[email protected]

Well, today was the day.
I didn't think it would happen to me, but social services came a knockin'.
Fortunately, we were busy visiting some unschoolers that are moving to Turkey
and he simply left his card. So I have time to calmly prepare myself.
He represents the school board, not the branch of social services that deals
with neglect/abuse. He wrote "I need to talk to you about Trevor and Jareds
school attendance"
So obviously a nosy neighbor turned us in or something.
I am not registered. Have not been for over two years. BUT, I took Sandra's
advice and got all my paperwork in order back in November, so I will simply
overnight the forms to the umbrella school I chose. The notarized date will
reflect November, so I don't think anything will come of it.
IF they even need proof. He may not ask...who knows.
UGH.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

marji

Ugh, Ren!! I'll bet seeing *that* card on your door quickened your heart
rate like the most intense workout! I'm glad you guys weren't home. I'm
glad you guys have your ducks in a row, too.

I know all will turn out just fine, but I'm thinking of you and sending you
lots of good thoughts!

Your friend,

Marji

At 23:18 3/13/03 -0500, Ren wrote:
>Well, today was the day.
>I didn't think it would happen to me, but social services came a knockin'...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/03 12:16:50 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< I know all will turn out just fine, but I'm thinking of you and sending
you
lots of good thoughts! >>

Thanks Marji...you don't know how much I just need to know my unschooling
friends are out there.
I feel so strange about this. I'm not really scared or anything, I know it
will blow over. But I feel betrayed. Like someone we knew had it in for us.
It's not going to change the way I live, but I will wonder just who to trust!!
He knew the boys names. That unnerved me a bit. Also proved it wasn't a
casual drive by observer...had to be someone that knows us.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/13/03 9:19:59 PM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< BUT, I took Sandra's
advice and got all my paperwork in order back in November, so I will simply
overnight the forms to the umbrella school I chose. The notarized date will
reflect November, so I don't think anything will come of it.
IF they even need proof. He may not ask...who knows. >>

Make him his own fine photocopies, though, definitely, whether you send them
to an umbrella school or not! Wrap them up in a ribbon. <g>

Sounds like a routine deal, but I wonder why he didn't call? Maybe he just
had the address but no phone number?

Sandra

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/2003 1:51:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> Sounds like a routine deal, but I wonder why he didn't call? Maybe he just
> had the address but no phone number?

Element of surprise---wanting to catch them "in the act". They never call
first.

Melinda's giving a talk this year at the conference on dealing with DSS/CPS
as she just went through this a while back. Family member turned her in. Ren,
do you want her address?

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

OH, Ren.



I don't know how I would react, glad you were gone!



I'm sure you'll be fine, sounds like you have it all together.



Thinking of you,



Kelli







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Patrick

I'm sorry that happened, Ren. I'm glad that you were with us and
especially that the boys weren't home by themselves or something. It
kind of makes my stomach hurt just thinking about it.

You're in my thoughts too, and I'm sure all will work out. Just be
yourself - you know, forceful and certain that you are right! :)


-Christy


--- In [email protected], Kelli Traaseth
<kellitraas@y...> wrote:
>
> OH, Ren.
>
>
>
> I don't know how I would react, glad you were gone!
>
>
>
> I'm sure you'll be fine, sounds like you have it all together.
>
>
>
> Thinking of you,
>
>
>
> Kelli
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line!
~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@e...), or the list
owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@h...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/13/03 11:19:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:

> I am not registered

Why not?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/03 9:33:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, unolist@...
writes:

> Why not?
>
>
>

That was from me. I forgot to sign the email. Pardon my questioning things,
like homeopathy and not registering, but if I sat back and never questioned
anything, I probably would still be a slave to compulsory schooling. So I am
asking why not? Why not comply with the system, why not play it safe and
avoid such a conflict? Why take a risk of putting your family through an
ordeal by the very people I would rather keep out of my life involving my
children's whereabouts during the day? I am not questioning you to put you on
the defensive, I am sure this is not a good situation and you need to focus
your energies on it, and I am sympathetic. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

But again, I need to question why you questioned just doing what you were
supposed to do. Maybe everyone else already knows, but I am interested in
your motive.

Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/hometour3.html">Ang's Virtual Home Tour Part 3</A> (the homeschooling room)
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/03 8:20:57 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Sounds like a routine deal, but I wonder why he didn't call? Maybe he
just
had the address but no phone number? >>

I was assuming that.
Which makes the neighbors that moved in next door suspect. I didn't think
they knew the kids names though.
The other neighbors I was suspicious of (their kids like being down here
entirely too much and I think it pisses the Mom off) know our phone number.
But maybe it's routine to just show up at the door when they get a phone call.
A lady at work that I'm good friends with used to work in the same office
that the guy is from. She said it's very routine and probably no big deal at
all.
I'm still just pissed that someone wanted to "tattle"....argh.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/03 8:20:57 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Element of surprise---wanting to catch them "in the act". They never call
first.

Melinda's giving a talk this year at the conference on dealing with DSS/CPS
as she just went through this a while back. Family member turned her in.
Ren,
do you want her address? >>

Yes. I would like to have as many resources as possible just in case!
I kinda wondered about the catching people "in the act" thing....that was my
hunch. But how hard is it to call and ASK?
Sure would save a lot of money and hassle I'd think.
Oh well. I am going to have some documents all ready in case he shows up
again.


Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

Deborah Lewis

Ren,

Were you ever registered in that county before? I think it's harder to
go underground if you've once been registered in the same county.

A woman here had that happen to her. The county superintendent was
looking for her name to give to another mom who was homeschooling and
noticed she wasn't currently registered. I guess it's not the custom
to just send a letter asking for particulars.

However it happened, I'm sorry. It sounds more than a little sickening.


You'll be fine. You could always read this great article about fear in
HEM's latest issue called "Unschooling and the Art of Running." <G>
Some kind of cosmic swirly thing going on.

Hang in there.

Deb L

nellebelle

I wish I had the nerve to not comply with the law.

Mary Ellen

zenmomma *

I'll be thinking about you today, Ren, send lots of positive energy your
way. Hang tough.

Life is good.
~Mary

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."

~ Thich Nhat Hanh






_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

[email protected]

<< << Element of surprise---wanting to catch them "in the act". They never
call
first. >>

They do here.
When Dave M. who posts at unschooling.com was turned in by his ex wife, they
called, wouldn't tell him who had reported him (he knew), and when they did
show up one day earlier than scheduled, they called his current wife by the
name of his ex-wife. Bingo.

But they also said "totally baseless report" and went back where they came
from.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/03 8:16:29 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< I'm still just pissed that someone wanted to "tattle"....argh. >>

I think taxpayers (meaning in this instance people who have no kid yet pay
property taxes that support schools) want their money's worth, and for
childless people especially, they don't give a rat's ass about the future
earning power of an eight year old, they want their six hours of child-free
life in the middle of each day (as they think "each day" but it's only 180
days at best).

If they see kids during school hours, if they hear them, then what use wa
their paying all that tax money?

But I hope none of your relatives would have turned you in. Or relatives of
relatives.

If it's parents of other kids, it might be because they're just sick of their
kids saying "Can't we stay home? Ren's kids do." And so they want to smite
you or at least sting you as retribution.

Sandra

Have a Nice Day!

Ren,

Don't forget, you do not have to let them in the house, even if they insist.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: starsuncloud@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 10:11 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] It finally happened


In a message dated 3/14/03 8:20:57 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<<
You're in my thoughts too, and I'm sure all will work out. Just be
yourself - you know, forceful and certain that you are right! :) >>

Thanks Christy!
What a shocker after spending a lovely day with you guys....ugh.
Is it that obvious that I'm forceful? Hehe


Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
> I think taxpayers (meaning in this instance people who have no kid yet pay
> property taxes that support schools) want their money's worth, and for
> childless people especially, they don't give a rat's ass about the future
> earning power of an eight year old, they want their six hours of
child-free
> life in the middle of each day (as they think "each day" but it's only 180
> days at best).
>
> If they see kids during school hours, if they hear them, then what use wa
> their paying all that tax money?

In cases like that, you point out that homeschooling is *saving* tax money.
If all the homeschooled kids in their state or province went back to school,
the extra cost would be enormous. I've never been able to understand that
argument about homeschoolers costing districts money. If the amount of
money the district spends per child is what it actually costs to "educate"
that child, then they should come out even.
Tia

Michele Reynolds

Hi Everyone,
I'm new to this group, and I just need to jump in here and put my 2 cents in on this issue. :~)
First of all we still pay taxes even if we have children or not, and we also still pay land taxes even if our children are homeschooled/unschooled.
Secondly--- we as homeschooled/unschoolers are costing the schools money.The BOE recieves funds from many sources,besides our tax money. They get kickbacks from pharmacutical companies. i.e., for every child on ritalin or such, and for everychild in special education classes. The schools recieve grants for special education, hence the so called need for special education and ritalin,or other such drugs.
You can research this info in your local library. I found all my info in the homeschool section of the library.
You will be amazed at the kick backs they recieve and discover that public/private schools are simply a money making machine, all at the cost of our children.
Michele
Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:>
> I think taxpayers (meaning in this instance people who have no kid yet pay
> property taxes that support schools) want their money's worth, and for
> childless people especially, they don't give a rat's ass about the future
> earning power of an eight year old, they want their six hours of
child-free
> life in the middle of each day (as they think "each day" but it's only 180
> days at best).
>
> If they see kids during school hours, if they hear them, then what use wa
> their paying all that tax money?

In cases like that, you point out that homeschooling is *saving* tax money.
If all the homeschooled kids in their state or province went back to school,
the extra cost would be enormous. I've never been able to understand that
argument about homeschoolers costing districts money. If the amount of
money the district spends per child is what it actually costs to "educate"
that child, then they should come out even.
Tia


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/03 11:08:17 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Were you ever registered in that county before? I think it's harder to
go underground if you've once been registered in the same county. >>

Nope. Never registered here ever.
I think I know who called us in. Had some clues today.
SO anyway....everything turned out FINE.
The guy was actually a little bit irritated that someone had called in after
I explained everything. So as far as I know, it's over.
Except I'm going to bake a loaf of bread (Kelly's suggestion) and write a
nice letter and ask if I did anything to offend these neighbors. They seem to
take offense at everything we do..sigh.
This is the second time they've called authorities on us, once for our yard
debris being up on the street for pick up and now for homeschooling. I'm
assuming, but the clues are pretty good.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

Tia Leschke

> I'm new to this group, and I just need to jump in here and put my 2 cents
in on this issue. :~)
> First of all we still pay taxes even if we have children or not, and we
also still pay land taxes even if our children are homeschooled/unschooled.
> Secondly--- we as homeschooled/unschoolers are costing the schools
money.The BOE recieves funds from many sources,besides our tax money. They
get kickbacks from pharmacutical companies. i.e., for every child on ritalin
or such, and for everychild in special education classes. The schools
recieve grants for special education, hence the so called need for special
education and ritalin,or other such drugs.
> You can research this info in your local library. I found all my info in
the homeschool section of the library.
> You will be amazed at the kick backs they recieve and discover that
public/private schools are simply a money making machine, all at the cost of
our children.

The question is though, what they receive is *supposed* to be what it costs
to "educate" the child. If they don't have to "educate" that child, what do
they need that money for?
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/2003 8:19:01 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:


> << BUT, I took Sandra's
> advice and got all my paperwork in order back in November, so I will simply
>
> overnight the forms to the umbrella school I chose. The notarized date will
>
> reflect November, so I don't think anything will come of it


So Sandra, what was your advice?

Pam T., feeling the cold wind all the way from Florida


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deborah Lewis

***Nope. Never registered here ever.
I think I know who called us in. Had some clues today.
SO anyway....everything turned out FINE.
The guy was actually a little bit irritated that someone had called in
after
I explained everything. So as far as I know, it's over.
Except I'm going to bake a loaf of bread (Kelly's suggestion) and write a

nice letter and ask if I did anything to offend these neighbors. They
seem to
take offense at everything we do..sigh.
This is the second time they've called authorities on us, once for our
yard
debris being up on the street for pick up and now for homeschooling. I'm
assuming, but the clues are pretty good.***

Wow. I'm sorry, Ren.
I'm glad everything went well, and I think the bread and letter are a
great idea. Let all your gestures to them be peaceful and there
nastiness will start to look uglier even to them.

Deb L

Sorcha

You all are such better people than me. Bread and a letter is beyond my
ability to be civil to people who are trying to mess up my life. I
admire your generosity, Ren. If someone did that to me, I don't know if
I could bake them bread. It seriously might not even rise. It would be
a doughy brick. And they wouldn't even want to know what I'd have to
say if I wrote a letter. But then, I have noticed how nice you are.
:-) I'm glad things worked out well for you. I got a stomachache when
I read your first post about it.

Sorcha




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<BUT, I took Sandra's advice and got all my paperwork in order back in
November, >>

<<So Sandra, what was your advice?>>

First, bot Ren and Dave & Nancy who are here had done the same thing so it's
kinda cool that it DID help.

Left over from some New Mexico policy that's no longer in effect, it was this:

Get the forms filled out, get them notarized so you have an official date on
them, make copies of the forms that you can give to relatives or neighbors or
anybody, and just don't send the original to the state (or district or
wherever your law says it goes, but here it was state). Just put the
original somewhere safe. County landfill, under the couch...

But IF someone wants proof of your registration, show them the copies with
the date. Say, "Look, I have copies. Do you want one?"

You can send a copy to the state later if they say "We don't have your
registration."
You say "Oh. Sorry. Here's a copy."

Since at their end they have some minimum wage file clerk in charge of
opening envelope and putting the papers in a filing cabinet, their failure to
produce a copy could easily mean mail problem, mis-file, loss under THEIR
couch or in the landfill, but if they have a copy to put in the file, then
they have their copy, legally dated before whatever deadline it was.

The reason people were doing that here was they could show that they had
written their intent to homeschool in time, but it didn't actually get their
kid's name on the to-be-tested list.

And it's something to distribute to suspicious relatives.

I always recommended not lying. Don't say "We sent it." Just say "I have a
copy, do you want one?" Because that's true.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/15/2003 9:23:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:


> You all are such better people than me. Bread and a letter is beyond my
> ability to be civil to people who are trying to mess up my life. I
> admire your generosity, Ren. If someone did that to me, I don't know if
> I could bake them bread. It seriously might not even rise. It would be
> a doughy brick. And they wouldn't even want to know what I'd have to
> say if I wrote a letter. But then, I have noticed how nice you are.
> :-) I'm glad things worked out well for you. I got a stomachache when
> I read your first post about it.
>

If it were a "drive-by" problem, I'd agree with you. But Ren lives next door
to them. I think she needs to "make them think" a bit---and have them see her
as a "nice guy" who's doing the best for her kids. This *could* hapen again,
but if the neighbors know how sweet she is (bread and a letter), maybe.....

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/03 9:44:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:

> SO anyway....everything turned out FINE.
> The guy was actually a little bit irritated that someone had called in
> after
> I explained everything. So as far as I know, it's over.
>

So glad everything turned out OK. It is good you had everything lined up
ahead of time, just in case, though. Good planning on your part. Must be a
relief.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/15/03 11:01:18 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Let all your gestures to them be peaceful and there
nastiness will start to look uglier even to them. >>

Yeah, that's what I figured. PLUS, I don't need bad neighbor relations...that
would be the pits. I think they're petty, but they really don't want big
problems. Hence the secrecy about turning me in. They want me in trouble, but
they don't want me mad at them.
Hypocrites.
Sigh.


Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/15/03 11:01:18 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< But then, I have noticed how nice you are.
:-) I'm glad things worked out well for you. I got a stomachache when
I read your first post about it. >>

I tend to let things go easier now than I used to...my temper has been a
struggle though, so it was nice to read your note!! Believe me, I had a tummy
ache for two days. I feel much better now.
AND, we got our rat babies last night.
My kids are having an absolute ball with their new friends. We have four
girls that are busy wrecking havoc on the house. :)
The people that delivered them were really interesting.
The guy had a bunch of interests similar to Trevor and they spent their time
talking, playing chess and looking at things online. I think he learned more
in one night than most kids do in several months!! It was a great experience.
And the kids are SO protective and sweet with their baby rats. This was a
good thing to do.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/15/03 9:27:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> The reason people were doing that here was they could show that they had
> written their intent to homeschool in time, but it didn't actually get
> their
> kid's name on the to-be-tested list.
>
>

Well thanks for giving me some reason why not to register, since no one else
will address my questions. Here in Ohio, they don't require testing, we just
have a portfolio review done by an unschooling friendly certified teacher.
When I notified, it was recommended to send it certified so they couldn't
claim they didn't get it and use it against me. Without further insight from
someone willing to explain it, I can't see trying to get away with something.
I have an open mind and it's a shame that someone can't broaden my horizons.
I mean, do I really have to get a driver's license? I have no doubt of my
abilities to drive, I didn't *need* driver's ed, so why should I have to
register my car and renew my tags every year? I am a responsible driver, why
should I have to get the county's permission? I'm not willing to suffer the
consequences of not doing what is required.

Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/hometour3.html">Ang's Virtual Home Tour Part 3</A> (the homeschooling room)
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]