Johnny can learn
[email protected]
I just saw an old neighbor lady whos child was the same age as mine.
They moved a few years back.
I remembered that she told me how her son Johnny learned the
alpahbet.
She tied him in a chair until he learned it.
She said there was no excuse a child couldn't learn.
A chilling memory to say the least.
Lynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
They moved a few years back.
I remembered that she told me how her son Johnny learned the
alpahbet.
She tied him in a chair until he learned it.
She said there was no excuse a child couldn't learn.
A chilling memory to say the least.
Lynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorcha
Someday Johnny will be 1. bigger than his mother, 2. stronger than his
mother, and 3. harboring tremendous anger and resentment toward her.
And then she'll have a serious problem on her hands.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mother, and 3. harboring tremendous anger and resentment toward her.
And then she'll have a serious problem on her hands.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn Ackroyd
Isn't that the true. We have some 'friends' (or perhaps I should say
acquaintances) who pride themselves on how strict they are as parents.
We know them through church and they really don't have any friends. It's
easy to see why because they're quite obnoxious. Somehow they've decided
we're their friends though. My husband is pretty tolerant and
non-judgmental towards people, and so I think that is one of the ways
they've wormed their way into our lives. We had them over for dinner
once and all the kids were eating at the kitchen table while the adults
took their plates and sat in the living room. The mother went back into
the kitchen after a while and bopped their kids on the head's for no
reason at all and then sat there and proceeded to give it to them until
they cleaned their plates totally. My daughter (who is almost 5) was
really shocked at how this woman was acting towards these children. She
has a real keen sense of fairness and of how people should be treated. I
could see her wheels just turning while this woman was basically on the
war path with their kids. The adults had dished up the kids food and my
daughter said, "In our house we don't have to eat it all if we're full."
The woman was quite taken back and basically told my daughter she ought
to use good manners. My daughter retorted, "If you're the one who gave
them too much food why should they have to eat more?"
I could hear this going on in the kitchen and purposely didn't go in.
When the woman came back into the living room she said to me, "Your
daughter took exception to me making my children eat all the food on
their plates." I just smiled and said, "She sure knows how to bring up a
good argument, doesn't she?"
That was about the end of the conversation...and the dinner was a rather
short one too (thank goodness). I was happy to see my daughter isn't
afraid to talk to someone like that about such ridiculous behavior. She
wasn't rude, but quite matter of fact in her observance that this woman
was being ridiculous. I loved it.
I watch those kids and feel really sad for them. They're not bad kids -
but they sure have a tight rein on them. One day though I know it will
backfire on those parents. You can't hold a child down so tight for so
long and treat them so disrespectfully without it coming back to bite
you.
Dawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Sorcha [mailto:sorcha-aisling@...]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Johnny can learn
Someday Johnny will be 1. bigger than his mother, 2. stronger than his
mother, and 3. harboring tremendous anger and resentment toward her.
And then she'll have a serious problem on her hands.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
acquaintances) who pride themselves on how strict they are as parents.
We know them through church and they really don't have any friends. It's
easy to see why because they're quite obnoxious. Somehow they've decided
we're their friends though. My husband is pretty tolerant and
non-judgmental towards people, and so I think that is one of the ways
they've wormed their way into our lives. We had them over for dinner
once and all the kids were eating at the kitchen table while the adults
took their plates and sat in the living room. The mother went back into
the kitchen after a while and bopped their kids on the head's for no
reason at all and then sat there and proceeded to give it to them until
they cleaned their plates totally. My daughter (who is almost 5) was
really shocked at how this woman was acting towards these children. She
has a real keen sense of fairness and of how people should be treated. I
could see her wheels just turning while this woman was basically on the
war path with their kids. The adults had dished up the kids food and my
daughter said, "In our house we don't have to eat it all if we're full."
The woman was quite taken back and basically told my daughter she ought
to use good manners. My daughter retorted, "If you're the one who gave
them too much food why should they have to eat more?"
I could hear this going on in the kitchen and purposely didn't go in.
When the woman came back into the living room she said to me, "Your
daughter took exception to me making my children eat all the food on
their plates." I just smiled and said, "She sure knows how to bring up a
good argument, doesn't she?"
That was about the end of the conversation...and the dinner was a rather
short one too (thank goodness). I was happy to see my daughter isn't
afraid to talk to someone like that about such ridiculous behavior. She
wasn't rude, but quite matter of fact in her observance that this woman
was being ridiculous. I loved it.
I watch those kids and feel really sad for them. They're not bad kids -
but they sure have a tight rein on them. One day though I know it will
backfire on those parents. You can't hold a child down so tight for so
long and treat them so disrespectfully without it coming back to bite
you.
Dawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Sorcha [mailto:sorcha-aisling@...]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Johnny can learn
Someday Johnny will be 1. bigger than his mother, 2. stronger than his
mother, and 3. harboring tremendous anger and resentment toward her.
And then she'll have a serious problem on her hands.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sablehs
--- Dawn Ackroyd <dackroyd@...> wrote:
{OT} I really hate the commercials {we have them here} Talking about
if you love your children invade their privicy and such. {drug
commercials I think} Wouldn't it make more sense to be your child's
friend. And I disagree very much with those who say you can't be a
parent and a friend. My husband and my children are my best friends.
Tracy
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
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>Well said, I do agree.
> I watch those kids and feel really sad for them. They're not bad
> kids -
> but they sure have a tight rein on them. One day though I know it
> will
> backfire on those parents. You can't hold a child down so tight
> for so
> long and treat them so disrespectfully without it coming back to
> bite
> you.
{OT} I really hate the commercials {we have them here} Talking about
if you love your children invade their privicy and such. {drug
commercials I think} Wouldn't it make more sense to be your child's
friend. And I disagree very much with those who say you can't be a
parent and a friend. My husband and my children are my best friends.
Tracy
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
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[email protected]
In a message dated 3/7/2003 4:03:30 PM Central Standard Time,
dackroyd@... writes:
up, I try to be as much like her as I can.
My Dad once tried the children are starving, and would like a good plate
of torsk for their supper. I told him it was perfectly fine with me, and
suggested that we could send them my torsk serving anytime.
He didn't mention it again. Although he got his fill of torsk.
I also agree that Johnny, will never forget being tied to the chair
by his mother.
Lynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dackroyd@... writes:
> "If you're the one who gaveThis drives me crazy, My Mom was so good to us when we were growing
> them too much food why should they have to eat more?"
up, I try to be as much like her as I can.
My Dad once tried the children are starving, and would like a good plate
of torsk for their supper. I told him it was perfectly fine with me, and
suggested that we could send them my torsk serving anytime.
He didn't mention it again. Although he got his fill of torsk.
I also agree that Johnny, will never forget being tied to the chair
by his mother.
Lynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Oh goodness, we had some similar experiences here too. One of my daughter's friends was over while her dad visited across the street.
My daughter went over to eat with the neighbors and the dad had a problem with the fact that I dont' make my kids eat everything.
UGH
Kristen
My daughter went over to eat with the neighbors and the dad had a problem with the fact that I dont' make my kids eat everything.
UGH
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Dawn Ackroyd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 5:00 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Johnny can learn
Isn't that the true. We have some 'friends' (or perhaps I should say
acquaintances) who pride themselves on how strict they are as parents.
We know them through church and they really don't have any friends. It's
easy to see why because they're quite obnoxious. Somehow they've decided
we're their friends though. My husband is pretty tolerant and
non-judgmental towards people, and so I think that is one of the ways
they've wormed their way into our lives. We had them over for dinner
once and all the kids were eating at the kitchen table while the adults
took their plates and sat in the living room. The mother went back into
the kitchen after a while and bopped their kids on the head's for no
reason at all and then sat there and proceeded to give it to them until
they cleaned their plates totally. My daughter (who is almost 5) was
really shocked at how this woman was acting towards these children. She
has a real keen sense of fairness and of how people should be treated. I
could see her wheels just turning while this woman was basically on the
war path with their kids. The adults had dished up the kids food and my
daughter said, "In our house we don't have to eat it all if we're full."
The woman was quite taken back and basically told my daughter she ought
to use good manners. My daughter retorted, "If you're the one who gave
them too much food why should they have to eat more?"
I could hear this going on in the kitchen and purposely didn't go in.
When the woman came back into the living room she said to me, "Your
daughter took exception to me making my children eat all the food on
their plates." I just smiled and said, "She sure knows how to bring up a
good argument, doesn't she?"
That was about the end of the conversation...and the dinner was a rather
short one too (thank goodness). I was happy to see my daughter isn't
afraid to talk to someone like that about such ridiculous behavior. She
wasn't rude, but quite matter of fact in her observance that this woman
was being ridiculous. I loved it.
I watch those kids and feel really sad for them. They're not bad kids -
but they sure have a tight rein on them. One day though I know it will
backfire on those parents. You can't hold a child down so tight for so
long and treat them so disrespectfully without it coming back to bite
you.
Dawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Sorcha [mailto:sorcha-aisling@...]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Johnny can learn
Someday Johnny will be 1. bigger than his mother, 2. stronger than his
mother, and 3. harboring tremendous anger and resentment toward her.
And then she'll have a serious problem on her hands.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
I'm so glad you mentioned that because I was just thinking about that today.
What *is* wrong with being both a parent and a friend? What is *that* all about!?
WHY did I ever think that was right?
And, I agree totally about the commercials. I'll be darned if I'm going to invade my kids' privacy like that. I don't need to. They tell me all kinds of stuff that most parents would find shocking.
I feel so sorry for kids today. This society is so anti-kid its like a crime to be under 18.
Kristen
What *is* wrong with being both a parent and a friend? What is *that* all about!?
WHY did I ever think that was right?
And, I agree totally about the commercials. I'll be darned if I'm going to invade my kids' privacy like that. I don't need to. They tell me all kinds of stuff that most parents would find shocking.
I feel so sorry for kids today. This society is so anti-kid its like a crime to be under 18.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: sablehs
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Johnny can learn
--- Dawn Ackroyd <dackroyd@...> wrote:
>
> I watch those kids and feel really sad for them. They're not bad
> kids -
> but they sure have a tight rein on them. One day though I know it
> will
> backfire on those parents. You can't hold a child down so tight
> for so
> long and treat them so disrespectfully without it coming back to
> bite
> you.
Well said, I do agree.
{OT} I really hate the commercials {we have them here} Talking about
if you love your children invade their privicy and such. {drug
commercials I think} Wouldn't it make more sense to be your child's
friend. And I disagree very much with those who say you can't be a
parent and a friend. My husband and my children are my best friends.
Tracy
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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[email protected]
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/7/03 7:08:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, encadia@...
writes:
went to bed and got up to the same food for breakfast. That was part of what
started us down our path. My DH and I discussed all those issues before we
had children and we decided, he grew up under similar circumstances, that we
would never do that to our children they would have the choice about what,
when, where and how much food to eat.
I remember when my oldest was about 6 months old and we started to introduce
foods into his diet, he clamped his mouth shut after the first spoonful and
wouldn't open it. That was the first and last time we spoon fed him. LOL.
Same thing happened with my youngest. After that they fed themselves.
My DH's brother and brother's wife have a young one. We went to visit and it
was so funny to watch them feed that baby. Shovel it in and fast. I don't
think he even had time to taste the food, we all sat and watched in
amazement. They were always in a hurry but that was incredible. They are of
the "clean your plate" club.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> This drives me crazy, My Mom was so good to us when we were growingMy Mom made us sit at the table until we ate everything. If bedtime came we
> up, I try to be as much like her as I can.
> My Dad once tried the children are starving, and would like a good plate
> of torsk for their supper. I told him it was perfectly fine with me, and
> suggested that we could send them my torsk serving anytime.
> He didn't mention it again. Although he got his fill of torsk.
>
>
went to bed and got up to the same food for breakfast. That was part of what
started us down our path. My DH and I discussed all those issues before we
had children and we decided, he grew up under similar circumstances, that we
would never do that to our children they would have the choice about what,
when, where and how much food to eat.
I remember when my oldest was about 6 months old and we started to introduce
foods into his diet, he clamped his mouth shut after the first spoonful and
wouldn't open it. That was the first and last time we spoon fed him. LOL.
Same thing happened with my youngest. After that they fed themselves.
My DH's brother and brother's wife have a young one. We went to visit and it
was so funny to watch them feed that baby. Shovel it in and fast. I don't
think he even had time to taste the food, we all sat and watched in
amazement. They were always in a hurry but that was incredible. They are of
the "clean your plate" club.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
myfunny4
--- In [email protected], genant2@a... wrote:
Aaahaaa!
I always thought I was *on the fringe* because I never spoon fed my
kids. When they showed an interest in food, demonstrating by trying
to snatch food off my plate or out of my mouth <g>, I would give them
soft bits of food to pick up and eat on their own. Gradually, they
learned to use a spoon for carrying food to their mouth...after
learning that the spoon wasn't a comfortable fit in their ear or
their nostril.
Getting together with other moms was often a bewildering experience
for me; what I thought was normal and natural was *different* in
their eyes.
Debbie
> I remember when my oldest was about 6 months old and we started tointroduce
> foods into his diet, he clamped his mouth shut after the firstspoonful and
> wouldn't open it. That was the first and last time we spoon fedhim.
Aaahaaa!
I always thought I was *on the fringe* because I never spoon fed my
kids. When they showed an interest in food, demonstrating by trying
to snatch food off my plate or out of my mouth <g>, I would give them
soft bits of food to pick up and eat on their own. Gradually, they
learned to use a spoon for carrying food to their mouth...after
learning that the spoon wasn't a comfortable fit in their ear or
their nostril.
Getting together with other moms was often a bewildering experience
for me; what I thought was normal and natural was *different* in
their eyes.
Debbie
[email protected]
On the subect of force and eating, my husband has a relative that comes to
theodd family gathering at our house. They have a son 2 years younger than
mine who is delayed due to vaccine damage. Josh is non-verbal, and cannot
defend himself or discuss things with his parents at all. He often does not
want to eat at meals, and we have witnessed his mom plug his nose, stuff food
in and make him chew.My son was very disturbed by this and we talked about it
alot afterwards.
How very sad.This little guy has no choices at all, even about his own body.
Nancy L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
theodd family gathering at our house. They have a son 2 years younger than
mine who is delayed due to vaccine damage. Josh is non-verbal, and cannot
defend himself or discuss things with his parents at all. He often does not
want to eat at meals, and we have witnessed his mom plug his nose, stuff food
in and make him chew.My son was very disturbed by this and we talked about it
alot afterwards.
How very sad.This little guy has no choices at all, even about his own body.
Nancy L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummyone24
--- In [email protected], Have a Nice Day!
<litlrooh@c...> wrote:
<<And, I agree totally about the commercials. I'll be darned if I'm
going to invade my kids' privacy like that. I don't need to. They
tell me all kinds of stuff that most parents would find shocking.>>
Now I'm sure all the parents here will swear that they know their
kids and that their kids aren't doing anything they don't know about.
We hear all the good stuff and not much of the bad except with very
young kids and from people just starting to unschool. Has anyone run
across any problems with unschooled children once they hit their
teens and after?
I've had lots of problems with Tara but chalk it up to divorce, how
her dad treated her and the environment she grew up in for so long.
I've been fairly even with how I've treated her even though we
weren't unschooling. Granted the 3 younger ones are raised different
but not so much that I think it would make a very big difference. So
sometimes I worry that they too will tell me things that they will
swear to and then possibly I'll find out otherwise at another time.
Mary B
<litlrooh@c...> wrote:
<<And, I agree totally about the commercials. I'll be darned if I'm
going to invade my kids' privacy like that. I don't need to. They
tell me all kinds of stuff that most parents would find shocking.>>
Now I'm sure all the parents here will swear that they know their
kids and that their kids aren't doing anything they don't know about.
We hear all the good stuff and not much of the bad except with very
young kids and from people just starting to unschool. Has anyone run
across any problems with unschooled children once they hit their
teens and after?
I've had lots of problems with Tara but chalk it up to divorce, how
her dad treated her and the environment she grew up in for so long.
I've been fairly even with how I've treated her even though we
weren't unschooling. Granted the 3 younger ones are raised different
but not so much that I think it would make a very big difference. So
sometimes I worry that they too will tell me things that they will
swear to and then possibly I'll find out otherwise at another time.
Mary B
coyote's corner
So will society.
I knew a mom that made her child sit and eat whatever she gave him.
Sometimes he sat at the table all day! Then she decided that he had a time
limit. What he didn't eat was saved until the next meal. He spent the night
at our house; she brought that morning's cereal, he was supposed to have it
the next morning!
They are not our belongings, they are not 'ours'. They are borrowed from the
future.
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Sorcha [mailto:sorcha-aisling@...]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Johnny can learn
Someday Johnny will be 1. bigger than his mother, 2. stronger than his
mother, and 3. harboring tremendous anger and resentment toward her.
And then she'll have a serious problem on her hands.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I knew a mom that made her child sit and eat whatever she gave him.
Sometimes he sat at the table all day! Then she decided that he had a time
limit. What he didn't eat was saved until the next meal. He spent the night
at our house; she brought that morning's cereal, he was supposed to have it
the next morning!
They are not our belongings, they are not 'ours'. They are borrowed from the
future.
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Sorcha [mailto:sorcha-aisling@...]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Johnny can learn
Someday Johnny will be 1. bigger than his mother, 2. stronger than his
mother, and 3. harboring tremendous anger and resentment toward her.
And then she'll have a serious problem on her hands.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/7/03 7:45:13 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< Now I'm sure all the parents here will swear that they know their
kids and that their kids aren't doing anything they don't know about.
We hear all the good stuff and not much of the bad except with very
young kids and from people just starting to unschool. Has anyone run
across any problems with unschooled children once they hit their
teens and after? >>
I think the definition of "problems" would be a factor.
My kids are still really open with me.
In a family that would be really appalled if a boy had ever peeked at a dirty
magazine or if a kid went to a concert and took a toke of a passing pipe,
those would be huge problems. For me, they wouldn't be huge problems. And
because of that, my kids still talk to me.
I always know where they are or who they're with (if not both, or sometimes
it's once removed--I call the friend who DOES know). I've never been unable
to find them. Kirby never misses work or karate. Marty is sweet and
helpful. They're 16 and 14.
I think because we've never had punishments they've never had the motivation
to lie, because there's not a line they can't cross. Questions and concerns
are handled with discussion, and I don't 'discuss' them to death.
Sandra
<< Now I'm sure all the parents here will swear that they know their
kids and that their kids aren't doing anything they don't know about.
We hear all the good stuff and not much of the bad except with very
young kids and from people just starting to unschool. Has anyone run
across any problems with unschooled children once they hit their
teens and after? >>
I think the definition of "problems" would be a factor.
My kids are still really open with me.
In a family that would be really appalled if a boy had ever peeked at a dirty
magazine or if a kid went to a concert and took a toke of a passing pipe,
those would be huge problems. For me, they wouldn't be huge problems. And
because of that, my kids still talk to me.
I always know where they are or who they're with (if not both, or sometimes
it's once removed--I call the friend who DOES know). I've never been unable
to find them. Kirby never misses work or karate. Marty is sweet and
helpful. They're 16 and 14.
I think because we've never had punishments they've never had the motivation
to lie, because there's not a line they can't cross. Questions and concerns
are handled with discussion, and I don't 'discuss' them to death.
Sandra
Cathy Hilde
"This little guy has no choices at all, even about his own body."
Yes indeed and ultimately that mom is setting her son up for the real
probability of abuse throughout his life. This child may be learning not to
trust his own instincts about *body boundaries* (which I believe is a
natural part of development). How will he know what to say "NO" to?
If his natural instinct is being compromised someone at some point is going
to have to teach him what didn't develop. All too often, especially with
people with disabilities, it's our State or Federal penal systems. This kind
of thing is so troubling to me.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: LOWRIEK@... [mailto:LOWRIEK@...]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Johnny can learn
On the subect of force and eating, my husband has a relative that comes to
theodd family gathering at our house. They have a son 2 years younger than
mine who is delayed due to vaccine damage. Josh is non-verbal, and cannot
defend himself or discuss things with his parents at all. He often does
not
want to eat at meals, and we have witnessed his mom plug his nose, stuff
food
in and make him chew.My son was very disturbed by this and we talked about
it
alot afterwards.
How very sad.This little guy has no choices at all, even about his own
body.
Nancy L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes indeed and ultimately that mom is setting her son up for the real
probability of abuse throughout his life. This child may be learning not to
trust his own instincts about *body boundaries* (which I believe is a
natural part of development). How will he know what to say "NO" to?
If his natural instinct is being compromised someone at some point is going
to have to teach him what didn't develop. All too often, especially with
people with disabilities, it's our State or Federal penal systems. This kind
of thing is so troubling to me.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: LOWRIEK@... [mailto:LOWRIEK@...]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Johnny can learn
On the subect of force and eating, my husband has a relative that comes to
theodd family gathering at our house. They have a son 2 years younger than
mine who is delayed due to vaccine damage. Josh is non-verbal, and cannot
defend himself or discuss things with his parents at all. He often does
not
want to eat at meals, and we have witnessed his mom plug his nose, stuff
food
in and make him chew.My son was very disturbed by this and we talked about
it
alot afterwards.
How very sad.This little guy has no choices at all, even about his own
body.
Nancy L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
>at our house; she brought that morning's cereal, he was supposed to have itI hope you threw it out, and in front of the little boy!! Poor kid.
>the next morning!
Someone needs to have a little talk with her about child abuse. She's
definitely losing it...
HeidiWD
Pamela Sorooshian
On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 06:43 PM, mummyone24 wrote:
independent and sometimes think they are way more capable than they
really are. They often have come to highly value eccentricity and
sometimes they kind of force it or go awfully far with it. They are
very very tolerant and accepting - sometimes this translates into
gullible and easy to take advantage of. They tend to be very idealistic
and sometimes impractical.
All of these traits are also pretty wonderful, too, and they tend to be
incredibly caring (mixed in with some normal levels of
self-centeredness) and kind and self-examining and deep-thinking
people. I enjoy them a LOT.
--pam
> Has anyone runI know quite a few unschooled teens and some are opinionated and
> across any problems with unschooled children once they hit their
> teens and after?
>
independent and sometimes think they are way more capable than they
really are. They often have come to highly value eccentricity and
sometimes they kind of force it or go awfully far with it. They are
very very tolerant and accepting - sometimes this translates into
gullible and easy to take advantage of. They tend to be very idealistic
and sometimes impractical.
All of these traits are also pretty wonderful, too, and they tend to be
incredibly caring (mixed in with some normal levels of
self-centeredness) and kind and self-examining and deep-thinking
people. I enjoy them a LOT.
--pam
Pamela Sorooshian
On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 07:07 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
openly too. As much as I'm glad about that, and appreciate it, I will
admit that it can be disconcerting.
They are not immune to trying out drugs, alcohol, sex, fast driving,
and other risky behaviors - but I notice that they take every decision
they make pretty seriously and they talk about it and analyze the
effects on their lives and so on.
-pam
> My kids are still really open with me.Mine too. I'm sure of it. Other unschooled teens talk to me pretty
openly too. As much as I'm glad about that, and appreciate it, I will
admit that it can be disconcerting.
They are not immune to trying out drugs, alcohol, sex, fast driving,
and other risky behaviors - but I notice that they take every decision
they make pretty seriously and they talk about it and analyze the
effects on their lives and so on.
-pam
Sorcha
>>My Mom made us sit at the table until we ate everything. If bedtimecame we
went to bed and got up to the same food for breakfast.<<
My parents did this too. And my favorite rule - you have to eat seconds
at every meal whether you want them or not. Why? I never could figure
that out. I'd say I was happy with one serving and they'd say, "You
have to have seconds. It's *dinner*." Like somehow that makes sense.
And on the weekends they'd give us each 12 pancakes for breakfast and
load us in the car to drive an hour to Pittsburgh to walk around the
mall. After the 12 pancakes my stomach would feel like a rock and then
on the car ride I'd start feeling carsick, which lasted all day while I
was supposed to be thankful that I got to walk around a mall. Then I
was supposed to eat seconds at the next meal. To this day, just the
thought of pancakes hurts my stomach.
My brother has a weight problem. I have a weight problem. So do my
parents. I literally don't know when I've eaten too much. If there's
still food, I keep eating. I've been known to keep eating until I have
to literally go lie down, I was so stuffed. But I didn't realize from
the feeling in my stomach I was too full. I usually don't realize until
I'm lightheaded.
So, of course, I've decided my kids can eat what they want, when they
want, and how much they want. Which my parents think is a ridiculous
way to raise children. It means I buy "special" foods that my kids like
so they don't have to eat meals my husband and I like that they don't.
I don't see what's ridiculous about letting a kid say he doesn't like
chili or chicken wings. When my father once tried to force (cajole) him
to eat something spicy, I said, "That can give children acid burns."
That shut him up fast, and he spent the rest of the meal pondering and
muttering, wondering if it was true. I don't know if it's true or not,
but if it feels to the kid like his mouth is on fire, he shouldn't have
to eat it. Geez.
I could really write a book, but I'll stop now. :-)
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorcha
Um, duh, that should say "your". I'm off for some coffee right now .
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorcha
>>So will society.<<Too true. People who abuse children make me so mad I literally can't
think straight.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/7/03 9:24:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, LOWRIEK@...
writes:
force feed.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> He often does notThat is sad. Treat him worse than you would a dog. Even a dog you wouldn't
> want to eat at meals, and we have witnessed his mom plug his nose, stuff
> food
> in and make him chew.
force feed.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/8/03 9:13:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:
dieting or eating constantly to never experience hunger. I am currently
trying to get back to only eating when I am hungry. I made it an unconscious
habit before, but lost it when I got on Paxil for PostPartum
Depression(that's a whole 'nother Saga)
It's not a new concept, but I gave it a new term: Undieting. I am even
trying to get a new email list going, and here is the description(LOL at the
Keywords, inspired by unschooling)
"This page is for learning how to reject the diet mentality. Undieting
implies no longer being a slave to diets, the diet industry, and anything
that has a disclaimer "results not typical" after showing how thin and
beautiful you can be with their product or plan. This list focuses on eating
by biological hunger and satiety cues, not by someone else telling you how
control the food because you can't be trusted. The power to eat like a
"normal person" is within you. We will unlock your potential to become a free
eater by exploring the many methods of conquering compulsive overeating.
KEYWORDS: undieting, undiet, natural eating, hunger-led eating "
I think UN is my favorite word (or prefix anyway). I participate in a
tightwad aol community and my tag line is "unschooling, undebting,
undieting". Undebting because I stopped running up credit cards and have
finally paid them all off, debt free except for mortgage and used Volvo loan.
Anyhoo, here is a link for a book that changed my life....
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061013382/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/102-8970099-5984924?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader#reader-link">
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061013382/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/102-89
70099-5984924?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader#reader-link</A>
this is amazon's take a peak page for "the Seven Secrets of Slim People", a
book for folks who want to learn how to eat like a "normal person" but lost
that instinct somewhere along the way. This book has reference to other
like-minded authors like Geneen Roth(Breaking Free from Compulsive Eating),
Bob Schwartz(Diets Don't Work)
Just some of my passions for the "un" LOL
Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sorcha-aisling@... writes:
> My brother has a weight problem. I have a weight problem. So do myI can totally relate. I have eaten my whole life either ignoring hunger by
> parents. I literally don't know when I've eaten too much. If there's
> still food, I keep eating. I've been known to keep eating until I have
> to literally go lie down, I was so stuffed. But I didn't realize from
> the feeling in my stomach I was too full. I usually don't realize until
> I'm lightheaded.
>
> So, of course, I've decided my kids can eat what they want, when they
> want, and how much they want
dieting or eating constantly to never experience hunger. I am currently
trying to get back to only eating when I am hungry. I made it an unconscious
habit before, but lost it when I got on Paxil for PostPartum
Depression(that's a whole 'nother Saga)
It's not a new concept, but I gave it a new term: Undieting. I am even
trying to get a new email list going, and here is the description(LOL at the
Keywords, inspired by unschooling)
"This page is for learning how to reject the diet mentality. Undieting
implies no longer being a slave to diets, the diet industry, and anything
that has a disclaimer "results not typical" after showing how thin and
beautiful you can be with their product or plan. This list focuses on eating
by biological hunger and satiety cues, not by someone else telling you how
control the food because you can't be trusted. The power to eat like a
"normal person" is within you. We will unlock your potential to become a free
eater by exploring the many methods of conquering compulsive overeating.
KEYWORDS: undieting, undiet, natural eating, hunger-led eating "
I think UN is my favorite word (or prefix anyway). I participate in a
tightwad aol community and my tag line is "unschooling, undebting,
undieting". Undebting because I stopped running up credit cards and have
finally paid them all off, debt free except for mortgage and used Volvo loan.
Anyhoo, here is a link for a book that changed my life....
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061013382/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/102-8970099-5984924?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader#reader-link">
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061013382/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/102-89
70099-5984924?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader#reader-link</A>
this is amazon's take a peak page for "the Seven Secrets of Slim People", a
book for folks who want to learn how to eat like a "normal person" but lost
that instinct somewhere along the way. This book has reference to other
like-minded authors like Geneen Roth(Breaking Free from Compulsive Eating),
Bob Schwartz(Diets Don't Work)
Just some of my passions for the "un" LOL
Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/7/03 9:44:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:
the parents don't know about I think it is that the parents trust the kids to
make decisions for themselves, if the parents know about it or not. And I
think everyone, parent or child, makes good and not so good choices. And
probably a lot more to be said on this subject but I just got up and am a
little foggy right now. LOL
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummyone24@... writes:
> Now I'm sure all the parents here will swear that they know theirMy boys are young but I don't think it is that the kids aren't doing anything
> kids and that their kids aren't doing anything they don't know about
the parents don't know about I think it is that the parents trust the kids to
make decisions for themselves, if the parents know about it or not. And I
think everyone, parent or child, makes good and not so good choices. And
probably a lot more to be said on this subject but I just got up and am a
little foggy right now. LOL
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/8/03 3:02:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
think it was recommended on this list. I have had this book on the shelf(a
library discard) and wished I'd read it sooner....I am already trying to
watch my responses to my kids feelings, I always thought it was my job to
analyze and make suggestions and whatnot. How much do I hate it when my hubby
does that to me, and minimizes my feelings? DUH.
Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
> >My kids are still really open with me.I have been dabbling in my copy of "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen....." I
>
> Mine too. I'm sure of it.
think it was recommended on this list. I have had this book on the shelf(a
library discard) and wished I'd read it sooner....I am already trying to
watch my responses to my kids feelings, I always thought it was my job to
analyze and make suggestions and whatnot. How much do I hate it when my hubby
does that to me, and minimizes my feelings? DUH.
Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> So, of course, I've decided my kids can eat what they want, when theyI had never heard of forcing seconds, why not just put more on the first
> want, and how much they want. Which my parents think is a ridiculous
> way to raise children. It means I buy "special" foods that my kids like
> so they don't have to eat meals my husband and I like that they don't.
>
serving? My parents were a product of their time too. We were forced to eat
vegetables, limited sugars, constantly on a diet and we all have weight
problems. My mother weighed exactly 104 pounds every day, and somehow I
remember knowing this at the age of 5! I told my kindergarden teacher.
So, you'd think they would be more argumentative over how my children eat,
but they aren't. My two are the youngest of 6 grandchildren, they've seen
the food battles from my sister's and brother's kids. We have no food
battles, my parents enjoy a nice quiet dinner with adult conversation. The
kids eat if they are hungry, eat what they want and then go play. No
whining, no fuss, no begging, no bribery of broccoli for cookies. It's the
one area my parents feel we are doing well with raising our kids.
I still overeat at my mother's house. I'll be 39 in a few weeks.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/8/03 9:14:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:
boys that they had to finish their food and I kept gently reminding him that
they didn't because we didn't do things that way. It came to blows, not
literally, when we were at McDs. after a story group, his choice of
restaurants. The boys each got a Happy Meal and were playing with the toys.
He grabbed the toys and yelled at them that they couldn't have them back
until they finished their food. My boys were stunned at first because they
had never been spoken to like that, then they reached over to where the toys
were placed and took them back. They were 3 1/2 and 6 at the time. I almost
lost it. I told him that he will never speak to my boys like that and that
they do not have to eat anything if they don't want to. Then he looked out
the window and started making fun of an overweight lady in the parking lot.
I said something like that wasn't a nice thing to say and talked with the
boys about hurting people's feelings etc after. He was just so aggressive
without DH around, he worked that day. And I am sure he had some stories to
tell about my weight when he went back to the rest of the family in South
Dakota. I told DH that if he tried anything like that again he would be
staying at a hotel. Good thing he only visits about every 2 years. The
thing is other than to tell them to finish their meal etc he hardly talks to
the boys. He talks over them and ignores them which irritates me. Anyway
enough on that rant.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sorcha-aisling@... writes:
> . Which my parents think is a ridiculousMy father-in-law, when he came to visit the last time, kept trying to tell my
> way to raise children.
boys that they had to finish their food and I kept gently reminding him that
they didn't because we didn't do things that way. It came to blows, not
literally, when we were at McDs. after a story group, his choice of
restaurants. The boys each got a Happy Meal and were playing with the toys.
He grabbed the toys and yelled at them that they couldn't have them back
until they finished their food. My boys were stunned at first because they
had never been spoken to like that, then they reached over to where the toys
were placed and took them back. They were 3 1/2 and 6 at the time. I almost
lost it. I told him that he will never speak to my boys like that and that
they do not have to eat anything if they don't want to. Then he looked out
the window and started making fun of an overweight lady in the parking lot.
I said something like that wasn't a nice thing to say and talked with the
boys about hurting people's feelings etc after. He was just so aggressive
without DH around, he worked that day. And I am sure he had some stories to
tell about my weight when he went back to the rest of the family in South
Dakota. I told DH that if he tried anything like that again he would be
staying at a hotel. Good thing he only visits about every 2 years. The
thing is other than to tell them to finish their meal etc he hardly talks to
the boys. He talks over them and ignores them which irritates me. Anyway
enough on that rant.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/8/03 12:58:11 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< I know quite a few unschooled teens and some are opinionated and
independent and sometimes think they are way more capable than they
really are. They often have come to highly value eccentricity and
sometimes they kind of force it or go awfully far with it. >>
I know some of that California crowd from conferences there. They're more
flamboyant and self-conscious (not thinking of the best word for what I'm
thinking) than those I know in New Mexico. The kids here seem calmer and
more conservative socially (not in a Republican kind of way, but in a less
dyed-hair and loud kind of way) than some I'm thinking of. Then again, when
I see them, there's company, and when I see them there are often lots of
other kids and you can get the festive exceptional behavior. The local
kids I see when they're audience-free.
What both those samples have in common, in my mind, is confidence and
thoughtfulness, consideration for younger kids and the ability to communicate
with adults without the eye-aversion or fear/disdain I see in schooled kids
of their age.
Sandra
<< I know quite a few unschooled teens and some are opinionated and
independent and sometimes think they are way more capable than they
really are. They often have come to highly value eccentricity and
sometimes they kind of force it or go awfully far with it. >>
I know some of that California crowd from conferences there. They're more
flamboyant and self-conscious (not thinking of the best word for what I'm
thinking) than those I know in New Mexico. The kids here seem calmer and
more conservative socially (not in a Republican kind of way, but in a less
dyed-hair and loud kind of way) than some I'm thinking of. Then again, when
I see them, there's company, and when I see them there are often lots of
other kids and you can get the festive exceptional behavior. The local
kids I see when they're audience-free.
What both those samples have in common, in my mind, is confidence and
thoughtfulness, consideration for younger kids and the ability to communicate
with adults without the eye-aversion or fear/disdain I see in schooled kids
of their age.
Sandra
Dawn Ackroyd
One thing that amazed me when I taught school (and formed how I talk to
my children now) is how disrespectfully parents talk to their children.
If your FIL did that to another adult he wouldn't have friends or
acquaintances or family who spent any time with him for very long!! It's
amazing that somehow people think because children are smaller human
beings than them, that they can talk to them and treat them like that.
-----Original Message-----
From: genant2@... [mailto:genant2@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 8:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The clean-you-plate-club
In a message dated 3/8/03 9:14:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:
tell my
boys that they had to finish their food and I kept gently reminding him
that
they didn't because we didn't do things that way. It came to blows, not
literally, when we were at McDs. after a story group, his choice of
restaurants. The boys each got a Happy Meal and were playing with the
toys.
He grabbed the toys and yelled at them that they couldn't have them back
until they finished their food. My boys were stunned at first because
they
had never been spoken to like that, then they reached over to where the
toys
were placed and took them back. They were 3 1/2 and 6 at the time. I
almost
lost it. I told him that he will never speak to my boys like that and
that
they do not have to eat anything if they don't want to. Then he looked
out
the window and started making fun of an overweight lady in the parking
lot.
I said something like that wasn't a nice thing to say and talked with
the
boys about hurting people's feelings etc after. He was just so
aggressive
without DH around, he worked that day. And I am sure he had some
stories to
tell about my weight when he went back to the rest of the family in
South
Dakota. I told DH that if he tried anything like that again he would be
staying at a hotel. Good thing he only visits about every 2 years. The
thing is other than to tell them to finish their meal etc he hardly
talks to
the boys. He talks over them and ignores them which irritates me.
Anyway
enough on that rant.
Pam G.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my children now) is how disrespectfully parents talk to their children.
If your FIL did that to another adult he wouldn't have friends or
acquaintances or family who spent any time with him for very long!! It's
amazing that somehow people think because children are smaller human
beings than them, that they can talk to them and treat them like that.
-----Original Message-----
From: genant2@... [mailto:genant2@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 8:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The clean-you-plate-club
In a message dated 3/8/03 9:14:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:
> . Which my parents think is a ridiculousMy father-in-law, when he came to visit the last time, kept trying to
> way to raise children.
tell my
boys that they had to finish their food and I kept gently reminding him
that
they didn't because we didn't do things that way. It came to blows, not
literally, when we were at McDs. after a story group, his choice of
restaurants. The boys each got a Happy Meal and were playing with the
toys.
He grabbed the toys and yelled at them that they couldn't have them back
until they finished their food. My boys were stunned at first because
they
had never been spoken to like that, then they reached over to where the
toys
were placed and took them back. They were 3 1/2 and 6 at the time. I
almost
lost it. I told him that he will never speak to my boys like that and
that
they do not have to eat anything if they don't want to. Then he looked
out
the window and started making fun of an overweight lady in the parking
lot.
I said something like that wasn't a nice thing to say and talked with
the
boys about hurting people's feelings etc after. He was just so
aggressive
without DH around, he worked that day. And I am sure he had some
stories to
tell about my weight when he went back to the rest of the family in
South
Dakota. I told DH that if he tried anything like that again he would be
staying at a hotel. Good thing he only visits about every 2 years. The
thing is other than to tell them to finish their meal etc he hardly
talks to
the boys. He talks over them and ignores them which irritates me.
Anyway
enough on that rant.
Pam G.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/8/03 8:26:38 AM, genant2@... writes:
<< I almost
lost it. I told him that he will never speak to my boys like that and that
they do not have to eat anything if they don't want to. Then he looked out
the window and started making fun of an overweight lady in the parking lot.
Playing would have been better for her health."
Sandra
<< I almost
lost it. I told him that he will never speak to my boys like that and that
they do not have to eat anything if they don't want to. Then he looked out
the window and started making fun of an overweight lady in the parking lot.
>>I would have said "Probably people forced her to eat before she could play.
Playing would have been better for her health."
Sandra
Mary Bianco
>From: SandraDodd@...<<I think the definition of "problems" would be a factor.
My kids are still really open with me.
In a family that would be really appalled if a boy had ever peeked at a
dirty magazine or if a kid went to a concert and took a toke of a passing
pipe, those would be huge problems. For me, they wouldn't be huge problems.
And because of that, my kids still talk to me.>>
I understand what you are saying and I totally agree. None of those things
would be a big deal to me either. And I really want to know that even the
teenage years can be as wonderful as the younger ones. I don't want to hear
problem stuff. I guess for me it would be if I found out my child was lying
to me about things. I just see so many homeschoolers here still go through
all the junk a lot of teenagers do that are in school. I really haven't seen
a lot of them do better. Now I also know homeschoolers that seem like really
great kids with no issues like some, at least it seems that way.
What I'm trying to say is that I generally don't have any doubts or
questions at all that unschooling is the best way to go. But at the same
time, when I think of my 3 youngest hitting the teen years, I can't help but
wonder if things will be so different for them then what I went through
before. I know the circumstances are very different and I'm counting on
being right. Maybe I just have some guilt left over from thinking I knew my
child and being totally wrong.
Sandra, being that you talk so much about your children, I feel like I
almost know them. Every time I get to wondering, I think of you and your
kids and hope my situation will be similar.
Mary B
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