same way if you had a child who loved to read and got so absorbed in his/her book that you couldn't get his/her attention easily? Would you feel that you had to get rid of all reading material so their attention was always easily gotten?>>
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. There are times when the kids are watching tv and I call them from right there, and there is no response. They aren't tuning me out, they are just really tuned into what they are watching. And it could be Pokemon, The Wiggles, or something on Animal Planet. Does that mean it's worthless because they are intested in it? Sometimes they do the exact same thing when they are reading a book, drawing, playing a game or just having a conversation with each other. I don't see where they are zombies just because they are interested and don't respond right away when I call them or ask a question. Maybe that's the real problem. Not responding to a parent when a parent "thinks" the child should be.
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 9:47:22 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
If tv and video games were hoarded and doled out sparingly or otherwise
treated like a big deal- or if they were absent and forbidden altogether-
they'd have much more power over my kids than they do right now. >>
Yep. I have seen the transformation first hand here.
Nowadays, my kids get frustrated with their ps friend that ONLY wants to play
video games when he comes over. They beg him to go outside or play legos, but
he refuses.
Poor kid knows I'm not going to stop him and he's very limited at home due to
school, homework etc....
It's so sad to see the obsessive way he guards his time on it. My kids
complain that "Trey never wants to do ANYTHING but video games when he comes
over Mom"
:)
Today will be a video game marathon though. They just got three new games, so
I won't hear much about wanting to go outside today I think!
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<<
If tv and video games were hoarded and doled out sparingly or otherwise
treated like a big deal- or if they were absent and forbidden altogether-
they'd have much more power over my kids than they do right now. >>
Yep. I have seen the transformation first hand here.
Nowadays, my kids get frustrated with their ps friend that ONLY wants to play
video games when he comes over. They beg him to go outside or play legos, but
he refuses.
Poor kid knows I'm not going to stop him and he's very limited at home due to
school, homework etc....
It's so sad to see the obsessive way he guards his time on it. My kids
complain that "Trey never wants to do ANYTHING but video games when he comes
over Mom"
:)
Today will be a video game marathon though. They just got three new games, so
I won't hear much about wanting to go outside today I think!
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
***I don't like to preach or convert people either. But sometimes it's just
frustrating when people do seem to get unschooling except for tv and gaming.
That bothers me.***
It makes me think of watching someone do a jigsaw puzzle and most of it is fitting together beautifully, but the last piece is turned upside down. You just want to say "you've almost got it... just turn this one last piece a little" but no matter what you say they don't see that it's upside down until they want to see it.
I'm not saying this analogy rings true for everyone who doesn't like tv. It's just the image I get when someone clearly grasps unschooling except for "but I *have* to limit tv or else they'll ___."
Patti
frustrating when people do seem to get unschooling except for tv and gaming.
That bothers me.***
It makes me think of watching someone do a jigsaw puzzle and most of it is fitting together beautifully, but the last piece is turned upside down. You just want to say "you've almost got it... just turn this one last piece a little" but no matter what you say they don't see that it's upside down until they want to see it.
I'm not saying this analogy rings true for everyone who doesn't like tv. It's just the image I get when someone clearly grasps unschooling except for "but I *have* to limit tv or else they'll ___."
Patti
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 11:21:24 AM, mummy124@... writes:
<< Does that mean it's worthless because they are intested in it? Sometimes
they do the exact same thing when they are reading a book, drawing, playing a
game or just having a conversation with each other. >>
My sister (long ago, when she was not thinking very much) said she would not
ever buy her kids a video game because everytime they went where there was
one the kids fought over who got to play.
I listened to see if there was anything more profound coming (it was by
phone) and said "Would you rather buy them something that's not worth
fighting over?"
She bought them a Sega, the kids LOVED Sonic the Hedghog, her daughter, who
was fairly young then but is 18 now, has a website that discusses what
happened next.
http://sonic_resuki.tripod.com/the_resuki_project/
all that art and web design is hers.
Sandra
<< Does that mean it's worthless because they are intested in it? Sometimes
they do the exact same thing when they are reading a book, drawing, playing a
game or just having a conversation with each other. >>
My sister (long ago, when she was not thinking very much) said she would not
ever buy her kids a video game because everytime they went where there was
one the kids fought over who got to play.
I listened to see if there was anything more profound coming (it was by
phone) and said "Would you rather buy them something that's not worth
fighting over?"
She bought them a Sega, the kids LOVED Sonic the Hedghog, her daughter, who
was fairly young then but is 18 now, has a website that discusses what
happened next.
http://sonic_resuki.tripod.com/the_resuki_project/
all that art and web design is hers.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 1:04:38 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
Kirby's new Zelda game is in today, 11:00. He has the receipt in his wallet
and my van's in the shop and he's not here. >>
Trevor knew exactly what time our local store would have his reserved copy
in.
At 10:30 he started bugging me to get ready! We traded in three games and
they gave him an extra $10 credit, which we used towards a game for his
brother.
If you look at the budgeting, consumer, math skills used just on the
purchasing aspect of video games, it's pretty amazing.
And Trevor let Jared use the rest of the credit to buy a game, something he
might not be so generous about if I wasn't being generous to him.
It's very cool.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<<
Kirby's new Zelda game is in today, 11:00. He has the receipt in his wallet
and my van's in the shop and he's not here. >>
Trevor knew exactly what time our local store would have his reserved copy
in.
At 10:30 he started bugging me to get ready! We traded in three games and
they gave him an extra $10 credit, which we used towards a game for his
brother.
If you look at the budgeting, consumer, math skills used just on the
purchasing aspect of video games, it's pretty amazing.
And Trevor let Jared use the rest of the credit to buy a game, something he
might not be so generous about if I wasn't being generous to him.
It's very cool.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 1:04:38 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
Dh wants to know how Kirby knows the game comes in today at 11:00,
because he has pre-ordered Zelda and hasn't gotten a call yet. He's
very anxious. :)
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<<
Dh wants to know how Kirby knows the game comes in today at 11:00,
because he has pre-ordered Zelda and hasn't gotten a call yet. He's
very anxious. :)
>>Don't expect a call. You better call them....that's what we did.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
Karin
> It is so hard to explain that to other people. One Mom in the supportgroup
> I am in was asking about TV. I had said that I don't restrict it. Theusual
> comment: "my children would sit all day and do nothing but watch TV". Itry
> to explain that at first they might, if it has been restricted. But ifthey
> have total freedom and no threat that it will be taken away they will moveto
> away from it and it will be another tool in your house.
>
> They so don't get it. The come back is always "but I know my children and
> they would not move away from it." There seems to be no way to help them
> see things a little different. But maybe they really weren't interestedin
> the topic to begin with.I SO know what you mean about people not getting it.
Even the few unschoolers I personally know live a grand unschooling life
*except* for the whole tv issue. That and playing unrestricted games on
computers or game systems. And it doesn't matter when I explain "NO, my kids
really DON'T watch TV *all day* if it's unrestricted (or play games). They
are still so sure that their kids would do just that.
It's only when I listened to the advice at unschooling.com and completely
let go of restrictions that I found out for myself how kids do regulate
themselves when tv is unrestricted. It's simply amazing that it works so
well! If only more unschoolers were open to getting a crash course in
de-tv-viewing either here or at unschooling.com!
I think most people have been so brainwashed about tv viewing habits. It's
all you hear every day about how tv is so evil and bad. They don't realize
that they're just as brainwashed as their kids supposedly are from watching
tv! And that restricting viewing or playing to *certain* hours per day or
week just glorifies the restricted item. It's funny how that backfires on
people that way!
>Some people are so sure they are right. And how dothe
> you counter when they say "I know my children." They are right there. I
> don't know their children. I can say I have seen mother's that have said
> same thing until they tried it.I also know the "I know my children" stance that parents get. It's the line
in the sand that they draw to say "I don't care what you say but YOUR way
won't work in MY house! I *know* better." They get defensive and will NOT
back down. They don't like to admit that *you* may know how to parent
*their* kids better than they do.
When the conversation gets like that, I just back down and don't talk about
it anymore. I think that I got my point across and even though they won't
admit it, they probably do think about it further later on and maybe it does
impress some people to give unrestricted tv viewing a try. At least you
planted a seed - it may or may not grow.
> I guess some people don't get it and I am not the kind of person to preachI don't like to preach or convert people either. But sometimes it's just
> the topic. I don't try to convert people.
> Anyway enough rambling.
> Pam G.
frustrating when people do seem to get unschooling except for tv and gaming.
That bothers me.
Karin
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/2003 11:00:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
genant2@... writes:
however. We only have one television. The children are constantly fighting
over what to watch (with Alec usually the victor). The same is true with the
computer and the radio and the gameboy. Multiple items are not an option due
to financial and space restrictions. Any ideas on how to handle this without
"restricting" them?
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
genant2@... writes:
> I guess some people don't get it and I am not the kind of person to preachI've been following this thread with great interest! I do have a question,
> the topic. I don't try to convert people.
> Anyway enough rambling.
> Pam G.
>
however. We only have one television. The children are constantly fighting
over what to watch (with Alec usually the victor). The same is true with the
computer and the radio and the gameboy. Multiple items are not an option due
to financial and space restrictions. Any ideas on how to handle this without
"restricting" them?
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
patti.schmidt2@... wrote:
just want to say "you've almost got it... just turn this one last piece a
little" but no matter what you say they don't see that it's upside down
until they want to see it.
"but I *have* to limit tv or else they'll ___."
Karin
> It makes me think of watching someone do a jigsaw puzzle and most of it isfitting together beautifully, but the last piece is turned upside down. You
just want to say "you've almost got it... just turn this one last piece a
little" but no matter what you say they don't see that it's upside down
until they want to see it.
>It's just the image I get when someone clearly grasps unschooling except for
> I'm not saying this analogy rings true for everyone who doesn't like tv.
"but I *have* to limit tv or else they'll ___."
>That's a great analogy. Exactly.
> Patti
Karin
Kelly Lenhart
>I also know the "I know my children" stance that parents get. It's the lineThat's a catch-22, though. On the one hand, we as parents DO know our
>in the sand that they draw to say "I don't care what you say but YOUR way
>won't work in MY house! I *know* better." They get defensive and will NOT
>back down. They don't like to admit that *you* may know how to parent
>*their* kids better than they do.
>Karin
children better than anyone else. But.....we are still humans with our own
biases. And I think most people (like in this case) forget just how
influenced we all are by cultural assumptions. "TV Bad." Ugh.
It's so funny to watch my grown friends who don't have TV's not be able to
deal with the fact that we have it on at home. My one just gets mesmerized.
Now, is that TV's fault, I think not.
Kelly
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 2:26:36 PM, jidafral@... writes:
<< We only have one television. The children are constantly fighting
over what to watch (with Alec usually the victor). The same is true with the
computer and the radio and the gameboy. Multiple items are not an option due
to financial and space restrictions. Any ideas on how to handle this without
"restricting" them?
share mine).
We have no time limit, so whe someone's on they can stay on as long as they
want to. But we all like each other, so it's pretty easy to cut in to check
e-mail, and let the person back on who's playing a long game (Marty) or
reading unschooling.com (me).
With TV, what I would do is have kids declare their favorite or most
important shows, and unless there's a conflict, make sure those get watched
or recorded. If you have a VCR, maybe you can record one and watch another.
That's what we used to do when kids were little and we only had one TV.
We've had three TVs given to us over the years since we had kids, and have
bought two. Three, because Keith bought one when he was working in
Minneapolis. At the moment we have five working TVs, and the Mac plays DVDs.
But we didn't buy five TVs. And our biggish main TV was bought used form
someone Keith worked with here who was moving.
If two kids choose the same show I wouldn't "count" that one as either
person's "pick," if it gets so tight there that you're having to say no to
someone and they're counting the times.
Sandra
<< We only have one television. The children are constantly fighting
over what to watch (with Alec usually the victor). The same is true with the
computer and the radio and the gameboy. Multiple items are not an option due
to financial and space restrictions. Any ideas on how to handle this without
"restricting" them?
>>For computers, we have two now (or Kirby has one and so no longer has to
share mine).
We have no time limit, so whe someone's on they can stay on as long as they
want to. But we all like each other, so it's pretty easy to cut in to check
e-mail, and let the person back on who's playing a long game (Marty) or
reading unschooling.com (me).
With TV, what I would do is have kids declare their favorite or most
important shows, and unless there's a conflict, make sure those get watched
or recorded. If you have a VCR, maybe you can record one and watch another.
That's what we used to do when kids were little and we only had one TV.
We've had three TVs given to us over the years since we had kids, and have
bought two. Three, because Keith bought one when he was working in
Minneapolis. At the moment we have five working TVs, and the Mac plays DVDs.
But we didn't buy five TVs. And our biggish main TV was bought used form
someone Keith worked with here who was moving.
If two kids choose the same show I wouldn't "count" that one as either
person's "pick," if it gets so tight there that you're having to say no to
someone and they're counting the times.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 3:26:56 PM, mina@... writes:
<< On the one hand, we as parents DO know our
children better than anyone else. >>
I know some parents who hardly know their children at all, whatsoever. They
don't know their friends' names. They don't know anything personal about
them. They tell them to do their homework and go to bed. They tell them
"Get up and eat and get in the car." Conversations otherwise are minimal.
The kids are at school, at babysitters', at summer programs sponsored by the
city, eating free lunch in the park in the summer...
It sounds good when people say "I know my children better than anyone" but
it's not always true.
My fourth grade teacher knew things about me my mother couldn't have
comprehended. She gave me books for Christmas. The Christmas draw was
fixed, no doubt, so she could give me two science books with pictures for
Christmas. My mom gave me a stuffed monkey holding a banana and a diary. I
would have rather had books, but my mom didn't know and didn't much care.
She gave the same stuffed monkey to my sister and my two cousins. Four
matching monkeys.
Sandra
<< On the one hand, we as parents DO know our
children better than anyone else. >>
I know some parents who hardly know their children at all, whatsoever. They
don't know their friends' names. They don't know anything personal about
them. They tell them to do their homework and go to bed. They tell them
"Get up and eat and get in the car." Conversations otherwise are minimal.
The kids are at school, at babysitters', at summer programs sponsored by the
city, eating free lunch in the park in the summer...
It sounds good when people say "I know my children better than anyone" but
it's not always true.
My fourth grade teacher knew things about me my mother couldn't have
comprehended. She gave me books for Christmas. The Christmas draw was
fixed, no doubt, so she could give me two science books with pictures for
Christmas. My mom gave me a stuffed monkey holding a banana and a diary. I
would have rather had books, but my mom didn't know and didn't much care.
She gave the same stuffed monkey to my sister and my two cousins. Four
matching monkeys.
Sandra
nellebelle
----- snip----- > It's so funny to watch my grown friends who don't have
TV's not be able to deal with the fact that we have it on at home. My one
just gets mesmerized. Now, is that TV's fault, I think not.>>>>>>>
Marie Winn insists that TV itself is addictive. But later in her book she
says that mothers have to entice their young children to watch TV.
Apparently, very young children somehow sense that TV is not real, so they
have to be taught how to watch it. Once the kids are hooked, though, mother
will not be able to tear their little eyes away from its power.
Another thing that comes out in the later chapters is the author's attitude
about children. Basically, they are manipulative little creatures who only
want to do what is easy and fun. Modern parents have lost their natural
authority over children, so we have to resort to bribery to get them to do
what we want. Parents in the good old days didn't have the problems we have
today, because they (the parents) insisted on regular naptimes. As children
grew, this forced naptime became quiet time, because the children had become
accustomed to staying alone in their rooms whether they wanted to or not.
They knew that when mother said quiet time, she meant it! Mothers who
devoted their children's preschool years to teaching their children how to
use scissors and paste (messy, but worth it in the long run!) would have
children who could make collages while mother had time to get her important
things done. Therefore, the children knew how to entertain themselves.
They didn't need TV! Modern parents do not have to work at parenting,
because we rely on TV to keep our children busy and out of our way.
I am not kidding! I have summarized, but the tone is the same as the
book's. It just keeps getting more and more absurd and disgusting.
Mary Ellen
TV's not be able to deal with the fact that we have it on at home. My one
just gets mesmerized. Now, is that TV's fault, I think not.>>>>>>>
Marie Winn insists that TV itself is addictive. But later in her book she
says that mothers have to entice their young children to watch TV.
Apparently, very young children somehow sense that TV is not real, so they
have to be taught how to watch it. Once the kids are hooked, though, mother
will not be able to tear their little eyes away from its power.
Another thing that comes out in the later chapters is the author's attitude
about children. Basically, they are manipulative little creatures who only
want to do what is easy and fun. Modern parents have lost their natural
authority over children, so we have to resort to bribery to get them to do
what we want. Parents in the good old days didn't have the problems we have
today, because they (the parents) insisted on regular naptimes. As children
grew, this forced naptime became quiet time, because the children had become
accustomed to staying alone in their rooms whether they wanted to or not.
They knew that when mother said quiet time, she meant it! Mothers who
devoted their children's preschool years to teaching their children how to
use scissors and paste (messy, but worth it in the long run!) would have
children who could make collages while mother had time to get her important
things done. Therefore, the children knew how to entertain themselves.
They didn't need TV! Modern parents do not have to work at parenting,
because we rely on TV to keep our children busy and out of our way.
I am not kidding! I have summarized, but the tone is the same as the
book's. It just keeps getting more and more absurd and disgusting.
Mary Ellen
kayb85
--- In [email protected], starsuncloud@c... wrote:
Sheila
> In a message dated 3/25/03 1:04:38 PM Central Standard Time,He's
> [email protected] writes:
>
> <<
> Dh wants to know how Kirby knows the game comes in today at 11:00,
> because he has pre-ordered Zelda and hasn't gotten a call yet.
> very anxious. :)We called them and got the game. :)
> >>
>
> Don't expect a call. You better call them....that's what we did.
Sheila
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 6:26:08 PM, nellebelle@... writes:
<< But later in her book she
says that mothers have to entice their young children to watch TV.
Apparently, very young children somehow sense that TV is not real, so they
have to be taught how to watch it. >>
That's very strange.
Especially if she thinks it's addictive, why would a mother "entice" them any
more than she would get them training-cocaine or blow cigarette smoke into
their noses?
But the idea that children wouldn't look at moving pictures with music and
funny voices makes me think maybe the woman is from another planet, or very
old.
Holly and I watched a DVD of old Howdy Doody shows. The production level was
really low. The most interesting parts were the commercials for those new
products, Twinkies and Hostess Snowballs. Because they were black and white
and didn't look very appetizing, the verbal descriptions were really
detailed. At the end of one episode they talked about telling your parents
you want to go to Sunday School and church, or the place of worship of your
choice. And at the end of another one they said kids should take a paper bag
in the "automobile" so that instead of throwing trash out the windows, people
could put it in the bag!!
Holly loved that part.
I have told the kids people used to just throw trash out of cars, and they
kinda believed me, but couldn't really grasp it as common. Maybe they
thought I just had a trashy family.
So when Howdy Doody was the best thing for kids and there were only three
channels (if that) and some of today's childhood development people were in
college, TV was probably not worth defending.
The context now is altogether different. Videos and DVDs change everything.
Sandra
<< But later in her book she
says that mothers have to entice their young children to watch TV.
Apparently, very young children somehow sense that TV is not real, so they
have to be taught how to watch it. >>
That's very strange.
Especially if she thinks it's addictive, why would a mother "entice" them any
more than she would get them training-cocaine or blow cigarette smoke into
their noses?
But the idea that children wouldn't look at moving pictures with music and
funny voices makes me think maybe the woman is from another planet, or very
old.
Holly and I watched a DVD of old Howdy Doody shows. The production level was
really low. The most interesting parts were the commercials for those new
products, Twinkies and Hostess Snowballs. Because they were black and white
and didn't look very appetizing, the verbal descriptions were really
detailed. At the end of one episode they talked about telling your parents
you want to go to Sunday School and church, or the place of worship of your
choice. And at the end of another one they said kids should take a paper bag
in the "automobile" so that instead of throwing trash out the windows, people
could put it in the bag!!
Holly loved that part.
I have told the kids people used to just throw trash out of cars, and they
kinda believed me, but couldn't really grasp it as common. Maybe they
thought I just had a trashy family.
So when Howdy Doody was the best thing for kids and there were only three
channels (if that) and some of today's childhood development people were in
college, TV was probably not worth defending.
The context now is altogether different. Videos and DVDs change everything.
Sandra
Mary
From: SandraDodd@...
<<With TV, what I would do is have kids declare their favorite or most
important shows, and unless there's a conflict, make sure those get watched
or recorded. If you have a VCR, maybe you can record one and watch another.
That's what we used to do when kids were little and we only had one TV.>>
I agree with Sandra. If the kids each have favorites, try to find a way, hopefully that they both can watch them. We have 4 tv's here and still the kids occasionally have a squabble over the tv. Mostly because they all like to watch in the playroom. With me though, I just try and send one somewhere else to watch. Once in awhile, one child will go into the playroom to watch tv and one other one will follow just because. Then that 2nd person wants control over the remote. I make sure that the first person to go in to specifically watch tv is the one that gets the remote. Seems only fair because it was their idea first. We don't have time limits either as no one child here really has a favorite show that they can't miss. Generally if Joseph has had enough of Animal Planet, he'll get up and go play. If we only had one tv and Sierra had been watching for an hour or so, I would try to make a compromise so the other one who isn't interested can have some time with something different.
With the computer, we have 2 hear. One in the library/computer room and one in Joseph's room. Joseph doesn't have internet access yet as he hasn't cleaned his room from all the stuff so Joe can get in there to hook it up!!! Whoever gets on or asks for the computer first has it until they want off. My kids are good as they usually watch the other one and more times than not, the first one on will ask the other if they want a turn to play. The less fuss you make about it, and be matter of fact and show concern for both, the quicker the kids will work out something on their own too.
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<With TV, what I would do is have kids declare their favorite or most
important shows, and unless there's a conflict, make sure those get watched
or recorded. If you have a VCR, maybe you can record one and watch another.
That's what we used to do when kids were little and we only had one TV.>>
I agree with Sandra. If the kids each have favorites, try to find a way, hopefully that they both can watch them. We have 4 tv's here and still the kids occasionally have a squabble over the tv. Mostly because they all like to watch in the playroom. With me though, I just try and send one somewhere else to watch. Once in awhile, one child will go into the playroom to watch tv and one other one will follow just because. Then that 2nd person wants control over the remote. I make sure that the first person to go in to specifically watch tv is the one that gets the remote. Seems only fair because it was their idea first. We don't have time limits either as no one child here really has a favorite show that they can't miss. Generally if Joseph has had enough of Animal Planet, he'll get up and go play. If we only had one tv and Sierra had been watching for an hour or so, I would try to make a compromise so the other one who isn't interested can have some time with something different.
With the computer, we have 2 hear. One in the library/computer room and one in Joseph's room. Joseph doesn't have internet access yet as he hasn't cleaned his room from all the stuff so Joe can get in there to hook it up!!! Whoever gets on or asks for the computer first has it until they want off. My kids are good as they usually watch the other one and more times than not, the first one on will ask the other if they want a turn to play. The less fuss you make about it, and be matter of fact and show concern for both, the quicker the kids will work out something on their own too.
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma *
>>She bought them a Sega, the kids LOVED Sonic the Hedghog, her daughter,VERY cool website. VERY cool girl!
>>who was fairly young then but is 18 now, has a website that discusses what
>>happened next.
>
>http://sonic_resuki.tripod.com/the_resuki_project/
>
>all that art and web design is hers.>>
I laughed when she said that she sometimes plays online games as a man.
Conor told me that on one site he ususally plays as a girl because they
treat him nicer that way and give him more breaks as a newbie.
He does get tired of getting hit on though. <g>
Life is good.
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."
~ Thich Nhat Hanh
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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zenmomma *
>>We only have one television. The children are constantly fightingover what to watch (with Alec usually the victor). The same is true with
the computer and the radio and the gameboy. Multiple items are not an
option due to financial and space restrictions. Any ideas on how to handle
this without "restricting" them?>>
Maybe a "wait list" for when an item is in big demand. That way they know
they'll get a turn and it won't be forgotten.
Life is good.
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."
~ Thich Nhat Hanh
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/2003 6:06:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
kidding! I can't imagine this working in our house, but it hasn't come up
yet, so I'm hopeful.
Wouldn't this interfere with letting the day flow? I mean, Alec won't go out
the play if he feels like it if Spongebob is on in half an hour. Or do you
mean that i.e. Alec declares Spongebob and anytime it is discovered to be on,
it is watched? I really can't follow exactly what you are suggesting here.
Btw, our VCR can't record while we watch something else.
Also, Kelson (3) is constantly being overruled by the other two. He _never_
get's to watch what he wants. Sometimes Freya is in a "motherly" mood and
will let him pick something, but then Alec complains about the "baby" shows.
I'm really at my wits end and we had quite a blow up today. I admit it - I
lost my temper - <very embarrassed look on my face>. It is so hard to listen
to constant whining (Freya) and yelling (Alec) and crying (Kelson). We just
got a satellite dish four weeks ago and this has been a problem ever since.
We got it in order to have the variety for the kids "schooling" (and I admit,
to watch the war coverage), but I'm tempted to cancel it! When we had only
an arial (sp?) there was nothing on they wanted to watch between 12 and 4!
Sigh! I hope the novelty will wear off soon.
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> We have no time limit, so whe someone's on they can stay on as long as theySo, maybe the problem is that my children don't like each other? Just
> want to. But we all like each other, so it's pretty easy to cut in to
> check
> e-mail, and let the person back on who's playing a long game (Marty) or
> reading unschooling.com (me).
kidding! I can't imagine this working in our house, but it hasn't come up
yet, so I'm hopeful.
>Do you think I should let the children each peruse the guide each morning?
> With TV, what I would do is have kids declare their favorite or most
> important shows, and unless there's a conflict, make sure those get watched
> or recorded. If you have a VCR, maybe you can record one and watch
> another.
> That's what we used to do when kids were little and we only had one TV.
>
Wouldn't this interfere with letting the day flow? I mean, Alec won't go out
the play if he feels like it if Spongebob is on in half an hour. Or do you
mean that i.e. Alec declares Spongebob and anytime it is discovered to be on,
it is watched? I really can't follow exactly what you are suggesting here.
Btw, our VCR can't record while we watch something else.
Also, Kelson (3) is constantly being overruled by the other two. He _never_
get's to watch what he wants. Sometimes Freya is in a "motherly" mood and
will let him pick something, but then Alec complains about the "baby" shows.
I'm really at my wits end and we had quite a blow up today. I admit it - I
lost my temper - <very embarrassed look on my face>. It is so hard to listen
to constant whining (Freya) and yelling (Alec) and crying (Kelson). We just
got a satellite dish four weeks ago and this has been a problem ever since.
We got it in order to have the variety for the kids "schooling" (and I admit,
to watch the war coverage), but I'm tempted to cancel it! When we had only
an arial (sp?) there was nothing on they wanted to watch between 12 and 4!
Sigh! I hope the novelty will wear off soon.
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/2003 9:46:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mummy124@... writes:
they want off, he will never leave! He has turned around to me and said,
"Mom, my neck is killing me and I'm getting a headache." (he gets migranes)
So I tell him that he needs to get off the computer and let his neck and eyes
rest. He just turns around and continues to play another three hours until
dinner time, gets a migrane, and is miserable all evening!!! Of course this
is the same kid that will refuse to make his own sandwich no matter how
hungry he is! I don't know how he got so (what's a nice word for stubborn?).
The less fuss you make about it, and be matter of fact and show concern for
both,
I've apologized. I really wish they'd hurry up and figure it out, though!!!!!
Thanks!
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummy124@... writes:
> Whoever gets on or asks for the computer first has it until they want off.This does happen often with the computer, but if I allow Alec to play until
> My kids are good as they usually watch the other one and more times than
> not, the first one on will ask the other if they want a turn to play.
they want off, he will never leave! He has turned around to me and said,
"Mom, my neck is killing me and I'm getting a headache." (he gets migranes)
So I tell him that he needs to get off the computer and let his neck and eyes
rest. He just turns around and continues to play another three hours until
dinner time, gets a migrane, and is miserable all evening!!! Of course this
is the same kid that will refuse to make his own sandwich no matter how
hungry he is! I don't know how he got so (what's a nice word for stubborn?).
The less fuss you make about it, and be matter of fact and show concern for
both,
> the quicker the kids will work out something on their own too.OOps!!! See my previous post! I did lose my temper today. I know, I know,
>
I've apologized. I really wish they'd hurry up and figure it out, though!!!!!
Thanks!
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/2003 9:50:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> Maybe a "wait list" for when an item is in big demand. That way they knowCan you elaborate?
> they'll get a turn and it won't be forgotten.
>
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 9:14:24 PM, jidafral@... writes:
<< So, maybe the problem is that my children don't like each other? Just
kidding! I can't imagine this working in our house, but it hasn't come up
yet, so I'm hopeful. >>
When they were littler we had just strict rotation. It's Kirby's turn until
he's done, whether half an hour or three hours. Then Marty (or whoever).
Then Holly, who never played more than fifteen or twenty minutes when she
was little (still, not long). But whoever had it played until stopping
voluntarily.
We still do it, it's just more open to negotiation now than it was then (when
they didn't like each other so much).
Holly was on while I was watching 24, but got off on her own. I'm on for a
while and Marty's next. When he gets on it will probably be until 3:00 a.m.
When I get up I'll get on uninterrupted for a while in the morning.
Sandra
<< So, maybe the problem is that my children don't like each other? Just
kidding! I can't imagine this working in our house, but it hasn't come up
yet, so I'm hopeful. >>
When they were littler we had just strict rotation. It's Kirby's turn until
he's done, whether half an hour or three hours. Then Marty (or whoever).
Then Holly, who never played more than fifteen or twenty minutes when she
was little (still, not long). But whoever had it played until stopping
voluntarily.
We still do it, it's just more open to negotiation now than it was then (when
they didn't like each other so much).
Holly was on while I was watching 24, but got off on her own. I'm on for a
while and Marty's next. When he gets on it will probably be until 3:00 a.m.
When I get up I'll get on uninterrupted for a while in the morning.
Sandra
Stephanie Elms
> I've been following this thread with great interest! I doGet another tv?? I am serious...check the penny saver or thrift stores. We just put
> have a question,
> however. We only have one television. The children are
> constantly fighting
> over what to watch (with Alec usually the victor). The same
> is true with the
> computer and the radio and the gameboy. Multiple items are
> not an option due
> to financial and space restrictions. Any ideas on how to
> handle this without
> "restricting" them?
another tv in the living room (in addition to the one in the family room and our
bedroom) and it has been great. Actually it has helped dh more then anyone else...no
more fighting the kids to watch his sports on the weekends. :o) Do you have any friends
or family who are going to upgrade and could give you their old one? maybe put the word
out that you are in the market for a good deal...you never know what might show up!
Dh also just got us a second computer for the kids and me (he has his own consulting
company and got one they were getting rid of).
Before all this though we would alternate tv shows (whoever was watching got to finish
what they were watching and then it was the others turn). As far as computer time, we
pretty much let whoever was on the computer play until he was done (how can you really
know how much time is fair?). I would just make a conscious effort to do something with
the one who was waiting. I would also help them negotiate with each other to come up
with something that worked. One nice thing that happened was that they quickly realized
that if they were good about letting the other have a turn, the other would return the favor.
My boys are 6 and 3...
Stephanie E.
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/2003 11:57:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
stephanie.elms@... writes:
about a 2-3 foot border around. I suppose we could put a small one on the
dresser in the boys' room, but then we'd have the additional monthly payment
for satellite. We have no family room, living room is about 13' x 14' (I
don't think a second tv in the living room would work, they'd keep turning
theirs up to hear over each other!), small kitchen, decent dining area, but
computer is in there! How sturdy are those wall-mounted shelves? Have to
run it by dh (who _hates_ having the television on longer than for a certain
program).
Thanks, will consider it, for my sanity!
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stephanie.elms@... writes:
> Get another tv?? I am serious...check the penny saver or thrift stores. WeSigh! We have no space in our very small home. Bedrooms fit the bed with
> just put
> another tv in the living room (in addition to the one in the family room
> and our
> bedroom) and it has been great
about a 2-3 foot border around. I suppose we could put a small one on the
dresser in the boys' room, but then we'd have the additional monthly payment
for satellite. We have no family room, living room is about 13' x 14' (I
don't think a second tv in the living room would work, they'd keep turning
theirs up to hear over each other!), small kitchen, decent dining area, but
computer is in there! How sturdy are those wall-mounted shelves? Have to
run it by dh (who _hates_ having the television on longer than for a certain
program).
Thanks, will consider it, for my sanity!
Darla
Homeschooling Mom to Freya, Alec, and Kelson!
Wife to Jim.
Read my waterbirth story
http://ourworld.cs.com/darlathedoula/myhomepage/family.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 9:48:15 PM, jidafral@... writes:
<< "Mom, my neck is killing me and I'm getting a headache." (he gets
migranes)
So I tell him that he needs to get off the computer and let his neck and eyes
rest. He just turns around and continues to play another three hours until
dinner time, gets a migrane, and is miserable all evening!!!>>
Does he need glasses?
Or is he at the growing-pains stage, adolescent and having different parts of
him growing at different rates? And is it truly migraine or could it
possibly be protein deprivation? Can he get a protein snack at the computer
three hours before dinner?
<<Of course this
is the same kid that will refuse to make his own sandwich no matter how
hungry he is! I don't know how he got so (what's a nice word for stubborn?).
ton from." Maybe he's doing two things at once, as I always have and still
do. I'll put on a pattern game and be thinking LOTS and hard about something
in my life. Yesterday it was the possibility of getting Marty into the
Junior Police Academy. I thought it from lots of angles, but needed to be
doing something else while I was doing it. I would not have stopped to eat
until was through processing. I got two calls from police officers during
that time. That was all more important than food to me at the time.
Take him food! If what he's doing weren't important to him, he wouldn't be
doing it.
I had a lot of headaches when I was 12 and 13. In retrospect, I think I
needed more protein, but I remember my whole body just being wrong,
uncomfortable, awkward, and foreign. Joints hurt. Head and neck hurt, hands
hurt when I played piano sometimes. I didn't need glasses, but sometimes it
seemed like it.
Sandra
<< "Mom, my neck is killing me and I'm getting a headache." (he gets
migranes)
So I tell him that he needs to get off the computer and let his neck and eyes
rest. He just turns around and continues to play another three hours until
dinner time, gets a migrane, and is miserable all evening!!!>>
Does he need glasses?
Or is he at the growing-pains stage, adolescent and having different parts of
him growing at different rates? And is it truly migraine or could it
possibly be protein deprivation? Can he get a protein snack at the computer
three hours before dinner?
<<Of course this
is the same kid that will refuse to make his own sandwich no matter how
hungry he is! I don't know how he got so (what's a nice word for stubborn?).
>>Maybe it's not stubborn. Maybe it's "engrossed in something he's learning a
ton from." Maybe he's doing two things at once, as I always have and still
do. I'll put on a pattern game and be thinking LOTS and hard about something
in my life. Yesterday it was the possibility of getting Marty into the
Junior Police Academy. I thought it from lots of angles, but needed to be
doing something else while I was doing it. I would not have stopped to eat
until was through processing. I got two calls from police officers during
that time. That was all more important than food to me at the time.
Take him food! If what he's doing weren't important to him, he wouldn't be
doing it.
I had a lot of headaches when I was 12 and 13. In retrospect, I think I
needed more protein, but I remember my whole body just being wrong,
uncomfortable, awkward, and foreign. Joints hurt. Head and neck hurt, hands
hurt when I played piano sometimes. I didn't need glasses, but sometimes it
seemed like it.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/03 9:59:39 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:
<< As far as computer time, we
pretty much let whoever was on the computer play until he was done (how can
you really
know how much time is fair?). I would just make a conscious effort to do
something with
the one who was waiting. I would also help them negotiate with each other to
come up
with something that worked. One nice thing that happened was that they
quickly realized
that if they were good about letting the other have a turn, the other would
return the favor.
My boys are 6 and 3... >>
All true here too. I forgot to mention the appeasement of the one whose turn
it wasn't. <g>
And we've had that tradition of turns since the kids were that young. If
they're not being rushed, there's no desperation, and no incentive to play
longer than they really want to.
Sandra
writes:
<< As far as computer time, we
pretty much let whoever was on the computer play until he was done (how can
you really
know how much time is fair?). I would just make a conscious effort to do
something with
the one who was waiting. I would also help them negotiate with each other to
come up
with something that worked. One nice thing that happened was that they
quickly realized
that if they were good about letting the other have a turn, the other would
return the favor.
My boys are 6 and 3... >>
All true here too. I forgot to mention the appeasement of the one whose turn
it wasn't. <g>
And we've had that tradition of turns since the kids were that young. If
they're not being rushed, there's no desperation, and no incentive to play
longer than they really want to.
Sandra