the_clevengers

My son (6.5) is able to read and sound out many words, and really,
really wants to read more. He's having a tough time though
keeping "b" and "d" and "p" separated in his mind. Anything that
involves left-right is very frustrating for him. I don't know if this
is dyslexia, or just normal for this age, and I'm not interested in
the whole dyslexia label aspect of it. But I'd like to know if anyone
on this list experienced this as a child or grownup and what sort of
tricks did you learn to help you figure this out, or is it still a
constant problem? When he asked for help, I tried telling him that
the "d" points to his left hand, and the "b" points to his right
hand, but as he still gets his hands mixed up, I'm afraid that wasn't
terribly useful. His sister, who is 3 years younger, has a solid
feeling for left and right, and he's always struggled with this so I
think it goes farther than just reading in his brain.

So, any thoughts on how to help a kid who is struggling with left-
right in reading and wants to get past it?

Blue Skies,
-Robin-

Heidi and Brent Ricks

I have no idea whether you've already tried this or whether it will work but here is a left/right trick that someone taught my kids that worked really well. If you hold up your hands in front of you
and stick out your thumb and index fingers, the left hand fingers will make the shape of an "L". This may not be helpful if his brain is not ready to wrap around which way an "L" faces.

My daughter, who is 10 and still not really reading, has always mixed up the b and the d. My son who is 7 and is reading does it too though. I think it's pretty common. My daughter also mirror wrote
for a long time. I never corrected it and she eventually straightened it out. I think it's just how the brain is wired and that it will move on to the standard way when it is good and ready. Your son
may see lots of things from a different angle than most of us. Who knows, this might be a real gift that he will be able to use later if people don't mess it up by trying to make him see things the way
they do. He may be using connections that the rest of us have lost or never had!

Heidi R.

the_clevengers wrote:

> My son (6.5) is able to read and sound out many words, and really,
> really wants to read more. He's having a tough time though
> keeping "b" and "d" and "p" separated in his mind. Anything that
> involves left-right is very frustrating for him. I don't know if this
> is dyslexia, or just normal for this age, and I'm not interested in
> the whole dyslexia label aspect of it. But I'd like to know if anyone
> on this list experienced this as a child or grownup and what sort of
> tricks did you learn to help you figure this out, or is it still a
> constant problem? When he asked for help, I tried telling him that
> the "d" points to his left hand, and the "b" points to his right
> hand, but as he still gets his hands mixed up, I'm afraid that wasn't
> terribly useful. His sister, who is 3 years younger, has a solid
> feeling for left and right, and he's always struggled with this so I
> think it goes farther than just reading in his brain.
>
> So, any thoughts on how to help a kid who is struggling with left-
> right in reading and wants to get past it?
>
> Blue Skies,
> -Robin-
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Deborah Lewis

Throw away that word.

My son reads and still mixes up b and d sometimes when he's reading out
loud and when he's tired. He doesn't mix it up when he's reading
silently.

Dylan used that trick where you make two fists and press your knuckles
together and hold up you thumbs.
Your fists become b and d -bd- and it looks like a "bed". (the shape,
easy to remember) You can turn it upside down and make pq.

Your son is really, really young and he might not read well for five more
years. He'll get it.
It's normal.

Deb L

the_clevengers

--- In [email protected], Deborah Lewis
<ddzimlew@j...> wrote:
>
> Throw away that word.

:-) Like I said, I could care less for the label.


> Dylan used that trick where you make two fists and press your
knuckles
> together and hold up you thumbs.
> Your fists become b and d -bd- and it looks like a "bed". (the
shape,
> easy to remember) You can turn it upside down and make pq.

Thanks, that's really helpful!


> Your son is really, really young and he might not read well for
five more
> years. He'll get it.
> It's normal.

I know, and it doesn't bug me at all. I know he'll read when he's
ready to. It's just hard because it frustrates *him* so much. He
writes all the time, with great invented spelling and letters
pointing every which way, sometimes completely mirror writing. He
loves to write and really wants to be able to read what others have
written. I'll see him pick up a book and read for a little ways and
then he'll give up when he gets to a point he can't figure out a
word, and it's always a "b" or "d" word and I can see how frustrated
he is about it. I just wanted to be able to help him out. Thanks for
the tip!

Blue Skies,

-Robin-

the_clevengers

--- In [email protected], Heidi and Brent Ricks
<rickshei@c...> wrote:
> I have no idea whether you've already tried this or whether it will
work but here is a left/right trick that someone taught my kids that
worked really well. If you hold up your hands in front of you
> and stick out your thumb and index fingers, the left hand fingers
will make the shape of an "L". This may not be helpful if his brain
is not ready to wrap around which way an "L" faces.>>

That's a good one, thanks. I'm not sure if it will help him as he
often writes letters (including L) facing the opposite direction, but
maybe eventually...


> My daughter, who is 10 and still not really reading, has always
mixed up the b and the d. My son who is 7 and is reading does it too
though. I think it's pretty common. My daughter also mirror wrote
> for a long time. I never corrected it and she eventually
straightened it out. I think it's just how the brain is wired and
that it will move on to the standard way when it is good and ready.>>

I'm really hoping that will happen with him in time, though I do know
adults who say they still get left/right and letters confused. Were
your kids frustrated with this while it was going on? That's the
hardest thing for me is that he wants to do it more than he is able
to, KWIM? But his basic personality is very driven to do things, and
when he wants to be able to do something, he wants to do it now. I
have told him that this will most likely get easier for him over
time, but that's no consolation.


> Your son
> may see lots of things from a different angle than most of us.

That is definitely really true for him.

> Who knows, this might be a real gift that he will be able to use
later if people don't mess it up by trying to make him see things the
way
> they do. He may be using connections that the rest of us have lost
or never had!


I think that's really true. He's very ambidextrous as well (as is his
father), but writes left-handed. For a long time, he wrote or drew
left-handed on the left half of the paper and then switched to his
right hand for the right half of the paper. Somehow his hand couldn't
cross the midline of his body.

His dad was forced in school to try to write right-handed (as a
result, he can't really write legibly with either hand, thank god for
computer keyboards!). I'm just glad he (our son) can learn in his own
way and his own time, but trying to find ways to help him when he is
asking for help on this particular thing.

Thanks!

Blue Skies,

-Robin-

Shyrley

Heidi and Brent Ricks wrote:

> I have no idea whether you've already tried this or whether it will work but here is a left/right trick that someone taught my kids that worked really well. If you hold up your hands in front of you
> and stick out your thumb and index fingers, the left hand fingers will make the shape of an "L". This may not be helpful if his brain is not ready to wrap around which way an "L" faces.
>
> My daughter, who is 10 and still not really reading, has always mixed up the b and the d. My son who is 7 and is reading does it too though. I think it's pretty common.

Yup. I remember sitting in school when I was 7 or so looking at 'b' 'd' 'p' and 'q' and weeping over how poeple figured out which way they faced and which way the tail went. It wasn't till I was about 12
that I really got the hang of it. It didn't howver, affect my reading cos the word context gave me a clue. It was only in writing. The teacher told me I was backwards and stupid. Maybe now they would say it
was dyslexia but I don't think that is true eitehr. I'm still a bd speller though :-)

Shyrley

Deborah Lewis

***I just wanted to be able to help him out.***

With Dylan it was the stories.
We always read great stories to him, The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, and
when he wanted to read on his own he just wanted to read something good.
All the early reader books were so lame, he couldn't believe it. My
mom gave him Bob books, which I thought were so cute, and he slammed the
first one down and said "Nobody talks like this!"

He was ruined by all that great literature!<g>

He liked scary stories though and discovered Goosebumps were pretty easy
to read. He got tired of those, too, (they're not written well) and
moved on to Stephen King. Stephen King books turned out to be his
favorite early readers. <g> Interesting characters, scary plots, easy
words.

Anyway, just read to him a lot. Remind him you'll read anything he
starts and can't finish.
Dylan always wanted to read something that was way beyond his ability to
figure out the words. It's just because they appreciate a good story so
much.

Deb L

Tia Leschke

>
> So, any thoughts on how to help a kid who is struggling with left-
> right in reading and wants to get past it?
>
Ditto the things other people told you about not worrying. But if he is
clear on which direction print goes on a page, you can tell him that the b
goes forward and the d goes backward. The p points forward and the q points
backward.
Tia

Tia Leschke

>
> With Dylan it was the stories.
> We always read great stories to him, The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, and
> when he wanted to read on his own he just wanted to read something good.
> All the early reader books were so lame, he couldn't believe it. My
> mom gave him Bob books, which I thought were so cute, and he slammed the
> first one down and said "Nobody talks like this!"
>
> He was ruined by all that great literature!<g>

I think this must happen with a lot of kids who read later. Their reading
ability has to be a lot better for them to read the books that interest them
than it needs to be for younger kids. It's got to be a bit frustrating for
them.
Tia

Dawn Ackroyd

One of the tricks one of my student's used to use is he would hold up
his hands and make a circle of his index finger and his thumb, and say
BED. The left hand makes the B and the right hand makes the D. Don't
know a trick for P though!

-----Original Message-----
From: the_clevengers [mailto:diamondair@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 7:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Reading and dyslexia


My son (6.5) is able to read and sound out many words, and really,
really wants to read more. He's having a tough time though
keeping "b" and "d" and "p" separated in his mind. Anything that
involves left-right is very frustrating for him. I don't know if this
is dyslexia, or just normal for this age, and I'm not interested in
the whole dyslexia label aspect of it. But I'd like to know if anyone
on this list experienced this as a child or grownup and what sort of
tricks did you learn to help you figure this out, or is it still a
constant problem? When he asked for help, I tried telling him that
the "d" points to his left hand, and the "b" points to his right
hand, but as he still gets his hands mixed up, I'm afraid that wasn't
terribly useful. His sister, who is 3 years younger, has a solid
feeling for left and right, and he's always struggled with this so I
think it goes farther than just reading in his brain.

So, any thoughts on how to help a kid who is struggling with left-
right in reading and wants to get past it?

Blue Skies,
-Robin-





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705
081972:HM/A=1481646/R=0/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_fla
ke/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl>

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egrou
pmail/S=:HM/A=1481646/rand=787047016>

~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list
owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Connie Stillwell

So, any thoughts on how to help a kid who is struggling with left-
right in reading and wants to get past it?


The Jump Start computer game helped my children with this. It was the K one. : )

Connie


"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle &Trevor Payne

My son also went through that. He's almost 9 and I think that he is finally
through with the confusion. I think that it's fairly normal and that it
doesn't mean he's dyslexic.

Michelle
----- Original Message -----
From: "the_clevengers" <diamondair@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 7:44 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Reading and dyslexia


> My son (6.5) is able to read and sound out many words, and really,
> really wants to read more. He's having a tough time though
> keeping "b" and "d" and "p" separated in his mind. Anything that
> involves left-right is very frustrating for him. I don't know if this
> is dyslexia, or just normal for this age, and I'm not interested in
> the whole dyslexia label aspect of it. But I'd like to know if anyone
> on this list experienced this as a child or grownup and what sort of
> tricks did you learn to help you figure this out, or is it still a
> constant problem? When he asked for help, I tried telling him that
> the "d" points to his left hand, and the "b" points to his right
> hand, but as he still gets his hands mixed up, I'm afraid that wasn't
> terribly useful. His sister, who is 3 years younger, has a solid
> feeling for left and right, and he's always struggled with this so I
> think it goes farther than just reading in his brain.
>
> So, any thoughts on how to help a kid who is struggling with left-
> right in reading and wants to get past it?
>
> Blue Skies,
> -Robin-
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/16/03 7:45:09 AM, diamondair@... writes:

<< So, any thoughts on how to help a kid who is struggling with left-
right in reading and wants to get past it? >>

Maybe remind him to look at a word he DOES recognize and use that as a
reference point?
An alphabet strip as a bookmark (and a left to right guide?), or a ruler
(numbers left to right)?

Time and experience are my best recommendations. If he's in a hurry, draw
some pictures of beds (let him decorate them maybe?) with bed (bigger,
fancier, but looking like beds).

Problem with "bed" is you can get the difference between b and d, but it
doesn't help a bit with left to right.

Some things just can't be rushed, though, and he will eventually get it.

Sandra

the_clevengers

--- In [email protected], Deborah Lewis
<ddzimlew@j...> wrote:
> ***I just wanted to be able to help him out.***
>
> With Dylan it was the stories.
> We always read great stories to him, The Hobbit, Lord of the
Rings, and
> when he wanted to read on his own he just wanted to read something
good.
> All the early reader books were so lame, he couldn't believe
it. My
> mom gave him Bob books, which I thought were so cute, and he
slammed the
> first one down and said "Nobody talks like this!"
>
> He was ruined by all that great literature!<g>


I think that's a large part of it here as well. We're in the middle
of Lord of the Rings right now, and we always read adult non-fiction
books and have a chapter book we're in the middle of. It *is* hard to
go from there to something like the Bob books. I did buy Mackenzie
some Dorling Kindersly early readers themed on Lego characters, and
he *loves* those, but he's still not quite to the point of being able
to read them himself and that's one of the things he's frustrated
about. I have to say that I don't think they're all that "easy", even
the "Level 1" book has some three-syllable words. It's not on the
same level as, say "Hop On Pop", but of course he doesn't want to
read "Hop on Pop" anymore!

Thanks to everyone for the ideas. I explained the "bed" one to him
today and he really liked that. I think it's the visual that will
help him, something he can hold in front of him. I thought maybe I'd
also write out a card he can keep that has "B = b" and "D = d" on it,
because the capitals are easier to distinguish than the lower case.

Blue Skies,

-Robin-

rayman78708

True dyslexia is a reading disorder, not a matter of confusing 2 or 3
letters. All kids get confused and the length of time they stay
confused varies, too.

One trick dyslexia specialists use is cursive writing. Have the child
learn what the letter looks like written in cursive, show them
trouble words written in cursive. If it's a simple matter of
memorizing, they will memorize how it is spelled and be able to "see"
it when it is printed. This may be more helpful to an older reader.

Confusing 'p' and 'q'...there are few words that a child will see in
books at age 6 that start with 'pu' so teach him that 'q' is always
followed by 'u'. When he's older, when he begins to notice more 'pu'
words ("hey I thought it was puppy, not quppy!") you will know that
he has made the distiction. (Those of you with 6 yr olds reading long
chapter books -- keep it to yourself).

The 'd' and 'b' is more problematic. Writing the word 'double' in
lower case letters on a card helped. If my son could refer to the
card when ever the need arose, he could see the difference. While he
did confuse the letters for awhile, dyslexia showed up in a different
way.

HTH,
Lauri Polunsky

nellebelle

John Holt compared b,d,p,q, to the way a child looks at a picture. The
child knows a picture of a dog is a dog, whether its tail is going forward,
back, up or down. It is normal for think to think this of those letters as
well.

Mary Ellen