k montoya

FWIW from a lurker, quick and dirty intro: Kim
Montoya, married 2 dh Chuck 4 10 years, Las Cruces,
New Mexico, dd8 Carla, ds6 Ted, not/un/de-schooling
since Oct 2002...

I am typing one-handed with a broken arm gotten
SKATEBOARDING 2 weeks ago today...I hit a pebble on
the FLAT...it WILL happen. I now have technicolor
knees and a bruise on my left boob too<weg>!

{yes, I AM 37, quit yer snickerin'}

I wear pads/guards/helmet for inline, sk8boarding and
a helmet 4 biking...except that friday! MY rigid wrist
guards were off 'cause I FORGOT them after changing
Ted over from shoes 2 sk8s, he is boarding and inline
sk8ing. My internist broke her wrist inlne sk8ing a
couple of years back WEARING IDENTICAL GUARDS. There
are no guarantees.

Sk8ing is dangerous, done skillfully MORE so, as is
most kid-type biking. What fun! But someone biffs it
bad on sk8s, boards or (next door to the sk8park) at
the BMX bike run every couple of weeks here--we see
it.

I think my kids will continue to want to wear their
padding/helmets. At least they said they will remind
me to wear mine, they see how much my broken arm sux,
and they also know that I REALLY believe that if I
hadn't forgotten the guard, I MIGHT have just bruised
it instead----wahhhhhhh <g>...

I didn't have pads or helmet as a kid, I crashed
bikes, sk8s and boards regularly, nothing ever broken
but knees scarred to heck STILL, bonked head, jambed
fingers, bad bruises, a scab somewhere always!
I have ALL kinds of safety gear as an adult, for
myself and the kids (and extras). I think some of it
is well made and does protect, but how well?? Dunno,
really, but I use it.

I did START putting helmets on them as naturally as
breathing from the first time they toddled over to a
trike-they see me wear mine 2 bike 2...they have never
asked if they HAVE to wear them, they think they are
quite cool. Mine is purple, has flames and anime
stickers, what can I SAY? <wink>

There is a pretty steep 7+ foot deep bowl @ our
sk8park, Ted fell right into it his first day out (of
course!) got the wind knocked out pretty hard @ was
glad of his helmet. (Me too)!

Would I FORCE them to wear the safety gear? No. With
this, like with everything else, I try to set an
honest example using my best judgement, and talk about
it sometimes out loud while considering the options.
And I talked some about my own consequences, so they
see I am not beating myself up over making a mistake
and forgetting something!

I can't wait till my arm heals, I have a **BRAND NEW**
Yu-Gi-Oh sk8board (blue, dark Yugi), prezzie from my
dh <smile>! 4 weeks 2 go till I back in action on it.
{Huzzah for HEALTH INSURANCE!!}
Loving this list,
Kim

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In a message dated 3/22/03 12:18:52 AM, kimontoya@... writes:

<< I am typing one-handed with a broken arm gotten
SKATEBOARDING 2 weeks ago today...I hit a pebble on
the FLAT...it WILL happen. >>

Yikes!

Well...
Good to see someone else from New Mexico here!
One-armed typing always impresses me.

<< I try to set an
honest example using my best judgement, and talk about
it sometimes out loud while considering the options.>>

The example I set is "Stay out of the skate park!" because I'm a wimp. <g>

We have a bike trailer, an old one, rear-facing with the straps gone, and
sometimes Holly hooks it to her bike and gives the younger neighbors rides
around the cul-de-sac. The other day she hooked it to her unicycle,
thinking maybe it would give her the tri-cycle effect (because she's still a
beginner at the unicycle), but it pulled the unicycle back some and made it
harder. She hauled it on around a few times anyway, to see if she could get
it to work.

Sandra

Elizabeth Roberts

There are SO many things that I taught myself...to
read music, play a couple intrusments, to type (which
my DH thinks is hilarious, because while I'm accurate
and fast and I don't look at the keyboard...I don't
use all my fingers!!)....

From about the age of 12 to 17, I wanted to be a Navy
pilot...I wanted to fly the F-14 Tomcat. We'd moved to
Bermuda and the library was just getting computerized
that summer. SO I volunteered to help, and found a
textbook on aviation...went from your basic terms all
the way into dogfighting maneuvers.

I went and bought a couple Hot Wheels planes and went
through that book and had a good time..I don't
remember much from it now, but I remember sitting
there at an Air Show and when I wasn't performing
(cheerleader and dance team) I hung out with the crews
of two Tomcats who were there for the demo. They
couldn't believe this bouncy little 14 year old
cheerleader knew nearly as much as they did about what
they did for a living! I'd peppered them with
questions, got my mother to have them over for dinner
(!!)...spent a weekend in heaven basically.

Turned out that while by the time I graduated I could
have been a fighter pilot as my gender was no longer
an issue...my poor vision sure was!!!

I still want to learn to fly someday....and my FIL has
said if I ever get my pilot's license he'd buy me a
plane to go with it!! (he flew once).

I've always wondered what I would have done/learned if
I hadn't been held back by public education...

....ANYWAY...sorry for rambling...

Elizabeth


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Elizabeth Roberts

LMAO...so here I'm saying my typing is fast and
accurate and what do I do but spell "Instruments"
incorrectly!!

Elizabeth

--- Elizabeth Roberts <ladyeliza_r@...> wrote:
> There are SO many things that I taught myself...to
> read music, play a couple intrusments, to type
> (which
> my DH thinks is hilarious, because while I'm
> accurate
> and fast and I don't look at the keyboard...I don't
> use all my fingers!!)....
>
> From about the age of 12 to 17, I wanted to be a
> Navy
> pilot...I wanted to fly the F-14 Tomcat. We'd moved
> to
> Bermuda and the library was just getting
> computerized
> that summer. SO I volunteered to help, and found a
> textbook on aviation...went from your basic terms
> all
> the way into dogfighting maneuvers.
>
> I went and bought a couple Hot Wheels planes and
> went
> through that book and had a good time..I don't
> remember much from it now, but I remember sitting
> there at an Air Show and when I wasn't performing
> (cheerleader and dance team) I hung out with the
> crews
> of two Tomcats who were there for the demo. They
> couldn't believe this bouncy little 14 year old
> cheerleader knew nearly as much as they did about
> what
> they did for a living! I'd peppered them with
> questions, got my mother to have them over for
> dinner
> (!!)...spent a weekend in heaven basically.
>
> Turned out that while by the time I graduated I
> could
> have been a fighter pilot as my gender was no longer
> an issue...my poor vision sure was!!!
>
> I still want to learn to fly someday....and my FIL
> has
> said if I ever get my pilot's license he'd buy me a
> plane to go with it!! (he flew once).
>
> I've always wondered what I would have done/learned
> if
> I hadn't been held back by public education...
>
> ....ANYWAY...sorry for rambling...
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness,
> live on your desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>


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Sorcha

>>There are SO many things that I taught myself...<<

Now you're starting to get it. I'm glad you're starting to think this
way instead of leaving in a huff after the suggestion that you toss
Sonlight (stick around a few months and keep an open mind. You'll be
posting to tell us you have dropped curriculum and we can all
congratulate you!)

Sorcha


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/22/03 10:16:04 AM, ladyeliza_r@... writes:

<< I hung out with the crews
of two Tomcats who were there for the demo. They
couldn't believe this bouncy little 14 year old
cheerleader knew nearly as much as they did about what
they did for a living! I'd peppered them with
questions, got my mother to have them over for dinner
(!!)...spent a weekend in heaven basically. >>

Very cool story. I saved it!!

Elizabeth Roberts

Someone suggested I toss Sonlight? HUH?! Must have
missed that...leave in a huff over it? NAH! We're
enjoying Sonlight but I want to get away from it being
the main resource for their education, and more like a
supplement if that makes sense.

Elizabeth

--- Sorcha <sorcha-aisling@...> wrote:
> >>There are SO many things that I taught myself...<<
>
> Now you're starting to get it. I'm glad you're
> starting to think this
> way instead of leaving in a huff after the
> suggestion that you toss
> Sonlight (stick around a few months and keep an open
> mind. You'll be
> posting to tell us you have dropped curriculum and
> we can all
> congratulate you!)
>
> Sorcha
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Elizabeth Roberts

One of my most treasured memories really...they took
me seriously and they could have just blown me off,
you know? I have a photo of me and "my guys" ... maybe
one of these days I'll get it scanned. Dish (his last
name was Petrie!), Gumby, Max and Buster were their
callsigns. I don't think I ever knew their real
names!! They called me Einstein...which of course,
others found out about and started calling me (not
like I wasn't used to being a nerd anyway) so when I
found a Tshirt with an Andy Warhol-type Einstein on it
(four blocks of a different color with a different
colored Einstein in the block)...I took it and sewed
it onto the back of my jean jacket!

Elizabeth

--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/22/03 10:16:04 AM,
> ladyeliza_r@... writes:
>
> << I hung out with the crews
> of two Tomcats who were there for the demo. They
> couldn't believe this bouncy little 14 year old
> cheerleader knew nearly as much as they did about
> what
> they did for a living! I'd peppered them with
> questions, got my mother to have them over for
> dinner
> (!!)...spent a weekend in heaven basically. >>
>
> Very cool story. I saved it!!
>


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Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

At 11:34 AM 3/22/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Someone suggested I toss Sonlight? HUH?! Must have
>missed that...leave in a huff over it? NAH! We're
>enjoying Sonlight but I want to get away from it being
>the main resource for their education, and more like a
>supplement if that makes sense.

I'd use it as a resource to maybe prop up the wobbly leg on my favorite
chair or keep my icy drink from making a white ring on the side table, but
as a supplement, I think it's just too fibrous. All that paper. Oh, you
didn't mean DIETARY supplement?

Well, then, what could you mean?
You couldn't possibly mean that you *need* the school-in-a-box to have
bright, intelligent, inquisitive, happy kids do you?

HeidiWD

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/22/03 3:59:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, heidi@...
writes:

> Well, then, what could you mean?
> You couldn't possibly mean that you *need* the school-in-a-box to have
> bright, intelligent, inquisitive, happy kids do you?
>
>

That was a nice gentle way to put it.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Roberts

What paper? The majority of Sonlight is BOOKS. One
instructor's guide (re: schedule and notes, activity
sheets for Language Arts and Science) but that's maybe
20% of it at best.

Elizabeth

--- Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema <heidi@...> wrote:
> At 11:34 AM 3/22/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >Someone suggested I toss Sonlight? HUH?! Must have
> >missed that...leave in a huff over it? NAH! We're
> >enjoying Sonlight but I want to get away from it
> being
> >the main resource for their education, and more
> like a
> >supplement if that makes sense.
>
> I'd use it as a resource to maybe prop up the wobbly
> leg on my favorite
> chair or keep my icy drink from making a white ring
> on the side table, but
> as a supplement, I think it's just too fibrous. All
> that paper. Oh, you
> didn't mean DIETARY supplement?
>
> Well, then, what could you mean?
> You couldn't possibly mean that you *need* the
> school-in-a-box to have
> bright, intelligent, inquisitive, happy kids do you?
>
> HeidiWD
>
>


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Elizabeth Roberts

I mean that I am very disorganized person and having
the schedule has greatly improved how things are
happening here in my house between Sarah and I. Prior
to this, and we use it loosely I might add, we fought
over EVERYTHING related to ANYTHING that wasn't "I
want to watch nothing but TV"

Elizabeth

--- genant2@... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/22/03 3:59:17 PM Eastern
> Standard Time, heidi@...
> writes:
>
> > Well, then, what could you mean?
> > You couldn't possibly mean that you *need* the
> school-in-a-box to have
> > bright, intelligent, inquisitive, happy kids do
> you?
> >
> >
>
> That was a nice gentle way to put it.
> Pam G.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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[email protected]

In a message dated 3/22/03 11:10:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> We have a bike trailer, an old one, rear-facing with the straps gone, and
> sometimes Holly hooks it to her bike and gives the younger neighbors rides
> around the cul-de-sac.

My kids still do that too. Its funny seeing JP at barely 50 pounds pulling
Ethan at 110 pounds around in that bike trailer.. But he doesnt seem to
mind.. they take turns hauling each other, thier toys, the dog, sticks..
heck, whatever they can find to haul around. They have also attached that
bike trailer to all sorts of other "vehicles" Thier big wheels, thier
scooters, an old peddal tractor. Dont ask me how they rig it up, its
creative engineering :-)

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/22/03 4:33:28 PM, ladyeliza_r@... writes:

<< What paper? The majority of Sonlight is BOOKS. One
instructor's guide (re: schedule and notes, activity
sheets for Language Arts and Science) but that's maybe
20% of it at best. >>

Still, it's not unschooling, and every bit of schooling has to be undone
before unschooling will work.

Sandra

Elizabeth Roberts

and just because they are linked to an instructor's
guide makes them worthless? I think not. I'm not at
all bound by their suggestions or timeline or anything
like it is. We've already rearranged and "read ahead"
and such.

I am also in a state (and a personal situation) that
would make it difficult at this time to "chuck it all
out the window" and go completely into unschooling.
Later on, when we are completely free and clear and
able to, we intend to.

E

--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/22/03 4:33:28 PM,
> ladyeliza_r@... writes:
>
> << What paper? The majority of Sonlight is BOOKS.
> One
> instructor's guide (re: schedule and notes, activity
> sheets for Language Arts and Science) but that's
> maybe
> 20% of it at best. >>
>
> Still, it's not unschooling, and every bit of
> schooling has to be undone
> before unschooling will work.
>
> Sandra
>


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kayb85

Which state is that? If those of us in PA can do it, anyone can. :)
Sheila

> I am also in a state (and a personal situation) that
> would make it difficult at this time to "chuck it all
> out the window" and go completely into unschooling.
> Later on, when we are completely free and clear and
> able to, we intend to.
>
> E

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/22/03 7:49:01 PM, ladyeliza_r@... writes:

<< I'm not at
all bound by their suggestions or timeline or anything
like it is. We've already rearranged and "read ahead"
and such.
>>

If that's as far as you can go into creativity and flexibility, then it's
better than nothing.

<<I am also in a state (and a personal situation) that
would make it difficult at this time to "chuck it all
out the window" and go completely into unschooling.>>

Then what's your purpose for posting so much on an unschooling list?

If you're interested in reading about unschooling, there's lots at
www.unschooling.com, some more at sandradodd.com, many other sites online
(linked from both of those, many of them).

When people come to this list and read twenty posts from someone who
admitedly isn't unschooling, what is the benefit to them?

Sandra

Elizabeth Roberts

MA. I don't know much about how other states go, I
just know the problems I have had here already.

E

--- kayb85 <sheran@...> wrote:
> Which state is that? If those of us in PA can do
> it, anyone can. :)
> Sheila
>
> > I am also in a state (and a personal situation)
> that
> > would make it difficult at this time to "chuck it
> all
> > out the window" and go completely into
> unschooling.
> > Later on, when we are completely free and clear
> and
> > able to, we intend to.
> >
> > E
>
>
>


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Elizabeth Roberts

Why am I posting? Gee..to LEARN something from those
here such as I requested in my initial posting and
have received?!

As the main page for the group states "(If) you'd like
to find out more about how video games and life in
general are filled with learning, come join
us!...Everyone with an interest in unschooling is
welcome to join this discussion, but we ask that you
keep in mind the purpose of this list, which is to
discuss unschooling in ways designed to help each
other become unschoolers or become better at
unschooling."

I am not above questioning myself and my decisions or
reasonings for my decisions, like a tree in a storm if
I don't bend, I'd break. However bending too fast can
prove just as damaging as a break.

So what if I'm not ready or able to entirely unschool
at this time? Does that mean I'm not welcome here
despite the welcoming opening and things I have
already gained from being here? Does it mean that if I
don't rush into this without a full understanding and
consideration that I'm bound to ruin my children's
lives? I'd rather take the time to learn, question if
needed, and be certain than to rush things and harm
them in the process.

E



> In a message dated 3/22/03 7:49:01 PM,
> ladyeliza_r@... writes:
>
> << I'm not at
> all bound by their suggestions or timeline or
> anything
> like it is. We've already rearranged and "read
> ahead"
> and such.
> >>
>
> If that's as far as you can go into creativity and
> flexibility, then it's
> better than nothing.
>
> <<I am also in a state (and a personal situation)
> that
> would make it difficult at this time to "chuck it
> all
> out the window" and go completely into
> unschooling.>>
>
> Then what's your purpose for posting so much on an
> unschooling list?
>
> If you're interested in reading about unschooling,
> there's lots at
> www.unschooling.com, some more at sandradodd.com,
> many other sites online
> (linked from both of those, many of them).
>
> When people come to this list and read twenty posts
> from someone who
> admitedly isn't unschooling, what is the benefit to
> them?
>
> Sandra
>


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Mary

From: Elizabeth Roberts
<<and just because they are linked to an instructor's
guide makes them worthless? I think not. I'm not at
all bound by their suggestions or timeline or anything
like it is. We've already rearranged and "read ahead"
and such.

I am also in a state (and a personal situation) that
would make it difficult at this time to "chuck it all
out the window" and go completely into unschooling.
Later on, when we are completely free and clear and
able to, we intend to.>>


If your child can willingly tell you she doesn't want to do them anymore, every day of the week, and you listen, then no they aren't worthless. Reading ahead and not going in order, but still "having" to use them in some way, is not even close to unschooling.

If you intend to unschool sometime when you "can" then putting away the school stuff is the easiest way to "ease" into it. It's certainly the first place to start.

Mary B




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon and Rue Kream

There are lots of us unschooling in MA. It's nowhere near impossible.
~Rue


"-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth Roberts [mailto:ladyeliza_r@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Now that I think of it...

MA. I don't know much about how other states go, I
just know the problems I have had here already.

E"



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/22/03 8:58:09 PM, ladyeliza_r@... writes:

<< Does it mean that if I
don't rush into this without a full understanding and
consideration that I'm bound to ruin my children's
lives? >>

Not "bound to" but you do run more risk of wasting time than if you read and
honestly consider the ideas people are sharing with you.

With the ellipesis, did you leave out the part about reading a while before
posting?

[ "(If) you'd like
to find out more about how video games and life in
general are filled with learning, come join
us!...Everyone with an interest in unschooling is
welcome to join this discussion, but we ask that you
keep in mind the purpose of this list, which is to
discuss unschooling in ways designed to help each
other become unschoolers or become better at
unschooling."]

Sandra

Sorcha

>>>and just because they are linked to an instructor's
guide makes them worthless? I think not. I'm not at
all bound by their suggestions or timeline or anything
like it is.<<<

I don't think anyone was saying that. I personally like to have a few
"instructor's guides" for early childhood education out of the library
at any given time. Not because I buy into their absurd "lesson plans",
but because sometimes my son will say something like, "Let's make
stuff!" and since I'm somewhat craft-impaired, I like to have something
to flip through so I can say, "Would you like to make something with
homemade clay or paint with a string?" Or if there are a lot of
pictures, he can browse it and let me know what projects look fun. If
we were relying on my lack of craft imagination, it would be crayons and
white paper every time.

But if I were to sit down with one of the books and take their
suggestions seriously, that wouldn't be unschooling. I mean, one of the
books I have out of the library has an "integrated thematic unit" on
apples, complete with objectives, vocabulary words, and assessment
criteria. It's ridiculous. But it does have a recipe I might try
sometime. I like the fact that through the library I can keep changing
the books, because honestly these types of books have about 10 or 15
good ideas per 500 pages.

It's sometimes hard to see the difference between unschooling and other
forms of homeschooling. I mean, one parent might use an early childhood
curriculum book to actually sit down for two hours each morning and do a
"lesson" on each "unit". That's not unschooling by any definition. It
could be the very same book I have on my shelf to pull out when my son
wants to do something and I'm fresh out of ideas.

Sorcha


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Roberts

If she didn't want to listen to or learn from what
we're using I wouldn't use it...for example we've been
using Saxon math. She is not wild about it and prefers
to do her computer games. Again I'm not yet in a place
to totally do like we would prefer so I can't not have
her working on math skills, but I can at least help
her find other ways to learn it than from this
curriculum. If she didn't want to read a book right
now, or at all, I won't make her read it or listen to
it, but I'd look for something else she'd like or read
her something she has chosen from the library.

"Reading ahead and not going in order, but still
"having" to use them in some way, is not even close
to unschooling."

"I haven't claimed to be unschooling at this time.
If you intend to unschool sometime when you "can"
> then putting away the school stuff is the easiest
> way to "ease" into it. It's certainly the first
> place to start."

I think we're looking at and seeing "school stuff" as
being two different things. Throwing out the
instructor's guide completely? there are many useful
points to them so I won't discount them just becuase
they are "school stuff" rely on them primarily? that's
what I'm wanting to get away from when we can.

E

--- Mary <mummy124@...> wrote:
> From: Elizabeth Roberts
> <<and just because they are linked to an
> instructor's
> guide makes them worthless? I think not. I'm not
> at
> all bound by their suggestions or timeline or
> anything
> like it is. We've already rearranged and "read
> ahead"
> and such.
>
> I am also in a state (and a personal situation)
> that
> would make it difficult at this time to "chuck it
> all
> out the window" and go completely into
> unschooling.
> Later on, when we are completely free and clear
> and
> able to, we intend to.>>
>
>
> If your child can willingly tell you she doesn't
> want to do them anymore, every day of the week, and
> you listen, then no they aren't worthless. Reading
> ahead and not going in order, but still "having" to
> use them in some way, is not even close to
> unschooling.
>
> If you intend to unschool sometime when you "can"
> then putting away the school stuff is the easiest
> way to "ease" into it. It's certainly the first
> place to start.
>
> Mary B
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Sorcha

>>>Throwing out the
instructor's guide completely? there are many useful
points to them so I won't discount them just becuase
they are "school stuff" <<<

You can hide it way in the very, very back of the closet and later,
after you "get" unschooling, pull it out, and if you still find it
useful, put it on the shelf next to the dictionary as just another
resource.

Sorcha


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Roberts

Yes I did leave that part out intentionally. However,
it is not my nature to sit quietly and hope my
questions will be answered. They won't be answered if
I don't ask them. So I'm asking. I have been through
the unschooling.com website and whatnot, but prefer
the interaction given through discussion as that is
what this is for, isn't it?

E

--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/22/03 8:58:09 PM,
> ladyeliza_r@... writes:
>
> << Does it mean that if I
> don't rush into this without a full understanding
> and
> consideration that I'm bound to ruin my children's
> lives? >>
>
> Not "bound to" but you do run more risk of wasting
> time than if you read and
> honestly consider the ideas people are sharing with
> you.
>
> With the ellipesis, did you leave out the part about
> reading a while before
> posting?
>
> [ "(If) you'd like
> to find out more about how video games and life in
> general are filled with learning, come join
> us!...Everyone with an interest in unschooling is
> welcome to join this discussion, but we ask that you
> keep in mind the purpose of this list, which is to
> discuss unschooling in ways designed to help each
> other become unschoolers or become better at
> unschooling."]
>
> Sandra
>


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Elizabeth Roberts

Sorcha,

That's about the closest that has come to how I'm
using Sonlight, not in it's entirety and strictly
according to their schedule but as a guide and a
stepping-stone to more. Maybe I haven't been very
clear on that, and for that I'll apologize. There is
much with the curriculum that we aren't using, having
tried and decided it wasn't working, or didn't even
try because we knew it wouldn't work just from looking
at it. But there are things that I DO have to teach,
in some form. Like I've said I'd like to get further
away from Sonlight than we are at this point, but
there are many good things to be found within so I
don't want to totally throw it out simply because it's
a prepared curriculum. My problem has been the
suggestion that the only way to get away from it is to
totally ignore it, but is that really necessary if it
is a good resource for us?

E

--- Sorcha <sorcha-aisling@...> wrote:
> >>>and just because they are linked to an
> instructor's
> guide makes them worthless? I think not. I'm not at
> all bound by their suggestions or timeline or
> anything
> like it is.<<<
>
> I don't think anyone was saying that. I personally
> like to have a few
> "instructor's guides" for early childhood education
> out of the library
> at any given time. Not because I buy into their
> absurd "lesson plans",
> but because sometimes my son will say something
> like, "Let's make
> stuff!" and since I'm somewhat craft-impaired, I
> like to have something
> to flip through so I can say, "Would you like to
> make something with
> homemade clay or paint with a string?" Or if there
> are a lot of
> pictures, he can browse it and let me know what
> projects look fun. If
> we were relying on my lack of craft imagination, it
> would be crayons and
> white paper every time.
>
> But if I were to sit down with one of the books and
> take their
> suggestions seriously, that wouldn't be unschooling.
> I mean, one of the
> books I have out of the library has an "integrated
> thematic unit" on
> apples, complete with objectives, vocabulary words,
> and assessment
> criteria. It's ridiculous. But it does have a
> recipe I might try
> sometime. I like the fact that through the library
> I can keep changing
> the books, because honestly these types of books
> have about 10 or 15
> good ideas per 500 pages.
>
> It's sometimes hard to see the difference between
> unschooling and other
> forms of homeschooling. I mean, one parent might
> use an early childhood
> curriculum book to actually sit down for two hours
> each morning and do a
> "lesson" on each "unit". That's not unschooling by
> any definition. It
> could be the very same book I have on my shelf to
> pull out when my son
> wants to do something and I'm fresh out of ideas.
>
> Sorcha
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Wife2Vegman

Elizabeth Roberts <ladyeliza_r@...> wrote:
Yes I did leave that part out intentionally. However,
it is not my nature to sit quietly and hope my
questions will be answered. They won't be answered if
I don't ask them. So I'm asking. I have been through
the unschooling.com website and whatnot, but prefer
the interaction given through discussion as that is
what this is for, isn't it?

E





Elizabeth,



I haven't posted on this board in over a year, and there is a reason. When I first joined, I came in here with "both guns blazing", sure I knew what unschooling was and is, and sure I was doing it, and immediately jumped into a confrontation with Sandra over something or other, and left in a huff. (psst...Sandra was right, too, about that other thing, and I was wrong)



I slunk in again about 4 or 5 months ago, and was determined to just lurk forever and glean what I could use and toss what didn't suit me. That didn't work. Instead, I found myself questioning the way I did things that didn't fit the unschooling lifestyle. And those things that didn't "suit" have become a nice fit.



I strongly urge you to just lurk and read for a couple weeks to a month or even longer, like I did. Read the archives, which alone will take you a couple months if you spend hours each day. Read the new posts every day, too.



When you get the urge to post, hold off a while until you hear how others respond. Several times I have wanted to throw my hat into the ring, but waited and within 24 hours someone had either answered my question or had posted exactly the response I was going to give or had posted a response that was the opposite of my initial reaction since I am still learning how to unschool myself.



In the Corner of Lurkdom, I have seen that many times new posters say things like "My 3 year old won't learn the alphabet and how to read unless I teach him" instead of saying, "How will my 3yo learn the alphabet if I don't teach him? How did your children learn?" I have observed that the first type of post brings a totally different type of response than the second one.



Your questions will be answered, even if you don't ask them. In fact, your questions have already been asked, many times, by other newbies, and then answered, many times, by Sandra and others, and it is in the archives.



I'm going back into Lurkdom now, since my true unschooling journey is only 6 months old, even though I've been homeschooling for 9 years, and all nine have been stepping stones to where I am now...I still have much to learn from this list before I will feel comfortable commenting or offering my thoughts here.



Peace,

Susan M. in VA

unschooling 3 great people who are 13, 11, and almost-5





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorcha

Elizabeth,

I hope you haven't left the list. I like to see people stick around
until the paradigm shift occurs and they "get" what's being said. You
still weren't getting what I was saying. You said:

>>>That's about the closest that has come to how I'm
using Sonlight, not in it's entirety and strictly
according to their schedule but as a guide and a
stepping-stone to more.<<<

Then a few short paragraphs later, you said:

>>>But there are things that I DO have to teach,
in some form.<<<

See, what we're doing is coming from a completely different motivation.
One of the books I currently have out of the library is called "Story
Stretchers". I would never say, "I'm homeschooling using Story
Stretchers." It's just a book that happens to one my shelf this month
and next month I'll probably have a different book on my shelf about a
similar topic.

But the key is that it's *not* there because I think there are things I
have to teach. I don't think that at all. My son learns amazing things
each day that I've never taught him. Last night he wanted me to get off
the computer so he could practice spelling words in Microsoft Word.
He's not quite 5, and I've never asked him to do any spelling. He
wanted to learn to spell words, but doesn't want to use pencil and paper
because he doesn't quite have the fine motor skills to write letters
he's happy with. He'll learn to spell, and type, and someday even write
with pencil, and I won't have to teach him any of it.

The reason I have Story Stretchers on my book shelf is because my son
has lots more energy than I do, and frequently his desire to do things
is far ahead of my creativity. I used the example of painting with
string as something I've gotten out of an education manual. There's no
reason on earth I feel children need to be taught to paint with string.
But he's always asking to "make stuff" and I can only pass him the white
paper and crayons so many times before I realize I'm holding him back by
my lack of creativity. If he never wants to do another craft project
again, that would be fine with me (I'd probably be relieved. Crafts are
not my forte).

I hope I've made things more clear, but I've probably managed to muddy
them up further.

Sorcha


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/22/03 9:49:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ladyeliza_r@... writes:

> and just because they are linked to an instructor's
> guide makes them worthless? I think not. I'm not at
> all bound by their suggestions or timeline or anything
> like it is. We've already rearranged and "read ahead"
> and such.
>
> I am also in a state (and a personal situation) that
> would make it difficult at this time to "chuck it all
> out the window" and go completely into unschooling.
> Later on, when we are completely free and clear and
> able to, we intend to.
>
>

It isn't the instructor's guide or the paper that makes them worthless, it is
that the child didn't have the choice. If she said I don't want to do that
would you say OK and chuck it. Did you ask her? Unschooling is about trust
and choice.

What state are you in. In NC here it is easy, I know that... but I believe
that someone here might be able to help you with understanding the state
requirements if you mentioned the state. Unschooling can be done in any
state, I believe.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]