Re: Deschooling
A. Yates
>When you figure this out, will you please let me know? I have the very same
> How do I deschool myself
> to get to the point where I can unschool them?
problem! :)
A
Mara Winders
OK, I'm on a roll now :-)
Zachary has been in Kindergarten this year. He is learning and enjoying
- not having any kind of trouble in the classroom. Many people close to
us had "worried" about how he would adapt to a classroom situation
because he is fairly high energy, and challenges adult authority often
and vehemently. My dh and I have learned alternative ways of looking at
his "challenging" behavior(s), but of course, older relatives (old
school kinds), are sure that we are destined for problems by allowing
him so much freedom, and were sure that he would have difficulty
adjusting to the classroom situations. There have been some outbursts
*at home* because of emotions being bottled up at school during the
day. Going to school was completely his choice, and it seems that he is
willing to put up with all the garbage to be there. When he comes home,
he is able to let loose. Not really fun for us, but I think we have
done a decent job of supporting his outbursts at home.
So anyway....I don't feel that Zachary has really been pushed to learn
very much while in Kindergarten, although he has been *told* what to do
and when. He likes to do worksheet papers, he will do some on his own
at home. He seemed ready to learn most of what was presented this year
so far. I'm hoping that he won't need much of a deschooling process
next year.
Part of my relationship with my children in the past has been
"quizzing", "checking", asking them to perform. I have done my best to
put this to rest. When they ask me a question though, I am torn.
Sometimes I feel like I should just answer the question or do for them
what they have asked (for example: when they point to a word and ask
what it says). Sometimes I feel like I should be asking "well what do
you think?" or "how can we find an answer to that?" but when I ask it,
it feels like I'm almost back to "quizzing" them. Do you know what I
mean? Is there a better way of going about this that will encourage
them to do more of the learning on their own? Is that part of
deschooling them from by schooled backround? How do I deschool myself
to get to the point where I can unschool them?
Mara in TX who has obviously has a lot on her mind :-O
Zachary has been in Kindergarten this year. He is learning and enjoying
- not having any kind of trouble in the classroom. Many people close to
us had "worried" about how he would adapt to a classroom situation
because he is fairly high energy, and challenges adult authority often
and vehemently. My dh and I have learned alternative ways of looking at
his "challenging" behavior(s), but of course, older relatives (old
school kinds), are sure that we are destined for problems by allowing
him so much freedom, and were sure that he would have difficulty
adjusting to the classroom situations. There have been some outbursts
*at home* because of emotions being bottled up at school during the
day. Going to school was completely his choice, and it seems that he is
willing to put up with all the garbage to be there. When he comes home,
he is able to let loose. Not really fun for us, but I think we have
done a decent job of supporting his outbursts at home.
So anyway....I don't feel that Zachary has really been pushed to learn
very much while in Kindergarten, although he has been *told* what to do
and when. He likes to do worksheet papers, he will do some on his own
at home. He seemed ready to learn most of what was presented this year
so far. I'm hoping that he won't need much of a deschooling process
next year.
Part of my relationship with my children in the past has been
"quizzing", "checking", asking them to perform. I have done my best to
put this to rest. When they ask me a question though, I am torn.
Sometimes I feel like I should just answer the question or do for them
what they have asked (for example: when they point to a word and ask
what it says). Sometimes I feel like I should be asking "well what do
you think?" or "how can we find an answer to that?" but when I ask it,
it feels like I'm almost back to "quizzing" them. Do you know what I
mean? Is there a better way of going about this that will encourage
them to do more of the learning on their own? Is that part of
deschooling them from by schooled backround? How do I deschool myself
to get to the point where I can unschool them?
Mara in TX who has obviously has a lot on her mind :-O
Beth Burnham
"He seemed ready to learn most of what was presented this year
so far. I'm hoping that he won't need much of a deschooling process
next year."
I think the deschooling process is the most exciting part from what I have
read from Betsy and others and my own summers with them as well as having
been a teacher myself.
I had taught first grade for 7 years in ps before becoming a mom and never
met a child who wasn't ready to learn the question is as I am now reading
John Holt do you believe they are empty vessels that need to be filled with
wasteful dittoes and facts? We can do that to them in school and at home or
we can learn a new way of observing and supporting them and letting them
learn naturally based on their interests and not on some stifling curriculum
dictated by a non democratic system. I would love to meet or hear more from
those of you who have successfully unschooled your kids who are now
teenagers and/or adults who have gone on to be successful at whatever they
set out to do.
Beth
so far. I'm hoping that he won't need much of a deschooling process
next year."
I think the deschooling process is the most exciting part from what I have
read from Betsy and others and my own summers with them as well as having
been a teacher myself.
I had taught first grade for 7 years in ps before becoming a mom and never
met a child who wasn't ready to learn the question is as I am now reading
John Holt do you believe they are empty vessels that need to be filled with
wasteful dittoes and facts? We can do that to them in school and at home or
we can learn a new way of observing and supporting them and letting them
learn naturally based on their interests and not on some stifling curriculum
dictated by a non democratic system. I would love to meet or hear more from
those of you who have successfully unschooled your kids who are now
teenagers and/or adults who have gone on to be successful at whatever they
set out to do.
Beth
[email protected]
In a message dated 01/31/2000 8:49:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mwinders@... writes:
<< Sometimes I feel like I should just answer the question or do for them
what they have asked (for example: when they point to a word and ask
what it says). Sometimes I feel like I should be asking "well what do
you think?" or "how can we find an answer to that?" but when I ask it,
it feels like I'm almost back to "quizzing" them.>>>>
I just tell them the word they are asking. I will sometimes say out loud
the letters as I read the word.
<<<<Do you know what I
mean? Is there a better way of going about this that will encourage
them to do more of the learning on their own? Is that part of
deschooling them from by schooled backround? How do I deschool myself
to get to the point where I can unschool them?
who spend all their online time researching homeschool that I don't do that
anymore. I immersed myself in my children, from homebirth, breastfeeding,
natural foods and alternative medicine, attachment parenting/now non-coercive
parenting and finally homeschooling/unschooling. I am tired! So you know
what I do? I spend most of my time on the sshhh, dont' tell anyone, an aol
creative scrapbooking board, where we talk about our hobby and a bunch of
other really silly stuff LOL!!! This is my deschooling!! And I have been
doing
it for almost two years now, uh oh <gg>....Now I know I am being
light here, I have been into the unschooling lifestyle for several years now,
so
I can say oh go play, but as a new unschooler I am sure you have a lot on your
mind, or maybe still trying to make up your mind how you want to go about it.
So, ease your mind, read a lot!! Go to HEM or unschooling.com. Their are
lists on onelist for deschooling, even deschooling adults. Good luck and I
hope I have made some sense in all my ramblings this evening : )
Kathy
mwinders@... writes:
<< Sometimes I feel like I should just answer the question or do for them
what they have asked (for example: when they point to a word and ask
what it says). Sometimes I feel like I should be asking "well what do
you think?" or "how can we find an answer to that?" but when I ask it,
it feels like I'm almost back to "quizzing" them.>>>>
I just tell them the word they are asking. I will sometimes say out loud
the letters as I read the word.
<<<<Do you know what I
mean? Is there a better way of going about this that will encourage
them to do more of the learning on their own? Is that part of
deschooling them from by schooled backround? How do I deschool myself
to get to the point where I can unschool them?
>>My children have never had to deschool, so I don't know. I tell my friends
who spend all their online time researching homeschool that I don't do that
anymore. I immersed myself in my children, from homebirth, breastfeeding,
natural foods and alternative medicine, attachment parenting/now non-coercive
parenting and finally homeschooling/unschooling. I am tired! So you know
what I do? I spend most of my time on the sshhh, dont' tell anyone, an aol
creative scrapbooking board, where we talk about our hobby and a bunch of
other really silly stuff LOL!!! This is my deschooling!! And I have been
doing
it for almost two years now, uh oh <gg>....Now I know I am being
light here, I have been into the unschooling lifestyle for several years now,
so
I can say oh go play, but as a new unschooler I am sure you have a lot on your
mind, or maybe still trying to make up your mind how you want to go about it.
So, ease your mind, read a lot!! Go to HEM or unschooling.com. Their are
lists on onelist for deschooling, even deschooling adults. Good luck and I
hope I have made some sense in all my ramblings this evening : )
Kathy
Beth Burnham
I spend most of my time on the sshhh, dont' tell anyone, an aol
creative scrapbooking board, where we talk about our hobby and a bunch of
other really silly stuff LOL
Kathy that is a hobby of mine I am trying to get into and would love to
check it out a friend of mine named Jane I think goes there and she is the
one who inspired me to get into it.
I imagine unschooling means you have a lot more time to pursue your hobbies
while the kidlets pursue their own as well?
Beth
creative scrapbooking board, where we talk about our hobby and a bunch of
other really silly stuff LOL
Kathy that is a hobby of mine I am trying to get into and would love to
check it out a friend of mine named Jane I think goes there and she is the
one who inspired me to get into it.
I imagine unschooling means you have a lot more time to pursue your hobbies
while the kidlets pursue their own as well?
Beth
[email protected]
In a message dated 02/02/2000 3:48:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
beth2002@... writes:
<<
Kathy that is a hobby of mine I am trying to get into and would love to
check it out a friend of mine named Jane I think goes there and she is the
one who inspired me to get into it.
I imagine unschooling means you have a lot more time to pursue your hobbies
while the kidlets pursue their own as well? >>
Yes I think it does! In fact my children scrapbook also and the two oldest
have their own scrapbooks!! I give them my extra pictures and they have
many of their own supplies, they do their own thing and they dictate what
they want journaled in their scrapbooks. I plan to make an ABC album
for my children with pics and stickers and words written around the border.
Like under "A" I have a pic of my dd dressed as an Angel in a Christmas
play, then I would put a sticker of an apple, anchor you get the idea. Check
out http://www.gracefulbee.com it is the best site for scrapbook beginners,
and also check out jangle.com. Have fun!
Kathy
beth2002@... writes:
<<
Kathy that is a hobby of mine I am trying to get into and would love to
check it out a friend of mine named Jane I think goes there and she is the
one who inspired me to get into it.
I imagine unschooling means you have a lot more time to pursue your hobbies
while the kidlets pursue their own as well? >>
Yes I think it does! In fact my children scrapbook also and the two oldest
have their own scrapbooks!! I give them my extra pictures and they have
many of their own supplies, they do their own thing and they dictate what
they want journaled in their scrapbooks. I plan to make an ABC album
for my children with pics and stickers and words written around the border.
Like under "A" I have a pic of my dd dressed as an Angel in a Christmas
play, then I would put a sticker of an apple, anchor you get the idea. Check
out http://www.gracefulbee.com it is the best site for scrapbook beginners,
and also check out jangle.com. Have fun!
Kathy
Tom & Nanci Kuykendall
>I know this is kind of a late response (don't you hate it how your messages
>Part of my relationship with my children in the past has been
>"quizzing", "checking", asking them to perform. I have done my best to
>put this to rest. When they ask me a question though, I am torn.
>
>Mara in TX
come back to haunt you?) but I am behind on my email, due to recent
exciting developments with our adoption process. If anyone is onterested
I'd be happy to share details. ANYHOW.... I feel that we should answer
our children's questions without reservation, and share with them the
process for finding answers if they ask or if we need to find the answer to
a quesiton that they ask.
I think that we are all in agreement that children should be treated with
the respect and decency that they deserve. Someone else has already
mentioned in this thread that we would be insulted if someone were to tell
us as adults to "go look it up" even in so many polite words. I also feel
that children learn best by example. If children are cynical and rude,
chances are there is someone in their life treating them that way (usually
a parent.) I am constantly amazed by how people talk to their children,
and more amazed by how aghast and surprised they are when their children
are rude to them or to others.
But also of equal importance to learning the skill of manners and social
interaction, is the skills of how to find information and answer their own
questions. What better way to teach a child these skills then by modeling
them? Being an unschooler, I believe that these skills are much better
learned by modeling and allowing them to practice these skills when they
feel ready and so inclined, rather than to lecture (even mini-lecture) lead
and coerce them into memorizing them.
Nanci K.
Tom & Nanci Kuykendall
>them? Being an unschooler, I believe that these skills are much betterI also neglected to mention that in days gone by in every culture children
>learned by modeling and allowing them to practice these skills when they
>feel ready and so inclined, rather than to lecture (even mini-lecture) lead
>and coerce them into memorizing them.
>
>Nanci K.
learned by asking questions that were answered and by following around and
observing their role models, in the family, larger community and in trades.
Whether you mean a Mason's apprentice in old England, or a Medicine Mans
hopeful successor in ancient America, they laerned the same way.
Nanci K.
Ruth MacAlister
Hi everyone!
Thanks to all for your support and advice regarding my reservations about deschooling/unschooling. Last night, I decided to quit obsessing and stop trying to determine the outcome of all this, and, instead, to go with it. This morning, I picked up eleven books on the subject of homeschool/unschool that I had scattered around my bedside, couch, dining table, etc., not counting any of the curricula/texts/workbooks I also have acquired. Seven of the eleven books actually had bookmarks in them! Can I obsess or what?!
I've decided to do as you have all been suggesting--let the girls have time to adjust and trust them to come around to learning in their own ways. In the meantime, I am going to learn something new--drawing. I've bought many books over the years to teach my children how to draw, figuring I'd get it by osmosis. This time is for me, and them, if they're interested. And, I'll finish the nearly-done remodel of our house, and spend time building Lego creations with the girls, and just being together. I feel like that is enough for a while.
In the meantime, I will likely be here, lurking--and looking for more great ideas. Thanks, again. MGB.
Ruth
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/26/2000 11:57:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ruthian@... writes:
follow. They may pick different subjects, but they won't be able to remain
idle.
FWIW, be prepared to still have to wrestle with this decision again and
again. That's okay. Don't feel like you've back tracked when it happens.
Trust it as part of the process. Evaluate where you were, where you are and
where you are headed. Each re-evaluation will make the next one that much
easier. With practice, you'll become more and more comfortable with your
decision and wonder why in the world it was ever an issue and how the rest of
world got where they are. (But you won't wonder long because then you'll be
off doing something that is right for you and your family.)
Eiraul
ruthian@... writes:
> In the meantime, I am going to learn something new--drawing.You go, girl! You're setting a great example for your girls. They'll
> I've bought many books over the years to teach my children how to draw,
> figuring I'd get it by osmosis. This time is for me, and them, if
> they're interested. And, I'll finish the nearly-done remodel of our
> house, and spend time building Lego creations with the girls, and just
> being together. I feel like that is enough for a while.
follow. They may pick different subjects, but they won't be able to remain
idle.
FWIW, be prepared to still have to wrestle with this decision again and
again. That's okay. Don't feel like you've back tracked when it happens.
Trust it as part of the process. Evaluate where you were, where you are and
where you are headed. Each re-evaluation will make the next one that much
easier. With practice, you'll become more and more comfortable with your
decision and wonder why in the world it was ever an issue and how the rest of
world got where they are. (But you won't wonder long because then you'll be
off doing something that is right for you and your family.)
Eiraul
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/8/01 2:30:57 PM, pepperberrys@... writes:
<< So should I just let him play them whenever he want??? In hope
that is a month or a year )HEHE) he will be tired of them??? >>
I would.
And I would buy them more games (tell us what system you have and we can make
recommendations) and I would DEFINITELY buy players' guides even if he can't
read them well yet--he will learn. And they have charts and maps. People
pay money for curricular materials to help kids learn to read charts and maps
and tables. Gamers learn them without even noticing.
What would be the advantage to you if your son got tired of video games?
(I don't need an answer; you do. A really thought out one.)
<,He claims he has to be a
certain age to do things like that. This is one of the negative
ideas put in his head from the public school systems!!! >>
He might be right. He might be saying "old enough" but what he probably
means is he doesn't have the understanding yet. Let it go until he knows he
DOES have it.
Pressing something too early (like reading) can cause a child to give up on
it forever, to develop an aversion, or to be destructive of books. Pressing
programming on a child who isn't ready could cause all those problems too.
People don't ride bikes who have never ever seen one. They don't learn in
the dark without knowing what it looks like. Playing video games will give
him ideas about the range of options, and the tree diagram necessities. Each
time he comes to a "branch" where he makes a choice, the program had to allow
for either choice, and it has to go on to the next routine, and change the
score, etc.
<<Do you have
any sugestions on how to deprogram him of these ideas???>>
Work on deprogramming yourself first.
First place the mask over your own nose and mouth; then help your child.
Being somewhat a-twitch yourself about unschooling still, you're not ready to
advise him. The more you watch him without expectations and really truly
SEE what he is doing, not see what he's not doing (by holding the template of
learning up and squinting through it at him), the easier it will be for you
to see what he is doing. What he is doing is learning. What you are doing
is looking through a years-old filter.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< So should I just let him play them whenever he want??? In hope
that is a month or a year )HEHE) he will be tired of them??? >>
I would.
And I would buy them more games (tell us what system you have and we can make
recommendations) and I would DEFINITELY buy players' guides even if he can't
read them well yet--he will learn. And they have charts and maps. People
pay money for curricular materials to help kids learn to read charts and maps
and tables. Gamers learn them without even noticing.
What would be the advantage to you if your son got tired of video games?
(I don't need an answer; you do. A really thought out one.)
<,He claims he has to be a
certain age to do things like that. This is one of the negative
ideas put in his head from the public school systems!!! >>
He might be right. He might be saying "old enough" but what he probably
means is he doesn't have the understanding yet. Let it go until he knows he
DOES have it.
Pressing something too early (like reading) can cause a child to give up on
it forever, to develop an aversion, or to be destructive of books. Pressing
programming on a child who isn't ready could cause all those problems too.
People don't ride bikes who have never ever seen one. They don't learn in
the dark without knowing what it looks like. Playing video games will give
him ideas about the range of options, and the tree diagram necessities. Each
time he comes to a "branch" where he makes a choice, the program had to allow
for either choice, and it has to go on to the next routine, and change the
score, etc.
<<Do you have
any sugestions on how to deprogram him of these ideas???>>
Work on deprogramming yourself first.
First place the mask over your own nose and mouth; then help your child.
Being somewhat a-twitch yourself about unschooling still, you're not ready to
advise him. The more you watch him without expectations and really truly
SEE what he is doing, not see what he's not doing (by holding the template of
learning up and squinting through it at him), the easier it will be for you
to see what he is doing. What he is doing is learning. What you are doing
is looking through a years-old filter.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
Sandra said:
The more you watch him without expectations and really truly
SEE what he is doing, not see what he's not doing (by holding the template
of
learning up and squinting through it at him), the easier it will be for you
My reply:
My Karma/guardian angels/adonai/higher power is really throwing alot of
great stuff in front of me. I need to tatoo the above on Emily's forehead.
(If I tattood it on mine, I wouldn't be able to see it!LOL)
Just started to read the "reading" section in How Children Learn. WOW! JUst
what I am needing! I really feel like, after almost 3 years of unschooling,
I am finally "getting it". and understanding deep down what the meaning of
unschooling is. and because I have this newly found philosophical/emotional
respect for Emily as a learning person AND I am communicating it to her, she
is taking off!
Thanks to all of you and especially Sandra (BTW, what Kingdom is Maryland
in?)
ElissaJill
The more you watch him without expectations and really truly
SEE what he is doing, not see what he's not doing (by holding the template
of
learning up and squinting through it at him), the easier it will be for you
My reply:
My Karma/guardian angels/adonai/higher power is really throwing alot of
great stuff in front of me. I need to tatoo the above on Emily's forehead.
(If I tattood it on mine, I wouldn't be able to see it!LOL)
Just started to read the "reading" section in How Children Learn. WOW! JUst
what I am needing! I really feel like, after almost 3 years of unschooling,
I am finally "getting it". and understanding deep down what the meaning of
unschooling is. and because I have this newly found philosophical/emotional
respect for Emily as a learning person AND I am communicating it to her, she
is taking off!
Thanks to all of you and especially Sandra (BTW, what Kingdom is Maryland
in?)
ElissaJill
Leslie
You can say that again!
Leslie, who really means it :~)
<< So should I just let him play them whenever he want??? In hope
that is a month or a year )HEHE) he will be tired of them??? >>
I would.
And I would buy them more games (tell us what system you have and we can make
recommendations) and I would DEFINITELY buy players' guides even if he can't
read them well yet--he will learn. And they have charts and maps. People
pay money for curricular materials to help kids learn to read charts and maps
and tables. Gamers learn them without even noticing.
What would be the advantage to you if your son got tired of video games?
(I don't need an answer; you do. A really thought out one.)
<,He claims he has to be a
certain age to do things like that. This is one of the negative
ideas put in his head from the public school systems!!! >>
He might be right. He might be saying "old enough" but what he probably
means is he doesn't have the understanding yet. Let it go until he knows he
DOES have it.
Pressing something too early (like reading) can cause a child to give up on
it forever, to develop an aversion, or to be destructive of books. Pressing
programming on a child who isn't ready could cause all those problems too.
People don't ride bikes who have never ever seen one. They don't learn in
the dark without knowing what it looks like. Playing video games will give
him ideas about the range of options, and the tree diagram necessities. Each
time he comes to a "branch" where he makes a choice, the program had to allow
for either choice, and it has to go on to the next routine, and change the
score, etc.
<<Do you have
any sugestions on how to deprogram him of these ideas???>>
Work on deprogramming yourself first.
First place the mask over your own nose and mouth; then help your child.
Being somewhat a-twitch yourself about unschooling still, you're not ready to
advise him. The more you watch him without expectations and really truly
SEE what he is doing, not see what he's not doing (by holding the template of
learning up and squinting through it at him), the easier it will be for you
to see what he is doing. What he is doing is learning. What you are doing
is looking through a years-old filter.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie, who really means it :~)
<< So should I just let him play them whenever he want??? In hope
that is a month or a year )HEHE) he will be tired of them??? >>
I would.
And I would buy them more games (tell us what system you have and we can make
recommendations) and I would DEFINITELY buy players' guides even if he can't
read them well yet--he will learn. And they have charts and maps. People
pay money for curricular materials to help kids learn to read charts and maps
and tables. Gamers learn them without even noticing.
What would be the advantage to you if your son got tired of video games?
(I don't need an answer; you do. A really thought out one.)
<,He claims he has to be a
certain age to do things like that. This is one of the negative
ideas put in his head from the public school systems!!! >>
He might be right. He might be saying "old enough" but what he probably
means is he doesn't have the understanding yet. Let it go until he knows he
DOES have it.
Pressing something too early (like reading) can cause a child to give up on
it forever, to develop an aversion, or to be destructive of books. Pressing
programming on a child who isn't ready could cause all those problems too.
People don't ride bikes who have never ever seen one. They don't learn in
the dark without knowing what it looks like. Playing video games will give
him ideas about the range of options, and the tree diagram necessities. Each
time he comes to a "branch" where he makes a choice, the program had to allow
for either choice, and it has to go on to the next routine, and change the
score, etc.
<<Do you have
any sugestions on how to deprogram him of these ideas???>>
Work on deprogramming yourself first.
First place the mask over your own nose and mouth; then help your child.
Being somewhat a-twitch yourself about unschooling still, you're not ready to
advise him. The more you watch him without expectations and really truly
SEE what he is doing, not see what he's not doing (by holding the template of
learning up and squinting through it at him), the easier it will be for you
to see what he is doing. What he is doing is learning. What you are doing
is looking through a years-old filter.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
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[email protected]
In a message dated 11/8/01 4:10:09 PM, ElissaJC@... writes:
<< Thanks to all of you and especially Sandra (BTW, what Kingdom is Maryland
in?) >>
You're welcome.
Atlantia. <g>
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< Thanks to all of you and especially Sandra (BTW, what Kingdom is Maryland
in?) >>
You're welcome.
Atlantia. <g>
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
--- I limit the video games...for he would sit in front of the T.V.
for 12 hours at a time (only to stop and go to the bathroom). He
would do this everyday. I don't know, I wanted him to get up and
move...go play. We have a nintendo 64, and yes he has some guides.
Usually ones that cover his favorite games. He doesn't have a
problem reading them...for he loves to read and is very good at it.
I'm not for sure about the "not being old enough" as "not being able
to understand." For I honestly think....HE thinks he has to wait to
do things because he is not an adult. It goes beyond just the video
games.
Yes and your right...I am a-twitch when it comes to unschooling...but
isn't that why I'm here???
I will keep your advice and take a further step back. Thank you
SHAWN
In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
for 12 hours at a time (only to stop and go to the bathroom). He
would do this everyday. I don't know, I wanted him to get up and
move...go play. We have a nintendo 64, and yes he has some guides.
Usually ones that cover his favorite games. He doesn't have a
problem reading them...for he loves to read and is very good at it.
I'm not for sure about the "not being old enough" as "not being able
to understand." For I honestly think....HE thinks he has to wait to
do things because he is not an adult. It goes beyond just the video
games.
Yes and your right...I am a-twitch when it comes to unschooling...but
isn't that why I'm here???
I will keep your advice and take a further step back. Thank you
SHAWN
In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>we can make
> In a message dated 11/8/01 2:30:57 PM, pepperberrys@y... writes:
>
> << So should I just let him play them whenever he want??? In hope
> that is a month or a year )HEHE) he will be tired of them??? >>
>
> I would.
> And I would buy them more games (tell us what system you have and
> recommendations) and I would DEFINITELY buy players' guides even ifhe can't
> read them well yet--he will learn. And they have charts and maps.People
> pay money for curricular materials to help kids learn to readcharts and maps
> and tables. Gamers learn them without even noticing.games?
>
> What would be the advantage to you if your son got tired of video
> (I don't need an answer; you do. A really thought out one.)probably
>
> <,He claims he has to be a
> certain age to do things like that. This is one of the negative
> ideas put in his head from the public school systems!!! >>
>
> He might be right. He might be saying "old enough" but what he
> means is he doesn't have the understanding yet. Let it go until heknows he
> DOES have it.give up on
>
> Pressing something too early (like reading) can cause a child to
> it forever, to develop an aversion, or to be destructive of books.Pressing
> programming on a child who isn't ready could cause all thoseproblems too.
>learn in
> People don't ride bikes who have never ever seen one. They don't
> the dark without knowing what it looks like. Playing video gameswill give
> him ideas about the range of options, and the tree diagramnecessities. Each
> time he comes to a "branch" where he makes a choice, the programhad to allow
> for either choice, and it has to go on to the next routine, andchange the
> score, etc.child.
>
> <<Do you have
> any sugestions on how to deprogram him of these ideas???>>
>
> Work on deprogramming yourself first.
>
> First place the mask over your own nose and mouth; then help your
>not ready to
> Being somewhat a-twitch yourself about unschooling still, you're
> advise him. The more you watch him without expectations andreally truly
> SEE what he is doing, not see what he's not doing (by holding thetemplate of
> learning up and squinting through it at him), the easier it will befor you
> to see what he is doing. What he is doing is learning. What youare doing
> is looking through a years-old filter.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> Sandra
>
> "Everything counts."
> http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
> http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Pam Hartley
----------
what's best for ourselves. But the person with the best guess is... him or
herself.
Pam
> I think its important to remember that as parents, weNobody *knows* what is best for anyone else. Sometimes, we don't even know
> *know* what is best for our individual children.
what's best for ourselves. But the person with the best guess is... him or
herself.
> There are some lessons that my children are not goingLike what?
> to learn on their own
Pam
Lynda
All kinds of things. Don't drink Clorox. Don't play on the freeway. Don't
suck on your fingers after you pick the pretty foxglove flowers. And the
list goes on and on and on.
There are lots of things that one is either taught or that one has learned
"the hard way" that one shares with one's children, family, friends,
whomever.
some things they need to learn on their own, there are some children who
only learn if they experience things.
the point was that ALL children are INDIVIDUALS and as such there is no
universal rule including let them make all the choices/decisions themselves.
Lynda
suck on your fingers after you pick the pretty foxglove flowers. And the
list goes on and on and on.
There are lots of things that one is either taught or that one has learned
"the hard way" that one shares with one's children, family, friends,
whomever.
some things they need to learn on their own, there are some children who
only learn if they experience things.
the point was that ALL children are INDIVIDUALS and as such there is no
universal rule including let them make all the choices/decisions themselves.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Pam Hartley <pamhartley@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 10:12 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Deschooling
> ----------
> > I think its important to remember that as parents, we
> > *know* what is best for our individual children.
>
> Nobody *knows* what is best for anyone else. Sometimes, we don't even know
> what's best for ourselves. But the person with the best guess is... him or
> herself.
>
> > There are some lessons that my children are not going
> > to learn on their own
>
> Like what?
>
> Pam
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Pam Hartley
----------
and way.
I have never told my children, "Don't drink Clorox", but they don't. I have
never told them not to play on the freeway, and we live very close to one,
but they don't do that either. If we lived someplace with foxgloves to pick,
I'd let them know why I wanted them to wash their hands afterward, but
that's a real-life, you-really-do-need-to-know-that-right-now thing, not a
"you'll need algebra in college" thing.
Pam
>From: [email protected]But this has nothing to do with allowing children to learn in their own time
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1580
>Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001, 8:01 PM
>
> All kinds of things. Don't drink Clorox. Don't play on the freeway. Don't
> suck on your fingers after you pick the pretty foxglove flowers. And the
> list goes on and on and on.
and way.
I have never told my children, "Don't drink Clorox", but they don't. I have
never told them not to play on the freeway, and we live very close to one,
but they don't do that either. If we lived someplace with foxgloves to pick,
I'd let them know why I wanted them to wash their hands afterward, but
that's a real-life, you-really-do-need-to-know-that-right-now thing, not a
"you'll need algebra in college" thing.
Pam
Pam Hartley
Somebody wrote:
"Scientists have discovered that saliva causes cancer. But only when
swallowed in small quantities, over long periods of time."
Pam
>>That is certainly true. But caffeine isn't good for us for a numberand Tia replied
>>of reasons. Infertility is only one of many examples.
>Did you ever hear the George Carlin skit where he says something like,
> There are about a million things that aren't good for us.
"Scientists have discovered that saliva causes cancer. But only when
swallowed in small quantities, over long periods of time."
Pam
Tia Leschke
>I haven't heard it, but it sounds almost plausible......<g>
>
>Did you ever hear the George Carlin skit where he says something like,
>"Scientists have discovered that saliva causes cancer. But only when
>swallowed in small quantities, over long periods of time."
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Gary & Lisa Williams
Thanks Betsy for your response! I am going to read up some on deschooling.
I have wanted to get The Teenage Liberation Handbook and so now I will. I
have never been the textbook type (except for the all-important math
<sarcastic tone>) but we have struggled with the "you HAVE to come and read
this book now or else". Even books that she probably would have liked had I
just let her pick them out on her own! She is a week away from 11 by the
way.
Well, I'm sure I'll be around some more!
Thanks again, Lisa
I have wanted to get The Teenage Liberation Handbook and so now I will. I
have never been the textbook type (except for the all-important math
<sarcastic tone>) but we have struggled with the "you HAVE to come and read
this book now or else". Even books that she probably would have liked had I
just let her pick them out on her own! She is a week away from 11 by the
way.
Well, I'm sure I'll be around some more!
Thanks again, Lisa
> From: Betsy <ecsamhill@...>California.)
> Subject: Re: Re: New to list
> **I am envious of the mom's that figured this stuff out in the
> beginning and don't have to "undo" anything. I wish she didn't know about
> other schooling methods.**
>
>
> Hi, Lisa --
>
> I'm not remembering how old your daughter is, but if she's 8 or older
> you could help her understand the drawbacks of mandatory school learning
> by reading her the fable that's at the beginning of the Teenage
> Liberation Handbook. (Maybe your library has it.) The story describes
> a girl who just wants to pick wild fruit and eat it, but instead, she's
> sent to some kind of school where to "prepare" her for learning, she has
> to eat big, unappetizing piles of cafeteria food as "eating practice".
> It's an interesting way to start a discussion about different styles of
> learning. It demonstrates vividly how trying to force learning can
> really kill the learning "appetite".
>
> A similar comparison is from Ivan Illych said a worksheet is like taking
> a vitamin C tablet, while learning from life is eating the whole orange.
> Which is healthier, more natural and more appetizing? (I'm
> paraphrasing and have a bad memory. If someone can quote more
> accurately that's great. I heard Pat Farenga quote this part in an
> audiotape from the Sacramento conference. He's speaking there about
> unschooling again this August. www.hsc.org , for people in or near
>
> Good luck! Your daughter should bounce back just fine, but you might
> want to search for information on "deschooling". Especially on the
> unschooling.com message boards.
>
>
> Betsy
Cherry Brewer
Lisa,
I recently got The Teenage Liberation Handbook from interlibrary loan and it is GREAT! It's just blown my mind with common sense things I've never thought of. I'm enjoying my deschooling experience!
Cherry, back into lurkdom!
I recently got The Teenage Liberation Handbook from interlibrary loan and it is GREAT! It's just blown my mind with common sense things I've never thought of. I'm enjoying my deschooling experience!
Cherry, back into lurkdom!
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary & Lisa Williams
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 7:27 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re:Deschooling
Thanks Betsy for your response! I am going to read up some on deschooling.
I have wanted to get The Teenage Liberation Handbook and so now I will. I
have never been the textbook type (except for the all-important math
<sarcastic tone>) but we have struggled with the "you HAVE to come and read
this book now or else". Even books that she probably would have liked had I
just let her pick them out on her own! She is a week away from 11 by the
way.
Well, I'm sure I'll be around some more!
Thanks again, Lisa
> From: Betsy <ecsamhill@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: New to list
> **I am envious of the mom's that figured this stuff out in the
> beginning and don't have to "undo" anything. I wish she didn't know about
> other schooling methods.**
>
>
> Hi, Lisa --
>
> I'm not remembering how old your daughter is, but if she's 8 or older
> you could help her understand the drawbacks of mandatory school learning
> by reading her the fable that's at the beginning of the Teenage
> Liberation Handbook. (Maybe your library has it.) The story describes
> a girl who just wants to pick wild fruit and eat it, but instead, she's
> sent to some kind of school where to "prepare" her for learning, she has
> to eat big, unappetizing piles of cafeteria food as "eating practice".
> It's an interesting way to start a discussion about different styles of
> learning. It demonstrates vividly how trying to force learning can
> really kill the learning "appetite".
>
> A similar comparison is from Ivan Illych said a worksheet is like taking
> a vitamin C tablet, while learning from life is eating the whole orange.
> Which is healthier, more natural and more appetizing? (I'm
> paraphrasing and have a bad memory. If someone can quote more
> accurately that's great. I heard Pat Farenga quote this part in an
> audiotape from the Sacramento conference. He's speaking there about
> unschooling again this August. www.hsc.org , for people in or near
California.)
>
> Good luck! Your daughter should bounce back just fine, but you might
> want to search for information on "deschooling". Especially on the
> unschooling.com message boards.
>
>
> Betsy
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